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View Full Version : ...Dewotine stand in? Bloch stand-in? Amiot 143?



Chuck_Older
10-08-2005, 08:25 PM
Stand in for the D520.

Which do you think- the LaGG-3? Or MiG-3? I am leaning towards LaGG-3 personally. Looks and performance-wise it is close.

What do you think of the early 'slab-nosed' DB-3 for the Amiot 143?

I'd love to get a "Bloch MB 151" as well, but we don't have ANYthing ugly enough!

Too bad we don't have many French a/c http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif Opinions welcome on the subject. Also interested in Polish a/c suggestions. I might need a really big pot to stir all this stuff in, that's all I'll say about it right now http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

woofiedog
10-08-2005, 10:00 PM
Me-110 for the Po-633

Lagg-3 for the De 520

Lagg-5 for the Bloch MB 151

A-20 for the early version Db-7

Hawk 81/P-40 B/C for the Hawk 75

csThor
10-08-2005, 11:38 PM
For the Bloch I used the IAR 80. I think both the LaGG-3 and especially the LaGG-5 are over the top performancewise and/or because of certain "modeling characteristics" (the russian Chopham Armor using Delta Wood http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif).

gx-warspite
10-09-2005, 12:12 AM
Are these to be flyable?

Yak-1 for Dewo. LaGG and MiG are too fast, plus MiG is lacking cannon.

LaGG-3 for Bloch MB151. It's almost perfect. MiG-3 with the double ShVAKs has more comparable armament but the Bloch was known for poor high alt performance, quite the opposite of the MiG. IAR 81a is another good choice.

G4M1 for the Amiot if you need it to be flyable. If not, DB-3 is a better choice.

JtD
10-09-2005, 01:30 AM
Oh the suggestions made I like the

Yak-1 for D-520 and the
IAR for the MB 150 best.

IAR and Bloch are really similar as they use a similar engine and are close to each other as far as weapons & speed are concerned.

Chuck_Older
10-09-2005, 06:33 AM
Originally posted by gx-warspite:
Are these to be flyable?

Yak-1 for Dewo. LaGG and MiG are too fast, plus MiG is lacking cannon.

LaGG-3 for Bloch MB151. It's almost perfect. MiG-3 with the double ShVAKs has more comparable armament but the Bloch was known for poor high alt performance, quite the opposite of the MiG. IAR 81a is another good choice.

G4M1 for the Amiot if you need it to be flyable. If not, DB-3 is a better choice.

No, not flyable. Player will be Luftwaffe

Yak-1 is much, much too fast for the D520, especially at altitude, and looks only very vaguely like the D520, don't you think? LaGG-3 is slower than the Yak-1, and looks similar to the D520. I have some Vichy "D520" skins for the LaGG that are quite convincing, but I'll try the Yak and see what happens

Bloch fighter is radial engined; LaGG is not. La5 resembles The Bloch MB151 superficially but is too fast. Not many MB 151s saw combat luckily, but I do so wnt to use it. Ki100 actually bears a resemblance but is much too good

JtD
10-09-2005, 08:02 AM
Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
No, not flyable. Player will be Luftwaffe

AI gives some more options...

Maybe you use the Hawk 75 for the Bloch? It has no cannons but noch all 15x had.

Also, the Yak is a little slower than the LaGG at least at low alt. As far as other aspect of the flight model are concerned the Yak is probably closer, as it's weight is much closer to a D520 than the LaGG's weight.

Also consider the M¶rk¶ Morane for a D520.

Chuck_Older
10-09-2005, 08:47 AM
I'll be using the Hawk 75 for the Hawk 75 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Since it was an Armee de l'Air aircraft...which makes it hard for me to use it as anything else. H75 was in use by the French at least as early as the winter of 1939


Where is this info on the Yak-1?



My Jane's Encyclopedia of Aviation lists it as 536-580 km/h, and my Complete Book of Fighters says 505 km/h at sea level, and 585 km/h at 3800m

In comparison, Jane's lists the D520 as being 530 km/h, while My Complete Book of Fighters says 425 km/h at sea level and 534 km/h at 5500m

The LaGG-3 however, is according to Jane's, 560 km/h, while the Complete Book of Fighters lists it as 495 km/h at sea level, and 570 km/h at 4000m

The Yak is too fast. I'll bold face the numbers I'm seeing in what i feel are the more accurate performance numbers:

Yak1:
536-580 km/h [jane's]
505 kmh (sea level) and 585 (3800m) [C.B. of F.]

