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thefruitbat
02-12-2008, 10:05 AM
A new one on me, but by god i wish it was in '46!!!

8 60lb rockets, plus a 1000lb bomb and of course 4 x Hispano MkV's

472mph at 22,000ft, with a rate of climb at 4000ft/min (20.3m/s) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

And what a looker, she's gorgeous, an uber mossie http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y290/thefruitbat1/798px-Hornet3-64.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y290/thefruitbat1/Hornet3-1.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y290/thefruitbat1/Hornet4.jpg

and she dosent mind carrier ops!

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y290/thefruitbat1/800px-SeaHornet1.jpg

bow down before and show your appreciatation http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

cheers fruitbat

Low_Flyer_MkIX
02-12-2008, 10:06 AM
Pah! Poor man's Whirlwind http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

JtD
02-12-2008, 10:15 AM
If you see planes like this, you've got to hate jets.

R_Target
02-12-2008, 10:19 AM
She's a real looker. Love those slimline Merlins. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

biggs222
02-12-2008, 10:23 AM
too bad it was a whole year too late for the "show"

Low_Flyer_MkIX
02-12-2008, 10:35 AM
Originally posted by biggs222:
too bad it was a whole year too late for the "show"

Which is precisely why, gentlemen, you should be lobbying for the inclusion of Westland's finest (1940), not that shoddy Whelkin rip-off. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

thefruitbat
02-12-2008, 10:47 AM
Also, fastest ever wooden plane, and only the do335 was a faster 2 prop plane, but a **** load ugglier http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

She also had counter rotating props, like the 38, and Eric Brown certainley seemed to like it.

anyway, some more of this beauty

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y290/thefruitbat1/horn20r.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y290/thefruitbat1/hornend.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y290/thefruitbat1/feathered_a.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y290/thefruitbat1/two_for_one_d.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y290/thefruitbat1/80_sqdn_hornets_6.jpg


enjoy

thefruitbat
02-12-2008, 10:50 AM
Originally posted by Low_Flyer_MkIX:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by biggs222:
too bad it was a whole year too late for the "show"

Which is precisely why, gentlemen, you should be lobbying for the inclusion of Westland's finest (1940), not that shoddy Whelkin rip-off. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

bahhh humbug, and looks is looks, your's is a 2:00am thing, mine's a 7pm honey http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif

fruitbat

Rood-Zwart
02-12-2008, 10:53 AM
So this is what happens if you leave a Mossie and a Me410 in the same room?

luftluuver
02-12-2008, 10:57 AM
HORNET ORIGINS

* There were a number of proposals for Mosquito derivatives. In November 1941, DH proposed the "DH.99", later redesignated the "DH.101", fast heavy bomber to the Air Ministry. The DH.101 was apparently something like a scaled-up Mosquito that was to be powered by twin Napier Sabre 24-cylinder inline engines, used on the Hawker Typhoon, driving contrarotating propellers. It was informally referred to as the "Sabre Mosquito".

The DH.101 was to carry a 7,260 kilogram (16,000 pound) bomb load to Berlin at a top speed of 692 KPH (430 MPH). However, the Sabre development program was troubled and DH was told they would have to make do with the Griffon, Rolls-Royce's next-generation successor to the Merlin. The result did not have clear advantages over the existing Mosquito, and the idea was dropped in April 1942.

The Air Ministry then tossed around the notion of an improved "DH.102 Mosquito II" with two-stage Merlins, but de Havilland couldn't come up with a design concept that was particularly exciting, and that line of investigation was dropped in turn at the end of 1942.

However, during 1942, DH had begun a private investigation of a single-seat fighter based on the Mosquito. The "DH.103 Hornet", as it would be known, was intended for the Pacific theater, where the great ocean spaces made long range a requirement. De Havilland worked with Rolls-Royce to obtain a slim-profile version of the Merlin engine for the Hornet, and with a design for this engine in hand, de Havilland was able to show a mockup of the Hornet to the Ministry of Air Production in January 1943.

The demonstration led to an order for two prototypes in June 1943 under Specification "12/43". The first prototype performed its initial flight on 28 July 1944, with Geoffrey de Havilland JR at the controls. The prototype was in the air only 13 months after the beginning of the detailed design effort. Performance exceeded predictions, with a top speed of 780 KPH (485 MPH) and a blazing climb rate of 1,370 meters (4,500 feet) per minute. A production order followed.

As it emerged, the Hornet had an unmistakeable resemblance to the Mosquito, but was smaller and "sportier". The fuselage was built of wood in much the same way as the Mosquito, but the two-spar, one-piece, laminar-flow wing was of mixed construction, with a wood and metal internal structure, an undersurface of reinforced Alcad, and a birch-ply upper skin. The Hornet was the first aircraft to feature "wood bonded to metal" construction, using a new "Redux" adhesive.

