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Platypus_1.JaVA
02-15-2005, 09:12 AM
Womengamers, they do exist!! And they are pretty too! http://www.fragdolls.com/about.php

http://www.fragdolls.com/ss/group_big41.jpg

Platypus_1.JaVA
02-15-2005, 09:12 AM
Womengamers, they do exist!! And they are pretty too! http://www.fragdolls.com/about.php

http://www.fragdolls.com/ss/group_big41.jpg

womenfly
02-15-2005, 09:34 AM
"Any girl who has flown at all grows used to the prejudice of most men pilots who will trot out any number of reasons why women can't possibly be good pilots. . . . The only way to show the disbelievers, the snickering hangar pilots, is to show them."

€" Cornelia Fort, WAFS http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

Good for them! ... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

BSS_Goat
02-15-2005, 09:36 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif The one in the middle is Womenfly http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

Platypus_1.JaVA
02-15-2005, 09:43 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

KRISTORF
02-15-2005, 10:05 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

OOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

They can beat me anytime, anyplace, anywhere

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE

madsarmy
02-15-2005, 10:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Platypus_1.JaVA:
Womengamers, they do exist!! And they are pretty too! http://www.fragdolls.com/about.php

http://www.fragdolls.com/ss/group_big41.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
They have a forum then.
Thats how you've managed to get your post count Javahttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

T_O_A_D
02-15-2005, 10:22 AM
Cool your jets men!!!!

It's a ploy to break your concenetration.

They draw you into a poisioned mind set and frag you and your buddies.

Now that your calmed down lets think this through. There is no sence running in blindly with your focus out of wack. Lets move in slowly and precise and we can not only get one, but all of them if we work together on this. The Lone wolf will surely be taken down if he runs in with out back up.

carguy_
02-15-2005, 10:29 AM
IIRC there was a girl named Gella in VEF.She warped from time to time but she did shoot down many guys heheh

Once I ended her spree,the same thing she did to me. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

OldPepper
02-15-2005, 10:29 AM
Looks like the cast from next seasons "America's Next Top Model!" Which is a relief since they'll more likely be shooting each other down than poor me! &lt;S?

indylavi
02-15-2005, 10:34 AM
Oh the fragdolls. The industry backed marketing ploy to attract more female gamers while simultaneously encouraging the fantasy of male gamers that the person they are playing online with is a hot chick.

Seriously folks, I've seen a lot of female gamers and trust me, it ain't pretty http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Not that I haven't seen some pretty female gamers. My girlfriend being one of them. However, I refuse to accept any group of female gamers as a serious representation of the female market without at least one token fat chick.

Stiglr
02-15-2005, 10:35 AM
"Fragdolls"...hehehe, I like that.

Hey, I have nothing but respect for the tomboy pilots among us.

Back in Warbirds, I knew this one female pilot (whose husband also flew), and she was a holy terror in an Oscar.

I can recall one time when I ran into her online, and as I got outmaneuvered, I could tell it was her lighting me up with those little 7.7mm BBs....and I was right, she got the kill credit when I was forced to bail a few minutes later.

Then, a while later, I met her in person at a convention, and saw that she had this totally off-the-wall posture when she flew; she would put one foot up on the table (she used a twisty-stick for rudder), and one tucked against her side in the chair; it looked quasi-Kung Fu!!!

She was a *character*!!!! Very nice, genuine person, too.

Hats off to the female fliers!!! Guys, treat 'em all nice and don't be a troglodyte!

Owlsphone
02-15-2005, 10:37 AM
Those girls took on guys in a Counterstrike match and beat them in 45 seconds.

Saunders1953
02-15-2005, 10:38 AM
My niece is an Air Force Academy graduate, taught at the survivor school where they teach (or taught, anyway) Navy Seals, among others, and is now a Captain flying helicopters. She's only 135 pounds, max (looks about the size of the women standing in the doorway), but could kick my sorry a$$ in a heartbeat!

madsarmy
02-15-2005, 10:41 AM
UKs first Girl gamers Squadron has been started this week by West Country Girl Vicky Pollard.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v605/tommybomb/1264976.jpg
Vicky talking today

When asked if the Squadron would be using TeamSpeak she replied
"Yeah but no but yeah but no"

indylavi
02-15-2005, 10:45 AM
Good pic Madsarmy http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif Seriously though. I have nothing but respect for females in general but I refuse to take the FragDolls seriously. They get paid to play games. And to top it off if they looked like the girl in that pic posted by Mad we wouldn't even pay attention to them. It's just a marketing ploy. Sad but true

BenvZijl
02-15-2005, 11:19 AM
here in the NL i know many more women gamers(mostly counterstike gamers, not IL2 but thats not bad cause it improves realisme http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif)

Platypus_1.JaVA
02-15-2005, 11:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by madsarmy:

They have a forum then.
Thats how you've managed to get your post count Javahttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hah and I before I became Platypus_1.JaVA, I had two other UBI ID's. Platypus and Platypus_322sqn. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

You would have to add at least a thousand more if you take my previous ID's into account.