LaGG-3:
560 km/h [jane's]
495 km/h (sea level) and 570 km/h (4000m) [C.B. of F.]

D520:
530 km/h [jane's]
425 km/h (sea level) and 534 km/h (5500m) [C.B. of F.]


The LaGG is too fast- but the Yak is more so!

I personally beleive the C.B. of F. as being more accurate; jane's does not list at what altitude top speed is attained, and is not as recent as the other book- C.B. of F. is 2001, Jane's is 1989, and it's very probable that more accurate info is available now

I'm surprised folks are saying Yak-1 as a D520. How do you figure? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif is it the info in Object Veiwer? I don't look there much, I go to the bookshelf

The Morko is unfortunately too close to the Morane fighters we have- which were also standard Armee de l'Air aircraft. Maybe the right skin would do it justice?

gx-warspite
10-09-2005, 10:18 AM
Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
No, not flyable. Player will be Luftwaffe

Yak-1 is much, much too fast for the D520, especially at altitude, and looks only very vaguely like the D520, don't you think? LaGG-3 is slower than the Yak-1, and looks similar to the D520. I have some Vichy "D520" skins for the LaGG that are quite convincing, but I'll try the Yak and see what happens

Bloch fighter is radial engined; LaGG is not. La5 resembles The Bloch MB151 superficially but is too fast. Not many MB 151s saw combat luckily, but I do so wnt to use it. Ki100 actually bears a resemblance but is much too good
Yak-1 is slower than either the MiG or the LaGG. I'm going by the speeds in the descriptions of the aircraft in-game. What Jane's says may have very little to do with what Il-2 actually does. It's true that the Bloch is radial engine and doesn't look like the LaGG, but as a performance match, the LaGG is closest IMO.

JtD
10-09-2005, 11:05 AM
In game I tested the Yak-1 as fast as 480, while the LaGG gets to 505. (Sealevel)

There were a lot of subverions for both planes, so a book that gives you just one number cannot be correct.

Top speed for both is about 570-580 according to IL-2 compare at about 5000 meters.

I find it odd that the Dewoitine is supposed to lose more than a 100 kph off it's top speed down low, the internet says 450ish, which sounds more convincing.

Chuck_Older
10-09-2005, 11:23 AM
rats. thanks for the heads-up, guys

Enforcer572005
10-09-2005, 01:21 PM
i think the early versions fo the lagg3 make a good D520, since it is nearly identical in appearance from a distance, and has similiar armament. the 520 was a pretty good fighter, at least a match for the 109 in good hands.

I think the early iar models are the best for the radial bloch fighters. they are not the best performers, so i think they may be kinda close. I wouldnt over emphasize the speed aspect since in close combat that falls off anyway.

you can always compensate performance difference by adjusting the skill level a bit. That makes a big difference in how they perform.

I wouldnt use any luftwaffe planes as french, its just not gonna help the realism aspect. Maybe the ki-46 in the role of some french fighter bombers, like the potez?

Chuck_Older
10-09-2005, 01:36 PM
Actually, we have a fair stand-in for the Potez. Check out the Pe-2

I just played a QMB dogfight, ace Yak-1 against me and my trusty Emil

Tough fight. I got him, but the speed disadvantage is telling. And the Yak is tough.

Enforcer572005
10-09-2005, 01:57 PM
i completely forgot about the pe2 and pe3.
well duh.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Chuck_Older
10-09-2005, 03:51 PM
To be fair, there's a lot of planes we don't think about much and we forget we have them!

Chuck_Older
10-12-2005, 09:49 AM
Been testing 'D520's a lot. LaGG and Yak can both get away from me in QMB, when I'm in a Bf 109E-4

When I'm flying a mission I've made, however, the LaGG and the Yak both want to stick around and fight. In that case, the LaGG isn't too fast at the altitudes at which I want to fight (~9000 ft), and it is a good choice for the D520, no matter what object viewer says

The Yak may have numbers that make it seem like the better choice, but an "Average" AI LaGG pilot provides a good challenge for the Emil