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XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 01:44 PM
http://www.treffnix.onlinehome.de/trk/beschusstest.zip



Message Edited on 09/18/0312:45PM by Treffnix__48

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 01:44 PM
http://www.treffnix.onlinehome.de/trk/beschusstest.zip



Message Edited on 09/18/0312:45PM by Treffnix__48

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 05:42 PM
Yes we know.. Lagg3 is the ideal bomb killer in FB.. ur as agile as german escorts, and you climb with them, and you dont have to worry about getting engine damaged /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif Also those Heinkel defence gunners have no affect on your lagg3 .. you also have those super VVS¨-air-to-air missles.. ANd you have heavy armament. 1 sec burst, and heinkel is in peaces.. like your track showed..

____________________________________



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XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 06:17 PM
Want some cheese with that?

Treffnix__48 wrote:
- <a
- href="http://www.treffnix.onlinehome.de/trk/beschu
- sstest.zip"
- target=_blank>http://www.treffnix.onlinehome.de/tr
- k/beschusstest.zip</a>
-
-
-
- Message Edited on 09/18/03 12:45PM by
- Treffnix__48



http://www.redspar.com/redrogue/CraggerUbisig.jpg

About after 30 minutes I puked all over my airplane. I said to myself "Man, you made a big mistake." -Charles 'Chuck' Yeager, regards his first flight

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 06:18 PM
LMAO

<center> http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_109_1063229517.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 06:24 PM
I think the lagg has the best armament in the game. For me at least.

Nic

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 06:25 PM
LOL Sounds about right



Message Edited on 09/18/0308:04PM by johno__UK

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 06:27 PM
BTW if you have trouble fighting LaGG just dive away. It breaks apart at surprisingly low speed. It's a sure bet.

Nic

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 06:37 PM
Dunno, about how effective they are as far as bombers go. But last night I shot down two of 'em in one VEF mission flying an F2. Maybe they just didn't get the opportunity to get a shot off on me.

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 06:57 PM
Bad LW pilots moan about lagg 3. Good ones shoot them down- constantly. I know.

"Tis better to work towards an Impossible Good, rather than a Possible Evil."

SeaFireLIV.
(Spitfire & Escape Whiner Member).

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 07:57 AM
nicolas10 have you flowen the LaGG 3 ??

what speed are you meaning ??

i knowwhat speed it shudders at & what speed it breaks at so id like you to tell me what speed you mean as being " surprisingly low "

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 08:07 AM
I can do that with any plane while turning my Vulnerability to Off.

cahttp://planeta.terra.com.br/educacao/luftwaffe3945/Imagens/hartmann_bf109.jpg


German Pilot would do that LOL

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 08:10 AM
I believe it's about 630 somewhere in that range. Can't remember exactly look out one side I had no aileron. Looked out the other same deal. No rudder or elevator control so you can guess what happened to them. I chopped throttle the nose came up due to the speed, and the lift of the wings. When she almost reaches stall I bailed. There wasn't a control surface left anywhere on the aircraft.

I've dove 109's to 700+ you just get a really dark screen when you pull out. lol

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 08:14 AM
i formerly flew the big cannon 3IT a lot and never had that happen as low as 630 .. perhaps its changed

are you sure you didnt have flaps out ?

<center> http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0SQDLAtUWiWZ3BKw19!aryp7v3C1h1DuNwpHOOuqhlraGSyMAY KiPEOZAA1OBgsLu*Sa0UQ2my0PiFyvNkJ5K7Clsoy7yNtEvOXY nHDuPNiotpZACY2oJxw/aircraftround.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 08:20 AM
Positive I was revenge vulching someone. Although it didn't happen until I tried to pull out of the dive. It was an easy pull though. I had taken no damage previously either.

fluke39
09-19-2003, 10:58 AM
I fly the LaGG3 41 Model consistently online and I can assure you gentlemen it is not the plane many claim it to be.

you have to be very careful in a dive not to break up - even diving a relatively short distance you have to whack your throttle right down low - and taking your eye off the speedometer for a second can be fatal - at speeds above 600kph a strong movement can rip your wing right off - above 640 and your going to lose some part of your aircraft - no matter what you do
Consistent to what Seafire said above - if your in a L/W fighter go into a fast dive and the LaGG cannot follow - if you are in a VVS plane - turn - as almost anything can out-turn it - I know many people say it can turn fight Yaks and La's - but believe me it can't - it will only prevail in a turn fight if the Yak or La pilot isn't experienced - but then almost any plane flown by an experienced fighter can prevail against an inexperienced one.

