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Choctaw111
10-12-2005, 11:43 AM
Will the physics modeling include bouncing bullets and ricochets? This has been done in EAW which is very old but added a really nice touch of realism to it. I know that all the "big things" will be addressed in BoB as far as realism but a lot of little details like ricochets really and many other things add to the overall immersion and "believeability" of the sim. I hope that Oleg is going the extra mile in physics as far as projectiles are concerned...

EmbarkChief
10-12-2005, 04:23 PM
I believe we already have ricochets in the game. Why? Because if your aircraft is tipped on its nose and you fire your mg's the plane will suffer damage even though its not being hit directly.

ImpStarDuece
10-12-2005, 05:26 PM
I can see the whines now; "Oleg, I cant kill a Tiger by bouncing .50cals into the belly armour! This is wrong, FIXX IT1!!!!"

ElAurens
10-12-2005, 07:03 PM
Tigers are over rated.

FritzGryphon
10-12-2005, 07:05 PM
The riccochets off the ground and water would look cool. Bounce of tanks and hard buildings too.

It is so commonly seen in guncam footage, it's a wonder more games don't have it. I've only seen it in Gunship 2000 (bounce off tanks), but that game is lame.

If people whine about the Tigers not dying, give them a link for a Tiger armor diagram. Look, armor on the floor, what a surprise!

Simple rigid body dynamics would be nice too. Like, a bomb flip over a tank. Make a job for the physics processors to do http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Adlerangriff
10-12-2005, 07:29 PM
How about the ability to overheat your guns if you dont use them carefully?

Maybe less accurate firing and more spray if they get overused?

karost
10-12-2005, 09:50 PM
Physics Modeling for BoB...! for who ?

for a common players in big market ? or
for an old hand players ? or
for for a both group with 50% way compromise for each side ? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

EAW is my first sim to tecah me to know how terrible a spin is look like. EAW don't care a common players that why, event now over 5 years, people still naming this sim same like IL2 classic original http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


recover spin in FB still easy for a common players , I still belive BOB's FM still compromise between marketing reason and FM SIMULATION quality.

S!

Choctaw111
10-13-2005, 08:30 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by EmbarkChief:
I believe we already have ricochets in the game. Why? Because if your aircraft is tipped on its nose and you fire your mg's the plane will suffer damage even though its not being hit directly.[/QUOTE}

I believe this is caused by the bullets impacting so close to the tipped AC. I have tried this many times to see what would happen. I really doubt that if you put an object in front of the AC that is tipped over and fire the guns that the object in front will be hit. The AC is only damaged from the gunfire hitting so close to the AC. AS you may know the shrapnel from the explosions are modeled in the game so if an explosion occures on the wing of an AC the shrapnel from the explosion may hit another part of the AC and so it is with the firing of the guns on a tipped AC after you crash land. The bullets hit the ground and the explosions hit your AC not the ricochets.

Blottogg
10-13-2005, 10:10 AM
Rounds already ricochet off Il-2 armor in the current 4.01 version (as well as previous versions... I don't remember when the effect was first introduced.) I've also seen the effect while shooting other aircraft types, though I don't remember specifics at the moment. Were there other ricochet effects you wanted as well?

Punkfriday
10-13-2005, 12:17 PM
i want to see peeling steel from damage/wind and engine mounts that snap when the G's are too high.
i also want to be able to detonate ordanance and fuel. and simulate ice at high altitudes.

but i bet none of this will make it into the next sim.

Choctaw111
10-13-2005, 10:15 PM
Originally posted by Blottogg:
Rounds already ricochet off Il-2 armor in the current 4.01 version (as well as previous versions... I don't remember when the effect was first introduced.) I've also seen the effect while shooting other aircraft types, though I don't remember specifics at the moment. Were there other ricochet effects you wanted as well?

I have seen the ricochets off of Il2 which look really good. I would also like to see the ricochet effect on tanks and other vehicles and buildings and also the ground and water. Having ricochets off of the ground and water is essential to realism. The lower the angle that you shoot at the ground or water and the percentage of the ricochets will increase. If you shoot staight down at the ground or water there will be no ricochets but if you shoot and the ground or water or any other hard object at a shallow angle you will have a lot a ricochets. They would just be really nice to see in BoB. It adds a lot of immersion and excitement!

Jetbuff
10-14-2005, 01:32 AM
To verify that ricochet's exist, launch a dogfight with some mates with invulnerability on and watch the fireworks.

LEXX_Luthor
10-14-2005, 06:38 AM
Richochet on ground or even air targets sounds good but we need other things more important first to advance air combat sims.

For Richochet, I wish Oleg make Stalingrad Sim with Dynamic Rubble. Infantry don't Whine about flight models.

Platypus_1.JaVA
10-14-2005, 06:29 PM
Ricochets are allready in the game IIRC. Try shooting Il-2's with the Bf-109 F2.

