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View Full Version : Streaming Ads in Games - opinions



Pest_AWC
03-16-2006, 08:51 AM
Will the next Rainbow Six game have realtime streaming and changing ads in the game?

This is a concept that started with the release of the movie Top Gun on VHS. They placed a Pepsi ad at the begining of the movie and this allowed them to release the movie at $20 instead of $60-$70 as was the norm back then. This was a win-win...more people bought the movie and Pepsi got a ton of exposure.

With Lockdown, they placed changing ads in the game where they do not make any sense. The game was also a modified console game. They still charged the full $50 for the game and didn't pass on the savings to the consumer and didn't help the advertisers by selling more games... a lose-lose situation.

My opinion on this is that if UBI wants to put ads in games they would be better off either reducing the price of the game or greatly increase the content of the game. The ads should be placed in locations that make sense and not ruin the immersion of people in the environment.

Perseus_AWC
03-16-2006, 08:58 AM
if it's done right, I am ok with it.
If I see a real Coke can, or a poster on the side of the bus advertising Wil and Grace I am cool with that too, but if its a damn intro or when I log off it decides to show a fewpages of ads, well, then I would have to punch Chappy's monitor.

MrVeLLu
03-16-2006, 09:35 AM
I don't mind seeing normal ads in games (R6 for example) on vending machines, walls, signs etc., where they usually are in real life. If I see a "powered by Ping Pong from Taiwan" sticker on someone's helmet, I'm not happy.

Also something like this is totally not acceptable: "PLEASE TAKE A MOMENT TO VIEW OUR PRODUCTS BEFORE ENTERING THE MISSION! 30 SECONDS LEFT... 29 SECONDS LEFT..."

Gives me the creeps.

KungFu_CIA
03-16-2006, 10:15 AM
I think there is a fine line between immersion -- having real life brand names on things in the environment like Coke cans and billboards -- And blatant in-game advertising...

The latter I will not stand for simply because one of the reasons I play games is to get away from the corporate "sell! sell! sell!" mentality we are bombarded with every waking our of our 21st Century lives.

Also, in-game advertising is SPYWARE any way you cut it because you think the advertisers are going to just be content with showing you an ad? No. They want to know how LONG you looked at the ad and what KINDS of ads you look at longer.

Given the average demographic of video gamers -- or, rather, the assumed demographic -- This means we will see more and more Maxim, FHM, Axe, and Clearisil ads just "miraculously" appearing on billboards and other in-game props which again, is unacceptable because it is balatant advertising and not in-game immersion and the fact they are gathering statistical info. about me through my computer which is illegal (the loop hole of course is the licence agreement everyone has to agree to when we install the game, but that doesn't mean I have to like it).

Relenquish
03-16-2006, 10:19 AM
Give me an awesome game I love playing, ill put up with a few ads, blatant or not.

Brettzies
03-16-2006, 11:28 AM
I noticed both Lockdown and Swat4 doing this.

As it is implemented right now, I think it is grossly bad for the game from an Artistic standpoint. So far the ads of William Shatner on the Histroy Channel stick out like a soar thumb. They TOTALLY bring you out of the game world. At least the GR:AW ones fit with the overall asthetic. Looks weird in Swat4 as well.

It's kind of cool that they update, but if they do it, they have to implement it better so that they look like they are part of the game environment, and not some stuck on flat texture poster which is from "another world." In fact, I think they should have to get one of UBI's artists to approve that it keeps with the game design.

So far it looks really, really, really, ....really....BAD.

Malleus.
03-16-2006, 12:18 PM
Originally posted by Brettzies:
So far it looks really, really, really, ....really....BAD.

Agreed. Maybe it would be possible to do this without breking the immersion, but what I've seen so far was ... bad. Not to mention that the companies don't use ads to lower the price of the game ... at least I haven't heard about such thing yet.
If the ads fit in the game world, and they make the game cheaper, it's okay. Any other combination is unacceptable (for me).

Thump248th
03-16-2006, 04:31 PM
I'm fine with it as long as it fits within the enviornment and would be things that we run into daily. If anything this would add to the immersion because it wouldn't just be "super duper cocacola" adds but something we actually can relate to. HOWEVER, if it is horribly placed or in any way takes away from the immersion so that they could get one more buck from another company, then it's a nogo.

