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View Full Version : Me 262 Guilt Trip???



XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 01:52 PM
It seems bizarre to me that we get so many so called Luftwhiners complaining about flight model when they have already a plane that outclasses the opposition if flown correctly in the form of the Me 262. Granted I do believe that some Bf 109's are vastly overmodelled in speed departments (which is a huge advantage faster than other russian propeller plane) and the FW 190 to be utterly under modelled however you will also find many VVS planes overmodelled in other area's like climb and turning circles and some are undermodelled in speed and the complex engine managment is just whack for them.
However with the forthcoming arrival of this appartent uber P-51 mustang will be finally fly the Me 262 in piece without being berated as cowards for flying it. Granted many servers don't like the plane beliving it makes the game unbalanced and therefore do not have it selectable. However the servers I do see giving access to which I occasionally join and fight always follow the same patern. You notice no one flys the plane first of all. I usually hope in and start racking up a few kills. Then you notice a few people try it out and of coruse there are many sorched engines on the runway as clearly they don't know how to fly it and control the engines properly. (the plane is difficult to learn to control at first and landing is very difficult also the stupid one eingine bug is annoying).Even if they do get it airborne they usually end turn fighting with it. The next thing that happens is I'm flooded with complaints saying how low I am to require such a plane to kill them ....etc. I have found several servers now that I join run maps that are identical in settings and planes to previous games i have joined with the same host but with suttle difference of no Me 262. Ask why is this they replie its too good which historically it was (not saying its invincible). I don't fly the plane all the time my preference is to the Bf 109 but with debates going over which planes of which nation where better like the Bf 109 to P-51 Mustang its seems irrelevant. Does this mean that we will not be allowed fly the He 162 or Me 163 on the majority of severs.

Fianlly I commend any VVS pilot or even access pilot that does not complain about the Me 262 in a sever and actually just gets on trying to knock it out of the sky. All the more rewarding for them if they do get it. I have no problem with the, picking me off as I land or take off and try and pick up speed. I feel there entitled to get the plane anyway they can. Anyone else have similar experience in it?

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 01:52 PM
It seems bizarre to me that we get so many so called Luftwhiners complaining about flight model when they have already a plane that outclasses the opposition if flown correctly in the form of the Me 262. Granted I do believe that some Bf 109's are vastly overmodelled in speed departments (which is a huge advantage faster than other russian propeller plane) and the FW 190 to be utterly under modelled however you will also find many VVS planes overmodelled in other area's like climb and turning circles and some are undermodelled in speed and the complex engine managment is just whack for them.
However with the forthcoming arrival of this appartent uber P-51 mustang will be finally fly the Me 262 in piece without being berated as cowards for flying it. Granted many servers don't like the plane beliving it makes the game unbalanced and therefore do not have it selectable. However the servers I do see giving access to which I occasionally join and fight always follow the same patern. You notice no one flys the plane first of all. I usually hope in and start racking up a few kills. Then you notice a few people try it out and of coruse there are many sorched engines on the runway as clearly they don't know how to fly it and control the engines properly. (the plane is difficult to learn to control at first and landing is very difficult also the stupid one eingine bug is annoying).Even if they do get it airborne they usually end turn fighting with it. The next thing that happens is I'm flooded with complaints saying how low I am to require such a plane to kill them ....etc. I have found several servers now that I join run maps that are identical in settings and planes to previous games i have joined with the same host but with suttle difference of no Me 262. Ask why is this they replie its too good which historically it was (not saying its invincible). I don't fly the plane all the time my preference is to the Bf 109 but with debates going over which planes of which nation where better like the Bf 109 to P-51 Mustang its seems irrelevant. Does this mean that we will not be allowed fly the He 162 or Me 163 on the majority of severs.

Fianlly I commend any VVS pilot or even access pilot that does not complain about the Me 262 in a sever and actually just gets on trying to knock it out of the sky. All the more rewarding for them if they do get it. I have no problem with the, picking me off as I land or take off and try and pick up speed. I feel there entitled to get the plane anyway they can. Anyone else have similar experience in it?

Zayets
07-02-2003, 01:58 PM
But is pretty easy to shoot down a Me262 , at least offline. a single scratch on those fans and the engine is in fire! I open fire anywhere between .8-.1 with my Jug when following a Me262 coz I know that in the end of the day one of my bullets will hit an engine. This must be really frustrating for Me262 pilots. Just my 0.02 euros
Zayets out

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XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 02:19 PM
It seems to me that some people just want to fly piston-engine fighters against other piston-engine fighters, and I don't really see anything really wrong with that.

Don't judge the 262's performance by the AI. A well flown 262 can dominate a server like no other fighter can. Conventional wisdom on this forum before the release of the 262 was that it would be destroyed on take-off and landing, that it wouldn't be able to hit an evasive prop-driven fighter, etc.,etc., but now conventioinal wisdom is to simply ban it for being too good.

And if you think the 262 is a pain, wait till the faster and more nimble He-162 shows up/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif





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"We are now in a position of inferiority...There is no doubt in my mind, nor in the minds of my fighter pilots, that the FW190 is the best all-round fighter in the world today."

Sholto Douglas, 17 July 1942

====================================
"I hit you so hard there would be tiny little ME-109's flying in circles around your head" - USAFHelos
====================================

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 02:22 PM
My experience of Hosting a server Game that allows the 262 on the German Side only, is that the experienced VVS pilots that enter fly Luftwaffe, or leave the server all together.

Ive been vulched succesfully by a VVS pilot on only one occasion taking off in the 262 , but only because I was too lazy to keep my situational awareness up that night.

Never been shot down in air combat in the 262 by a VVS prop plane, mainly because if you really know how to fly the jet its unbeatable, once your up to speed .
The enemy can get no where near you, while you can repeatedly attack them.
Ergo read my first paragraph again.

