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View Full Version : Tempest Flyable? JU-88? What's going on?



JG27_Droz
06-16-2005, 03:08 PM
I thought these were going to be flyable?

Were we led to believe something false? I'm confused.

Tooz_69GIAP
06-16-2005, 03:10 PM
nothing was promised, so no, we were not led to believe anything. You believed on your own volition.

snafu73
06-16-2005, 03:55 PM
It's a case of mind over matter, if you dont mind them not being in the addon/patch then it does'nt matter!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Troll2k
06-16-2005, 04:22 PM
Listening to too much water cooler gossip.

GonzoX
06-16-2005, 05:32 PM
Yep,
Don't let all those tempting screen shots and development update web page postings put you in a state of futurethought fantasy.

EiZ0N
06-16-2005, 06:01 PM
Grr!

We aren't stupid!!

It's fine if they didn't have time or whatever to add it in the end, I can accept that. I can accept that they failed to meet one of their goals.

But this nonsense about "it was never promised, you imagined it!" is outrageous.

The Tempest WAS supposed to be flyable. But to have people say "you made it up in your head" is very very annoying.

R_Mutt
06-16-2005, 06:11 PM
Originally posted by EiZ0N:
Grr!

We aren't stupid!!

It's fine if they didn't have time or whatever to add it in the end, I can accept that. I can accept that they failed to meet one of their goals.

But this nonsense about "it was never promised, you imagined it!" is outrageous.

The Tempest WAS supposed to be flyable. But to have people say "you made it up in your head" is very very annoying.

who's we?

Tooz_69GIAP
06-16-2005, 06:14 PM
No, it WASN'T supposed to be flyable.

There was a post by Oleg which gave details of what they were working on. It listed a number of aircraft that they were hoping to get into the game. The DID NOT say that they would ABSOLUTELY 100% BE IN THE PATCH.

However, I believe that they will eventually get into the game, but probably as part of a paid for add on.

Don't get me wrong, I am not happy about not having these in the game yet. The Mossie is pretty much my favourite aircraft of all time, so I want it in game as much as anyone.

But what is "outrageous" are all these posts demanding content that was never promised, and you also have to consider the amount of time and resources required to get all this stuff into the game FREE OF CHARGE!!!!!

Rumour has it that 1C have actually halted development on BoB (may or may not be true, I dunno) in order to get the Ju-88, Mossie, Tempest, Italian aircraft, Pe-2/3, and whatever else in to the game, as well as all that stuff that is apparently going into the Russian add-on (jet-prop experimental hybrids, new maps, etc).

The Ju-88 apparently had to have quite a bit of work done on it to get it into the game, and 1C are currently working to create the internals for all of the Pe-2 and Pe-3 variants currently in the game. That is a HELLUVA LOTTA WORK!!!!!!

All I can say, is thank you for the efforts 1C!!

J_Weaver
06-16-2005, 06:27 PM
I know I was disappointed to find the lack of a JU88 and Mossie in the patch. I too thought that we we're going to get them. There was even a poll on the main page that asked which plane we were look for to most in the "up comming" patch. As I remember the Mossie and JU88 were on the list.

After seeing the beautiful ai Tempest I can only hope that it will become flyable someday.

EnGaurde
06-16-2005, 07:56 PM
catch-22.

didnt release the patch and included said planes, ****ed for taking too long.

didnt include planes and get FM beta out, ****ed for not including planes.

hows that song go? Cant please everyone...

i'd actually like to see a payware add-on released. Ill give em cash for any content they want to sell, i like freeware just as much as anyone, but i do understand they need to be paid.

Shrap
06-16-2005, 08:15 PM
Yeah your lucky to get a patch that fixes bugs for most games.

jarink
06-16-2005, 10:13 PM
Originally posted by J_Weaver:
After seeing the beautiful ai Tempest I can only hope that it will become flyable someday.