SODsniper
03-16-2006, 04:43 PM
Since R6-5 is 10+ years in the future, a Minority Report style of advertising would look kewl.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif



BILLBOARD AD <after Retinal Scan>
"Hay Ding, want to get a nifty new silencer for your weapon!? Shop at Guns R Us!"

FI_FlimFlam
03-16-2006, 07:48 PM
Currently it's easy to block them. But as soon as the majority of gamers start blocking them, then there will be another method of hooking into the servers.

Like it or not the advertising is here to stay. It's FREE EASY money for UBI. It's a recurring revenue stream after the inital sale of the game. They will continue to do it and perhaps refine in ways very similar to spyware/adware and some viri to keep users from blocking it. Then it will take a third party firewall or router based solution to block the known IP addresses for it. It will only get worse - just like those cheesy product placements in movies. It's easy money and UBI will take it (heck most developers/producers would).

Woosy
03-16-2006, 09:31 PM
I don't mind adverts in-game as long as they are done true to life, in SCCT they had Sam Fisher eating Airwaves, it got my little nephew asking what do they taste like and we brought some, now he and I like them. In GRAW for console there is huge boards with Axis on they are well done imo though I do hope they will advertise womens deodrants too. There is also adverts on the side of busses where you would expect to see them IRL none out of place that I saw. Those adverts I don't mind. It's when you see adverts advertising games like how Lockdown did for GRAW, I don't like that.

If done right like GRAW it could make the game pretty cool for each time you play I know some people don't like it I love it, it's not always about big things but little things like that.

XGN_King_George
03-16-2006, 09:55 PM
i'm not a fan of these ads at all. the way i feel we're bombarded with ads on a daily basis everywhere we go. on tv, radio, billboards as we're driving, on the subway and buses as we're commuting to and from work. why should we be subjected to them in game? what's the benefit in it for us besides being subjected to more advertising spam?

subzero1900
03-16-2006, 10:20 PM
no ****, this is a game

definition of video games (my)

To escape reality, to come to a comfortable place undisturbed by Real world Problems or products. To leave all Traces of this world (earth, Ruled by Corporations) behind and enjoy sneaking up on a terrorist of this Virtual world and be able to break laws that a splinter cell has, to take out terrorists holding prisioners hostage in a bank, to fly WW2 planes that no longer exsist in working form and shoot down other pilots.

NOT TO BE BOMBARDED WITH ****. NO, When im sitting down in my PC chair after spending ($50.00 US) hard earned Cash on a product The last ****ing thing to run through my mind is damn...I should go out and BUY some ****ty deoderant or a special type of ****ing coke-cola. What are the game developers trying to tell me? Give a **** less about Their Expensive product and waist all my Cash on Products that they dont profit on?....

(so I encourage everyone here when they see Streaming Ads in games to instead invest your hard earned elsewhere than to escape reality seeing as all these game developers don't need to eat,sleep,and live. because all they are telling us is to show less focus on the game and more on the products.)



anyone know how to stop these damn streaming ads? (the posters in Splinter cell were fine...untill they changed from the base posters)

subzero1900
03-16-2006, 10:23 PM
wow, don't you wish we had filters now? instead of reviewing every time some one says the word ****,****,damn,****,***,***get and many other choice favorites

**** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** ****
**** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** ****
**** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** ****
**** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** ****
**** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** ****
**** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** ****
**** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** ****
**** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** ****
**** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** ****
**** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** ****
**** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** ****

subzero1900
03-16-2006, 10:25 PM
off topic...how do you guys like the "adminstraitor approveal" system whenever you use a word that would normally be *'ed out?....they will have fun reviewing my **** F words copied a few times over instead of using the filter system with better coding

SODsniper
03-17-2006, 04:39 AM
Originally posted by FI_FlimFlam:
Currently it's easy to block them. But as soon as the majority of gamers start blocking them, then there will be another method of hooking into the servers.

Like it or not the advertising is here to stay. It's FREE EASY money for UBI. It's a recurring revenue stream after the inital sale of the game. They will continue to do it and perhaps refine in ways very similar to spyware/adware and some viri to keep users from blocking it. Then it will take a third party firewall or router based solution to block the known IP addresses for it. It will only get worse - just like those cheesy product placements in movies. It's easy money and UBI will take it (heck most developers/producers would).


As was mentioned before, the video release of TOP GUN started the trend. It's purchase price was considerably lower due to the advertising.

If UBI is using IN GAME advertising, shouldn't the price of the game drop??