"Respect to the oldies on this forum!!!" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

DONB3397
02-15-2005, 11:27 AM
Women fly? My daughter has 3,000+ hours in military and civilian jets. She flies C5s and now C117s on weekends for the AF Reserves and 737s for American Airlines during the week.

She considers my sim addiction a vice, tolerated because the aged are infirm.

The good news is that she allows my granddaughter to fly with me...at least until she's old enough to reach the rudder peddals.

I'm hoping to get her (my granddaughter) firmly hooked on sims...so she can fly sims with me in my dotage.

Platypus_1.JaVA
02-15-2005, 11:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BenvZijl:
here in the NL i know many more women gamers(mostly counterstike gamers, not IL2 but thats not bad cause it improves realisme http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif Waar wonen die dan?

Platypus_1.JaVA
02-15-2005, 11:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by indylavi:
Oh the fragdolls. The industry backed marketing ploy to attract more female gamers while simultaneously encouraging the fantasy of male gamers that the person they are playing online with is a hot chick.

Seriously folks, I've seen a lot of female gamers and trust me, it ain't pretty http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Not that I haven't seen some pretty female gamers. My girlfriend being one of them. However, I refuse to accept any group of female gamers as a serious representation of the female market without at least one token fat chick. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I allready wondered, This looked too good to be true. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

ASM 1
02-15-2005, 11:35 AM
Ok their credibility has just dropped http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif
http://www.fragdolls.com/ss/FDs_with_Hulk_Hogan.jpg

lmao

indylavi
02-15-2005, 11:41 AM
My girlfriend plays flight sims. She was in the air force as well but Israel doesn't like female pilots so she was stuck being ground crew. She doesn't really play online much as she can't speak English too well. I'm sure there are other female simmers out there

madsarmy
02-15-2005, 11:49 AM
LOL java

This isnt my first account here either. We are both oldieshttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Unfortunately it's not just my account here thats the oldie. I'm old enough to be those girls fatherhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

73GIAP_Milan
02-15-2005, 12:14 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif Whow!

Fragdolls, a gift from the heavens http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

btw:
@ Benvzijl (and Platypus) ok, vertel mij ook eens waar ze wonen dan??, ben benieuwd http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

I never even attempted Counterstrike *kuche camperst..whatev.*, it must be that ^_^

Ow well, show me where those gamegirls live in the NL then

Blackdog5555
02-15-2005, 12:35 PM
Question:
1. Why cant girls fly upside down?

answer:

Because they will have a hairy crack up!

LOL...I know// cheers

woofiedog
02-15-2005, 12:40 PM
When are we getting Female Voices added for IL-2... considering the Soviet and other Female Air Units or Groups of WW2. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Lucius_Esox
02-15-2005, 12:43 PM
Lol ban time

________________________________________________

Question:
1. Why cant girls fly upside down?

answer:

Because they will have a hairy crack up!

LOL...I know// cheers

________________________________________________

I thought it was coz their tits got in the way of the joystick,,,,,,,,, yes I know as well!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

womenfly
02-15-2005, 12:46 PM
Sick joke .... Blackdog5555 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

Good point ... Woofiedog ... I like the idea! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Lucius_Esox
02-15-2005, 12:46 PM
Sorry meant windscreen

TheGozr
02-15-2005, 01:22 PM
I played with them for 4 days. Very nice indeed.

They are much more interested on playing FPS and Xbox games. If some of you would of come to the show in S-F i would introduce you to them.

I would like to see more the IL2 Girls.
I know only one and she is the badest of all. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif .

Swivet
02-15-2005, 01:51 PM
[QUOTE]
They can beat me anytime, anyplace, anywhere/QUOTE]


BOING!,no pun intended http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

Bearcat99
02-15-2005, 02:07 PM
There were quite a few good women pilots who flew in CFS .................. They usually came into the 100% servers and had the guys making all the usual schoolboy statements... till they got ripped to shreds....LOL..

Platypus_1.JaVA
02-15-2005, 02:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by woofiedog:
When are we getting Female Voices added for IL-2... considering the Soviet and other Female Air Units or Groups of WW2. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You can record your own voices for PF!! You can let your girlfriend do some recordings. A complete 'female' voice pack is maybe a bit too much. And, you'll need 9 voice actors for that.

