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Squeekmore
02-09-2005, 09:02 PM
I'm an avid adventurer and have enjoyed all the Myst games so far, with the exception of the Spider Chair in M4. That was a real showstopper for me. I probably could have done it given enough practice (I play MGS3:Snake Eater on the PS2 quite handily, thank-you), but after failing about a dozen times it just wasn't fun or relaxing. And fun relaxation is why I play adventure games. The PS2 is for keeping my blood pressure up.

I also enjoyed the Broken Sword franchise until they went to a 3D engine and produced BS:The Sleeping Dragon - also known as the "3D Crate Pushing Game". Crates are boring - even if you disguise them up as rocks, or dumpsters, or bales of hay: they're still crates.

So... anyone know if there'll be any timed puzzles? Or pushing crate puzzles? Or, heaven forbid, timed crate pushing puzzles?

Thanks!

Deledrius
02-10-2005, 03:43 AM
If I had to guess... I'd be surprised if your fears weren't met to some extent; it's pretty much a staple at this point. That said, however, one of the Cyantists did say that this next Myst would be lighter on puzzles than the recent installments, so you may just get your wish.

I personally don't mind pushing the odd crate now and then, but too much of anything gets tiring.

Squeekmore
02-10-2005, 12:18 PM
Well, I€m going to keep my fingers crossed and keep an eye on the game€s progress. The thing is I want to be excited over this game, I want to look forward to it €" but I€ve seen this happen with other franchises.

As I mentioned earlier, BS3, while it had some great elements, turned into a crate-pusher; I hear the upcoming Longest Journey is 3D with emphasis on being a cross-platform game; the 3D Escape from Monkey Island was the weakest of the series (in my opinion); and did anyone see what they did to Leisure Suit Larry?!

I€m not encouraged about M5 being €œlighter on puzzles than the recent installments€ €" that€s a big €œuh-oh€ warning to me.

Don€t get me wrong, I€m sure that many will like what the game turns out to be €" my concern is that it may not turn out to be a game that I like, and that would be a shame because Myst, so far, has been fantastic.

Mysthints
02-10-2005, 12:49 PM
I'm not so concerned about the "light on puzzles" thing. I think Cyan's trying to put out what they really want to do with Myst V...lots of gorgeous, believable worlds for us to explore. I think Rand wants to keep people from always remembering Myst as the games that made you want to put your fist through your monitor http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif. What puzzles there will be--I certainly hope won't be crate-pushers.

Nebodin
02-10-2005, 02:27 PM
They would have to be nuts to put in crate pushing or timed puzzles.

Of all the complaints that I have read about the recent games the most prolific would have to be about those sorts of puzzles. So many people hated them, and yet I can't remember anyone saying that they actually enjoyed them as a style of puzzle. I can't see any reason why they would want to put them in their game.

If they want that level of interaction with the environment, there are much better ways of doing it. Myst 4 succeeded with the cannonball rolling puzzle.

I think that the idea of having to move something from one place to another in a game is not a bad one, it just doesnt work if the only way to do so is to bump into them. Not only is it incredibly unrealistic its extremely difficult to manipulate your character in positions to do so.

I think the solution would be to do it the way Half-Life 2 did it. In that game you could pick objects up, carry them around, and place them in other locations. Granted it didnt look very realistic having an object hover in front of you, but it felt so much more natural.

If Uru was real life, if i wanted to put a bone on a pressure plate, i would pick up the bone carry it to the plate and put it down. If I wanted to set up a fish trap as a platform to get across some water, I would pick it up and move it there. I would never repeatedly walk into it until it was in approximately the right position. Moreover, in game it is SO much easier to manipulate things if you can pick them up.

Rant summary: If they want to have puzzles that involve us moving objects around in Myst 5, please let us pick objects up and carry them around instead of having to kick them :S

Zymmin
02-12-2005, 09:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Rant summary: If they want to have puzzles that involve us moving objects around in Myst 5, please let us pick objects up and carry them around instead of having to kick them <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree 100%, the bone kicking wasn't too bad and the traps in Eder Gira was a pain in the rear, but the worst though was the "waiting game".

