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XyZspineZyX
09-30-2003, 07:19 AM
wwii fighters had just one revolution spin for the elevator trim, 21 seeconds for one revolution is unrealistic

the elevator top position in the la7 and la5 is much lower than what can be set, this is unrealistic since a not newbee pilot would make sure to let the elevator work the full of its posibilities.

the dead zone option doesnt work,if you have a dead zone of 10 grades and move 6 grades the joystick to either side it should have a final imput of 1 grade but it has an imput of six

if im wrong prove it with arguments, since argumenting with laughs and insults but not with reasons as everybody did because for what i said about the tanks symbols just proves me to be right

XyZspineZyX
09-30-2003, 07:19 AM
wwii fighters had just one revolution spin for the elevator trim, 21 seeconds for one revolution is unrealistic

the elevator top position in the la7 and la5 is much lower than what can be set, this is unrealistic since a not newbee pilot would make sure to let the elevator work the full of its posibilities.

the dead zone option doesnt work,if you have a dead zone of 10 grades and move 6 grades the joystick to either side it should have a final imput of 1 grade but it has an imput of six

if im wrong prove it with arguments, since argumenting with laughs and insults but not with reasons as everybody did because for what i said about the tanks symbols just proves me to be right

XyZspineZyX
09-30-2003, 07:28 AM
http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_065a.html

XyZspineZyX
09-30-2003, 07:36 AM
make sure ya read the whole link ther raaid 2pgs

U.S INFANTRY 84-91

XyZspineZyX
09-30-2003, 07:47 AM
the 358 km of the la5 for cornering speed means that if you go under that speed youll be turning slower doesnt it

XyZspineZyX
09-30-2003, 07:52 AM
In order to prove that FB is unrealistic, you ought to make comparisons between the game and real life flying. I don't see that anywhere in your argument. You compare it to Jane's WWII Fighters, but this comparison is immaterial.

I agree that FB has unrealistic elements. I am prepared to agree with you, but you'll have to put forth a better argument--or any argument at all.

XyZspineZyX
09-30-2003, 08:05 AM
I don't care if trim took an hour to move.

Oleg needs to speed that puppy up.

Otherwise, this game will wither away as it has been since FB was released.

"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

XyZspineZyX
09-30-2003, 08:37 AM
a newbee paraglide will not stall however hard you pull the controls, it will just lose speed and start encreasing the drop rate, is definitly mistake forgiven.
a competition paraglide is made to perform to the limits, its not mistaken forgiven if you pull the controls harder than its limit it will stall and thats quite dangerous.
one of the diferences between a newbee paraglide and a competition is the effective run of the controls in a newbee paraglide the total run is far from its limit while in a competition one the limit will always be within the total run of the controls.
thats what happens with the la7 for example. You will find yourself at low speeds pulling the stick fully and realizing how far the stall limit is from the efective run of the elevator.
doesnt happen that in the k4 that seems to have the same efective run of the elevator than the la7 besides being a totally different plane. In the k4 however speed(as long as the wind forces avoid you to operate the elevator), however condition the stall limit will always be within the efective run of the elevator. All modeled planes should have the stall limit within the efective run limit of the elevator, just as il2 did

XyZspineZyX
09-30-2003, 08:59 AM
Brookt thanks a lot definitly you are a generous person

XyZspineZyX
09-30-2003, 09:37 AM
If the way the trim works is your main problem with FB, you are either very happy with it, or have only very vague notions of flying.

As for dead-zones, they're problematic. A noticeable deadzone is a reason for grounding an aircraft. You don't want them. It makes flying the thing very difficult.

The trim doesn't work correctly, that is right, but it doesn't in any PC sim that I know of (it can't work correctly with non-FF sticks. It is impossible, since the trim takes away the forces required to hold the stick in a certain position.) That difference, in my opinion, is far far more important than the time it takes to turn the wheel (mind you, a quickly reacting trim wheel makes the plane very difficult to trim, which makes the transport flight to and from the fight very tedious which is likely to make you fight far worse.)

If we are to talk about things that makes FB unrealistic, I think we can leave the trim out of it, it's such a minor thing. There are so many things that are more glaring.

* The seve undermodeling of undesired engine effects (torque, prop-wash, gyro, etc.)

* The totally absent modeling of directional instability on ground with tail draggers (well, many can't take off when the planes behave this nicely, so I guess there's a reason.)

* The complete lack of weather of any kind (weather in all its glory is very important in all flying, and affects the flight a lot.)