Actor4 is the airfield tower.
Actor5 is the rear gunner.
Actor 2 or 3 is the voice of the bombers.

Email me at platypuspal@hotmail.com for details of making this work in PF if you have serious plans.

Platypus_1.JaVA
02-15-2005, 02:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by indylavi:
My girlfriend plays flight sims. She was in the air force as well but Israel doesn't like female pilots so she was stuck being ground crew. She doesn't really play online much as she can't speak English too well. I'm sure there are other female simmers out there <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I like the Israelian Air Force. Because they have a nice 'skin' on their aircraft. And because they did a cool action in 1981, in Iraq. We in Holland had a Female F-16 pilot. She even flew some combat missions over Bosnia Herzegovina. Ejected once. I believe she is now retired.

Platypus_1.JaVA
02-15-2005, 02:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BSS_Goat:
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif The one in the middle is Womenfly http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hah! Now I get it! With you, we had three messages in this thread. The second message was from "womenfly". She is in the middle http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

woofiedog
02-15-2005, 03:00 PM
madsarmy ... is there a Group Photo? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

EURO_Snoopy
02-15-2005, 03:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by madsarmy:
UKs first Girl gamers Squadron has been started this week by West Country Girl Vicky Pollard.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v605/tommybomb/1264976.jpg
Vicky talking today

When asked if the Squadron would be using TeamSpeak she replied
"Yeah but no but yeah but no" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

CFS Rabbash!! me and my friend are always sayin yer but no but deres dis ova thing u dont no bout yea and i wasnt even wid amber so i dont what ur talkin about yea but no but and we r always crakin up and i also like da man hu sez "im a ladyy me and u r alike becuz we r both ladys" and da man "yeeeees" ahahhahahahah little britian is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo funny!!!!
Doesn't matter ne way coz we got one of dese (sniffs pritt stick) Come on girls, lets gwo, dis place is RABBASH!"

madsarmy
02-15-2005, 03:43 PM
LMAO Snoopy

When Vicky Pollard first appeared I nearly died laughing as there is a girl in my town who is very much like her (even down to looks). When ever Little Britain is mentioned so is her name.

Has the US got Little Britain yet?

PBNA-Boosher
02-15-2005, 04:42 PM
3 numbers for you gentlemen: 586 IAP, 125th GvBAP, 46 GvNBAP.

zjulik
02-15-2005, 05:46 PM
This is called "toggle mirrors"
http://www.fragdolls.com/ss/group7.jpg

AFSG_Bulldog
02-15-2005, 06:50 PM
Did you read the "legal stuff"

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> 2001-2004 Ubisoft Entertainment. All Rights Reserved. Frag Dolls, Ubisoft, ubi.com, and the Ubisoft logo are trademarks of Ubisoft Entertainment in the U.S. and/or other countries.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How do I get Ubisoft to sponsor our group?

Agamemnon22
02-15-2005, 10:44 PM
Sponsor or own and operate? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

indylavi
02-16-2005, 12:20 AM
Platypus, the IAF is a good airforce. There is some Jewish law (faith law that is) that really discourages females in combat. While all Israeli's are drafted into the military. Women can get out of serving easily if they want to. This is why a lot of them are in police or support forces.

There are a lot of female gamers out there. There are even webrings devoted to female gaming. The problem is as others have pointed out. Anytime somebody mentions their a girl they get picked on. So most girls even if they do play online have a gender neutal name and shy away from squads

indylavi
02-16-2005, 12:22 AM
UBI owns the Frag dolls I think. Most of the games I've seen them hype are UBI products. What better way to get a bunch of gamers to come to your tables at E3 and whatnot. Dude that game looks like it sucks. Yeah dude but there's chicks over there.. It works like a charm http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

EURO_Snoopy
02-16-2005, 03:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by madsarmy:
LMAO Snoopy

When Vicky Pollard first appeared I nearly died laughing as there is a girl in my town who is very much like her (even down to looks). When ever Little Britain is mentioned so is her name.

Has the US got Little Britain yet? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just in case anyone hasn't heard of Little Britain here's a Video clip (http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/littlebritain/clips/series1/clip4.shtml) and a longer one (http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/tv/previews/previews.ram)

woofiedog
02-16-2005, 06:23 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gifHaven't watched any British humor since Faulty Towers... but this looks Pretty Good and I don't believe it's hit our shores yet. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

TacticalYak3
02-16-2005, 06:32 AM
Three pages about the fact there are female gamers? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

I would direct you guys to go get married but MOST of you are.

BTW there have been reports of females lurking in our public school systems, workplaces, and even in various social areas of our communities.