PLEASE : NO TIMED PUZZLES!

BigBears2
02-12-2005, 11:45 AM
God that waiting puzzle was the dumbest thing I ever saw in a game of any kind! I wonder how many teens wanted to kill a parent that walked past and shut the computer down and said "if your not going to play it then shut it off". If I wanted to stare at the screen and not do anything I'd fire up a screen saver and watch that.

Please no waiting puzzles or timed puzzles of any kind including those of Myst IV. No puzzles like the spin the knob monkey puzzle. Also PLEASE no puzzles that require the player to have perfect pitch hearing and sound card.

But do give it a story, hints, clues. Don't drop us inside one giant pointless puzzle with a potatoe and a spoon that serve no purpose and no clue of what to do.

Coronagold
02-12-2005, 02:53 PM
If any are timed, please make the time element easy. I look forward to the logic (& anti-logic) of Myst puzzles. Severe timing stinks. The elevator tree in Myst island...I missed it a few times, but then got the swing of it my 3rd try. Timing like that I can deal with. But that Spire chair. Yikes!

Mowog
02-13-2005, 04:26 PM
I've said this before, but it bears repeating:

"Any task that's easy to do in real life should be easy to do in a simulation."

The Myst games try really hard to be realistic, and that's part of the fun. But the clumsy interactions required in Uru, and observed by many in Myst IV, really seem to run counter to the purpose of the games; to absorb the player in a believable adventure, to "become your world." I guess the designers did the best they could within time and budget restrictions, but the physical puzzles could still be distracting.

As for the timed puzzles, especially the "waiting game" required in PotS... If there had been more hinting within the game that such a wait was required, perhaps it would have been a little easier to tolerate. As it was, the puzzle design seemed pretty clumsy. The waiting certainly introduced a new element into puzzle-solving, but the length of the wait was hard to understand. If it hadn't been for the spoilers in the forum, I'd have had no idea that the waits were part of the game. I wouldn't have known if I was on the right track or not. Waiting a minute or two for the frog trap in Riven was fun. Waiting fifteen minutes for pellets to drop in Uru was ridiculous.

Coronagold
02-13-2005, 08:13 PM
Butter Queen - "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!"

I'd rather deal with the anti-logic of Kadish than deal with the anti-time of Yeesha. Lengthy times should not be a factor in adventure game puzzles. The focus should be Adventure, not sitting perfectly still for the time it takes to fly from Philly to Dulles. Anyone can look out the plane window & see a thousand sights that are far more interesting than staring at a wall in a 3D game that demands they shut up for 15 minutes, & also demands an upgrade for every newer game that comes out.

So, let's get back to the basics. Cut the New Age junk. Please.

Mowog
02-14-2005, 10:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I'd rather deal with the anti-logic of Kadish than deal with the anti-time of Yeesha. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You have to wonder if those waiting puzzles came about with the switch from multi-player to single-player. During the early days of Uru, there was much speculation on the forums that the puzzles coming up in Uru Live would in some cases require at least two people to solve. This struck many of us as a brilliant concept, and a very creative use of the multi-player format. So perhaps the waiting (at least for the pellet part) simply provided us the time to link to the lower cave, where originally we would have had a partner waiting to see what happened. I can imagine this was originally supposed to happen in realtime , but they had to engineer the "time delay" plotline just to give us time to get there and see the effects for ourselves. Sound reasonable? Just theorizing, of course.