In fact until I put them correct the other day some people were saying that the "UberLaGG" didn't have any control cables (or rather they could not be hit) - which was another thing that simply was not true.

I believe the DM needs updating - but it also seems to be subject to "Chinese whispers" ie someone notices the LaGG is a bit tougher than most aircraft in SOME respects and all of a sudden everyone has added their own little bit to how the LaGG cannot be shot down etc etc.

From comparing other planes and the LaGG - all I have noticed in terms of the DM is
the engine doesn't suffer from as many different types of damage than most aircraft -as in
a) it doesn't lose power as often and b) the "governor" never goes - which makes the engine rev uncontrollably (and lose power).

Other than these two points the plane seems to have all the features of other planes DM's - it just seems that little bit tougher - as it was supposed to be as it was partially made of tough "delta wood". The Lagg however easily develops a hole in the wing, which degrades performance so much there is no chance of winning a combat with any plane, unless incredible pilot skill and luck are used in copious quantities.

I have seen holes torn all over my LaGG - albeit rarely /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif (- but only because when I get hit have usually exploded or am on fire - heading towards the ground./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

IMO the LaGG if flown properly can be a formidable plane ( and I agree with Nicholas - for me it's armament is the best in the game ) - however It is not going to stand up to other planes - especially later war planes if they are flown properly - an experienced FW or 109 pilot can make mincemeat of the LaGG3.
Inexperienced FW and 109 pilots get shot down by the LaGG3, and because it is a 1941 plane - they then come here and whine./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif





<center><img src=http://mysite.freeserve.com/Angel_one_five/flukelogo.jpg>

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 12:38 PM
test it before u write bs.

Gyrovaguer wrote:
- I can do that with any plane while turning my
- Vulnerability to Off.
-
- ca<img
- src="http://planeta.terra.com.br/educacao/luftwaff
- e3945/Imagens/hartmann_bf109.jpg">
-
-
- German Pilot would do that LOL
-
-

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 12:44 PM
fluke39 wrote:

- I believe the DM needs updating - but it also seems
- to be subject to "Chinese whispers" ie someone
- notices the LaGG is a bit tougher than most aircraft
- in SOME respects and all of a sudden everyone has
- added their own little bit to how the LaGG cannot be
- shot down etc etc.

20 times tougher then a p47? dont believe so.
here are new tracks with a p47.

http://www.treffnix.onlinehome.de/trk/test2.zip

btw it just a test. i dont attack bombers this way normally. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 01:13 PM
Lagg3 for sure is the plane that you can't shoot down if you shoot it from 6 o'clock. It can take many-many hits by a F2 and still fly without any problem.
With a damaged/unstable (due to big holes in one wing) lagg3-41 I have shot down 2 stukas, 1 F2 and some ground targets and had enough time to go back home and land!

On the other hand, this other day I flew a lagg3-41 and I exploded with only ONE hit! Maybe it hit my fuel deposit, I don't know.

Anyway, if any of you knows some good tactics to win a lagg3 with an F2 and F4, I'll be glad to know them.

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 01:21 PM
Vipez- wrote:
- Yes we know.. Lagg3 is the ideal bomb killer in FB..
- ur as agile as german escorts, and you climb with
- them,

Does this say something about the LaGG or about the German escorts?

- and you dont have to worry about getting
- engine damaged

No, but you'll have to worry about PK.

I agree, the LaGG-3 is very good in this role and hardly ever suffers structural damge from small arms. Also, it has no control cables.
Still, I really dislike bomber intercept mission because I get killed frequently.
-------
I did some tests with 1.1b. I had two Pe-2 escorted by one Yak-9D. I went in with one plane. Mission objective was
1) to survive
2) to intercept the bombers.