I'll second that motion! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

sapre
06-16-2005, 10:29 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/63110913/m/8471088572
New planes (or cockpits to make flyable)

Ki-100-I Ko (flyable. ready)

G4M1 (flyable. ready)

MC-200 (waiting from third party to put in engine and program)

MC-202 (almost done in 3D engine)

MC-205 (waiting...)

Re-2000 (waiting...)

Re-2001 (waiting...)

Cr-32 (possibly AI)

Mosquito B.Mk.IV (currently AI)

Mosquito FB.Mk.VI (flyable)

Do-335 (working with the own external model)

Fokker D-XXI (AI)

Tempest Mk.V (AI, waiting for a cockpit)

Spitfire Mk.XIV (waiting for a cockpit)

Avia B-534 (AI)

CW-21 (need to be finsihed).

Fiat G-55 (waiting for a cockpit input)

J2M3 (ready cockpit)

B6N2 (ready external model in 3D engine, third party working over cockpits)

Pe-2 (currently on a CD only for Russian market. I'm sorry for this)

Ju-88A-4 (cockpit and the plane. Sorry need more rework. We started it finally ourselves)
------------------------------------------------

It doesn't say anywhere that Tempest and Ju-88 or Mosquito is going to be flyable in the NEXT patch.
It simple says its being worked on.
I assume we will see these plane in either next patch or some new paid addon.

EJGrOst_Caspar
06-17-2005, 01:32 AM
I will correct that list a bit, as far as I know (I give no garanties, that I am 100% right):


Ki-100-I Ko (flyable. ready) <span class="ev_code_GREEN">In game! Horray!</span>

G4M1 (flyable. ready) <span class="ev_code_GREEN">In game! Horray!</span>

MC-200 (waiting from third party to put in engine and program) <span class="ev_code_GREEN">Cockpit and extern models are at 1C</span>

MC-202 (almost done in 3D engine) <span class="ev_code_GREEN">Cockpit and extern models are at 1C. I've seen test pics of the cockpit in engine.</span>

MC-205 (waiting...) <span class="ev_code_GREEN">Cockpit and extern models are at 1C. I've seen test pics of the cockpit in engine.</span>

Re-2000 (waiting...) <span class="ev_code_GREEN">Extern model is at 1C. There will be no cockpit. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif</span>

Re-2001 (waiting...) <span class="ev_code_GREEN">MAYBE the extern model is finally at 1C. (but I doubt it) There will be no cockpit. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif</span>

Cr-32 (possibly AI)

Mosquito B.Mk.IV (currently AI)

Mosquito FB.Mk.VI (flyable)

Do-335 (working with the own external model)

Fokker D-XXI (AI)

Tempest Mk.V (AI, waiting for a cockpit)

Spitfire Mk.XIV (waiting for a cockpit)

Avia B-534 (AI)

CW-21 (need to be finsihed).

Fiat G-55 (waiting for a cockpit input) <span class="ev_code_GREEN">There will be no cockpit. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif</span>

J2M3 (ready cockpit)

B6N2 (ready external model in 3D engine, third party working over cockpits)

Pe-2 (currently on a CD only for Russian market. I'm sorry for this)

Ju-88A-4 (cockpit and the plane. Sorry need more rework. We started it finally ourselves)



.

actionhank1786
06-17-2005, 01:58 AM
like it's been said, until Oleg says that a plane will be in game, it's all just here-say.
Also remember he can't keep working on this game, as much as we'd all love it, he's gotta move on with the times, and onto Battle of Britain.
We can all hope for however, all the beautiful planes that aren't in game now, being created from scratch to Battle of Britain standards, which equals **** nice!

Anyone got a picture of that Spitfire (or was it hurricane...maybe it was a 109...) model that showed how they built the internals of the plane.
BOB is going to be awesome

CHDT
06-17-2005, 02:09 AM
Status of the Tempest cockpit three months ago:

http://img296.echo.cx/img296/9830/985ma.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)


It looks to me that all this work is logically done to make the aircraft flyable.