Malleus.
03-17-2006, 05:40 AM
Originally posted by SODsniper:
If UBI is using IN GAME advertising, shouldn't the price of the game drop??

SCCT had some ugly, pathetic, annoying advertising, and the game was still about $50. So the aswer is: "It should, but it doesn't happen".

FI_FlimFlam
03-17-2006, 06:09 AM
None of the recent games had reduced cost to the consumer because of in game advertising. Again, publishers see this as a post purchase recurring revenue stream at virtually no cost (very little to implement into the game). Unless they made an official stance to keep the price down as a result of ingame advertising it simply won't happen. And we know how likely that will be be.....

DreamMarine
03-17-2006, 07:00 AM
A certain degree of ads is ok, as long as it does not FORCE me into something and does not conflict with my immersion.

I pay good money for my game, so I want to be treated as a valued customer who they want to satisfy... not as a sheep which is just playing their games to get bombed by ads!!!

There are people who don't care a bit about ads as long as they get products cheaper. That's OK. But I prefer to pay a little bit more in exchange for no ads!

BTW, I sometimes entertain suspicion, that the most part of the money companies need for developing a game is exactly THAT money, they want to get back by ads! It's paradox, isn't it? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

If a company develops a really good game, I assume that most people hear of it just because everybody is talking and advertising about it. You don't need a large budget for advertising that increases the costs for the development drastically.

But after all, I am no insider of the game industry. So i might be wrong! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

DreamMarine

Woosy
03-17-2006, 07:49 AM
Originally posted by Malleus.:
SCCT had some ugly, pathetic, annoying advertising, and the game was still about $50. So the aswer is: "It should, but it doesn't happen".

It was cheaper then normal price it was 30 dollars in the us at release on the 29th of march at EB, and in the uk 18 pounds which cheaper then normal games which can be 24.99 and 34.99 in the uk. I remember because, people where suprised on the SCCT board. I myself liked the adverts, people complained about the amd and nokia screen savers on computers, I thought it was different better then having some made up company or an advert for rainbow six, plus they changed over time.

Malleus.
03-17-2006, 08:11 AM
It was $50 (10000 HUF) here in Hungary... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/354.gif

Woosy
03-17-2006, 08:38 AM
Where did you buy it from though, highstreet or online? The highstreet is extortionate prices, online I use CD WOW or sendit which ship to any part of the world apart from maybe antartica.. If you had brought it from one of those it would of cost you 6,760.90 HUF. Though I'm not really sure if thats much cheaper for you? Do what i do shop around usualy they are soo cheap, even GRAW at the moment for pc on pre-order and will be at release is 6,760.90 HUF, don't pay over the odds.

Malleus.
03-17-2006, 08:52 AM
Geez. Yes, that's much cheaper. Thanks for the info. The prices are usually fair where I buy games, but looks like I better watch out for exceptions...

Brettzies
03-17-2006, 09:56 AM
After reading what some of you have said, this is completely ridiculous. Games have never had ads till recently, but more importantly, it doesn't reduce the price at all. x360 games are still $60, PC games are usually 45-50. If you shop around, sure you can get them cheaper, but really as consumer, who already paid for something, we're just being takend advantage of. I don't see it ever stopping though, as soon as they get a foot hold on something, it just grows.

At first I didn't care too much, but the more I think about it, ads are designed to be "in your face," so I cannot see them being subdued and unintrusive to the game experience. I only see it getting worse, especially with the ones that update.

Woosy
03-17-2006, 10:30 AM
Ads don't reduce the price no, but depending where you buy the game from it's cheap. Everyone should shop around and save money, its common sence, it's why us girls take hours to shop. An example of the last 5 games I've brought.

Bf2 20
SWAT4 18
SCCT 18
GRAW (pre-order)18
The Regiment 18

Adverts can be implemented in games so they arn't over intrusive some games do the opposite and be in your face like SWAT4. Like I said with GRAW on the xbox360 there wasn't an advert I saw out of place, unlike SWAT4 which is in almost every room.

The posters in GRAW where on billboards and on the side of busses where you would see them IRL, it adds somthing to the game and makes it feel a little more realistic. What is odd when there are adverts put in the game that are fake... people complain and say "What the hell is chewy ice white?, I've neve heard of that IRL" Then you put real adverts from the offline world and people complain. I agree if it intrusive its a no, done right I'm fine with it.

Another example is Counter-Strike there are sites giving players the choice to change the branding on vending machines to real life ones, such as Dr pepper,coke etc When i used to play it I installed them, as it was better then the fake branding, the same happened with computers changing them from dell to alienware.