To my surprise the LaGG-3(41) performed very poorly. You had a very hard time avoiding the escort, you frequently got wounded or killed when going after the Pe-2 (6'o clock necessary due to lack of time)...other planes did better. Some were faster than Yak-9D so didn't have to worry, other could quickly outmaneuver the Yak, other dropped the bomber quickly and than had time to fight the Yak. Early 109 were crap, too, and even late 109 suffered a lot from engine damage, fires an the like.
But among VVS planes, the LaGG was about worst. Even I-16 and I-153 did better with objective 1).
-------
If you want to see an hardcore biased LaGG-3, fly 1.0. Constantly turned 360? within 15 seconds @1000m without losing altitude. Imho it's much better now.
Anyway, 20mm works very good against LaGG-3. One hit might shred a wing right off.

fluke39
09-19-2003, 01:29 PM
JtD wrote:

Also, it has no control cables


yes it does - why do people keep saying this?

i have had mine shot out loads of times

<center><img src=http://mysite.freeserve.com/Angel_one_five/flukelogo.jpg>

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 02:44 PM
fluke39 wrote:
- yes it does - why do people keep saying this?

I have been trying very hard to get my cables hit. Sitting duck in front of bombers. It _never_ happened to me. I _never_ saw AI bail like they do with 109.

- i have had mine shot out loads of times

In the 41 model? On what occasion? (Do you happen to have a track?) I'm just curious.

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 06:56 PM
JtD wrote:
-
- Does this say something about the LaGG or about the
- German escorts?
-
-- and you dont have to worry about getting
-- engine damaged
-
- No, but you'll have to worry about PK.
-

This happens very very very very rarely.. atleast when german weapons are beeing fired upon lagg3.. I just did a QMB, i have no problems shooting down 12 Heinkels, from 6 clock, and i dont take any damage from their defensive MG fire.. I just fly straight and shoot the hell out of them..

- I agree, the LaGG-3 is very good in this role and
- hardly ever suffers structural damge from small
- arms. Also, it has no control cables.
- Still, I really dislike bomber intercept mission
- because I get killed frequently.
--------
- I did some tests with 1.1b. I had two Pe-2 escorted
- by one Yak-9D. I went in with one plane. Mission
- objective was
- 1) to survive
- 2) to intercept the bombers.
- To my surprise the LaGG-3(41) performed very poorly.
- You had a very hard time avoiding the escort, you
- frequently got wounded or killed when going after
- the Pe-2 (6'o clock necessary due to lack of
- time)...other planes did better. Some were faster
- than Yak-9D so didn't have to worry, other could
- quickly outmaneuver the Yak, other dropped the
- bomber quickly and than had time to fight the Yak.
- Early 109 were crap, too, and even late 109 suffered
- a lot from engine damage, fires an the like.
- But among VVS planes, the LaGG was about worst. Even
- I-16 and I-153 did better with objective 1).

This was just because Soviet UBS is way too good, PE2 1942 model and forwards have UBS-defensive MGs, and they are the best MGs in the game.. that does not tell about Lagg DM.. try flying against Stukas or Heinkels, and you see that German defensive gunners have no effect on ur lagg3..


--------
- If you want to see an hardcore biased LaGG-3, fly
- 1.0. Constantly turned 360? within 15 seconds @1000m
- without losing altitude. Imho it's much better now.
- Anyway, 20mm works very good against LaGG-3. One hit
- might shred a wing right off.
-
It is still hardcore biased, I can follow 109 F-2s easily without overheating.. 110% thrrotle radioator closed, and no overheating.. atleast i can use this from some 15 mins.. and the weapons on this beast.. OMG.. Lagg'41 we have in this game has 2x ShKAS, 2X UBS, and one Shvak.. or that is what it looked like, when i watched carefully when i fired. Lol that is a heavy armament, considering 99% of the laggs had 2x Shkas, and 1 Shvak..

