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AndylBooth1961
01-17-2006, 05:02 AM
I know this is not realistic, but I am having a devil identifying enemy from friendly.
Can you padlock a plane, then press an exernal view to see a close up external of the padlocked plane?
If so what is the right key?
thanks

AndylBooth1961
01-17-2006, 05:02 AM
I know this is not realistic, but I am having a devil identifying enemy from friendly.
Can you padlock a plane, then press an exernal view to see a close up external of the padlocked plane?
If so what is the right key?
thanks

F19_Ob
01-17-2006, 05:22 AM
Yes identification is a problem.
The scale between planes is correct but most of us have monitors that are far too small. This also means that the planes we see are quite a lot smaller than in real life, and that is the reason for enabling icons to aid identification.

Some "full real" servers online have no icons, wich puts bombers and poor performing planes in a grave disadvantage because at the time they can identify the foe it's too late.
This causes the players on boths sides to choose the best plane available and the server may become full of only two types flying although there is lots of planes to choose from.

There are padlock functions but I have never used them so I can't help u with that.

nakamura_kenji
01-17-2006, 05:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Some "full real" servers online have no icons, wich puts bombers and poor performing planes in a grave disadvantage because at the time they can identify the foe it's too late. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i all plane treat enemy till marking be see enemy i fire friend no.

much help learn what plane look distance f4f/a6m look much different a6m see much longer, wide span wing compare fat short f4f

Ramjager
01-17-2006, 05:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AndylBooth1961:

Can you padlock a plane, then press an exernal view to see a close up external of the padlocked plane?
If so what is the right key?
thanks </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

F6.
Delete

AndylBooth1961
01-17-2006, 05:53 AM
OK thanks for that, will try that combo.

Petey78
01-17-2006, 09:51 AM
I fly a lot of bombers on no-icon servers and to be perfectly honest I stick to what the RL guys did, close formation flying and relying on my gunners, that way it's not so critical whether you can identify the enemy fighter or not, the combined weight of fire from four or five B25 gunners all at once is normally enough to hold him off until my escorts come diving in!

MLudner
01-17-2006, 10:21 AM
I was having much difficulty with this last Saturday of Warclouds. IRL I can identify WWII aircraft over a mile out, but on computer screens I can have trouble at a few hundred meters. I never even fired a shot, found myself chasing friendlies, then evading friendlies flying behind me. I find aircraft labels vital in game as without them I am hapless.

Low_Flyer_MkII
01-17-2006, 11:07 AM
Icons are a total immersion killer for me.

MLudner
01-17-2006, 11:12 AM
I can sympathize. They are unrealistic and early-on I tried flying without them, but it wasn't working for the above stated reasons. Until graphics can display an aircraft as distinctly as they appear IRL I'll have to use them so that I can ID threat or friendly aircraft far enough out to respond before it's too late.

russ.nl
01-17-2006, 11:13 AM
After a while you will recognise the shape of an aircraft. Though this doens't work for all ac.

danjama
01-17-2006, 01:38 PM
The only planes i have trouble with is the Dora and La7. I only found this out last night, but the shape of the fuselage and nose is really similar on these two. I shot down my friend in his server thinking he was the enemy in La7 but it was him in his Dora. I guess it was the fog of war an all that....they do look similar somehow though!

All other planes are easily distinguishable imo

Holycannoli
01-17-2006, 03:59 PM
I have that problem too MLudner. I upgraded my old 17 inch monitor to a 21 inch and it definitely helps, but not enough.

I do think icons make for a more realistic experience. Sure, in real life you wouldn't see an icon floating above a plane. But in real life we'd be able to see and indentify these planes at much greater distances too.

I choose realistic information over realistic graphics.

Now the problem is finding servers that have full real settings EXCEPT for icons.

ZK-DABLIN
01-17-2006, 11:55 PM
I found warclouds is quite fair in this manner.

They do use icons but only at a close distance, which still means you will have to provide some effort toward checking the air space.