* The (near) complete lack of environmental effects on planes such as wing/stab/prop icing, carb icing (especially warm humid days, ironically.)

* The inability to select fuel tank (which has a major effect on the CoG and hence the aircrafts stability.)

* The difficulty of braking without skidding on wet grass.

* The rediculous attempt at modeling turbulence.
_
/Bjorn.

XyZspineZyX
09-30-2003, 10:09 AM
Give it up Raaid your never going to get trim on a slider back. Just use RayBanJockey's shift trim cheat if you just want a game and not a simulator.

Pilots of no kind at any time have used to trim to turn harder. Only during a rare an extreme circumstance when they could no longer move the control stick did trim have enough effect to pull them out of a hard dive, and then only if they were really lucky.

At 400+ mph and pulling close to 6 G's the pilots needed both hands on the stick, and their feet firmly planted just to hold the turn as the stick weighed over 100lbs by then.
The aircraft are already being flown past their structural limits.

This game has several FM flaws that need fixing however what you want is them to be further skewed from reality.

Another thing is the game does have weather effects. Simply no one uses them online probably due to lag, and offline only those with good systems can really enjoy the experience.

It takes some rudder work to keep them tracking straight down the runway. That classifies as directional instability, and in order to go straight one must constantly compensate for the prop torque.

These are very heavy aircraft with very powerful engines. I'd say torque effects are well modelled, and only when you know how to keep away from certain conditions will you keep from crashing on takeoff due to them.

There doesn't need to be any icing effects because in WWII when the weather was that bad they didn't fly. German aircraft didn't worry about carb icing as they were fuel injected. I'm also sure the carburators of the day had some form of reheater hose to the carb. Also due to the size of the engines used, and the carb's it would take some serious conditions for carb icing to occur.

It's true prop wash is not modelled at all. Gyro effects are though to see simply apply full rudder one direction and release. You get a nice wobbling nose until it stabilizes.

Also when flying in the rain it effects all of your control surfaces.

Except for bombers most of the fighters only had a single tank, and a few had dual tanks. They were positioned so either one filled the other as it was drained or both were drained simultaneously. Fuel tank selection only important in aircraft with wing tanks which all fighters lacked because their wings were full of ammo or simply too thin or small.

How would you be able to tell if the grass was wet or worry about skidding? Except for roads, and runways the ground is bumpy as heck.


I haven't notice any turbulance modelling unless you mean Force Feedback effects of flying through clouds, high speeds, and severe pitch movements. Big heavy high performance planes simply don't bump around in the air like a cessna.

Every take-off is optional, but every landing is mandatory!

XyZspineZyX
09-30-2003, 10:26 AM
if you use the trim at 0 speed nothing happens, if you use it at 500 km it produces a force in the stick-elevator the force will be bigger as bigger is the speed, and at a certain high enough speed the force will be bigger than a man´s force

when the stick freezes the use of the trim is a must

in fb they killed this feature because now you cant either use the trim to level nor to recover from dives. Which were the uses it had in reality

XyZspineZyX
09-30-2003, 11:19 AM
Hopperfly22 wrote:
- This game has several FM flaws that need fixing
- however what you want is them to be further skewed
- from reality.

Let's see...

- Another thing is the game does have weather effects.
- Simply no one uses them online probably due to lag,
- and offline only those with good systems can really
- enjoy the experience.

True indeed. However, lots of people do play off-line. Weather is also not just clouds and precipitation, it's wind. In IL2/FB we only have wind in terrible conditions, while I'm sure everyone has felt wind, even strong wind, in their face on a sunny day with clear sky.

- It takes some rudder work to keep them tracking
- straight down the runway. That classifies as
- directional instability, and in order to go straight
- one must constantly compensate for the prop torque.

No, that is not directional instability, that is yaw caused by (mostly) prop-wash. Directional instability from having the wheels in front of the CoG is very similar to ballancing a skid in a real-wheel driven car. You must be very careful not to skid around 180 degrees (ground loop.) You must start countering desired movement long before the desired turn direction is reached, or you'll swing past it. You cannot make the planes in IL2/FB gound loop even if you try to. This is typical nose-wheel behaviour, i.e. directional stability.

- These are very heavy aircraft with very powerful
- engines. I'd say torque effects are well modelled,
- and only when you know how to keep away from certain
- conditions will you keep from crashing on takeoff
- due to them.