Alahmnat
02-14-2005, 09:32 PM
I rather agree, a lot of the stuff in PotS was taken from Ages that were heavilly linked to multiplayer puzzles (imagine exploring Ahnonay with a group of other people, woo!), and so things needed to be changed - sometimes drastically - to get it working for single player. I think the whole experience would have been a lot less torturous if it had been multiplayer, and plus you'd have the advantage of talking with other people while you were there http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

Mowog
02-15-2005, 10:35 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> imagine exploring Ahnonay with a group of other people, woo! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>No kidding... think how much easier it would have been to figure out what the lights on the central tower meant, if we'd had several compatriots wandering around the island and causing the lights on the detector to change constantly, versus quabs who basically stayed put. I'd have made the connection much more quickly.

round3r
02-19-2005, 09:46 PM
sup guys newb here. Ive played all myst games and Uru, except for the original myst and realmyst. Riven is by far my favorite. I found the puzzles in 3,4 and Uru to be a bit laborious and boring and not having much to do with the story, (although i do like challenging puzzles). Ive read somewhere that myst5 will not have as much puzzles as the rest and will focus on more of the storyline, but who knows. I was disappointed in 3 and 4 and Uru to a lesser extent, i did like the 3d environment, but the time puzzle was a little silly, and wandering through these worlds with no people or other characters made for a lonely gaming experience. I will buy myst5 no matter what's in store either way. its been a decent series, and since i am normally a fan of multiplayer fps and mmofps (well theres only one, Planetside), the myst series has been really enjoyable.

I do have a question. What is the difference between myst and real myst graphically? i mean, is realmyst Myst's storyline with the graphic quality of say, exile? or was the original game just thrown onto a dvd? I would like to play the original, but not sure if i would enjoy it as much after experiencing the later games.

GadrenURU
02-19-2005, 10:37 PM
realMYST is very much worth its cost. not only are the Ages in realtime, they have weather effects, day/night, etc. it's very enjoyable to go through the Ages in realtime (just today, actually, i loaded up realMYST and went to Channelwood for a while).

also, there's a small Age at the end of the game that helps connect Myst and Riven together more.

Coronagold
02-20-2005, 06:34 AM
I agree with Alahmnat & Mowog. The ages in TPOTS were originally produced with MMO in mind. So the time element would've been lessened by chatting. Imagine 12 people all trying to swim to the tower at the same time. At least one of them would've made it. Then the rest......the rest.....holy moly. They'd be scattered through the A1 A2 A3 & A4 ages. I assume they could still communicate by PM or shouting. Would the 1 person getting to the tower affect the water current for the other players? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Dark Screen
02-20-2005, 09:10 AM
round3r, you need realMyst now! It's high quality. Also, you need to play the first game in the series, it's usually played first.

realMyst is the same story/game as Myst with a few things added BUT it's not just pictures you click though, it's 3d so you can run around (as GadrenURU said). Thats the point of it.
Myst = prerendered
realMyst = realtime 3d

There is also a version called Myst masterpiece edition. This edition just upgraded the prerendered graphics.

The version you need: realMyst.

round3r
02-20-2005, 02:52 PM
ok, thanks Dark I will check out realmyst. I didnt know it was 3d environment, sounds interesting.

And yeah Uru would have made much more sense and a heck of a lot more fun as a multiplayer game. Oh well http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

I always felt like the to d'ni expansion (i bought uru complete chronicles, i knew nothing of the uru live plans,) was a little odd and didnt seem to fit very well. Uru and Pots seemed like the same game. But the to d'ni xp where you're going around finding those little beacons all around was weird.

Not sure how taboo this question is on this forum, But Ive seen other adventure games similar to Myst, and was wondering what you all thought about them. The one that comes to mind is Mysterious journey' (i know what a title rip off), but how good are any of the games? I read the back of the box on that one and i guess you crashed on an alien planet but thats all i know.

GadrenURU
02-20-2005, 03:44 PM
Both expansions feel odd, because Uru had to be forced into a single-player package. But I actually liked To D'ni more...maybe it was because I actually was in Prologue, and so had already done those marker hunts.

As for Mysterious Journey, I've heard that the second one is alright, but don't bother with Schizm. I got it, and it's not worth the money...there's a paper-thin plot, bad live acting, with graphics that look like they were rendered by a newcomer to 3ds max, and puzzles that focus too much on mathemeatics then logic, and look impossible to solve without a walkthough.