Also, the enemy icons only display the plane type which is alot better then just someones nick name as it immediately allows you to choose your approach to the situation. Different planes usually require different tactics, to take out.

The quicker you know the full picture the better.

rnzoli
01-18-2006, 02:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Holycannoli:
I do think icons make for a more realistic experience. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You is wrong about this one. You probably heard about enemy planes forming up in flight accidentally, as well as shooting allies due to failed IDing in real life. Nothing like this can happen with any kind of icons displayed.

I totally agree though, IDing is difficult, so if icons are more fun for you guys, please use that useful aid to your benefit.

MLudner
01-18-2006, 10:01 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ZK-DABLIN:
I found warclouds is quite fair in this manner.

They do use icons but only at a close distance, which still means you will have to provide some effort toward checking the air space.

Also, the enemy icons only display the plane type which is alot better then just someones nick name as it immediately allows you to choose your approach to the situation. Different planes usually require different tactics, to take out.

The quicker you know the full picture the better. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I wasn't trying to say they were unfair. You are right; they do use labels but they are a uniform black and only for AI will it say "Spitfire" or whatever the case may be. Players just have their tag and often I do not know just who is on what side. On my first run I was chasing several planes flying together until I realized they were friendlies, then I thought I work with them. Then I saw another aircraft pull in behind me and I could not ID the type, nor what team the player was on. So, I broke. (I later learned that guy had been a Blue player as well) This caused me to lose the three I was trying to fly with. I was then climbing back up to altitude, watching the airspace around me as best I could, in particular a large knot of aircraft to the west when I was attacked from behind and lost my elevators controls. I tried to evade, but it was pretty hopeless without elevators. It was just chaos up there for me. Warclouds probably isn't the server for me at this stage.

It's all right, because I'm still new to the on-line environment and I don't expect much just yet because I'm still exploring it. But, those labels are important to me. It could be my graphics card isn't up to snuff (NVIDIA GeForce 5200).

rnzoli
01-19-2006, 04:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MLudner:
Warclouds probably isn't the server for me at this stage. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Try smaller servers without icons, it is way better to keep your SA and learn along the way about visual and non-visual IDing clues.


(My little FR DS allows max 7 slots, pressing S will show at a single glance, who is in the air in what crate, skin download is disabled (color of aircraft helps IDing) etc. In HL you may occasionally find it under the name 'full_difficulty', usually looks empty from HL side, but since it is registered on UBI.com as well, there may be players anyway in the game, so worth to pop in and check.)

MLudner
01-19-2006, 09:39 AM
Well, I've been playing the game for a long time; I'm only new to the on-line part. My IDing skills are about as good as they're going to get at this stage. I also still have a hard time judging distances on screen. No problem there IRL, but on-screen it is.

There are some people who can fly a real aircraft easily and very proficiently, but svck in a simulator. There are others who couldn't fly a real aircraft if their lives depended on it, but are brilliant in a simulator.

I'm closer to the former than the latter. When I was in flight school (I was unable to finish; it's a long story but I did not wash-out) my instructor used to say I flew like I had never done anything else. I hovered in 10 flight hours, which is good considering it takes most people 20+. I think it's the lack of physical input and the non-threedimensional environment. In a real aircraft you can feel in your whole body what's going on. Your hand on the cyclic and from the seat of your pants you can feel the wind, but in a sim I have to see the nose move, then correct.

rnzoli
01-19-2006, 09:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MLudner:
I think it's the lack of physical input and the non-threedimensional environment. In a real aircraft you can feel in your whole body what's going on. Your hand on the cyclic and from the seat of your pants you can feel the wind, but in a sim I have to see the nose move, then correct. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Couldn't agree more with you. We have polls about what new features we want with our next game versions, but this important fundamental limitation is never addressed. Maybe it's too big technical challenge, maybe too few interested in this path, dunno. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

MLudner
01-19-2006, 09:57 AM
It would be extremely expensive to reproduce the physical aspects. You could probably buy a Mercedes-Benz for less than a rig like that would cost.