Nope. The effects are modeled, so far so good. But they're severely toned down. The effect is roughly on par with what you experience in a 180hp Piper Archer. With 10 times the engine power I'd expect a lot more, aven when the plane weighs 3 times as much. Add to that the direcitonal instability and I'd expect very very much more indeed on takeoff.


- There doesn't need to be any icing effects because
- in WWII when the weather was that bad they didn't
- fly. German aircraft didn't worry about carb icing
- as they were fuel injected. I'm also sure the
- carburators of the day had some form of reheater
- hose to the carb.

Wrong. There are several occations when icing can occur, even when flying by the modern day VFR (visual flight rules,) and they flew in far worse conditions. Carb heater, yes, of course they did (those older machines that did indeed have carburators.) You only flick it on when needed, though, since hot air is less dense than cold air, which gives the engine less oxygen, which gives less power.

> Also due to the size of the
- engines used, and the carb's it would take some
- serious conditions for carb icing to occur.

No. Icing occurs (mostly) due to the pressure drop behind the throttle (pressure drop implies temperature drop,) and engine/carb size doesn't have anything to do with it.

- It's true prop wash is not modelled at all. Gyro
- effects are though to see simply apply full rudder
- one direction and release. You get a nice wobbling
- nose until it stabilizes.
-
- Also when flying in the rain it effects all of your
- control surfaces.

I can't say I've noticed, but you may be right.

- Except for bombers most of the fighters only had a
- single tank, and a few had dual tanks. They were
- positioned so either one filled the other as it was
- drained or both were drained simultaneously. Fuel
- tank selection only important in aircraft with wing
- tanks which all fighters lacked because their wings
- were full of ammo or simply too thin or small.

Wrong. Many fighters had wing tanks. The only exception I know of for certain is the P47. It is also of importance when using external drop tanks, which are available for a large number of aircraft in the game. We don't yet have the P51 as flyable, but we will (or so we are told,) and it was very sensitive about when to draw fuel from which tank due to the CoG changes.

- How would you be able to tell if the grass was wet
- or worry about skidding? Except for roads, and
- runways the ground is bumpy as heck.

Ah... that too. Grass strips are, IRL, far more bumpy than the ones we have in the game, and far less visible. A few hints on when grass is wet, though. If it's raining, they are wet. If it's early morning and you see fog patches in nearby valleys, it is wet.

- I haven't notice any turbulance modelling unless you
- mean Force Feedback effects of flying through
- clouds, high speeds, and severe pitch movements.
- Big heavy high performance planes simply don't bump
- around in the air like a cessna.

Severe pitch movements? I've seen shaking, and felt kicking in the stick. IRL I've never felt the stick being kicked due to turbulence. It is true that a heavy fighter is less sensitive than a light aircraft, but that doesn't mean it reacts in funny ways, it just means that the effect is toned down. Also, unlike the cessna you compare with (I take it you mean a GA C-172 or similar, and not the biz-jets,) the fighters love to roll.
_
/Bjorn.

XyZspineZyX
09-30-2003, 11:54 AM
"-In IL2/FB we only have
- wind in terrible conditions, while I'm sure everyone
- has felt wind, even strong wind, in their face on a
- sunny day with clear sky."

Sure... I can't remember the last time i flew and there was 0 wind, let alone all of it down the runway for example. Plus SFC winds are usually different and weaker than medium level winds, certainly upper level winds. I don't think this is modelled, although i can see why.


-"You must be very careful not
- to skid around 180 degrees (ground loop.)"

Particularly dangerous in taildraggers, on landing a definate problem.

Also, the gyro effect when lifting the tailwheel seems not to be modelled, but i could be wrong.

Hopperfly wrote:

-- There doesn't need to be any icing effects because
-- in WWII when the weather was that bad they didn't
-- fly"

I'm not sure that's true.. I get the impression that ILs flew in some severe weather, though i can't back that up

and anyway as swingman said, on a humid day, entering cloud above the 0 degree isotherm (as just one example) can results in all sorts of problems, both for the engine and airframe.

Hopperfly wrote:
-- Big heavy high performance planes simply don't bump
-- around in the air like a cessna.

Oh yes they do. Effects of trubulence are more drastic at higher speed. Ever been down a valley at 420kts? Some serious bumping there, as much as in a light aircraft.

Swingman - the mark of a real pilot. What type and hours?

Sm

XyZspineZyX
09-30-2003, 12:10 PM
Stickmonkey1 wrote:

- Swingman - the mark of a real pilot. What type and
- hours?

100h30m exactly (just turned page in the logbook.)