Brettzies
03-17-2006, 11:36 AM
Originally posted by Woosy:
Ads don't reduce the price no, but depending where you buy the game from it's cheap. Everyone should shop around and save money, its common sence, it's why us girls take hours to shop. An example of the last 5 games I've brought.
The price isn't so much of a problem for me, except when the game isn't worth it. Integrating them isn't bad either when done right. It's just that, as a gamer and consumer, are you getting anything more from a full price purchase? Is UBI getting anything more with the "adverts?"

I don't mind paying regular price on new releases because I actually do like to support the industry and artists that work on games. But, I'm not exactly exicted about supporting the front office because ads, which previously were not needed, put a little extra "bling blong" in their pockets. I don't really think they need them to make ends meet, but pretty soon, they'll be banking on these ads and they will become part of the anticipated budget. What more do you get as a gamer, a better game? That's subjective.

Relenquish
03-17-2006, 11:52 AM
I never notice the ads in swat 4. I know thats probably because I dont pay enough attention, but I really dont see the big problem. Ads dont effect game play. Fact is there is worse things Ubi could do than include ads.

If it makes them more money, all the more incentive to make a good game that sells well AND has good replayability.

Ads may not be every1s cup of tea, but imo its extra money for ubi with no real effect on us. And that, for a niche market, is good news.

Just thought I'd give the other side of the argument. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

(edit) Like many of you guys say, the only way to speak to ubi is with money.

Best Regards

subzero1900
03-17-2006, 02:11 PM
any one know how to disable these adds?

(ruining my SPCT with William Shatner...really, who the Fudge would save a poster of william shatner on their PC as the screen saver?)

FI_FlimFlam
03-17-2006, 03:52 PM
all you had to do was ask:
here you go http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/8081011862...611064714#6611064714 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/8081011862/m/1511059614/r/6611064714#6611064714)

BigCat75
03-17-2006, 09:31 PM
You are ALL missing the real issue around the controversy. The adds are not the problem.

read this s l o w l y:
what makes this spyware WRONG, is that they use YOUR internet connection that YOU pay for to make them money, as well as use your PC as if it was their own, to manipulate as they see fit. This is the biggest thing to happen on the publishers' side of things in a long time, yet you notice how "hush" they are about it? It's UNETHICAL.
Don't be sheep, they're counting on that. Don't stand for it.

doubleTAP5.56mm
03-17-2006, 10:02 PM
Bigcat is correct. The problem isn't the adds in the games, the problem is the way they use your paid-for bandwidth to monitor you, edit files on your pc and download to your pc, all for their profit.
It's plain wrong, and they keep it very low profile, and claim that gamer polls are positive toward the "SERVICE". Because they ask questions like "would you prefer real adds for realism", instead of asking "would you like us to monitor every aspect of your online activity, edit your files, and download to your pc while you pay for the connection we need to do so?"
SCUM.

Woosy
03-18-2006, 12:35 AM
There is no HUSH about it at all, the information is on the net for everyone to see. If you go to http://www.massiveincorporated.com which is the company that puts adverts in to games and Ubisoft use, it goes over the privacy. It tells you what information they retrieve from you and where it goes, it was very clear. It's like taking an online survey without having to fill out a form and being totaly anon about it. It doesn't edit or delete any files that are personal to me, and the data they do get is protected by privacy laws.

SODsniper
03-18-2006, 04:30 AM
Originally posted by Woosy:
There is no HUSH about it at all, the information is on the net for everyone to see.

My question would be, is it part of the game package for everyone to see?

Is the purchaser of the game notified that their bandwidth will be used for advertising?

Is the purchaser of the game notified that that personal information will be sent to company<s> other than UBI?

That is where that info should be stated. If it isn't, then I believe that is where the "HUSH" part comes in.

Woosy
03-18-2006, 09:19 AM
It will be in the EULA that says it has adverts in and can stream them, I don't have my hands on the SWAT 4 CD to reinstall and check the EULA for patch 1.1 where they where introduced, but researching online says it's changed to say that it now has adverts and will stream them. It will be in the patch EULA as it requires the user to accept the new privacy policy. If it's read like that, it's obvious it will use bandwitdh. The only thing that can get in a game without being in the EULA is copyprotection, and the reason for that is beacuse it's part of the game data.