Lagg3 (atleast 41 version, havent flown 43 really much yet in 1.11) is still the best plane in FB 1.11 on 1941. You can turn with F2 and Yaks, you have super heavy armament, you wont have to worry about F-2 shooting you down, you dont have to worry about engine overheating.. you even have those super VVS-rockets, which don't affect the flight perfomance of your lagg3 at all.. You climb with F-2s 18m/s, when it should be something like 9-10 M/S, you can do sustained turns at 19sec, when even the object viewer says: "Quick loss of speed in continuous maneuvers." .. this is certainly not the case in FB. Imho Lagg'41 is much better in FB, than Yak1 or Yak7..

And even F-4 have hard time of beating Lagg, though they have some more punch in that MG151/20 but in F-2 it is kinda of a joke.. Not to mention with Mg17. Guess this is one of the planes, that never gets fixxed.. all you have to watch out is Emils with their 2x MG/FF, which is most dangerous for Lagg3, and low dive speed, but once you learn to avoid these you are the king of the hill in '41.

____________________________________



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XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 07:54 PM
You don't have to worry about engine overheating below 500 meters.
Above 500 meters the engine does overheat, this is a bug and it should be fixed so it overheats below 500 meters as well.

Also the damage model is a bit tough but even with small arms fire you can bring it down, again this should be fixed as well.

I just did a few tests of my own against the LaGG3 '41 in an Emil, F2, F4 and G2 and with none of these planes did I have problems to shoot it down.

It had control loss a few times, a few times a pilot kill, shot it on fire one time with only 1 20mm hit in the wing root and 4 times I shot the engine to pieces.

Then I took it on with an Hurricane MKI and had the same results with the .303 machine guns.

It does have some issues but to proclaim it "hardcore biased" is an overstatement.

PS: I wasn't shot down once during these tests.

<center> http://www.322squadron.com/banners/Giobanner.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 08:04 PM
Lagg41? Total noob rocket, damn thing can't even overheat, warning doesn't even kick in till the temp gauge hits 125 C. Problem is it's not possible to get the engine temp that hot. unless you drop flaps and hold the stick back for a couple of minutes with max boost.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

You got to be a real brave hero to fly that baby.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 08:08 PM
Funny how all these tests never include any of the G-6 series or the 10 and 14. Especially since no one is even complaining about the F's and G-2. Lets see you take on two Ace Laggs in a G-6 and win, should be a piece of cake for you./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 08:12 PM
LilHorse wrote:
- Dunno, about how effective they are as far as
- bombers go. But last night I shot down two of 'em
- in one VEF mission flying an F2. Maybe they just
- didn't get the opportunity to get a shot off on me.

It's kind of funny that way, some guys eat 'em for lunch while other guys will empty their guns at them with no effect.

Must be using bias on a slider, yeah! That's the ticket!



<center>
http://members.verizon.net/~vze2cb22/KosSig.gif

Is the Bf-110C-4/B ready yet?<center>

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 08:28 PM
Vipez- wrote:
- This happens very very very very rarely.. atleast
- when german weapons are beeing fired upon lagg3.. I
- just did a QMB, i have no problems shooting down 12
- Heinkels, from 6 clock, and i dont take any damage
- from their defensive MG fire.. I just fly straight
- and shoot the hell out of them..

Lucky you. In my most recent VVS campaign I died three times in three bomber intercept missions. I never died in other planes or in other missions.

I'm not saying the LaGG-3 is 100% correct, but it has been downgraded a lot since 1.0.

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 08:49 PM
RedManAce wrote:
- Funny how all these tests never include any of the
- G-6 series or the 10 and 14. Especially since no
- one is even complaining about the F's and G-2. Lets
- see you take on two Ace Laggs in a G-6 and win,
- should be a piece of cake for you

Your right, it is even easier because the LaGG3 cannot even remotely keep up with the G6 speed wise.