The vast majority in PA28. A little over 20 hours in Socata Rallye (castoring nose wheel) and only 40 minutes in Bellanca Super Decathlon (the ride of my life(!) and also my only tail dragger experience.)
_
/Bjorn.

XyZspineZyX
09-30-2003, 12:13 PM
I agree the is no wind in FB. Heck there's not even a windsock on the runway. Am I taking off into the wind or with a tail wind?

I agree the tailskidding while present is under modelled. Mainly because you just plop up on a wingtip until you get it under control.

Carburator size does matter as carb icing is a matter of ice blocking the fuel jets in the carb. The larger the jets the more severe the icing condition must be to cause it. Also carb icing has a lot to do with gas. Where a modern small engine on pump gas can have icing problem even on a hot sunny florida day 100LL avgas will not as it doesn't vaporise as much.

Carb heat in general is used any time you make a large reduction in power. Then again it is a misunderstood principle by many pilots even today. True they did fly in bad weather but not that bad. It was nearly impossible to find the target or navigate.

With ForceFeedback while flying in rainy stormy conditions the plane is bumped all around, and the stick jerks constantly.

True a real grass field is rougher then again it's not so much as bumpier but more of a vibration. I know as I've flown off many a grass field.

Even on full real the game is docile in some areas. I think thats due to keeping it flyable for most people. Not to many folks except for people who can fly or are determined to fly the sim want to spend a week just trying to succesfully take off, and land. I would personnaly enjoy the added difficulty. However I see lots of people online who can't find the runway to take off much less land on it.

All in all it's still a great sim though, and I've seen what it takes to get true realism from a computer. Or should I say a room full of computers.

Every take-off is optional, but every landing is mandatory!

XyZspineZyX
09-30-2003, 12:14 PM
-6 hours on Grob Vigilant (powered glider) tail dragger

-20 hours on C152 (scarred for life after the door opened at 5000')

-80 hours Grob Tutor trainer with the RAF

-2.5 hours Hawk T1, pax flights - fantastic!

XyZspineZyX
09-30-2003, 12:29 PM
Over 384 hours in a Cessna 152
16 hours in a weight shift quicksilver before someone else crashed it (hangar plane).

A few hours in an old 90hp cub wanna-be hombuilt tandem seat taildragger. Pure fun!

Also a few odd and ends in Tomahawks, and Cessna 172's. Also a number of non-logged non-existant hours in the Marine Corps F-18 training simulator at the NAS in New Orleans.



Every take-off is optional, but every landing is mandatory!

XyZspineZyX
09-30-2003, 12:44 PM
All the "missing" elements that so many wish for in IL2/FB will be available...once we all have Crays in our homes....

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

<center><FONT color="red">[b]BlitzPig_EL</FONT>[B]<CENTER> http://old.jccc.net/~droberts/p40/images/p40home.gif
</img>.
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XyZspineZyX
09-30-2003, 12:55 PM
The comment that trim cannot be used to correct a dive where the controls are heavy is, I'm afraid, wrong.

I have used trim several times to pull from a dive and to balance the plane better (ie to reduce constant manual input) when one wing is damaged and thus generating less lift.

In the Foxhound's Kennel is...

Duron 1.2Ghz, Win XP Home-SP1, 512MB PC133, Ti4800SE, SB5.1, Dx9.0b, FB1.1b

XyZspineZyX
09-30-2003, 01:19 PM
I thought raaid was quitting? No offense fella but, well, seems kinda strange to see you posting still.

http://www.endlager.net/fis/pix/banners/fis_banner_07.gif


She turned me into a newt, but I got better.

XyZspineZyX
09-30-2003, 01:24 PM
Because your RBJ and making many new names and building up posts to try and make the trim unrealistic. Mods can see your ips and windows id

http://www.freewebs.com/leadspitter/lead.txt
Good dogfighters bring ammo home, Great ones don't. (c) Leadspitter

XyZspineZyX
09-30-2003, 02:10 PM
ElAurens wrote:
- All the "missing" elements that so many wish for in
- IL2/FB will be available...once we all have Crays in
- our homes....


You got that Right! Stop the frame thieves! All the elemnets in this thread are good enough to play w/o needing a super computer. BTW make the dust optional! it make ny system go to a crawl in coops!

When you take off ease the throttle fwd applying more till the plane is accelerating smoothly. Always applying enough
rudder to correct yaw.

Yes you can ground loop a plane in FB. When was the last tinme you tried the IL-153 or the IL-16? Have also gl'ed a 47 too.

