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naran6142
08-08-2011, 07:25 AM
So was reading a little bit on the story of adam and eve and I read that cain was their first son.

From the truth in AC2 we learn the cain was the first Templar. And Adam and Eve were the first assassins right? We know that the goals of the two groups is the same, so I guess its possible that they started out as the same organization but was separated by how they thought they should achieve their goal.

I'm bring this up cause i wasn't sure if this was a confirmed idea from the truth in AC2(it been a while since i last solved all the puzzles)

I'm not sure what significance this will have on the story but I'm hoping that we learn a lot more about TWCB in ACR

LightRey
08-08-2011, 07:33 AM
It has never been stated anywhere (reliable) that Adam and Eve were even associated with the Assassins.

naran6142
08-08-2011, 08:10 AM
Originally posted by LightRey:
It has never been stated anywhere (reliable) that Adam and Eve were even associated with the Assassins.

good to no i haven't missed again thing.

but they stole the apple from those who came before to rebel against them(thats what i assumed). so that sorta makes them like the assassins fighting for the people

but they weren't one or the other. That difference was made when one side wanted peace through control and the other through maintian free will(this is all my own thoughts)

Sparty2020
08-08-2011, 08:34 AM
That remains in the realm of speculation, but I agree with your thoughts on the concept that the two may have been the same once but divided over their actions. There has been no official information as to the true origins of the Assassins/Templars aside from the Glyph in AC2 with Cain and the Templar cross

Poodle_of_Doom
08-08-2011, 12:25 PM
I'm sorry, but I think I missed something here. How do you figure that the goals of the Assassins and Templars are the same? I thought the Templars sought control; where the assassins sought freedom?

naran6142
08-08-2011, 12:53 PM
Originally posted by Poodle_of_Doom:
I'm sorry, but I think I missed something here. How do you figure that the goals of the Assassins and Templars are the same? I thought the Templars sought control; where the assassins sought freedom?

both seek world peace but the method by which they tried and accomplish are very different

your right the templars want control to protect humanity but the assassins fight for peace while maintaining free will. remember in AC1 how all of your targets believe what they were doing was the right thing.

Poodle_of_Doom
08-08-2011, 03:06 PM
Originally posted by naran6142:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Poodle_of_Doom:
I'm sorry, but I think I missed something here. How do you figure that the goals of the Assassins and Templars are the same? I thought the Templars sought control; where the assassins sought freedom?

both seek world peace but the method by which they tried and accomplish are very different

your right the templars want control to protect humanity but the assassins fight for peace while maintaining free will. remember in AC1 how all of your targets believe what they were doing was the right thing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, I don't think that's it. I think that the Templars are fighting to enslave humanity, while the Assassins are fighting to maintain freedom.

Mikatsuki95
08-08-2011, 03:38 PM
The templars believe order and enslavement is peace. The assassins believe by killing the wicked they preserve peace. Sadly its a fight they will inevitably lose. As long as the people remain ignorant of the enslavement others wish to place upon them, the fight will continue. It is a fight over the people after all. But if they knew full well what they are trying to impose, they could guard their own freedom. The assassins would not be as necessary and the templars would ultimately fail. After all the only reason they can operate is through secrecy.
I mean if abstergo went out publicly and said "we are templars, and we have been working to enslave humanity for the last several centuries." I sincerely doubt the people would lie down quietly and let them continue.

LightRey
08-08-2011, 04:04 PM
Originally posted by Poodle_of_Doom:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by naran6142:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Poodle_of_Doom:
I'm sorry, but I think I missed something here. How do you figure that the goals of the Assassins and Templars are the same? I thought the Templars sought control; where the assassins sought freedom?

both seek world peace but the method by which they tried and accomplish are very different

your right the templars want control to protect humanity but the assassins fight for peace while maintaining free will. remember in AC1 how all of your targets believe what they were doing was the right thing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, I don't think that's it. I think that the Templars are fighting to enslave humanity, while the Assassins are fighting to maintain freedom. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well the Templars seem to want to enslave humanity for their own good (at least that's how they see it). I think that's basically what naran6142 said.