KungFu_CIA
03-18-2006, 09:22 AM
Originally posted by Woosy:
There is no HUSH about it at all, the information is on the net for everyone to see. If you go to http://www.massiveincorporated.com which is the company that puts adverts in to games and Ubisoft use, it goes over the privacy. It tells you what information they retrieve from you and where it goes, it was very clear. It's like taking an online survey without having to fill out a form and being totaly anon about it. It doesn't edit or delete any files that are personal to me, and the data they do get is protected by privacy laws.

No offense, but privacy laws go out the window when big marketing and data collection companies are offered bou-coup bucks by companies like UBI and others for this kind of information (even if they have to pay for the service in the first place; the cost is off-set by the actual data they then have ACCESS to even if unofficially)... Let alone, all the online identity theft and hacking going on around the world (not just the U.S. or North America).

In the digital age, one should know better than to have anything confidential or invaluable on a PC... Especially, hooked up to the world wide web, but this is beside the point. As others have said, this IS spyware and I don't like it one bit and also because there is no benefit past on to the consumer other than us being marketing corporations data farms like others have already said.

Vert22110
03-18-2006, 09:24 AM
If there is indeed a custom level editor/SDK, I would gladly re-download every map if someone removed all streaming ads/posted ads.

Woosy
03-18-2006, 09:54 AM
So you're saying Ubisoft break the online privacy laws then? And are doing ilegal business practices? Because if so why stop there, they could take the information you and I have now signed up to on their forum which is worth more then game data and sell it. They collect data already by how many people are playing a certain game by logins and cd-keys. I believe you can ask ubisoft how their privacy policy is run for adverts, and if you want your data can be removed off their servers in certain instantces, the rest comes down to weather you trust that or not, but you must have done to be here..

I see the benifit that I get adverts in game and get a more authentic feel then seeing fake adverts. I have the choice to install the game or not, likewise with the swat 4 patch which installs adverts, since I only played sp on SWAT 4 I have no need to reinstall 1.1, the adverts where done badly in that game. The information sent back home I don't have an issue with unless they went against privacy laws and sent information about ME. It's kinda like me surfing the www every website I visit can tell the owner what O/S and version i'm using what web browser and what version, i'm not about to complain to all those websites out there that can utilise this that I want some benifit out of it too, they are usualy subjected to the same online privacy laws as everyone else. Unless you're saying they break them too for money?

subzero1900
03-18-2006, 10:16 AM
so your saying instead of being offered fake adds ingame in realistic places you want to be bombarded with adds all over the place in the most unrealistic places... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

PC screensavers, posters in the most ******ed places, even ones that you in a MILLION years would not see on a poster....FREAKING WILLIAM SHATNER AS A PC SCREEN SAVER FFS!!! (realistic not one f*** bit)

Where on earth would you see advertisements as screen savers? where would you see some add about deoderant on a Soda machine? This isnt real life where you walk down the streets and theres thousands of adds plasterd over each and every wall. this is Invasion of Privacy any way you cut the cake.

IF you want the adds it should be your choice, not forced oppon the consumer because the manufactor didn't fix all of the bugs and your either left with a broken product or get the fix and suffer the invasion of privacy.

IF there is no mention of "Streaming adds" in the manual...aka the Legal contract on paper... and then your information gets sent off to some company to see wither or not you like to wear pink panites or look to see what new deoderant is out there, There should be some benifits to the ones who's privacy has been INVADED, or legal actions should be taken,

If my contract that I purchased the game under (The one in the manual) differentiates than whats on the CD, for a Broken product (buggy) I should have full right to either A. A FIX under the same Legal contract Or B.return that game for FULL PRICE not C. Be left with a $50.00 coaster because I refuse to settle with the new contract.

Woosy
03-18-2006, 10:47 AM
It says so in the "EULA" when you install if you don't agree don't click next, and yes you should read it. Microsoft XP does the exact same thing for everyone who uses their legit software from what your computer specs are to how many times you have formatted and reinstalled windows and much more, unless you've been naughty and pirated it. I like the adverts in certain games as they give it a more authentic feel if they annoy you fair enough, I haven't said everyone must like them, never denied some have been out of place either, SWAT 4 is an example of that. I have said in this thread if they are done "right" I don't have a problem with it.

I don't expect benifits, as I've said websites out there do the same thing, they get stats of how many hits O/S web browser and how oftern I come and go and time visited exactly the same, and then sell the information on they are still subjected to privacy laws which state they can't use my id unless asked so, anon means nothing. Some have adverts all over their website, shall I demand I get some benifits because I made them money by visiting their site?