The Hornet was powered by twin Rolls-Royce Merlins, which unlike the Merlins fitted to the Mosquito were "handed", with a "Merlin 130" on one side and a "Merlin 131" on the other, both rated at 1,515 kW (2,030 HP) and fitted with Hydromatic four-blade variable-pitch propellers. The engine radiators were fitted in the leading edge of the wings inboard of the engines. Like the Mosquito, the Hornet had "taildragger" landing gear, with the main gear retracting back into the engine nacelles and a semi-retractable tailwheel.

The fighter was armed with four 20 millimeter Hispano cannon, fitted under the nose. The pilot sat under a backwards-sliding bubble-type canopy. The second prototype and production aircraft were fitted for underwing stores, including two 909 liter (200 imperial gallon / 240 US gallon) drop tanks; or two 450 kilogram (1,000 pound) bombs; or eight 60-pounder RPs; or two 225 kilogram (500 pound) bombs and four RPs. Since the production aircraft were fitted with operational kit, they were heavier and so slower than the prototypes, but not by much, with a top speed of 760 KPH (472 MPH).

Production of the fighter began at de Havilland's Hatfield plant in late 1944, with the first "Hornet F.1" machines delivered to RAF Boscombe Down for pre-service evaluation on 28 February 1945. A total of 60 production F.1s were built. Early production machines demonstrated some longitudinal instability, leading to the fit of a larger tailplane with a dorsal extension that was retrofitted to initial production. The dorsal extension was retained in all other Hornet variants.

An unarmed photo-reconnaissance variant, the "Hornet PR.2", was considered, with three prototypes converted from F.1s and five evaluation aircraft built before a production order for 55 machines was cancelled. A "Fighter Mark 3" Hornet did reach full production, with 132 built. This version featured greater fuel capacity and a modified tailplane assembly.

DE HAVILLAND HORNET F.3:
_____________________ _________________ _______________________

spec metric english
_____________________ _________________ _______________________

wingspan 13.72 meters 45 feet
wing area 33.54 sq meters 361 sq_feet
length 11.18 meters 36 feet 8 inches
height 4.32 meters 14 feet 2 inches

empty weight 5,842 kilograms 12,880 pounds
loaded weight 9,480 kilograms 20,900 pounds

max speed at altitude 760 KPH 470 MPH / 410 KT
service ceiling 10,670 meters 35,000 feet
range with drop tanks 5,635 kilometers 3,500 MI / 3,045 NMI
_____________________ _________________ _______________________


Production of the F.3 was switched to the de Havilland plant at Chester in 1948. The last Hornets were built with an F.52 camera vertically mounted in the rear fuselage, with a fuel tank downsized to accommodate it. These machines were designated "Fighter-Reconnaissance Mark 4 (FR.4)", and 12 were manufactured to end of production in 1951, after the delivery of a total of 211 Hornets.

Most of the Mark 3s served in Malaya from 1950 to 1955 to deal with the Communist insurgency there. Their long endurance gave them substantial loiter time over target areas, and they extremely accurate in cannon, bomb, and rocket strikes. They were phased out with regrets in 1955 due to spares shortages. The Hornet was the last RAF piston-powered fighter to see operational service.

http://www.faqs.org/docs/air/avmoss3.html#m1

thefruitbat
02-12-2008, 11:08 AM
cool info luftluuver, thanks http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

bad day at the office:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y290/thefruitbat1/oops_a3.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y290/thefruitbat1/oops_b3.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y290/thefruitbat1/oops_c3.jpg

any landing you can walk away from....

fruitbat

Rjel
02-12-2008, 11:30 AM
By far and away one of the prettiest A/C ever produced. Being a Mosquito fan from way back, this plane has always been a great "what if" for me.

JG53Frankyboy
02-12-2008, 11:34 AM
a queen of the sky !
and with a marvelous performace , but than came the jets...................

MB_Avro_UK
02-12-2008, 01:38 PM
Originally posted by thefruitbat:
cool info luftluuver, thanks http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

bad day at the office:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y290/thefruitbat1/oops_a3.jpg


Anyone else notice the Observer's cockpit half way down the fuselage http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif


Best Regards,
MB_Avro

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y290/thefruitbat1/oops_b3.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y290/thefruitbat1/oops_c3.jpg

any landing you can walk away from....

fruitbat

Pluto8742
02-12-2008, 02:00 PM
Beautiful. And made mostly from balsa wood, old pianos, spam and cider.

Cheers,

P8.

WOLFMondo
02-12-2008, 03:45 PM
Originally posted by thefruitbat:

She also had counter rotating props, like the 38, and Eric Brown certainley seemed to like it.


I belive along with the F86E that the Hornet was his favorite aircraft to fly.

I bow down to such a great aircraft.

Choctaw111
02-12-2008, 04:41 PM
So a few of these were delivered before the end of the war, but none of them were used operationally during the war? Man, just like the Bearcat http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

That is a GORGEOUS plane by the way...

ElAurens
02-12-2008, 04:57 PM
Any use in the Korean War?

Taylortony
02-12-2008, 04:57 PM
where they not used in malaya? know they were retired due to delaming probs

thefruitbat
02-12-2008, 05:05 PM
They were used for sure in Malaya, don't know about Korea, maybe sea hornets in korea, but don't know.

I read on wikipedia, so take with a pinch of salt, that they were retired due to lack of spares http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

fruitbat

Taylortony
02-12-2008, 05:25 PM
I read it somewhere, God knows where, but they said something about lack of spares and then finding delamination on a couple of them in Malasia was the end of it.

thefruitbat
02-12-2008, 06:09 PM
Are there any existing models on display anywhere, i'm guessing there's no flyables?

fruitbat

woofiedog
02-13-2008, 12:36 AM
Seems that none were saved from the scrapyard...

A total of 198 hornet and 182 naval variant Sea Hornet were produced, and all were scrapped by the end of 1957.
Sadly, none were preserved.
Only a part of the Sea Hornet fuselage is stored by The Mosquito Museum in Hatfield, North London.

De Havilland Aircraft Heritage Centre (http://www.aeroflight.co.uk/mus/uk/dehav/mosqmus.htm)

Gibbage1
02-13-2008, 01:13 AM
Me, I like the F7F for late-war twin prop carrier aircraft. Not quite as fast as the Hornet, but a real looker also. Plus it not only had the 4 hispano's, but also 4 .50's!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/75/F7F-3P_Tigercat.jpg

Also, you want a really sexy 1946 twin? How about the F5U?

http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/models/boxtops/has51563.jpg

Bewolf
02-13-2008, 02:14 AM
Gotta love those late war twins. Beatuiful aircraft, both of them. And especially the Hornet has this britishness to it. Cool, hehe.

thefruitbat
02-13-2008, 03:16 AM
Originally posted by woofiedog:
Seems that none were saved from the scrapyard...

A total of 198 hornet and 182 naval variant Sea Hornet were produced, and all were scrapped by the end of 1957.
Sadly, none were preserved.
Only a part of the Sea Hornet fuselage is stored by The Mosquito Museum in Hatfield, North London.

De Havilland Aircraft Heritage Centre (http://www.aeroflight.co.uk/mus/uk/dehav/mosqmus.htm)

What a terible shame they scraped them all http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Thanks for the link though, might have to trundle of up there soon, looks like a nice little museum http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Not seen the F7F before, looks nice, but it ain't no hornet http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/crackwhip.gif

What the hell is that F5U????, i'm guessing that stayed on the drawing board http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

fruitbat

MrBlueSky1960
02-13-2008, 04:19 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://www.dhhornet50.net/

Inadaze
02-13-2008, 05:50 AM
Originally posted by thefruitbat:

What the hell is that F5U????, i'm guessing that stayed on the drawing board http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

fruitbat

Have a look here (http://www.stage6.com/History---World-War-II/video/1696659/Secret-Allied-Aircraft-Of-WWII), approx 9 minutes into the doc it has the xf5u-1.

Seems it wasn't a bad design, high top speed, low landing speed and near vertical take off. A very early Prototype V173 flew, and the Navy ordered a fighter version the xf5u, the expected performance was a take off and landing speed of 40mph, top speed of 500 mph, could carry 2 100lb bombs and had six .50 cals. Unfortunately the xf5u proto was scrapped before it's first flight as the navy went with jet technology.

woofiedog
02-13-2008, 06:55 AM
Gibbage1... Those F7F's are one of my favorite of the Grumman Bird's.

thefruitbat... And after all those years of flight time 46-57... no one thought of saving a piece of avation history and a real beauty of a machine also. Sad indeed

MrBlueSky1960... Excellent link... and a sad set of pictures of what is left over with the Hornet story. A hand full of pieces and parts.

Inadaze... a bit of a download at 1hr. But will check it out that video later on today.

ElAurens
02-13-2008, 11:02 AM
http://www.visi.com/~jweeks/p82/p82usaf.jpg

We will be able to fly the P/F 82 Twin Mustang in the new RRG Korean War Sim based on the SOW engine.

It was no slouch in performance.

General characteristics

* Crew: 2
* Length: 42 ft 9 in (12.93 m)
* Wingspan: 51 ft 3 in (15.62 m)
* Height: 13 ft 10 in (4.22 m)
* Wing area: 408 ft² (37.90 m²)
* Empty weight: 15,997 lb (7,271 kg)
* Max takeoff weight: 25,591 lb (11,632 kg)
* Powerplant: 2× Allison V-1710-143/145 liquid-cooled V12 engines, 1,600 hp (1,200 kW each) each

Performance

* Maximum speed: 400 knots (460 mph, 740 km/h) at 21,000 ft (6,400 m)
* Range: 1,950 nm (2,250 mi, 3,605 km)
* Service ceiling 38,900 ft (11,855 m)

Armament

* Guns: 6× .50 in (12.7 mm) Browning M2 machine guns
* Rockets: 25× 5 in (127 mm) rockets
* Bombs: 4,000 lb (1,800 kg)

Got those numbers from wiki, I've seen higher speed numbers quoted elsewhere.

Just think, it will "Win teh War" times 2!!!!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Pluto8742
02-13-2008, 11:06 AM
Originally posted by Taylortony:
I read it somewhere, God knows where, but they said something about lack of spares and then finding delamination on a couple of them in Malasia was the end of it.

Yeah, easy to believe. Wooden aircraft are OK in Europe or the US where they can be kept in dry environments (I have flown beautiful German-built wooden gliders from the 1960s that are still holding together very well). But with a wooden aircraft in a humid country, the pilot's thoughts are soon turning to the strength of the glue.

One thing which I don't think anyone has commented on is the number of crew. AFAIK, all Mossies were two seaters, but the Hornet was a single seater. What changed?

Cheers,

P8.

p1ngu666
02-13-2008, 11:31 AM
hornet had a slim fusealarge, later verions for night fighter role had co pilot in the rear (like a beafighter)

stathem
02-13-2008, 12:03 PM
Originally posted by Pluto8742:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Taylortony:
I read it somewhere, God knows where, but they said something about lack of spares and then finding delamination on a couple of them in Malasia was the end of it.

Yeah, easy to believe. Wooden aircraft are OK in Europe or the US where they can be kept in dry environments (I have flown beautiful German-built wooden gliders from the 1960s that are still holding together very well). But with a wooden aircraft in a humid country, the pilot's thoughts are soon turning to the strength of the glue.

One thing which I don't think anyone has commented on is the number of crew. AFAIK, all Mossies were two seaters, but the Hornet was a single seater. What changed?

Cheers,

P8. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hornet was designed from the outset as a single seat fighter based on the Mossie, with an eye on the long distance role (with two-engined safety) that would have been needed if the Tiger Force had had to go into operation. Bit like the Tempest II was slated for S.E.Asian operations.

GreyFox5
02-13-2008, 12:16 PM
Ah those Brits had a lot of speed and style in those days. Good looking bird they had there and I bet a pilots favorite!

Enforcer572005
02-13-2008, 10:52 PM
An F-82 will be great. Scored the first kills of the war (a pair of Yaks).

The XF5U very nearly flew, but the Navy was forbidden from flying the production model prototypes, most likely due to the fact that the performance was so great, and they were trying to get money for jets. It could take off from a CVE without a catapult and land without a tail hook.

Would be nice to have a production version in a 1946 type sim someday.

woofiedog
02-13-2008, 11:39 PM
Very much looking forward to the Korean War Sim... with sea & land based air units. It should be a game with a lot of potential in mission building and etc.

A few screens from the WoE/WoV series of Pasko's F-82.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v438/woofiedog/img00060.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v438/woofiedog/img00042.jpg

woofiedog
02-14-2008, 01:36 AM
Inadaze... Had a chance to watch the video.... some Excellent fim footage was used in it along with interviews. Thank's for posting.

R_Target
02-14-2008, 02:01 AM
XF5U (http://www.daveswarbirds.com/usplanes/aircraft/flapjack.htm)


Flight testing of the V-173 went on through 1942 and 1943, resulting in reports of "flying saucers" from surprised Connecticut locals.

http://i27.tinypic.com/xktzic.gif

More here. (http://www.unrealaircraft.com/wings/cv_flapjack.php)

woofiedog
02-14-2008, 02:27 AM
R_Target... Great links. In the video that Inadaze has posted. There is a section of film footage that shows one of the test models over turned on a Connecticut beach. And the damage was only light! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

R_Target
02-14-2008, 04:27 AM
I guess it was fairly tough.


Its engines, instruments and other salvageable items were removed and the airframe placed under the steel ball of a demolition crane. The first few drops failed to dent the aircraft.