Poodle_of_Doom
08-08-2011, 09:02 PM
Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Poodle_of_Doom:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by naran6142:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Poodle_of_Doom:
I'm sorry, but I think I missed something here. How do you figure that the goals of the Assassins and Templars are the same? I thought the Templars sought control; where the assassins sought freedom?

both seek world peace but the method by which they tried and accomplish are very different

your right the templars want control to protect humanity but the assassins fight for peace while maintaining free will. remember in AC1 how all of your targets believe what they were doing was the right thing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, I don't think that's it. I think that the Templars are fighting to enslave humanity, while the Assassins are fighting to maintain freedom. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well the Templars seem to want to enslave humanity for their own good (at least that's how they see it). I think that's basically what naran6142 said. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, this I could agree with. The key part of your statement is that they are pursuing they're "own good",... not that this pursuit is good in itself, which I don't necessarily think it is.

Mikatsuki95
08-08-2011, 09:13 PM
Yeah no chance it is. Those guys truly have no faith in humanity, that they cant lead their own lives without someone telling them everything to do. I use to think the same way but I realized thinking like that couldnt actually make things any better.

naran6142
08-08-2011, 09:46 PM
Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Poodle_of_Doom:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by naran6142:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Poodle_of_Doom:
I'm sorry, but I think I missed something here. How do you figure that the goals of the Assassins and Templars are the same? I thought the Templars sought control; where the assassins sought freedom?

both seek world peace but the method by which they tried and accomplish are very different

your right the templars want control to protect humanity but the assassins fight for peace while maintaining free will. remember in AC1 how all of your targets believe what they were doing was the right thing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, I don't think that's it. I think that the Templars are fighting to enslave humanity, while the Assassins are fighting to maintain freedom. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well the Templars seem to want to enslave humanity for their own good (at least that's how they see it). I think that's basically what naran6142 said. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

OMG LightRey mention my name http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif ... lol jokes dude

@ Mikatsuki95

yeah, i think the only way to for the world to progress is to have faith in humanity

i believe at the core all people are good and want to do the right thing

Mikatsuki95
08-08-2011, 11:36 PM
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks that.

LightRey
08-09-2011, 12:12 AM
Originally posted by Mikatsuki95:
Yeah no chance it is. Those guys truly have no faith in humanity, that they cant lead their own lives without someone telling them everything to do. I use to think the same way but I realized thinking like that couldnt actually make things any better.
That's a nice way to put it.
And I agree, the Templars have a point of view that's small minded imo.
The thing is that saying the world would be at peace if all humans are under the full control of the same person/organization is like saying the world would be at peace if there were no people. Both are true, of course, but from this perspective it seems wiping out humanity would be just as good an idea as controlling it.


OMG LightRey mention my name http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif ... lol jokes dude

I'm getting quite the reputation on this forum aren't I? xD

masterfenix2009
08-09-2011, 02:10 AM
Actually, I believe the in the Templar order. I have no faith what so ever in humanity. We will fight each other until we are all dead. I believe at the core humans are bad. Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Humanity will always remain ignorant and stupid. But as a choice, I would choose the Assassins side because it is some what morally better.

Mikatsuki95
08-09-2011, 02:45 AM
If we're all just a bunch of fighting dumb animals, then the templars are just animals enslaving other animals, and thats just plain stupid.
By your own viewpoint joining the assassins would be stupid and a waste of your time. Since we'd all kill each other in the end. Even the templar order is pointless and once they enslave humans they'll kill each other. And thats within the things you just said and your logic.

While we're all free to our beliefs, I respectfully and strongly disagree with yours.

masterfenix2009
08-09-2011, 04:59 AM
Originally posted by Mikatsuki95:
If we're all just a bunch of fighting dumb animals, then the templars are just animals enslaving other animals, and thats just plain stupid.
By your own viewpoint joining the assassins would be stupid and a waste of your time. Since we'd all kill each other in the end. Even the templar order is pointless and once they enslave humans they'll kill each other. And thats within the things you just said and your logic.