Squeekmore
02-20-2005, 11:01 PM
round3r, there are two versions of the original Schizm, CD and DVD. I originally got the CD version and tried it then took it back and exchanged it for the DVD.
The CD version has very high compression, skips out a few puzzles and eliminates several cut-scenes. It makes for a not-so-good-looking game with little plot; however, the DVD version has much sharper graphics and the plot can be followed as the cut-scenes are still there.
It's a hard game but I enjoyed it.

Alahmnat
02-20-2005, 11:33 PM
In my opinion Schizm is one to skip unless you're either a math whiz or someone who likes playing the game with a walkthrough in-hand, regardless of the disc type (CD or DVD). Even with a double-sided DVD, the images were noticably compressed in many places, no doubt to make room for the animated transitions (another reason I hate animated transitions, they take up *way* too much space for their value). The clues are torturously obscure at times, and are occasionally only given once, in the form of a non-repeatable live-action sequence, which appear without warning, so if your sound was turned down a little too low or you weren't paying attention, you're going to have a really rough time solving the puzzle. And don't be fooled by the claim that it has freedom of movement in 360 degrees... while this is technically true I guess, it's not like Exile and Revelation where you can actually look anywhere in each node. Schizm allows you to pan between a collection of pre-set angles within each node with head-turning movements that are way too fast for my tastes.

I was fortunate enough to get the DVD version for free through a promo offer Dreamcatcher was running and I'm quite glad I didn't pay money for it, or I would've been rather annoyed. Those who complain about the lack of quality puzzle design in Revelation should go play Schizm and its predecessor, Reah... THAT is bad puzzle and story implementation http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

RaPhil
02-21-2005, 03:20 AM
I have to agree with Alahmnat about Schizm.

I have been getting better and better at puzzle solving with each of the Myst series and Uru, but with each of my 3 tries at Schizm (while trying to avoid a walkthrough) I have ended up giving up in disgust. Continuous referral to a walkthrough is no way to play a game - and that is how I felt I was going to finish with Schizm.

Mowog
02-24-2005, 04:48 PM
Wow, so it wasn't just me then! I also gave Schizm a try during the build-up to Uru's release. And like you who posted above, I was also put off by the highly compressed imagery and very obscure puzzles. I also had to use a walkthrough for ALL progress that I made (which wasn't much), and even after seeing the answers, there was none of the satisfaction that comes from taking part in a really cleverly designed puzzle. It was more like, "Yeah, alright. On to the next one." After a few more of those, I uninstalled it.

And it's too bad, really. You have to appreciate the effort that goes into developing a product like that. Schizm no doubt represented months out of the lives of real people, exhilaration at seeing their dream come together, deadline stress, all-nighters with pizza, etc. But the final product just didn't do it for me, and evidently not for many others either. I suppose it makes you appreciate the team at Cyan even more. Even the less impressive parts of Cyan's worlds were more interesting than Schizm.

Alahmnat
02-25-2005, 01:53 AM
Maybe it's just Poland and we don't have the right mindset for their productions http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

(Yes, the team that made Schizm is in Poland)

Mowog
02-25-2005, 01:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Yes, the team that made Schizm is in Poland <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>There's something to be said for that, really. One thing I actually did like about the game was the slightly unusual flavor; it didn't have the usual USA/Canadian/European feeling to it, and that made it feel more unique and other-worldly. Not that Poland is other-worldly! I spent a week there a few years back and it was amazing. But the Eastern European slant in Schizm was actually appealing. The puzzles, on the other hand... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

Kweaper
03-04-2005, 02:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
So... anyone know if there'll be any timed puzzles? Or pushing crate puzzles? Or, heaven forbid, timed crate pushing puzzles?

Thanks! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

God, lets hope not.
The Spider chair was a bit hard but i eventually got it.
As for BS:TSD i thought that was a great game but you rae rite about the crates, but there are other puzzles to the game then just pushing blocks around in that game. Besides most of the time you only pushed rock,crates or anything else in that game is to get to a higher place wich is about 60% of the game so i guess i see you point of just pushing things around in that game.