But if the Tempest is in the end not flyable, it would be the biggest waste of all the IL-FB-PF line.

new-fherathras
06-17-2005, 02:26 AM
Originally posted by CHDT:
Status of the Tempest cockpit three months ago:



It looks to me that all this work is logically done to make the aircraft flyable.
line.



you forget about, flight model, damage model and animations.

it has been stated that these things take up almost 70% of plane development

HoneySeeker
06-17-2005, 02:38 AM
Grr!

We aren't stupid!!

It's fine if they didn't have time or whatever to add it in the end, I can accept that. I can accept that they failed to meet one of their goals.

But this nonsense about "it was never promised, you imagined it!" is outrageous.

The Tempest WAS supposed to be flyable. But to have people say "you made it up in your head" is very very annoying.
So people invent rubbish and then get upset when the rubbish they invent turns out to be - well - rubbish?

VW-IceFire
06-17-2005, 07:34 AM
Originally posted by EiZ0N:
Grr!

We aren't stupid!!

It's fine if they didn't have time or whatever to add it in the end, I can accept that. I can accept that they failed to meet one of their goals.

But this nonsense about "it was never promised, you imagined it!" is outrageous.

The Tempest WAS supposed to be flyable. But to have people say "you made it up in your head" is very very annoying.
I'm the biggest fantatic of the Tempest fantatics (or I try to be http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif) and I was never counting on it to be flyable. Infact my hope faded in the last two months as we heard more and more about what would be in the patch.

As it is, the Tempest is currently an inaccurate and not well represented AI model anyways...it needs work and time and it seems that neither is available. So...we don't have it.

Too much hype and too many people assuming a "maybe" means "yes".

SaQSoN
06-17-2005, 08:15 AM
The Tempest WAS supposed to be flyable.
The question is WHO supposed it? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

p1ngu666
06-17-2005, 10:59 AM
wasnt tempest listed as flyable in aep?
cant remmber tho :\

jarink
06-17-2005, 11:30 AM
Originally posted by new-fherathras:
you forget about, flight model, damage model and animations.

it has been stated that these things take up almost 70% of plane development

With the Tempest now in-game as AI-only, the flight model and damage model would have to be finished. Seems to me the only thing left would be cockpit animations. Maybe we'll get it flyable soon.

Fingers crossed!

SaQSoN
06-17-2005, 12:51 PM
Seems to me the only thing left would be cockpit animations. Maybe we'll get it flyable soon.
The final cockpit model hasn't been supplied to the 1C yet...

RiesenSchnauzer
06-17-2005, 02:08 PM
Whoever is making the cockpit needs to make himself known. I bet people would be willing to donate to get the Tempest flyable in the game. There was a group that was going to donate some pretty hefty sums to get an F4U-4 earlier this year until the licensing issue interfered.

PlaneEater
06-17-2005, 03:19 PM
SaQSoN, Alex Voicu has taken his **** sweet time with the Tempest cockpit. I would recommend someone from Oleg's team or your own email or call him and tell him to either **** or get off the toilet.

EJGrOst_Caspar
06-17-2005, 03:20 PM
Its in the making since ages now. I wonder, why it takes so long, SaQSon...

RiesenSchnauzer
06-17-2005, 03:25 PM
Well let's assume alex voicu is really busy and doesn't have the time to finish the cockpit unless he has maybe a little financial incentive to do so. I have a feeling that people would be willing to donate at least a little money to see this project through. I know for the F4U-4 there were a handful of people willing to donate over $100 each.

A.K.Davis
06-17-2005, 03:27 PM
Don't donate money for 3rd-party models. They are likely to go the way of Gibbage's work.

Airmail109
06-17-2005, 03:33 PM
whats wrong with gibbages work i see nothing wrong with gibbages work! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

jagdmailer
06-17-2005, 03:35 PM
I gave $20 to Gibbage for the Do 335 flyable. Not sure where this is at but it appears we will get it anyhow.

Now, I would be willing to give $ 20 for a flyable Me 210C/410 series!