As long as you don't loose valuable speed and don't try to turn with them you gun them down easy.
I took the libery of swapping my 20mm for an MK108 and with 2 short burts both Ace LaGG3's were lawn darts without breaking a sweat. (Actually one didn't even make it to the ground because it blew up instantly with the first 30mm hit)

The battle took about 20 minutes and I had to climb to 5000+ meters in order to get a decent hight advantage to B&Z them and flew with 100% power and Radiators closed the entire time without overheating messages.

It's a nice plane but I have no idea if the G6 is correctly modelled since I don't know much about the plane.

<center> http://www.322squadron.com/banners/Giobanner.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 09:01 PM
5000 meters, try it under 3500 where the battlefeild is. No VVS guys are going to follow you up there. Try it in the same arena, or close, as you did with the F series and G-2.

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 09:02 PM
Well, these tracks are alarming to watch, for seeing the difference between the invulnerabiity of the Lagg engine, as compared with the total vulnerability of the 109 engine. This is indeed either blatant bias on the part of the Russian programmers or a inadvertant mistake. I'd like to believe the latter, personally. The Lagg has an inline engine that is the counterpart of the German engine and therefore there is no reason that it should be less vulnerable at all.
The design of the Russian engine should similar enough that it makes one easily assess within reason, that indeed something is very wrong. I think the 109 engine should be toughened up some and the Russian engine to be made more destructable. They should meet somewhere in the middle.
The fact that you get an oily windscreen everytime a defensive gunner so much as picks his nose and flips a bugger at you, says the DM of the 109 is way too soft!!! And it's obvious that the Lagg engine is way too tough as many hits as it got in those tracks. Nice to see the original poster took the time to document this monumental goof on the part of Maddox.

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin - 1755



Message Edited on 09/19/0308:20PM by mortoma

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 09:07 PM
The Lagg3 '41 also has suprisingly weak wings from what i've found... or i just get damned good shots on them.. but i blew the wing off a Lagg3 '41 w/ a 109 F-2 ... i guess the 15mm must have found the fuel tank or something, because it didnt' snap the wing, it vaporized the joint between it and the fue****e.. quite fun to see though.

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 09:20 PM
RedManAce wrote:
- 5000 meters, try it under 3500 where the battlefeild
- is. No VVS guys are going to follow you up there.
- Try it in the same arena, or close, as you did with
- the F series and G-2.

And you wonder why you get your @$$ handed to you on a silver platter?

You better read up on Luftwaffe tactics because they did not fight like that unless they had no choice.

And when I used the F4 and G2 I used B&Z as well from an Alt advantage.
With the E's and F2 I engaged in turnfights but also only with an alt and speed advantage.

So basicly you failed rule number 1, don't fight the VVS planes on their turf or you will get creamed.

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XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 09:24 PM
soo hmmm , havnt seen the track but from comments in here I will just comment


Why did Russian pilots make up a nickname for the lagg, something like varnished wood coffin?


And then why does the lagg fly the way it does in this game and have its DM??


Hmmmm


I guess 1+1 doesnt equal 2

<center>http://www.blitzpigs.com/john/BP-johann-9-4-03.gif <center>

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 09:36 PM
johann63 wrote:
- soo hmmm , havnt seen the track but from comments in
- here I will just comment
-
-
- Why did Russian pilots make up a nickname for the
- lagg, something like varnished wood coffin?
-
-
- And then why does the lagg fly the way it does in
- this game and have its DM??
-
-
- Hmmmm
-
-
- I guess 1+1 doesnt equal 2

I guess you need to use the correct tactics and it still is a varnished wood coffin.

It does absorb small arms fire fairly easy but it can still be shot down without too much effort with machineguns but against cannon fire it's toast in one or two bursts.
And with the MK108 you only need one burst.