This is common now, with Video On Demand in the Uk with sky tv and the BBC now giving people the choice to use p2p programs to download programs legaly. In the EULA it doesn't specificaly say that it will use you're bandwitdh to send the file you just downloaded to someone else like Bittorrent. But if anyone has an ounce of knowledge on how p2p works we know it does, those programs also send information back. As long as it's protected by the online privacy laws and british data protection act which all data collected in the uk is, no one has a problem with it.

I would suggest you play GRAW on the xbox360 and see the adverts I speak of and see what I mean by done "right" and not over the top.

Le Tigre
03-18-2006, 11:40 AM
I dont like this.

I dont watch television at all, I dont even have it, I hate it, theres nothing but **** on and you spend more time watching advertisments then the real program.

Everywhere I walk my mind is hit with a barage of this totally non creative, manipluative garbage, called the advertisment. And 98% of it is bad advertisment!

(note, this comes from someone formally trained in the field)

And last december I watch I movie called The Island. Now it was bad enough when they started playing advertisments before movies, now they are composing entire scenes around them.

Now I don't mind a little product placement, it helps pay for the films, but what happened in the Island was disgusting. I felt like I was watching a two hour commercial, and it totally removed me from the experince. (lucky for me the movie was a bad)

So the point is with games, I dont like it! BUT if a little product placement is going to help the game companies with the development costs, I can handle it, as long as it doesn't remove me from the experince. What that means is, if, and I say if I happen to walk past a grocery store and theres a coke machine there, that I can deal with.

But if a cut scene opens on a bottle of Aquafina in a cuba rebals hand, while he threatins the president, or there is a "insert major grocery store" in the middle of africa, Im going to get irritated.

reggo
03-18-2006, 12:25 PM
If one doesn't pay for his/her TV programs (one does pick up the signal in the air with an antenna), then one has to expect going through annoying advertisements.

But someone who pays for a movie ticket to the cinema should not even have to see advertisements BEFORE the movie presentation, much less DURING the movie presentation. As 'Le Tigre' said, 'The Island' is really disgusting in that aspect alone!

IMHO, if I pay 50$ or more for game, I shouldn't see even ONE (1) advertisement. NOT A SINGLE ONE! If you open the door just a bit for a 'believable' coke advertisement disguised as a drink distributor in a cafeteria, then be ready for a non-stop increasing intrusiveness!

SODsniper
03-18-2006, 01:32 PM
Originally posted by reggo:
If one doesn't pay for his/her TV programs (one does pick up the signal in the air with an antenna), then one has to expect going through annoying advertisements.



This exact theme came up during litigation of the Replay DVR. To refresh people's memory, REPLAY wanted to add a specific button to their DVRs that would automatically skip commercials. TV executives went completely ape-shet over this and sued. One TV exec was quoted as sayin, "If you get up to go to the bathroom or get a sandwich during commercials, you are STEALING TV service..." http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Unfortuanatly, this is the "greed" mindset we find all too common in large corporations these days. No longer are people content with making money hand over fist. These days, they want to control people's actions so that they can make 20 billion a year instead of 19.5 billion a year.

And they will take people to court and SUE them so the courts will help them control and extort people..

Sorry, I didn't mean to go off on this tangent, but it really sickens me. Which is why I am so passionate at times about seeing the little guy (customer) being steamrolled by the mammoth corps who have to eeek out that extra penny from Joe Q Public...

Brettzies
03-18-2006, 04:48 PM
Originally posted by SODsniper:One TV exec was quoted as sayin, "If you get up to go to the bathroom or get a sandwich during commercials, you are STEALING TV service..." http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

It all sucks. You know what's really strange. Most people either paying for cable or some form of satellite tv, yet there are still lots of commercials on the so-called "cable" channels. Probably even more with all the infomercials. Now, if we were all getting DirecTV for free, it'd be different. I'd love to have the skip commercial button with TIVO.

FI_FlimFlam
03-18-2006, 09:13 PM
Woosy, the issue with it in games is that you have no choice. Really. You don't have a choice if you want to play the game. You either agree and install or you don't and miss out on playing the game. The way to block them is community found and not provided by the game manufacturer. There is NO OPT out for this kind of data collection.