While we're all free to our beliefs, I respectfully and strongly disagree with yours. I never said animals did I? And I meant humanity as a whole.

EX: Class is loud and noisy. But three kids are being good. But the class as a whole is bad.

So, what I am saying is, most of humanity is easy to corrupt, but there are the few that are not corruptible. Humanity as a whole is corrupt.

Yes, joining the assassins would be a waste of time, but I don't want to be mine controlled. Kind of like exercising. I just want to be lazy and sit down. I don't like the thought of being controlled, even though it is better for me. I don't want to work out even though it is better for me.

If the Templars didn't have the piece of eden, then, yes, it would be entirely pointless. But with the P.O.E, after they brainwashed everyone they could use it to brainwash themselves.

Subject_4
08-09-2011, 05:08 AM
This is a great topic in which to explore the differences between templars and assassins thousands of years ago (what little we can glean) and now. First off, I think it is largely necessary to throw away what the bible says, in relation to the Assassin's Creed universe. "THE TRUTH" is not compatible with the bible, by virtue of the rigid system of beliefs, particularly in regards to the origin of man.

That said, at the time of Eden, likely, there was no individual designation of templar or assassin. But there almost certainly was 2 separate groups of people, after the downfall of TWCB, one wanting absolute power and a forced choice, the other wanting the freedom to choose. However, at this point in time there is no Christianity, and, possibly little beyond what would become known as paganism. As time passes and we get to the point where Christianity exists a templar order would be established, but this is not until some time after 1000CE. The Hashashin (Assassin) order probably came a short time before. As we get to 1191, we see the events of Assassins Creed(I).
This was a perfect time to portray it (from a game design point of view) showing the inherent differences in the philosophy of the Muslims and the Christians, and how they came at odds. If you have not, I suggest listening to the criers in the various towns of ACI, you will soon get an idea of their point of view.

Skip ahead to the late 1400s and early 1500s and you have the dawn of the renaissance, and people fighting against the stifling oppressiveness that became the Catholic church. In this universe, it is a corrupt force driven by corrupt leaders empowering corrupt families.. who are entirely willing to destroy the church for their own gain (ACB: Cesare: Soon we will not need the church any longer")... but with similar goals.. to enforce peace upon people without choice, and without freedom to make choices. (Cluster 8: "Freedom from pornography, freedom from democracy".

Skip ahead now to the 20th century, and in hindsight, the public probably never saw it coming, but around 1923 (I believe) Abstergo is founded as a corporation. They were already well placed in governments all around the world (They were behind World War II, and the Iraq war at least, from information found in clusters. But as the 20th century rolled along, the power came to the corporations, and Abstergo has their hands in all of them, but as a name they are well out of the public eye. On at least some level they can manipulate governments or outright control them. For example in ACB Lucy mentions they are still watching the border, watching a border of any length would require great manpower.

So while at core they are templars, the nature of the "beast" has changed a lot over the years according to the times. But I suspect that one constant is they have increased in size where the assassins have mostly gotten smaller in size.

Subject 4

Mikatsuki95
08-09-2011, 05:23 AM
I have faith that humanity will one day finally stop asking for others to give them their future, and start progressing as a species, guiding their own path. And I know everyday we get closer to that day.

I also have faith that you (while a total stranger to me) will learn humanity isnt as bad as you think. If I was to join the assassins (if youve seen my topic you know I would) I would consider this my leap of faith.

@Subject4:It just occurred to me, the assassins and the templars kinda act like a bunch of babysitters to me. They see humanity as an ignorant mass that cant fend its own freedom or gives itself direction. If the assassins wanted to end the war with the templars, they need to teach the people what they know. Show them the people who have been trying to enslave them. I mean secrecy is the only reason the templars' power had spread so much. Seems the best option to me if they want this war to end and preserve freedom. I mean they cant compare to the templars with money and thanks to Daniel Cross, they now have to live in secluded small knit communities so good bye to having a big HQ.

Subject_4
08-09-2011, 05:32 AM
My belief, As long as a person can do evil, at least one will do evil. This has not changed in, depending on your beliefs, 5000 years... or 500000 years. It is not going to change now.