As far as I see it only the not overheating below 500 meters and the abillity to absorb small arms fire need to be addressed.
Don't know about it climb rate but I had no problems out climbing it with the 109's. (And I used auto prop pitch instead of manual prop pitch, the only thing I used on manual was the radiator because the 109's don't overheat as long as you keep the throttle below 100%)

<center> http://www.322squadron.com/banners/Giobanner.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 10:30 PM
Cappadocian_317 wrote:
-
- RedManAce wrote:
-- 5000 meters, try it under 3500 where the battlefeild
-- is. No VVS guys are going to follow you up there.
-- Try it in the same arena, or close, as you did with
-- the F series and G-2.
-
- And you wonder why you get your @$$ handed to you on
- a silver platter?
-
- You better read up on Luftwaffe tactics because they
- did not fight like that unless they had no choice.
-
- And when I used the F4 and G2 I used B&Z as well
- from an Alt advantage.
- With the E's and F2 I engaged in turnfights but also
- only with an alt and speed advantage.
-
- So basicly you failed rule number 1, don't fight the
- VVS planes on their turf or you will get creamed.
-
- <center> <img
- src="http://www.322squadron.com/banners/Giobanner.
- jpg"> </center>
-

So what your saying is historically in 1943 no 109's were fighting or even compeditive below 5000m. Give us a break.

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 10:58 PM
Laggs are strange...Soviet pilots were still flying em in 1944 aces were using too.However a book I have calls them a laquered coffin.


They are really tough in the game I remember getting hit by rear gunners for ages and no obvious engine damage occurred!109s seem to be one hit bang- smoke -oil leak and fires.Why??

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 11:19 PM
Lagg3 won the war... ;-)

DM model of Lagg3 and Me 109 need some fixing...that's for sure...

Regards, Sven

XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 12:16 AM
RedManAce wrote:
- So what your saying is historically in 1943 no 109's
- were fighting or even compeditive below 5000m. Give
- us a break.

It's pretty clear by now that you have absolutely no clue about the air wars fought during WWII.
Here is a little example for you, during BoB the RAF had a hard time against the LW fighters because they flew above the bombers and attacked out of the sun swooping down on the RAF fighters who were engaging the bombers.
When the bomber crews complained as more of their planes fell victim to the RAF's fighters the order was changed and the LW fighters were ordered to stick with the bombers.
They lost combat time because they burned additional fuel by zig zagging over the bombers and lost the alt advantage as well.
Because of this the number of LW fighters shot down was higher then before the order.

Aditionally, I never said the LW never fought below 5000 meters, what I said was that they hardly engaged in an air battle if they did not have alt advantage, unless they had no choice.

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XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 02:15 AM
I think that coffin comment has been overblown just because it is memorable & fits the stereotype that all things soviet are trash, & etc.

Main fallacies of the 1st laggs were not design problems but production problems. When built properly -like for example the prototype it was quite a fast strong plane.


http://idealab.snu.ac.kr/~hobbist/La-5FN/small/La-5FN-06.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 03:38 AM
I only mentioned the laquered coffin because I read about it and the author of the article claimed russion pilots made up the name. didnt confirm if true are not.

Well the lagg3 went on to be the la5/7 and that was a a great plane, even reported by pilots. I think that would prove that not everything soviet is pourly built.


I think most of the planes need to be adjusted for small arms damaged modeling, including the lagg.

<center>http://www.blitzpigs.com/john/BP-johann-9-4-03.gif <center>

XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 03:52 AM
How much damage should german 7.92mm guns do?

Take the Hurricane IIb. Divide by six.

Seems about right to me.


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XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 04:00 AM
Well I looked at your tracks and yes the laGG DM is way off, but it only appears to be so in regards to the engine (I got PK'd more than once) add to that the fact that the cockpit Dm is way overdone in 109 or more likely Under done in the laGG .

I settup a QMB with me in a p40 and 4 laGG41's and had no problems killing them with only short burst so imho it's only a engine DM problem not the whole plane.

I will tell you what I really hate at the momment it's the way Ai can just hit the brakes and make you overshoot it's not a move you can do anything about you sure as hell cant do it youself.

I call it the tom cruise cobra manouver /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

No1RAAF_Pourshot

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No1_RAAF

XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 05:45 AM
Clint-ruin wrote:
"How much damage should german 7.92mm guns do?

Take the Hurricane IIb. Divide by six.

Seems about right to me."