Jagd

RiesenSchnauzer
06-17-2005, 03:40 PM
Well the deal with the F4U-4 was that the money would be put in a pot and if the plane actually appeared in the game as a flyable the person who made it would get that money. If it wasn't made then the money was going to be donated to il2skins I believe. It definitely wasn't a pay first and hope type situation.

Without any official information on where things are at in terms of development though it is hard to set anything like this up. I am just suggesting that the person who makes the Tempest flyable in the game could probably get a little financial bonus out of it because of the huge demand for it.

SaQSoN
06-17-2005, 05:46 PM
Its in the making since ages now. I wonder, why it takes so long, SaQSon

Ask it's modeller. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I guess, he has his own reasons. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

PlaneEater, this is not a commercial model, it's author wasn't ordered to do it, neither he is promissed to be paid. So, it's completely up to him, and only he decides, whether to finish it and send to Oleg or not. Neither I or anyone else can't force him to work faster in this situation.

As for the Do-335, it's cockpit was modelled completely for free by enthusiast modeller (Clemens Hahne) and it's external is being developed within the 1C. So, with all respect to Gibbage, he doesn't have anything to do with this particular model.

PS. There hardly will appear any more new planes in the game, except those, shown in the dev.updates and those, sheduled for the commercial addons, like the Pe-2, etc. So, I wouldn't hope for something like flyable Me-210 or alike.

A.K.Davis
06-17-2005, 05:47 PM
Originally posted by Aimail101:
whats wrong with gibbages work i see nothing wrong with gibbages work! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

There's nothing wrong with it. It's just not going to be in this sim (Catalina). I hope SaQSoN is right about progress on Do-335.

p1ngu666
06-17-2005, 07:19 PM
saqson, maybe u could do some investigative prodding or prod someone else to find out whats going on http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

you probably dont understand the passion some of us have for the tempest, personaly its something you haveto see in the flesh. pictures dont convey it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

if u have time check out the 22 page thread on the tempest in olegs room, others and myself have posted some nice bits http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

A.K.Davis
06-17-2005, 08:05 PM
you probably dont understand the passion some of us have for the tempest, personaly its something you haveto see in the flesh. pictures dont convey it

You know, I've read this several times and it just keeps getting more disgusting.

LEXX_Luthor
06-17-2005, 10:01 PM
SaQsoN, just in case Oleg goes 1950s ... this is neat..

Early (first) Su-17 cockpit photos ~~> http://prototypes.free.fr/t6/t6-1.htm

Panel http://prototypes.free.fr/t6/image/su17-6-b.jpg
Left http://prototypes.free.fr/t6/image/su17-7-b.jpg
Right http://prototypes.free.fr/t6/image/su17-8-b.jpg

No...I "forgot" http://www.boardy.de/images/smilies/kopfpatsch.gif this one never flew. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

waffen-79
06-18-2005, 01:07 AM
I would gladly pay 45+ USD for AEP 2 5.xxx???

Including these Flyable A/C

Ar-234 PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
D0-335
JU-88
ME-410
TEMPEST
dehavilland MOSQUITO
P-59

Heck I would pay 50 usd, hey C1, Oleg I see some oportunity here

er...backme up guys ;P

SaQSoN
06-18-2005, 01:18 AM
you probably dont understand the passion some of us have for the tempest, personaly its something you haveto see in the flesh. pictures dont convey it
I understand it. But how does my unerstanding affect the situation? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Besides, should I be Oleg and would have a spare resources, I'd rather direct them on something more usefull, like, say, flyable Hs129, or IL-4, or SB, or flyable transport planes (ever heard of the ADW on-line project?).
But, I am not Oleg and he doesn't have the spare resources. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

p1ngu666
06-18-2005, 10:29 AM
but if you didnt finish off the mostly finished tempest, then us tempest fans would send icefire after u http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

LEXX_Luthor
06-18-2005, 05:25 PM
SaQs::
Besides, should I be Oleg and would have a spare resources, I'd rather direct them on something more usefull, like, say, flyable Hs129, or IL-4, or <span class="ev_code_yellow">SB</span>, or flyable transport planes (ever heard of the ADW on-line project?).
But, I am not Oleg and he doesn't have the spare resources. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

deathping---
06-18-2005, 07:39 PM
Originally posted by waffen-79:
I would gladly pay 45+ USD for AEP 2 5.xxx???

