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View Full Version : Oleg. Is it not time to fix russian speedometer?



XyZspineZyX
09-27-2003, 03:17 PM
When reaching 350 according to speedbar, the speedometer in most russian planes show 40. Is it really that hard to fix this amazingly anoying little slipp?
Exept that i would like to thank you for the best game/sim i ever had the pleasure to lay my hands on.



Message Edited on 10/03/0303:36PM by Fritzkiller

XyZspineZyX
09-27-2003, 03:17 PM
When reaching 350 according to speedbar, the speedometer in most russian planes show 40. Is it really that hard to fix this amazingly anoying little slipp?
Exept that i would like to thank you for the best game/sim i ever had the pleasure to lay my hands on.



Message Edited on 10/03/0303:36PM by Fritzkiller

XyZspineZyX
09-30-2003, 10:18 PM
Bump

XyZspineZyX
09-30-2003, 10:26 PM
Unless I am misunderstanding your question the answer is:

All planes show indicated airspeed in speedbar.

All planes show true airspeed in guages and with cockpit turned off.

<center>
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"Ice Warriors", by Nicolas Trudgian.

Message Edited on 09/30/0309:26PM by kyrule2

XyZspineZyX
10-01-2003, 05:03 AM
I wonder how the real WW2 pilot manage to know at what speed they was going, specially when making bombing runs, they don`t have a keyboard to press Shift-F1

XyZspineZyX
10-01-2003, 08:42 AM
Flakwalker wrote:
- I wonder how the real WW2 pilot manage to know at
- what speed they was going, specially when making
- bombing runs, they don`t have a keyboard to press
- Shift-F1



Like I said in my first post, the guages give true airspeed as well. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

<center>
http://www.brooksart.com/Icewarriors.jpg

"Ice Warriors", by Nicolas Trudgian.

XyZspineZyX
10-01-2003, 11:45 AM
Flakwalker wrote:
- I wonder how the real WW2 pilot manage to know at
- what speed they was going, specially when making
- bombing runs, they don`t have a keyboard to press
- Shift-F1
-
-

The formula for calculating it (or at least a rough approximation) has been known for years. Most pilots, if they needed TAS simply had a conversion chart on their kneeboard...at most it's a simple algebra problem...

Much like the one provided on Disk 2 of the FB set.

XyZspineZyX
10-01-2003, 11:55 AM
kyrule2 wrote:
- Unless I am misunderstanding your question the
- answer is:
-
- All planes show indicated airspeed in speedbar.
-
- All planes show true airspeed in guages and with
- cockpit turned off.

Plane guages showing TAS? ALL PLANES? In WWII?

Most every one I've ever heard of show only IAS which is more important when you're flying than TAS. TAS is good for navigating and then only as an intermittant to figuring out ground speed. IAS tells you if you have enough airspeed to make a maneuver of any kind, like climb or turn or if you should even stay in level flight.

The only planes I've ever heard of that show TAS are modern jets using computers and even then it's an option. Sensei???


Neal

XyZspineZyX
10-01-2003, 05:38 PM
kyrule2 wrote:
- Unless I am misunderstanding your question the
- answer is:
-
- All planes show indicated airspeed in speedbar.
-
- All planes show true airspeed in guages and with
- cockpit turned off.
-

Tricky when you fly exclusivly with 'cockpits off' disabled /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I had an old formula we used on school to calculate TAS. I made an excel spreadsheet of it. PM me if you want the spreadsheet (excel 2000)

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye
shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be
measured to you again.

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XyZspineZyX
10-01-2003, 06:54 PM
Fritzkiller wrote:
- When reaching 350 according to speedbar, the
- speedometer in most russian planes show 40. Is it
- really that hard to fix this amazingly anoying
- little slipp?
- Exept that i would to thank you for the best
- game/sim i ever had the pleasure to lay my hands on.

IMO it's not only about IAS and TAS, you just forgot to multiply 40 with 10 /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif .

The Russian airspeed indicator shows 10*km/h !