It's doubly bad when after purchasing said game and during install you decide you don't want to have the ads, you cannot return it because 99% of the retailers won't let you get a refund for the title.

If at the very least people were given an option to opt out and still install, then perhaps I might agree with you. However this is being forced on gamers regardless if they want it in their games or not. You either get the adverts and deal with the data colletion and hijacking of your bandwith or you don't install the game. Until gamers are given a choice about it, I will never agree with it.

Woosy
03-18-2006, 11:27 PM
Yeah, I totaly agree there should be an option I don't disagree with that. But like I've said with windows XP when I installed it and read the EULA, it says in there they can and will transmit data from my pc to their HQ, it uses bandwidth, also there is no OPT out ubnless you use ilegal means.

I'm sure when a program crashes on peoples computer they don't realise it sends MS their hardware details, installed programs and much much more, it's no different, people say ah but that helps fix bugs, yeah but what happens to that data? I had this question about feed the pirana aswell which sends information back home too. The thing is you can't be picky about one thing and not the other, do you complain about MS sending your data at any time it wishes or just game adverts?

Like windows it's forced upon the user, no one seems to care user end , but put it in a video game and you have to break up a fight. I don't see in-game adverts any different then whats actually going on right now, I would seriously have to unplug my computer from the net to stop things like that happening, if its ads my o/s websites, visiting this sent information to ubi and how long i've been here.

If givern the option like you say and which I totaly agree with as some people may find intrusive, I personaly wouldn't mind having them in the game for a more authentic feel as long as they are done right. My main concerns is if they start taking personal information, but hey hum, I'm going to ask them on monday.

SODsniper
03-19-2006, 05:39 AM
Originally posted by Brettzies:
I'd love to have the skip commercial button with TIVO.

We love our TIVO.. Very few things in our life have been "revolutionary" and totally changed the way we did things. TIVO is one of those things.

I have become quite adept at timing the "2 arrow" fast-forward to bypass all the commercials. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif My little way of "sticking it to the Man" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

FI_FlimFlam
03-19-2006, 10:37 AM
Originally posted by Woosy:

I'm sure when a program crashes on peoples computer they don't realise it sends MS their hardware details, installed programs and much much more, it's no different, people say ah but that helps fix bugs, yeah but what happens to that data? I had this question about feed the pirana aswell which sends information back home too. The thing is you can't be picky about one thing and not the other, do you complain about MS sending your data at any time it wishes or just game adverts?


When a program crashes, windows gives you the OPTION to send the crash information about your program and system information. At lieast on my XP system it asks me if I want to submit before it sends any data.

With FP you have the option of playing on non-FP servers so it DOES NOT prevent you from playing the game in the first place.

Both of your examples give the user options which do not prevent the user from using or playing the application - unlike the in game advertising.

Woosy
03-19-2006, 11:27 AM
Windows requires me to input a code every 60 days for validation unless you're using corporate edition, thats not an option it requires you to phone ms everytime you format, it then sends info to ms. The same thing happens if I install new hardware new information gets sent to them, that isn't an option either. Some bug reports you don't have an option it just comes up click ok and it sends it off. There is alot of other things they get information off it's not just validation and bug reports.

Defuser
03-19-2006, 11:48 AM
I don't think that the MS parallel is particularly valid because one is to facilitate the prevention of piracy and (relatively) non-intrusive, whereas the other is to line the pockets of the publisher OUTSIDE of the prevention of piracy, which is a necessary and understandable business practice. Furthermore, you are made acutely aware of MS's anti-piracy measures as they are explained to you quite clearly upon activation, whereas outside of reading the EULA into the very finest of smallprint, you are never going to know about the invasion of your privacy. Also, you have to input a code every 60 days? Explicitly? For all the various versions of XP I have used in the past few years, I have never once had to 'input' a code every 60 days. Are you sure? Are you talking about regular formatting?

The argument that games somehow 'may' get cheaper because the publisher's income is augmented by the advertising is rubbish. The fundamental ground rule in business is that you charge your customer the maximum you can without compromising overall sales. Based on the demographic of the majority of PC gamers, and their resultant disposable income, the charge of (average) 30 quid per game on release will neither rise nor fall. The price would only be lowered should the bottom fall out of the market - and it's going from strength to strength. This is merely a way for the publisher to generate extra income on the outside of the sale of the actual game/subscription fee. It does nothing for the gamer apart from sap their bandwidth, invade their privacy and provide notable distractions from the game proper (no matter how appropriate they may be). There is no benevolence, there is no thoughtful consideration of the player, there is nothing in this situation apart from business.