Graphics wise things are getting better. It will take some time, though, for programming to get that far. In CFS 2 I never managed to land on a carrier, but in PF due to the better graphics, I accomplish this regularly with almost no problems.

dieg777
01-19-2006, 12:33 PM
MLunder- I also got caught out with ID until I worked out that On warclouds the icons give plane type for enemy -some planes just have plane e.g. "spit" and others have seriel e.g. "spit RS-A"

Friends have call sign- there is no AI. A good tip is to press S while on the ground - this displays a list of players and their planes and tags-and check the opposite side names and planes- you cant remember them all but will help to stop shooting at friends-

I am also pretty new to online flying and still have a lot of trouble spotting planes low down near the ground- Iv lost count of the number of times Iv dived down and it just disappears http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif.

I find that my situational awareness is helped when I get on comms - the more experienced guys spot things a lot quicker and give you a shout if your in trouble.

the last tip is to spend time on the map screen , read the brief and write down where friendly and ememy bases are and where targets are, you can then work out pretty good if planes are friendly by the flight directions.

hope this helps you


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MLudner:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ZK-DABLIN:
I found warclouds is quite fair in this manner.

They do use icons but only at a close distance, which still means you will have to provide some effort toward checking the air space.

Also, the enemy icons only display the plane type which is alot better then just someones nick name as it immediately allows you to choose your approach to the situation. Different planes usually require different tactics, to take out.

The quicker you know the full picture the better. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I wasn't trying to say they were unfair. You are right; they do use labels but they are a uniform black and only for AI will it say "Spitfire" or whatever the case may be. Players just have their tag and often I do not know just who is on what side. On my first run I was chasing several planes flying together until I realized they were friendlies, then I thought I work with them. Then I saw another aircraft pull in behind me and I could not ID the type, nor what team the player was on. So, I broke. (I later learned that guy had been a Blue player as well) This caused me to lose the three I was trying to fly with. I was then climbing back up to altitude, watching the airspace around me as best I could, in particular a large knot of aircraft to the west when I was attacked from behind and lost my elevators controls. I tried to evade, but it was pretty hopeless without elevators. It was just chaos up there for me. Warclouds probably isn't the server for me at this stage.

It's all right, because I'm still new to the on-line environment and I don't expect much just yet because I'm still exploring it. But, those labels are important to me. It could be my graphics card isn't up to snuff (NVIDIA GeForce 5200). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Kuna15
01-19-2006, 12:56 PM
I can't say that I have much problems with distinguishing enemy from friendlies. Of course I can't recognize a dot in the sky but eventually when closer I can recognize it.
And of course it is always good to recognize markings first on unknown plane (just in case http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif).

Now if players fly in historically realistic ww2 formations there will be easy just as with icons on to recognize enemy planes.

I think we aren't going to have such big problems with recognizing planes in OM's BoB. I mean 50 Ju-87 and 25 Bf-109E above and behind them even far away wont leave any doubt who they are among scrambling 10-15 Hurricane formation http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif.

triad773
01-19-2006, 01:19 PM
I also am a relative newbie to online play despite being into sims for years, and this one for over a year, but I haven't found identification of enemy/friendly much of an issue YET: guess I should qualify that by saying I haven't shot at any friendlies up to now. I played with icons on up until a few weeks ago, and decided to take the leap when I realized a number of online rooms just didn't have them. So I'd toggle back and fourth between F6 and F1; tried to keep a sharp lookout. Pumped some lead into a few planes, but more often was on the recieving end http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif!

Still I agree that sans-icons increases one's sense of immersion. So I'd have to say although I just have a 17" LCD monitor, I am going to try it that way, at least on line. I really got to work on my sense of distance when shooting though, so flying off line with icons will be great for that kinda practice.

Cheers-

Triad