Run, run away guys! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

woofiedog
02-16-2005, 07:15 AM
PBNA-Boosher... Klavdia Nechayeva started her career in 586 IAP, but was later transfered to a male squadron, 434 IAP. She served under the ace squadron commander Ivan Ivanovich Klyeshchev, who had a total of 48 kills at the time of his death in a wartime flying accident.

Here is an account of her heroic sacrificial death in action while saving Klyeshchev's life, as recounted by 586 IAP's archivist Yekaterina Polunina:

"The wingman's duty was to protect the tail of the leader. When one of the girls, Nechayeva, was protecting the squadron commander, who was about to land, 3 Me-109s attacked them. She had no fuel or ammunition left, but she covered his aircraft with hers and everyone there saw her killed."

Link: http://wb586iap.r2.ru/soviet_woman_vvs.htm

Platypus_1.JaVA
02-16-2005, 09:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by indylavi:

Platypus, the IAF is a good airforce. There is some Jewish law (faith law that is) that really discourages females in combat. While all Israeli's are drafted into the military. Women can get out of serving easily if they want to. This is why a lot of them are in police or support forces. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So I've heard. We in Holland had the opposite. Our DoD thought there should be more women in our air-force so, if any girls joined the air-force school, they where given a better treatment. Like a few days in the month, they didn't need to take tests and stuff if they didn't want to, was one of the measures taken to get more women in the air-force. That's not very good for the quality of the graduates of course. And not very honest to male students.

Anyways, I would like to go on vacation to israel sometimes. A great country to visit I think. However, this is rather too expensive for me right now.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by indylavi:

(blabla)

There are a lot of female gamers out there. There are even webrings devoted to female gaming. The problem is as others have pointed out. Anytime somebody mentions their a girl they get picked on. So most girls even if they do play online have a gender neutal name and shy away from squads <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So, it just might be not a good idea that I started this thread? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

indylavi
02-16-2005, 09:20 AM
Israel is a great country to go and see. You'd be surprised about how safe it is. Now don't fool yourself, it can get dicey if you go into certain areas but overall it's extremely quiet and nice.

I don't think the thread hurt anybody http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Honestly I'm not sure if any girls are in the forums. If there are girls here does that mean I have to put on pants http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Platypus_1.JaVA
02-16-2005, 09:30 AM
Pants? not needed of course. I'm just out of work, in need of a shower and a shave http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

madsarmy
02-16-2005, 10:38 AM
<span class="ev_code_RED">Full UK Girl Gamers Team Announced</span>
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v605/tommybomb/ukteam.jpg

stathem
02-16-2005, 10:42 AM
That's gonna do a world of good for our tourist industry, Mads, http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

But FAF none the less

madsarmy
02-16-2005, 10:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by stathem:
That's gonna do a world of good for our tourist industry, Mads, http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL! I could of picked some ugly Women but thought better of it.

EURO_Snoopy
02-16-2005, 10:50 AM
Crikes guys, I haven't laughed so much in ages, cheers!

stathem
02-16-2005, 10:52 AM
I take it Patsy will be flying a Yak?

Platypus_1.JaVA
02-16-2005, 11:49 AM
The Little Brittain movieclip was quite funny but, since I am a foreigner, I didn't understand the conversation actually. Or is that the whole point of it?

Platypus_1.JaVA
02-16-2005, 11:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AFSG_Bulldog:
Did you read the "legal stuff"

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> 2001-2004 Ubisoft Entertainment. All Rights Reserved. Frag Dolls, Ubisoft, ubi.com, and the Ubisoft logo are trademarks of Ubisoft Entertainment in the U.S. and/or other countries.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How do I get Ubisoft to sponsor our group? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pick a suitable picture from the internet and ask UBI if they will support an all women Il-2 PF squad, it is easy http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

LeadSpitter_
02-16-2005, 02:56 PM
http://barnabys.blogs.com/neverhappened/images/t-lvn-1609.jpg

madsarmy
02-16-2005, 03:01 PM
FFB! then Lead http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

woofiedog
02-16-2005, 03:12 PM
madsarmy... Love that Team Photo http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif
Pretty Scrary! I bet they don't even shave their legs.

notgoodknight
02-16-2005, 07:24 PM
marketing ploy

Lucius_Esox
02-17-2005, 01:55 AM
notgoodnight,,,, Doh!!!! I never saw that http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Now what does "irony" mean http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Extreme_One
02-17-2005, 02:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:
http://barnabys.blogs.com/neverhappened/images/t-lvn-1609.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

EURO_Snoopy
02-17-2005, 03:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:
http://barnabys.blogs.com/neverhappened/images/t-lvn-1609.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

lol lead, you must be the type of guy who likes to kick his shoes off and run across a mine field!