-------------------
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JG51_Atze

JG51 (http://www.jg51.de)
Virtual Online War (http://www.s-driess.de/vow/index.php?page=homeā§ion=home)
"Ich bin ein Wurgerwhiner"

XyZspineZyX
10-01-2003, 09:22 PM
I took that one as a type! Good spot Atze!


Neal

XyZspineZyX
10-01-2003, 09:27 PM
Please turn on the game. You can do it by doubble-clicking the apropriate icon on youre desktop.
I dont mean youre desk but the space that shows up on youre computerscreen after you boot up youre pc.
If you hit the right icon and managed to get so far as to for example get into the la5fn you could easily discover that if you according to speedbar fly 200. aproximate take of speed. The speedometer shows 20. I am wery familiar with the fact that a lot of speedo/thaco/altitude-meters dont show the whole digit but there is an apropriate multiplyer for the meter concerned.
Then when you start to accelerate 250 on speedbar will be 25 on meter,300 on bar 30 and 350 on bar will read 40 on meter. reaching 500 on bar puts meter on 50. no probleme there.
So. instead of beeing total nimwitz and besservissers on the board.
Pleas play the game. If you at all have it installed.
Im so tired of idiots sugesting actions for idiots.
Hard for me to follow those sugestions as i am not an idiot.
So. Fix the meter. Should be an easy task for those that are familiar with the code.

Not very respectfuly Fritzkiller.

Ps
This is such a small wish. I would be so happy if you Oleg.My hero. took one second to give me some attention.



Message Edited on 10/01/0308:30PM by Fritzkiller

XyZspineZyX
10-01-2003, 09:56 PM
Fritzkiller wrote:
- Not very respectfuly Fritzkiller.

You should have written: "Not very humorously, Fritzkiller." /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif




-------------------
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JG51_Atze

JG51 (http://www.jg51.de)
Virtual Online War (http://www.s-driess.de/vow/index.php?page=homeā§ion=home)
"Ich bin ein Wurgerwhiner"

Message Edited on 10/01/0311:03PM by Atzebrueck

XyZspineZyX
10-01-2003, 10:22 PM
I guess I misunderstood the problem, who knows. Anyway, at this point it is turning into an argument so I really don't care. Sorry if I upset anyone or provided any false information but people need to chill the hell out.

<center>
http://www.brooksart.com/Icewarriors.jpg

"Ice Warriors", by Nicolas Trudgian.

XyZspineZyX
10-02-2003, 01:49 AM
FritzKiller, as you are apparently being serious (the others believed you to be a 'troll' and attempting to stir up trouble over nothing), I wil attempt to answer your question (or ignorant demand, as it appears on my computer screen). Many aircraft (and in fact vehicles of all types) use guages that read as the Soviet speed indicator. As you can see by looking at the Soviet speed indicator, you are intended to to multiply the viewed number by 10, or x10 as the guage says. This is historic, and intentional by Oleg and Company.

Many other vehicles both past and present use this convention. For example the Hurricane airspeed indicator (and all British airspeed indicators I believe), or the FW190 tachometer (RPM indicator). Also my Ford Ranger uses the same convention on the tachometer, I would guess that your vehicle does too.

If I misunderstand, and you have evidence that shows La5FN's, or Yak3's used an airspeed indicator guage with the 'full number' (300, as on American aircraft for example) all you need to do is email your pictures and references to Oleg, though you can rest assured that Oleg is reasonably sure already that he is correct (or he wouldn't have done it that way)

I'm sorry that your sick, but really you should try to put yourself in Oleg's shoes, who is expected, no demanded, by everyone (including yourself) to respond to these types of threads containing mainly ignorance and negativity. You blew up after 5 posts, Oleg recieves something on the order of 1000 posts per day (discounting emails). Walk a mile in the mans shoes, then tell us how sick you are.

XyZspineZyX
10-02-2003, 02:57 AM
I've noticed this too and it is very annoying. I'm also pretty sure it's a bug, but the airspeed indicator is a fairly important instrument, so you would think that if it were really a bug they would have fixed it by now.