Including these Flyable A/C

Ar-234 PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
D0-335
JU-88
ME-410
TEMPEST
dehavilland MOSQUITO
P-59

Heck I would pay 50 usd, hey C1, Oleg I see some oportunity here

er...backme up guys ;P

Uh yeah I'd pay $29 for German planes listed above. I don't require the others.

Talamir
06-19-2005, 03:48 AM
Here you guys are talking about the Tempest and leaving out other important aircraft that should have been included, like the TBD Devastator, the TBF/M Avengers, Macchi 202's and 205's, SB2C Helldivers, Hawker Typhoons, B5N Kates, and some other aircraft. Don't forget the other important aircraft!

ImpStarDuece
06-19-2005, 04:24 AM
Typhoon won't happen, neither, apparently, will the Devestator or the Helldiver.

Macchi 202 is already in the game and the new exterior model and cockpit for it are already complete. The 205 is a similar story, cockpit complete and sent to Oleg.

The Avenger is a sore spot on the boards. We have it as an AI but not as a flyable.

The Kate was being modeled by chappie called Zneg but I don't know what happened there. He sent me some stuff for translation but I couldn't get it back to him in time (there were some very weird Kanji there).

I'm a little sick of all the late war birds. Give me a Tyffie and a Whirlwind and i'd be happy as anything.

Birds like the Do-335, Ar-234, P-59 has such limited impact that I really don't see the point. Then again they go well with the Go-229, Bf-109Z, He-162, YP-80, I-185 and the other late war also rans.

Talamir
06-19-2005, 04:37 AM
I find it hard to have a Midway campaign and not have the Kates and Devestators, both of which were crucial to the battles.

p1ngu666
06-20-2005, 04:11 PM
bump

goshikisen
06-21-2005, 10:39 AM
Originally posted by ImpStarDuece:

The Kate was being modeled by chappie called Zneg but I don't know what happened there. He sent me some stuff for translation but I couldn't get it back to him in time (there were some very weird Kanji there).

Birds like the Do-335, Ar-234, P-59 has such limited impact that I really don't see the point.

I believe Zneg was modelling the Nakajima B6N Jill. There are no B5Ns left and very little documentation from which to model a cockpit. The Smithsonian, on the other hand, has the last remaining Jill in the world... a definitive resource for a cockpit. Believe it or not the Jill was on outdoor display until 1981 when it was acquired by the NASM.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v460/goshikisen/jill.jpg
B6N Tenzan at Willow Grove - pre 1981 (notice open cockpit.... ARGHH!)

I would tend to agree with ImpStarDeuce that the sim doesn't need any additional late war oddities... with one exception. The AR-234 saw limited operational service but did play a part in the war. It did a fair amount of photo-recon work but as a bomber it took part in the famous raid on the Remagen bridge. I wouldn't mind seeing a Blitz in the game.

Regards, Goshikisen.

darkhorizon11
06-21-2005, 10:40 AM
It might have to do with the fact that bandwidth was bad enough for downloading a 140 meg patch never mind a 300 meg one or however big it would have been with 5 or 6 more planes.

A.K.Davis
06-21-2005, 11:00 AM
Originally posted by darkhorizon11:
It might have to do with the fact that bandwidth was bad enough for downloading a 140 meg patch never mind a 300 meg one or however big it would have been with 5 or 6 more planes.

140mbs is not occupied entirely by the additional aircraft in patch. It is a result of Il-2 design that patch must be of a certain size even with only 1 aircraft. I believe Saqson stated, for example, that Betty itself is only 3-4mb.