You will notice all your bullets bouncing off if you fire on the cockpit area. Looks like firewroks, very nice. But anyways, the problem is that you don't get it down with your tiny 15mm gun. Pilot kill or leaking oil radiator are your only options.

Choctaw111
10-16-2005, 07:25 PM
Originally posted by Platypus_1.JaVA:
Ricochets are allready in the game IIRC. Try shooting Il-2's with the Bf-109 F2.

You will notice all your bullets bouncing off if you fire on the cockpit area. Looks like firewroks, very nice. But anyways, the problem is that you don't get it down with your tiny 15mm gun. Pilot kill or leaking oil radiator are your only options.

We need ricochtes off of the ground, water and other objects and not just Il2's! Anyone who has ever fired machine guns or even just a single shot rifle (tracers help you see this even better) can tell you that bullets change thier flight paths even after hitting the softest things. Even a twig from a tree can change the flight path of a bullet!!! Maybe the computers of today cannot handle all of these extra calculations but at least represent them visually without the computer intensive calculations. Just let us see the bullets bouncing off things and never mind about calculating if the ricocheting bullets will hit something else or even shooting YOURSELF down on a low level strafing run! Just PLEASE give us the visual effects. PLEASE!!!!!! Thank you. I knew you would understand...

EmbarkChief
11-03-2005, 08:09 PM
Originally posted by Choctaw111:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by EmbarkChief:
I believe we already have ricochets in the game. Why? Because if your aircraft is tipped on its nose and you fire your mg's the plane will suffer damage even though its not being hit directly.[/QUOTE}

I believe this is caused by the bullets impacting so close to the tipped AC. I have tried this many times to see what would happen. I really doubt that if you put an object in front of the AC that is tipped over and fire the guns that the object in front will be hit. The AC is only damaged from the gunfire hitting so close to the AC. AS you may know the shrapnel from the explosions are modeled in the game so if an explosion occures on the wing of an AC the shrapnel from the explosion may hit another part of the AC and so it is with the firing of the guns on a tipped AC after you crash land. The bullets hit the ground and the explosions hit your AC not the ricochets.

I understand what you are saying but remember I'm talking about MG bullets, no exposions here. However these really are not ricochets in the true sense, just a fluke in my opinion.

TooCool_12f
11-05-2005, 07:42 AM
there are ricochets from water (ground not so much, bullets get buried), Ididn't test alsewhere, but if there are ricochets from IL2s, there are probably from other objects too

SeaFireLIV
11-05-2005, 07:55 AM
The`re basic ricochets, but more than that is inadvisable. There`s so much a flight sim has to do and forcing a CPU to calculate possible multiple ricochets in a dogfight, strafe, etc would bring a PC down to it`s knees. I`d have less of that and more work on aircraft and the war environment.

FritzGryphon
11-05-2005, 11:28 AM
Keep in mind, the 'riccochets' from the IL-2 armor are simply graphic effects.

It's just a sprite that appears to show when a bullet has struck armor. It happens on the P-47 pilot armor as well.

There is no actual bullet bouncing off. You can see in arcade mode, that there are no additional hit arrows, or ground hit dots, coming from riccochet effects.

Some people have noted being able to hit youself, when firing at a IL-2 from close range. This is due to explosive shells damaging you, not riccochets. It does not make sense for a bullet to bounce backward, anyway.

As for CPU time, I don't see why it'd be a problem. The riccocheted bullet would simply be a new bullet, spawned at a reciprocal angle to the surface it struck. It would take no more or less processor time than firing a new bullet.

The game already tracks impact angle and impact speed for penetration purposes (at least it does against planes and ground objects, maybe not for terrain).

Choctaw111
11-07-2005, 04:10 PM
Originally posted by FritzGryphon:
Keep in mind, the 'riccochets' from the IL-2 armor are simply graphic effects.

It's just a sprite that appears to show when a bullet has struck armor. It happens on the P-47 pilot armor as well.

There is no actual bullet bouncing off. You can see in arcade mode, that there are no additional hit arrows, or ground hit dots, coming from riccochet effects.

Some people have noted being able to hit youself, when firing at a IL-2 from close range. This is due to explosive shells damaging you, not riccochets. It does not make sense for a bullet to bounce backward, anyway.

As for CPU time, I don't see why it'd be a problem. The riccocheted bullet would simply be a new bullet, spawned at a reciprocal angle to the surface it struck. It would take no more or less processor time than firing a new bullet.

The game already tracks impact angle and impact speed for penetration purposes (at least it does against planes and ground objects, maybe not for terrain).

All I want to see is a graphical representation of ricochets. I do not really want the ricochets to hog the compute cycles from other more important aspects of the sim. I just want to see them bounce off water and the ground and other things just to look neat. If it has already been done with ricochets off the Il2 armor why can't we have ricochets on everything else as well?

Air_Bomber
11-14-2005, 12:04 PM
When is BoB supposed to come out? I've been waiting for a "Western Allies vs. Germany" version for a while (something besides home-made missions and QMB).