Weather? who here has a P6 and 512MB card to to this? NOT ME! Go ahead make it un-play-abel to most of us w/o deep pockets! just like lomac

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid79/p9141f290fa1c1c59a2dc382c77af21f3/fb1a8321.jpg


Lead Whiner for the P-47D-40, M and N and Hvars

Hawgdog
09-30-2003, 04:24 PM
raaaid wrote:

- if im wrong prove it with arguments, since
- argumenting with laughs and insults but not with
- reasons as everybody did because for what i said
- about the tanks symbols just proves me to be right


what the hell did you just say?

I thought you were leaving pathetic little weenie
No, really, didn't you say you were thru with FB?
Is your memory as tactless as your provocative posts?
You suck as a troll, you fly noob planes and then complain about such drivel
Wait, weren't you supposed to be done with FB?

bwaa haaa haaa haaa, I enjoy your trolling posts as much as RBJ.



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adlabs6
09-30-2003, 07:14 PM
Sniper762x51 wrote:
- When you take off ease the throttle fwd applying
- more till the plane is accelerating smoothly. Always
- applying enough
- rudder to correct yaw.
-
- Yes you can ground loop a plane in FB. When was the
- last tinme you tried the IL-153 or the IL-16? Have
- also gl'ed a 47 too.

Groundloops have nothing to do with engine torque. It's a function of the center of gravity. I've never groundlooped a plane in FB.

GROUND LOOP INSTRUCTIONS:
1)accelerate taildragger to 15 to 30 knots. Close throttle.
2)apply rudder or tailwheel steering to one side.
3)hang on.

If the center of gravity gets out from behind the main gear during a roll, then the plane will rotate. If it happens during deceleration, it will rotate faster. If it happens at speed and deceleration (during landing) it is incredibly quick and powerful.

Anyway, this thread is an interesting read. Many good points. But I'm convinced that many of these issues discuessed here simply never will be a part of the FB world, and perhaps not even part of the next Maddox sim. Mr. Maddox said it best himself:

"The problem of you that you don't understand the whole term - the game(and especially sim) that could be sold enough that to cover expences and finally gives the profit that to make next one better."

I'm to the point of thinking that it really is as simple as that. More and more realism is only going frustrate some players. Consider those who still can't use CEM, how would they feel if they looped during every landing? Or if they had to use *realistic* engine management, and actually had to memorize settings tables, and keep the engine at peak performance to fight, all while avoiding damagine the engine? They either won't play, or won't play with those who DO enable such difficulty, and this will only hurt the game and it's developers.

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XyZspineZyX
09-30-2003, 07:32 PM
Good information! Dead horses I am afraid.

The trim wheel in the PA28-181 I fly is a piece of C$@#. It takes winds and winds when transition from the downwind to crosswind and finals..along with flap deployment. On a go-around it is a bear. The electric trim motor went out long time ago the FBO won't fix it.

Maybe RBJ has a solution. As to the trim effects in FB...I use it as is on a slider...warts and all! I love to fly. Real life and in FB. Once a junkie always a junkie.

Now ... continue on with the beating of the dead horses.



Happy hunting and check six!

Tony Ascaso, RN

XyZspineZyX
09-30-2003, 09:06 PM
that selling stuff definitly explains why stall is much more difficult and less dangerous in fb than in il2, i remember many people complaining about stalling in il2.

is also that the reason because they slowed the trim down? because you can see that in the p40 the trim just have one revolution
did they change it because most people considered too difficult using the trim in combat?

XyZspineZyX
09-30-2003, 09:29 PM
I play all sorts of games. Besides IL-2 FB, which I really enjoy, I have been playing on the Xbox Sega's new "realistic" hockey game. I can easily place this hockey game into the category of being a simulation, but go on to point out dozens of flaws and slight departures from real hockey that this game contains.

Folks, please choose your words more carefully when posting. To say this game, or any simulation of whatever game you are mentioning, is not realistic because of such specific details is completely unfair.

This simulation must be limited to the reality that it is a COMPUTER game. Despite all the work that could be done, and all the advancements that may happen with computer technology in the future, there is no way the WW2 experience can be completely duplicated.

Next time please say you found this detail or that aspect lacking. Please stop dismissing the game as not being a reasonable (and fun) simulation of the Eastern Front.

Note to self: stop reading this forum so much, it is taking MY fun from this realistic simulation of WW2 flight combat GAME.