S!

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 02:30 PM
Er du fra Stavanger eller?

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 02:54 PM
Yes your points about the plane being easy to knock down is through its a very fraigle plane particularly the engines and the acceleration is particularly slow. The engines can by set alight with the weakest of machine gun calibre....which is why its frustrating that many vvs pilots are more concerned about complaing about that shooting it down. At first in real life the Mustang piltos where awed by it but gradually they came up with more effective to counter it. I haev been shoot down many several times in it some from spray and pray engine shots other times be being either caught unaware or being taken down while engaging another plane. Frustrating yes but understandable more frustrating for the vvs when they see the ting just disappear into the distance. I just wish there was more of effort to actually fly the plane in a group than singly as it would dominate with out question and the VVS to come with tactics to knock out of the sky after all there plane can still turn and role better. Combined with better acceleration and the ease to knock out an engine its not as totally hopeless as it seems. I have knocked down many 262's but by and large they where not flown very well. It is though extremely rewarding to knock them out of the sky.

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 03:20 PM
How about some 262 tag? One guy flies the 262 against everyone else on the server. They should be flying manueverable planes like the Brewster and staying together. Whoever gets credit for shooting down the 262 gets to fly it next.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


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Message Edited on 07/02/0307:22AM by Bun-Bun1953

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 03:35 PM
I don't fly the 262 is just for that reason, I feel bad killing all those prop planes in that bird. K-4 is labeled a prop plane (Well it is /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif ) and isn't frowned upon and I like it. But if I see a 262 tearing my friends up and is experienced or just down right annying me, then I hop into one as well.

Love that bird

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 04:33 PM
Yes you feel bad about shooting people down in it...maybe the others have a right to complain as it does make the game unbalanced but the advantage is historically accurate. I guess feeling bad about taking advantage of the 262 allows us to only fly it in low numbers thus simulating the real life shortages of its combat career. I like the idea of the Me 262 tag mentioned above http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif although feeling bad about it won't stop me flying it. Kinda pay back for the vvs advantage in the original IL2. i was singing and prasing the 262 long before it was flyable

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 04:52 PM
I allow the Me 262 in all my late war DF maps, but I don't normally fly it. Most other players don't either. The plane is simply too good and sucks all the fun out. Me 262's are killible, but you have to be higher and be a decent shot. As for vulching them, I see it fairly often. I fly the P-47 a fair amount and my standard fighting method is hit and run raids on the enemy bases. If someone is using an Me 262, I'll get him eventually. Sometimes more than once /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif .

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As we all know, the Soviet Union had too many fighter pilots during WW2. So Stalin's scientists came up with a brillient way to solve this problem. They would make some of their pilots fly British made Hurricanes. The Hurricane was an uber flying coffin. It was designed to maximize pilot kills by providing nothing but fabric and a few wooden spars around the cockpit. This setup prevented the pilot from escaping easily while at the same time not interfering with enemy bullets and shrapnel trying to pass through it. The rest of the Hurricanes structure was designed to ricochet bullets and shrapnel into the cockpit. And thanks to the cockpits superb design, all of them would pass through the cockpit and the pilot inside with little difficulty. Of course the Hurricane's designers didn't stop there. In order for the Hurricane to become a flying coffin, they had to make it easy to shoot. They did this by making the Hurricane the slowest monoplane fighter in use at the time and even gave it a very bulky shape so that it would be easy to spot and hit. The final feature of the Hurricane was its ability to bury or cremate itself. And because it was made of biodegradable materials, the Hurricane was environmentally friendly after it buried itself. Because of these brillient features, the Hurricane was a perfect flying coffin and helped the Soviets solve the pilot surplus they were suffering.
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XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 05:21 PM
Going from one end of the spectrum to the other. Your a brave man if your normal aircraft of choice is a P-47. Along with the P-40 I can see no reason why anyone feels those planes. Baring ground attack and bomber attacjs the P-47 is utterly hopeless. Granted its well armoured buts its just abismal in any other area of flight it makes the Fw 190 look like and I-153 on steroids . Your a brave man. I can safely say the P-40 and P-47 are the only aircraft never to shoot me down even when I'm on the ground. I find its very rarely flown as well and for good reason.

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 05:27 PM
Key in the 262 is:

1. Stay Fast (550kph MINIMUM)
2. Fly High
3. For the love of God do NOT turn /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Problem is successfully hitting an opponent in an enemy icon environment is impossible if they are paying attention and you are following the above guidelines.

Only way I can get kills in this thing is pure surprise.

One HUGE issue with the 262 is the lack of inertia and it's ability to resist the earths gravity. When I lose an engine even in a 90 degree dive my plane won't go past 250-300 kph. This prevents me from enjoying the 262 fully, because you have no chance of nursing 262 with one egine flamedout or damaged back to RTB.

IMO getting a damaged plane home is as rewarding as a kill /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Roy Baty
III/7/JG2

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Message Edited on 07/02/0312:33PM by roybaty

ZG77_Nagual
07-02-2003, 05:28 PM
I haven't flown the '47 much on line - but on my server, which is currently set to '42 - I've racked up alot of kills in the p40 - it turns on a dime and is an excellent gun platform. The .50s seem to do the job quite well and I've shot down numbers of 109s, yaks, la5s, 190s with it. It's a quite formicable turnfighter. the problem is that it's significant diving abilities are not rightly modeled.
The 262 does absolutley dominate if flown well. I have managed to shoot one down with a p39 after he zoomed me I managed to get a bead and clip him with the 37 when he was about .4k out.

http://pws.chartermi.net/~cmorey/pics/p47janes.jpg