Well, maybe you didn't watch the tracks the original poster
had. If the problem is weak German defensive guns on the He-111, then why do the guns totally destoy the 109s with a slightest pin-*****, but the Lagg-3 flies on as if it's being hit with spit-balls??? No damage to the Lagg-3 at
all. But you get oily windscreen ( death ) in the 109 within seconds of the attack onset. Watch the tracks and you'll be convinced something is wrong, unless there's something wrong with you.........

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin - 1755

fluke39
09-20-2003, 11:31 AM
pourshot wrote:
- Well I looked at your tracks and yes the laGG DM is
- way off, but it only appears to be so in regards to
- the engine (I got PK'd more than once) add to that
- the fact that the cockpit Dm is way overdone in 109
- or more likely Under done in the laGG .
-
- I settup a QMB with me in a p40 and 4 laGG41's and
- had no problems killing them with only short burst
- so imho it's only a engine DM problem not the whole
- plane.



YES

Thank you Pourshot

this is what i have posted earlier in this thread and in many previous threads.

all along i have been saying it is just the engine DM that needs updating

i think the LaGG did have a rep as a quite tough aircraft (delta wood and all that) - but had production problems hence nickname (and probably state of Eastern front airwar in general at that time)..

it is only with that i have not noticed as much damage as other planes
unfortunately this gets diluted by everyone elses tuppence worth saying ...no control cables ..no this no that.. and it is bull.

if anything lagg need extra engine DM a bit more subjectivity to Mg fire in general (like maybe all planes - but i do not know too much about this)
yes your probably right 109 possibly needs toning down.

and JtD i don't have the tracks - but i will say this - maybe it's accuracy of human pilots against other human piloted planes - not AI - but almost all my control losses have been online. - i never record online/take screenshots due to lag.(but believe me it has happened - but at least you experimented before saying about it - many wouldn't/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif )

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XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 01:51 PM
WTE_Galway wrote:
- i formerly flew the big cannon 3IT a lot and never
- had that happen as low as 630 .. perhaps its changed
-
- are you sure you didnt have flaps out ?


I tested this ULTRA UBER Arcade plane lastnight its amazing LOL.....

I was able to dive up too 700kmh I B&Z with it & was able to down 3 109s LOL with 2 second bursts of cannon & mg combined also I wounded a 190 & a Lag3 in the same flight

Total of 5 kills in this ac I gota say it flys real good if you like arcade games It never ever stalls it can do a 500kmh full stick turn in what felt like 15 seconds(360degree turn) no one could kill me as long as I flew that beast later on I destroyed las & yaks easliy never was shot down the whole time I flew this monster it is very fast & preaty fun to fly but I probly wont fly it again...

Bias naaaaaaaaa never...... rotflol

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XyZspineZyX
09-21-2003, 10:27 AM
cozmo_d wrote:
- I tested this ULTRA UBER Arcade plane lastnight its
- amazing LOL.....
-
- I was able to dive up too 700kmh I B&Z with it & was
- able to down 3 109s LOL with 2 second bursts of
- cannon & mg combined also I wounded a 190 & a Lag3
- in the same flight
-
- Total of 5 kills in this ac I gota say it flys real
- good if you like arcade games It never ever stalls
- it can do a 500kmh full stick turn in what felt like
- 15 seconds(360degree turn) no one could kill me as
- long as I flew that beast later on I destroyed las &
- yaks easliy never was shot down the whole time I
- flew this monster it is very fast & preaty fun to
- fly but I probly wont fly it again...
-
- Bias naaaaaaaaa never...... rotflol

Then those 109 and 190 pilots were flying pretty stupid.

Even the F4 can outdive that 700 km/h dive and maintain better control because the LaGG3 '41 model at 700km/h is flying like it's in a bucket of cement and if you try to turn too hard the control surfaces start to break off.

The LaGG3 has some issues but you act like it's the early war wonder machine.

And shooting down a 109 with 2 seconds of combined fire of 2x7.62mm, 2x12.7 and 1x20mm sounds about right to me.

And if you beat people in a LA5FN/LA7 with the LaGG3 '41 model they seriously need to check their skills or you must be really really good at this game and everybody else is crap.

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