Also, to clear it up i think everyone knows that 25 = 250km/h and 30 = 300km/h, indicated airspeed, and so on. The problem is that the red text at the lower right will say 350, and the airspeed indicator will say 40, meaning 400km/h, so the airspeed indicator is wrong.

248th_Vgamer
C/O IL-2 Forgotten Battles Division
248th VFS
http://www.248th.com

XyZspineZyX
10-02-2003, 04:12 AM
I see what you mean Vgamer (about the Soviet airspeed indicator not reading the same number as the speedbar). I hadn't noticed this effect, but personally I'd guess this also is modeled intentionally, if given time the variance does seem to even out (please forgive me if I'm wrong, very few hours in the Soviet aircraft).

It appears to be the same type of 'guage effect' as for example the compasses, or the vertical speed indicators and so on; whereas the guage takes some time to provide the 'correct' (or 'up-to-date') reading. The German aircraft seem to keep up a bit better, though they also have some 'slack'. It is slightly difficult to pinpoint it imho as the speedbar only ticks over in ten kph.

Still looks correct to me, though less sure now http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

P.S. I guess as long as we're editing our messages after we post them: I'm quite sure that most all (excepting possibly the Me262) of the aircraft in FB show indicated airspeed on the 'in-cockpit' guages.

Message Edited on 10/01/0309:17PM by ZG77_Lignite

XyZspineZyX
10-02-2003, 05:35 AM
-
- The only planes I've ever heard of that show TAS are
- modern jets using computers and even then it's an
- option. Sensei???
-
-
- Neal
-
-
-
-
Neal, modern jets do not display true airspeed, as this is useless in any calculations done according to flight manuals. GPS's can come up with ground speed, but as far as I know, aircraft don't display TAS anywhere, except maybe on a flight computer non-essential to the safety of the flight.

XyZspineZyX
10-02-2003, 11:41 AM
Thus if not a "REAL" bug. I can only speak for myself and would like an oficial statement from developers.

And you ZG77 Lignite. Managed to do exactly what i did NOT ask for.
Read again and try to understand.

XyZspineZyX
10-02-2003, 10:34 PM
http://mitglied.lycos.de/eldur190d9/bilder/gauge.jpg


/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


<hr>

<p align=center style="width:100%; filter:glow[color=#33CCFF, strength=2)">

<img src=http://mitglied.lycos.de/eldur190d9/bilder/willey110.jpg border=0 alt="Hier geht's zur I/JG78"> (http://www.jg78.de)

</p><font color=3E6A7B>
</font><font color=59626B>

XyZspineZyX
10-03-2003, 09:56 AM
Ok Willy. Where did you find the one that is right?

XyZspineZyX
10-03-2003, 10:19 AM
Vgamer_248th wrote:
- I've noticed this too and it is very annoying. I'm
- also pretty sure it's a bug, but the airspeed
- indicator is a fairly important instrument, so you
- would think that if it were really a bug they would
- have fixed it by now.
-

Well done Vgamer. I'm utterly amazed this got so far before anyone understood the question! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif Yes Fritz, you're right. It nothing to do with IAS/TAS or x10 etc. The ASI in Russian planes has the '40' written over the line representing 350 kph and a space over the line where it should be (400 kph). One of the first things I noticed in IL-2. I thought everyone knew that /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Cockpit gauges read IAS, although I'm not sure why the Hurricane has one calibrated in kts; the photo in the Hurricane manual clearly says mph. Although kts are used throughout the western world now, mph was used by the RAF during WW2 in every document I've seen. That's another small ASI 'bug' we could clear up at the same time perhaps.

I'll just take the opportunity to echo your comments about how good this game is. I've been playing offline campaigns again recently, with full realim, and was impressed by how real it feels. You see a a formation of enemies approach, then suddenly the sky is full of dots in a swirling dogfight and then, just as suddenly, you find the sky completely empty, just like in some accounts you read.


Kernow
249 IAP

XyZspineZyX
10-03-2003, 03:27 PM
Fritzkiller wrote:
- Where did you find the one that is right?

The right one shows how it should be IMHO. I just moved the 40 in paint /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif .

XyZspineZyX
10-03-2003, 04:32 PM
Right on the head of the nail,-Said the hammer.

XyZspineZyX
10-05-2003, 08:09 AM
Bump

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 08:35 AM
Bump

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 02:40 PM
Looks like they intended the scale to be logarythmic (bigger needle movement for low values) just like Vertical speed indicator. It also seems that the number was misplaced on the face of the gauge in the game...The pic on the right makes sens to me...Maybe something to fix there...

"See, Decide, Attack, Reverse or Coffee Break" E.H.

"See, Decide, Attack, Reverse or Coffee Break" E.H.

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 04:25 PM
Bump

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 04:49 PM
Fritzkiller, I also think that it's a bug. IMHO, it's not an issue on IAS or TAS, etc. Look at that pic in Willey's post to check the number of small marking lines among 10,20,30,40,50,60... In the left gauge, the numbers are 10, 10, 5, 10, 5, 5, 5. In the right, they are 10,10,10,5,5,5,5. Thus, the scale of the left gauage is wrong.
um.... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif Really hard to exactly express my thought in English. I hope you understand my poor English. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

------------------------------------
"Heaven Shall Burn...When We Are Gathered"


Message Edited on 10/08/0303:50PM by Flying_Marduk

XyZspineZyX
10-12-2003, 07:25 AM
Funny how i suddenly came across images from actual russian book of instructions for pilots.


http://www.uploadit.org/files/121003-52.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-12-2003, 07:52 AM
<Center>http://www.uploadit.org/files/121003-Balle.JPG

XyZspineZyX
10-12-2003, 07:06 PM
Fritzkiller wrote:
- Funny how i suddenly came across images from actual
- russian book of instructions for pilots.
-

Ah, proof, if it were needed, that the 40 needs to be moved slightly.

I've noticed that if you select Finnish markings (maybe any 'blue' side markings) you get an ASI calibrated in mph in the Hurricane. Russian or RAF ones (probably all 'red' ones) are calibrated in kts. I'm pretty sure the RAF ones should also be in mph, from the photos I've seen. Were the ones supplied to Russia really calibrated in kts?

Hardly something to lose any sleep over /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif I guess they had some special reason to change the mph ASI to kts in the Russian / red cockpit art. Just curious now.

Kernow
249 IAP


Kernow
249 IAP

XyZspineZyX
10-13-2003, 11:01 AM
This could be an interesting discussion.
As far as i know US Navy Planes such as "Wildcat" "Corsair" and "Hellcat" had the speedgauge in Knots due to beeing developed for the navy.
Can something similar have to do with theese Hurricanes?

<Center>http://www.uploadit.org/files/121003-Balle.JPG

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 12:24 PM
Fritzkiller wrote:
- This could be an interesting discussion.
- As far as i know US Navy Planes such as "Wildcat"
- "Corsair" and "Hellcat" had the speedgauge in Knots
- due to beeing developed for the navy.
- Can something similar have to do with theese
- Hurricanes?

I've just received a copy of the Spitfire V manual and the photos in that (modern b/w ones from the Spit V at Hendon) show the very gauge, calibrated in kts, which you get in FB's 'red' Hurricane. However, all the speeds I can find after a quick skim through are mph only. Unfortunately, in the original manual cockpit layout photos you can't really read the face of the ASI. What numbers I can read do match the much clearer pic from the Hurri manual (mph ASI), indicating that the original 1943 manual has an ASI calibrated in mph.

Incidentally, the Spit V notes also cover the Seafire I & II, and the clearest pic of a mph ASI is one of the Seafire cockpit.

I guess at some stage, possibly post-war, kts replaced mph. Naturally most examples which found their way into museums to be photographed and studied for FB were retired post-war and so had ASIs calibrated in kts.

I think mph must have been used pretty much throughout the war, as mph is the only unit of measure used in the Hurri II notes (ammended up to Mar 44 at least), Spit V notes (ammended to Jul 43 at least) and Lanc I, III & X notes (May 44). An ammendment would have been produced when the ASIs were changed to kts.

Kernow
249 IAP