J_Weaver
06-21-2005, 11:22 AM
Originally posted by ImpStarDuece:
Birds like the Do-335, Ar-234, P-59 has such limited impact that I really don't see the point. Then again they go well with the Go-229, Bf-109Z, He-162, YP-80, I-185 and the other late war also rans.

Yup, I agree. Their all nice additions to this wonderful sim, but I would have rather seen (and would rather see) the limited development time spent on the missing aircraft that played a big or at least bigger role.

LEXX_Luthor
06-21-2005, 11:37 AM
If we count the Flyable plane types, we have about 10 to 20 "real" planes for every "fantasy" plane, depending on the definitions used. So no, the "fantasy" planes are not hurting the "real" planeset, thus contradicting the posts in this thread. Something else is going on, and that something is sheer difficulty of modding multi~crew bombers and large fighters using Oleg's astronomically high modding standards and requirements for all crew member stations to be modded no matter how little interest they are to flight simmers.

If we stop to *look* at the plane set, we see all the important single engine - single seat Online Dogfight Planes are modded with the exception of those that had 3rd Party modder failure (Tempest/Typhoon) and/or Legal issues. The Italian Dogfight aircraft and cockpits are coming.

Otherwise, the Word War 2 Online Dogfight planeset is almost complete. These are comparatively easy planes and cockpits to make (and the popular planes to score internet Brownie Points - not a coincidence). Same with the single seat jet fighters. So the problem is not "fantasy" planes here, but lack of ability and resources to mod beyond the single seat Dogfight cockpits.

VW-IceFire
06-21-2005, 11:50 AM
Originally posted by Talamir:
Here you guys are talking about the Tempest and leaving out other important aircraft that should have been included, like the TBD Devastator, the TBF/M Avengers, Macchi 202's and 205's, SB2C Helldivers, Hawker Typhoons, B5N Kates, and some other aircraft. Don't forget the other important aircraft!
Lets be realistic...the Tempest is not under a strangulating legal requirement and the model is already in-game. The Typhoon was destroyed by bad modeling (that we didn't know about at the time) and several other important aircraft will also never see the light of day because of such problems.

However, the Tempest cannot be considered a very late war oddity. It was a frontline fighter with British air defense from early to middle 1944 and on the continent with RAF TAF.II from fall 1944 until the end of the war. With over 800 produced and serving frontline thats no small number. But more to the point, its a possible inclusion. A Typhoon would be great...but canned. All US aircraft, canned. Italian aircraft are already taken careof by "Club Med" and there are some excellent examples waiting to be implemented - I hope they are.

Also talk about the Fokker D.XXI as AI or flyable. Mmmm whatelse....Pe2, IL-10 (hope nobody calls it a late war oddity either - enough in service to count). Mmm...I'd say there is a good mix of aircraft coming from all wartimeperiods. Lets not pick too much on one plane or date.

waffen-79
06-21-2005, 12:49 PM
It's me again, hehehe

I think the current plane-set it's pretty much COMPLETE, BUT the planes we're asking for (JU-88 any variant, DO-335, Ar-234 this one tis difficult, granted) wouldn't hurt this sim, I mean we could use some variety here.

What I hated most of CF2/CF3 and OFP:CW, OFP:RES (I love OFP) was that one must keep up with the different releases of the same vehicle/chopper/plane i.e: 6 versions of the Leopard or the Abramms from diff authors, And online playing was a nightmare. So TOTAL control from the developers it's ok, even if we must BEG to include a certain plane.

Why don't we ask Oleg/1C to release a GENERIC cockpit or wonderwoman view for the single seat AI planes, I mean afterall, everysingle plane IS using the same FM, I know this could be a problem with the heavy bombers(firing pos)

You know what, nevermind bout the generic cockpit I'm begining to realize there are other problems involved.

I wish someone important read these posts, our suggestions must worth something to the developers.

p1ngu666
06-21-2005, 03:41 PM
would anyone fly the blitz? no photo recon, and everyone hisses and spits at the mear mention of 262~2a.

tempest is important, so i can be insolently suppuiour while downing v1's http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif