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zombiewolf92553
11-03-2005, 08:13 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gifI am going almost nuts with my freaking wingmen(ai) citting right in front of me and nailling the guy I have been after.
Grrrrr reminds me of cfs2.
anyway to fix it.
I am talking about offline campaigns http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

tigertalon
11-04-2005, 04:28 AM
I would like to see the patch that would fix online flyers doing the same.

But I guess we will just have to accept it as one of the inevitable truths of life.

Codex1971
11-04-2005, 05:27 AM
Originally posted by zombiewolf92553:
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gifI am going almost nuts with my freaking wingmen(ai) citting right in front of me and nailling the guy I have been after.
Grrrrr reminds me of cfs2.
anyway to fix it.
I am talking about offline campaigns http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

I would actually like the AI to not engage as soon as they see the enemy, but wait for your order to engage. Would make timing attacks much better.

heloguy99
11-04-2005, 06:42 AM
Yeah, they suck like that. Two things I've found to work: 1- If you're in command, tell them to reform on you. 2- If you aren't, give them a spray with your machine guns. Last resort of course, when they've stolen your tenth kill of the day or when you're about to match Hartmann's kill tally on your campaign. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

vanjast
11-04-2005, 09:44 AM
Wot I usually do is offload half my ammo into my wingman, then send the rest of the flight on a suicide mission..
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

Chuck_Older
11-04-2005, 10:18 AM
Originally posted by vanjast:
Wot I usually do is offload half my ammo into my wingman, then send the rest of the flight on a suicide mission..
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

Why half? Wait until the mission is complete, then unload ALL of it into him

horseback
11-04-2005, 10:22 AM
You have to get used to the idea that the ai cheat; they can run at 110% throttle + WEP all day without overheating, fly with perfect trim and at maximum performance at all times, extend their flaps to mid position even on a/c that didn't have mid position settings, enjoy perfect situational awareness, and if rated Ace, will seek and take the easiest shot available to them and make it every time at almost any range. Don't even get me started about the ai gunners in the multi-seaters...

I have taken the stance that I will not tolerate a 'friendly' ace on my campaign missions: this means that I have to edit my generated missions in the FMB, select each 'friendly' flight, and rate each pilot according to his place in the unit roster, while studiously ignoring when and where the enemy flights will show up.

Generally, it takes 10+ kills and 30+ missions to be rated 'Veteran', 2 kills and at least 20 missions to be rated 'Average'. Anything less than that is a Rookie. There are NO 'Aces' on the friendly flights; in my experience, all they do is poach kills from the player. Knock big chunks off an enemy a/c, set it smoking or on fire, and the 'Ace' suddenly appears to fire a burst from 400m behind you to de-wing the already disabled target 150m ahead of you.

I've also had 'Aces' put a few rounds into an aircraft going straight down, 50m short of crashing, and take credit for my kill while I'm fighting for my virtual life and screaming for help less than 1/2 km away. In real life, people like this got their @ss kicked outside the Officers' Club after the mission and/or transferred to another unit with a letter of warning placed in their service record.

This option not being available to me, I take more direct action. If I have ammo left, I shoot the bastage down right there and then; call it a field Court Martial. If this is not possible, I demote him to Rookie before reflying the mission or flying the next mission and every mission thereafter until he is shot down.

I came up with this solution after one 'charactor' on my unit roster stole kills from me in this way in three straight missions, and then collided with me in the landing pattern after I'd scored over six kills on the fourth meeting (subsequent 'Reflys' never remotely achieved this level of success).

Seeing his name as the Number Three in my flight on the 5th mission drove me over the edge...

Oleg claims that the ai have the same FM as the players' a/c, just simplified, but that doesn't appear to me to be true. I've been outrun and outclimbed too many times by ai who started much lower & slower in the same model a/c over the last three years. I always put a few rounds into these to discourage obvious cheating, and shoot them down outright if they do the blatantly impossible in order to steal my intended target.

I'd like to be able to edit the missions' AI for more realism without risking my immersion or giving away the surprise factor in each new mission, but I'm not holding my breath.

cheers

horseback

ManicGibber
11-05-2005, 06:42 PM
Originally posted by horseback:
You have to get used to the idea that the ai cheat; they can run at 110% throttle + WEP all day without overheating, fly with perfect trim and at maximum performance at all times, extend their flaps to mid position even on a/c that didn't have mid position settings, enjoy perfect situational awareness, and if rated Ace, will seek and take the easiest shot available to them and make it every time at almost any range. Don't even get me started about the ai gunners in the multi-seaters...

I have taken the stance that I will not tolerate a 'friendly' ace on my campaign missions: this means that I have to edit my generated missions in the FMB, select each 'friendly' flight, and rate each pilot according to his place in the unit roster, while studiously ignoring when and where the enemy flights will show up.

Generally, it takes 10+ kills and 30+ missions to be rated 'Veteran', 2 kills and at least 20 missions to be rated 'Average'. Anything less than that is a Rookie. There are NO 'Aces' on the friendly flights; in my experience, all they do is poach kills from the player. Knock big chunks off an enemy a/c, set it smoking or on fire, and the 'Ace' suddenly appears to fire a burst from 400m behind you to de-wing the already disabled target 150m ahead of you.

I've also had 'Aces' put a few rounds into an aircraft going straight down, 50m short of crashing, and take credit for my kill while I'm fighting for my virtual life and screaming for help less than 1/2 km away. In real life, people like this got their @ss kicked outside the Officers' Club after the mission and/or transferred to another unit with a letter of warning placed in their service record.

This option not being available to me, I take more direct action. If I have ammo left, I shoot the bastage down right there and then; call it a field Court Martial. If this is not possible, I demote him to Rookie before reflying the mission or flying the next mission and every mission thereafter until he is shot down.

I came up with this solution after one 'charactor' on my unit roster stole kills from me in this way in three straight missions, and then collided with me in the landing pattern after I'd scored over six kills on the fourth meeting (subsequent 'Reflys' never remotely achieved this level of success).

Seeing his name as the Number Three in my flight on the 5th mission drove me over the edge...

Oleg claims that the ai have the same FM as the players' a/c, just simplified, but that doesn't appear to me to be true. I've been outrun and outclimbed too many times by ai who started much lower & slower in the same model a/c over the last three years. I always put a few rounds into these to discourage obvious cheating, and shoot them down outright if they do the blatantly impossible in order to steal my intended target.

I'd like to be able to edit the missions' AI for more realism without risking my immersion or giving away the surprise factor in each new mission, but I'm not holding my breath.

cheers

horseback

I don't waste any ammo on the ******, I have found a sneaky little cheat. Minimise the game then open the eventlog.lst <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">BEFORE(this is important) you hit escape</span> to go to the screen which shows the map and all the kills. Then find the offending AI in the list and delete it and add your own pilot number, save the file in the game folder with the same file name, BTW you have to do this twice as the file brings up a warning message when you try to save it the first time. Maximise the game then hit escape, your kills won't be listed on the map but they will be listed when you hit the apply button.

BTW Oleg may have modelled the AI on Russian Airmen, and that's the reason why they steal your kills, lmao.

Grue_
11-07-2005, 05:41 AM
If they AI obeyed your formation commands and didn't attack without orders it wouldn't be an issue.

Currently, they spot enemy aircraft and disappear like the poles in the BoB movie http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

It's impossible to bring your formation into a favorable position before attack or withdraw without attacking faced with superior numbers or something.

They attack fighters when your primary target is bombers and you can issue as many commands as you like, they simply ignore you when enemy aircraft are around.

I applaud the recent improvements to the AI but it seems simple to a non-programmer like me to change the code to make the AI do what you want when they are in your immediate vicinity.

Slater_51st
11-07-2005, 02:50 PM
I've had the AI shoot ME down while I was closing in on a kill. I was in my 109 F4, and there was a flight of 190 A4s buzzing about. I came in on a single polikarpov biplane. Started shooting, and then the sky filled with tracers as TWO focke wulfs opened up at the enemy, and hit me a good deal. So, I zipped down to base and belly landed.

Still, really stupid AI, I hate them sometimes!

Kuna15
11-07-2005, 03:27 PM
I just love when my ai squadmates shoot down all/most of the enemy planes, unfortunately that don't happen as often as I wish.
Anyway I have been really rarely hit by friendly ai fighter let alone being shot down by one.
But I do remember a times when you had to watch for your ai friends, they didn't checked much their 12oc for friendlies when shooting as they do now.

tomtheyak
11-07-2005, 03:51 PM
You'd moan a lot louder if there were none there at all... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

You guys have got it all wrong. Yeah the FAI is a bit eager, but when I tell em to get back in formation they do for me. Maybe I'm a better air leader.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Just kidding!
Keep an ear out and an eye on your flight as well as for the enemy - you can tell when the friendlys break to attack often by sound alone. Tell em to get back in formation and all should be good. I've made some great tactical attacks using this very device. Yellow section can be a little more deviant - they also love to run for home after even the smallest scrap and leave you and red flight hi and dry.

And kill stealing, tho frustrating, is building up a better team of flyers behind you. Why I even sometimes damage an e/a to let a FAI finish him and get the kill so he'll get promoted and better skilled, and I try to protect those guys who've worked their way up to flight leads, hell even the rookies who've just joined. It might be a tad sad to do this but it helps increase the immersion for me. You'd do it in RL, i hope! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

OK they aint perfect. Ground attack and at least one FAI lawn darts. A vet pilot gets shot down by an obsolete plane cos he wasnt avoiding hard enough. Some bast**d comes and shoots down that Ju88 you just spent 5mins and all your ammo workin over. But hey, didnt some of this cr@p happen in real life? Truth, as they say is stranger than fiction.

After all this is just a game and generally a top notch one a that.

Trust me on the Save the AI thing tho... it certainly adds to the immersion for me.

LEXX_Luthor
11-07-2005, 05:24 PM
ManicGibber::
Oleg may have modelled the AI on Russian Airmen, and that's the reason why they steal your kills, lmao.
More likely, AI modeled on Online Dogfighter gamers. Oleg's Team watched the servers and tried to give Offline players the same experience. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif

tigertalon::
I would like to see the patch that would fix online flyers doing the same.
Now that calls for an lmao http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

ManicGibber
11-07-2005, 05:30 PM
Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
ManicGibber:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Oleg may have modelled the AI on Russian Airmen, and that's the reason why they steal your kills, lmao.
More likely, AI modeled on Online Dogfighter gamers. Oleg's Team watched the servers and tried to give Offline players the same experience. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif

tigertalon::
I would like to see the patch that would fix online flyers doing the same.
Now that calls for an lmao http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hehe, that too.

Aeronautico
11-07-2005, 07:39 PM
Originally posted by horseback:
You have to get used to the idea that the ai cheat (...)

Ah, ah! Quite funny. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

If you want to alter mission values without opening the map and spoil the surprise, use the excellent and intuitive IL-2 Mission Tuner (check http://www.airwarefare.com for download).

gbollin
11-08-2005, 06:25 PM
I order my wingmen to cover me before we sight the enemy. when I do this they stay with me
during our first firing pass. After that I
order them to attack. If there is a mix of enemy
fighters and bombers I also tell them to attack bombers then go after the fighter cover.

Bearcat99
11-11-2005, 06:15 AM
The best thing to happen to the AI in this sim other than the improvements made by 1c is VAC (http://www.dwvac.com/). While it will not completely rtemove some of the things the AI does that drive us all nuts.... it will make dealing with them easier. It is amazing how much easier it is to not only aim and shoot.. but to evade when you can concentrate on flying and not be distracted by trying to type out commands to the AI.

zombiewolf92553
11-12-2005, 04:16 PM
so I guess my prob is telling my wingmen to attack at will?