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XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 08:06 PM
I got on the tail of a P-47D-27 in my Brewster in Quickfight. He was maybe 150 meters out in a slight turn so I sprayed a short burst up the fuselage and his turn continued into the ground so I knew I had killed the pilot. I thought to myself, if that was a razorback, the pilot would have been protected. Anyway, if I were a combat pilot, I would easily choose pilot protection over slightly better visibility. I'd be scared as hell to to go into combat inside this unprotected "bubble". Were these canopies on the P-51/P-47 armored at all? Why were bubble canopies chosen over the protection of pilot's? Which would you prefer?

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Message Edited on 08/05/0303:15PM by EvilBen

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 08:06 PM
I got on the tail of a P-47D-27 in my Brewster in Quickfight. He was maybe 150 meters out in a slight turn so I sprayed a short burst up the fuselage and his turn continued into the ground so I knew I had killed the pilot. I thought to myself, if that was a razorback, the pilot would have been protected. Anyway, if I were a combat pilot, I would easily choose pilot protection over slightly better visibility. I'd be scared as hell to to go into combat inside this unprotected "bubble". Were these canopies on the P-51/P-47 armored at all? Why were bubble canopies chosen over the protection of pilot's? Which would you prefer?

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"Cowards die many times before their deaths;
The valiant never taste of death but once."

Message Edited on 08/05/0303:15PM by EvilBen

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 08:13 PM
PK's against a P-47 is far to easy. Engine kills, too.

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XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 08:15 PM
Ben, how much protection do you think the thin aluminum skin of the razorbacks provided?

The bubble canopy a/c had pilot armoured backs/headrests just like the razors had.

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XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 08:18 PM
MiloMorai wrote:
- Ben, how much protection do you think the thin
- aluminum skin of the razorbacks provided?
-
- The bubble canopy a/c had pilot armoured
- backs/headrests just like the razors had.
-
<img
- src="http://www.stenbergaa.com/stenberg/crandall-s
- tormclouds2.jpg">
-

There was no additional armor behind the seat in razorbacks?

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XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 08:18 PM
Milo, it's kinda psychological warfare /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

BTW: chicken or egg ? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

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XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 08:30 PM
Thin aluminium would of offered very little protection against a .50 cal slug, it would pass through very easily, so i think the thinking went, with much better visibility you should see the plane that could bounce you before he sees you and therefore bounce him. Voila.

picture the spirit St Luis (long range atlantic flight jobby) ok picture the above without every crevice full of highly flamable fuel, in fight with a P11, which would you fly, the 'all round' protection of aluminium or the open cockpit with no 'armour', i know which i'd fly.

for arguments sake the performance of the said aircraft is comparable along with armament being similiar.

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 08:33 PM
Protection is only worth so much, enough bullets or big enough ones will punch through armor, and armor only protects from certain angles. Therefore being able to see more will keep you from being shot as much and thus better protection. Though not sure how well this is in FB, as you cant move your head to look around the seat and what not.

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XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 08:35 PM
It's important to see the enemy too../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 08:54 PM
This diagram (BIG) shows that razorbacks did have pilot armor behind the seat. #72

http://www.geocities.com/joehuntleyus/p47-3.html

http://www.assonetart.com/ClashofArmor.jpg
"Cowards die many times before their deaths;
The valiant never taste of death but once."

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 08:54 PM
EvilBen wrote:

-
- There was no additional armor behind the seat in
- razorbacks?
-
-

Did not say there was additional armour./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I repeat, the pilot had armour behind him in the 'razor' just as the pilot in the 'bubble' had. American fighter a/c had armour protection for the pilot.


An interesting site for the P-47D

http://rwebs.net/avhistory/history/p-47.htm

http://www.stenbergaa.com/stenberg/crandall-stormclouds2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 11:38 PM
I get PKed just as often in the razorback as I do in the bubble canopy. I dont think 1/8" or so of alumminum is very protective. What bothers me more then anything is the engine is killed far to easily. Dont think so?? Look it up. The Jug has come home on many occasions with half of its cylinders shot out. One mg round can disable the Jugs engine...I think Oleg has it mixed up with the P-51.


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XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 11:47 PM
maybe a russian MG can take out a P47 engine..so its less a problem of the engine, than of the weapon.
With a german MG you can take out a P51 engine, thats ok I think, but I never killed a 47engine...

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XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 11:47 PM
The P47 and P51D had Steel plat armor behind the pilot.. the headrest is mounted on steel armor, not aluminum. THe seat mounting is attached to a steel armored plate covering the rear of the cockpit.

Also, aluminum isn't a great amor, but it can have a very adverse effect on AP ammo. AP ammo needs the tip of the projectile to be in line with the flight path to be effective. Penetrating a surface before striking the armor plate can upset the projectile and really effect its penetrration potential.to hit close to 90' to be