It is simply a case of the publisher looking at ways to extract more money from the industry proper. It is ethically unsound (because it invades the player's privacy at the cost of being able to play the game without objection) and remarkably underhand in its implementation. There is nothing good you can say about this apart from that it helps grease the corporate wheels of the publisher.

FI_FlimFlam
03-19-2006, 11:53 AM
I have 4 XP computers at the house and not a one of them asks for Validation every sixty days. Only on reinstall has one asked for validation, the rest were validated OEM at the factory. Granted if I reinstall it will attemtp to validate. But something is wrong with your OS install or the GBR version of XP is completely different than the US one in this regards.

I am not saying that nothing in windows gathers info without consent. The majority of the things that do, such as bug reports for diffrent programs (such as FF) all ask and most have a setting that you can toggle. I have yet on any of my CPU's to not be asked for permission to submit information. Only if it is doing through non-notification means is it happening.

Windows update also gathers information regarding your computer and sends it back to MS. The Genuine MS validation tool did that which I'm sure you are aware of if you recently re-installed. I'm not particularly happy with either personally and would rather be without them. But in order for me to get updates for XP I am required to allow this. I have no choice. Am I happy about that? No, but in that instance I can do nothing about it besides complain to them - which I have.

In this instance I feel we have a chance to give gamers a choice in this matter. I will not simply accept it. It would be easy enough for them to allow gamers to OPT out and that is all I am asking for.

Woosy
03-19-2006, 12:18 PM
FI_FlimFlam I don't disagree with you,http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif my point was that things like your O/S and web browsers do it too. I'm not happy about alot of it, believe it or not I'm super cautious. Why I installed MS products is because the information they collect is not personal which their EULA (http://proprietary.clendons.co.nz/licenses/eula/windowsxpprofessional-eula.htm) states which i'm ok with if you know what i mean? I don't want to be selfish and have adverts without thinking of others and believe me I'm not. I do wish there was an option. I jsut see the other side to having them which is benificial to me, and maybe some others i dunno?, I'm always the odd pea in the pod. *lol*

I do think when they are put in PC games they arn't enabled by default, I could be wrong, but in SWAT4 and SCCT when I played them those two games didn't have them in by default till later when patches came out. The choice comes down to if you want to update and get new stuff with adverts or not, it sucks for some people like yourself so I do know.

I'll write it out so maybe my bad writing doesn't confuse, I would like adverts in a game to give me and people who wish it a more authentic feel to the game to immerse me as long as the information collected isn't personal, I would also like the option to opt out if I or others don't like them. Thats all *sigh* if it seemed like I didn't care about whats others privacy I appologise, somtimes my ramblings really does make me look like a dipstick. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blush.gif

doubleTAP5.56mm
03-22-2006, 12:36 AM
I'll write it out so maybe my bad writing doesn't confuse, I would like adverts in a game to give me and people who wish it a more authentic feel to the game to immerse me as long as the information collected isn't personal, I would also like the option to opt out if I or others don't like them.

<span class="ev_code_yellow">As I've said, it's not the adds themselves that are the prob, it's the invasive use of YOUR internet connection and PC/console for THEIR profit, and by the way, the inherent effect this "service" will increasingly have on game content and developement.</span>

Woosy
03-22-2006, 01:59 AM
I've also noticed in debating this for months that the same benighted souls who want the adds for "realism and immersion", on separate occasions will also argue that they "never look at the adds anyway, they're too busy playing the game".

Really? Well to be honest with you playing GRAW on co-op on the map "nowhere" you cannot miss the advert with axis on while playing. then the treasury map you see the busses with adverts on, cannot miss them either. I play SCCT and see the adverts on the computer screens and billboards, thats while I'm playing the game. I don't debate to have somthing, If I know I'll never see them, thats just daft. From my experience In certain games it made it realistic hence Why i wanted them.

I know what you mean it's a catch 22 with any product on the market, not just ones with adverts inside them. That to read the EULA you must open the box, in that case one should tread careful, and wait for the community or website reviewers to report back if it has it in game, or in the EULA. I know people do this for when they don't want to buy games from ubisoft that have Starforce in, as it's not specificaly written in the EULA. One could argue you shouldn't have to wait on the day of release and read what people say, I agree, but if you cannot take back the game, I know thats what I would do.