XyZspineZyX
09-30-2003, 09:40 PM
RayBanJockey wrote:
- I don't care if trim took an hour to move.
-
- Oleg needs to speed that puppy up.
-
- Otherwise, this game will wither away as it has been
- since FB was released.
-
- "The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace
- said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was
- still a newbie.
- news update (http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.p
-)

Whither away?What game are you playing?Between Ubi.com and Hyperlobby on the weekends I've seen over 1200 peeps all playin at once.At least 300 people in hyperlobby 24 hrs. a day another 100 in ubi.com 24 hrs. a day.And what is all this complaining about the LA series aircraft?All the pilots know its a noober plane.Fly it if you wish but it will never get you the respect any other plane would.It is notoriously known as the OLEG Noobie plane.LA-7's are the easiest planes to fly,made of some kind of impenetrable metal,climbs like a beast,fast as hell,turns great.It's just too EZ.Well, too easy for me anyway. hehe

XyZspineZyX
09-30-2003, 09:42 PM
You trim for an airspeed, not an altitude or attitude.

Just an FYI for everybody.

Hawgdog
09-30-2003, 09:45 PM
LeadSpitter_ wrote:
- Because your RBJ and making many new names and
- building up posts to try and make the trim
- unrealistic. Mods can see your ips and windows id


might as well spit on tips.
They dont care.
I really expected my post on his promoting software piracy would have at least gotten locked....guess not.
pffft, only the white guys get banned /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

<center></script>The original HawgDog, dont be fooled by fneb imitations
~W~ cause S! has become USELESS
When you get to hell, tell 'em Hawgdog sent you
http://users.zoominternet.net/~cgatewood/assets/images/sharkdog.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-30-2003, 09:47 PM
raaaid wrote:
- wwii fighters had just one revolution spin for the
- elevator trim, 21 seeconds for one revolution is
- unrealistic
-
- the elevator top position in the la7 and la5 is much
- lower than what can be set, this is unrealistic
- since a not newbee pilot would make sure to let the
- elevator work the full of its posibilities.
-
- the dead zone option doesnt work,if you have a dead
- zone of 10 grades and move 6 grades the joystick to
- either side it should have a final imput of 1 grade
- but it has an imput of six
-
- if im wrong prove it with arguments, since
- argumenting with laughs and insults but not with
- reasons as everybody did because for what i said
- about the tanks symbols just proves me to be right
-
-


FB is unrealistic because I cannot feel the pain of the bullets hitting me in the cockpit

Also because I cannot feel the wind in the I16.

It is unrealistic because I am not terrified in the cockpit when I get near the enemy.

It is unrealistic because when turning in a life or death duel with an equal or better fighter I do not pi$$ my pants without realizing it.



Oh yeah, its a simulation.


Even though the trim wheel (RL) may move faster than it does in FB, the response of the airplane is not immediate. It takes a little time for the plane to react to the trim, and the way it behaves in FB is a concession. It works just fine, as long as you are familiar with your plane, and know how many clicks you need at "X" airspeed and prop pitch.


Now, uninstall FB if you don't like it. You can always download another game. Right?



Tsisqua


http://www.uploadit.org/files/010903-nedChristie.jpg

Tsalagi Asgaya Equa!

XyZspineZyX
09-30-2003, 09:54 PM
Well I'm sure someone here didn't realise that, but trimming for an airspeed is the same as trimming to fly hands off. Although nobody takes their hands off the yoke lol.

I'm just trying to point ou that the way FB does trim is unrealistic, and thats why they slowed it. To prevent or try to prevent people from using it on a slider.

I also don't believe anyone has said trim cannot be used to recover from a dive. However it's only necessary when the stick no longer works. As even a little stick movement control wise is far superior to cranking the trim full in any direction.

Thats why it's called trim, and not "Turn adjuster".

Explaining how one thing works in an aircraft is just ridiculous unless you want to write a 3 page engineering paper.

I'm going to cease discussion of this trim nonsence and go back to playing the game. I haven't seen any bat turning yet and until I do I'm going to keep playing it.

Every take-off is optional, but every landing is mandatory!

XyZspineZyX
09-30-2003, 10:26 PM
I thought he left.

Guess CS is too realistic?

Oh wait a minute......it isn't.

XyZspineZyX
10-01-2003, 12:15 AM
I think he had an a/hole transplant recently.

Clearly his new a/hole is rejecting him and it's causing him a little discomfort, so he doesn't know where to go.

My sincere advice is to go back to the surgeon and get his money back.

http://www.endlager.net/fis/pix/banners/fis_banner_07.gif


She turned me into a newt, but I got better.