There will always be a struggle. It may be small or it may be titanic. But it will be there.

Subject 4

Mikatsuki95
08-09-2011, 05:56 AM
Know why it wont change? Cuz too many people talk like that and figure just cuz their ancestors died making that mistake, then that means they cant learn from them and do different, do better actually. History is meant to be learnt from, not repeated. whatever struggle we may have is nothing we cant get over.

'sighs deeply' its late and I can tell theres nothing more I'll want to add to this topic anymore.

LightRey
08-09-2011, 10:05 AM
Well, I'm not going to read all of that, cause I finally have some actual free time and I'm not going to spend it reading long pieces of text, but I'll just state what I myself think of humanity.

Many, if not most of us are indeed lazy, arrogant, selfish, cruel, (metaphorically) braindead beings. However, though this may be the case, I am still convinced of the absolute final justice of nature. I'm not implying that nature can actually think or is manipulated by anything that can. I'm merely stating that Nature will, in the end, always an absolute judgement on anything.

I'll explain how. Evolution. It's really as simple as that. If our behavior is bad for us it will eventually be rooted out by evolution or our lifestyles will change in such a way that it will be good for us or, of course, we all die.

Now someone could argue that Evolution does not (necessarily) exist in the AC universe. However, they're wrong. Yes, it's quite likely that evolution is not the cause of humans, or even life in general in the AC universe. However, that doesn't mean Evolution doesn't exist. It's based on simple and very basic logical principles. Principles that make up some of the most basic laws of nature.

Now one could finally argue that the Templars doing what they do is technically part of evolution. This is true of course. However, so is resisting the Templars of course.
Also, there's the fact that everything beneficial to at the very least human evolution has to do with becoming more free-minded, not less. The Templars seem to be heading into the direction of the insects. Yes, they're highly successful life-forms, but all of the ones that live in hives are small and yes, they most definitely can get bigger than that, even with today's oxygen levels.

damn, now instead of reading a long piece of text I wrote one. :/

blazefp
08-09-2011, 03:49 PM
Originally posted by LightRey:
Well, I'm not going to read all of that, cause I finally have some actual free time and I'm not going to spend it reading long pieces of text, but I'll just state what I myself think of humanity.

Many, if not most of us are indeed lazy, arrogant, selfish, cruel, (metaphorically) braindead beings. However, though this may be the case, I am still convinced of the absolute final justice of nature. I'm not implying that nature can actually think or is manipulated by anything that can. I'm merely stating that Nature will, in the end, always an absolute judgement on anything.


I've no formed idea of this stuff yet but lets say this is true.



I'll explain how. Evolution. It's really as simple as that. If our behavior is bad for us it will eventually be rooted out by evolution or our lifestyles will change in such a way that it will be good for us or, of course, we all die.

true (even thoug it's just a explanation)



Now someone could argue that Evolution does not (necessarily) exist in the AC universe. However, they're wrong. Yes, it's quite likely that evolution is not the cause of humans, or even life in general in the AC universe. However, that doesn't mean Evolution doesn't exist. It's based on simple and very basic logical principles. Principles that make up some of the most basic laws of nature.

True


Now one could finally argue that the Templars doing what they do is technically part of evolution. This is true of course. However, so is resisting the Templars of course.
Also, there's the fact that everything beneficial to at the very least human evolution has to do with becoming more free-minded, not less. The Templars seem to be heading into the direction of the insects. Yes, they're highly successful life-forms, but all of the ones that live in hives are small and yes, they most definitely can get bigger than that, even with today's oxygen levels.

True again



damn, now instead of reading a long piece of text I wrote one. :/

And very thruth xP

I didn't actually said anything, I just wanted to give some credits to Light_Rey's ideas (and patience) xD

Warforger
08-09-2011, 03:58 PM
Originally posted by Poodle_of_Doom:
I'm sorry, but I think I missed something here. How do you figure that the goals of the Assassins and Templars are the same? I thought the Templars sought control; where the assassins sought freedom?

Well if the Subject 16 puzzles are to be believed, the Templar's want to create a society where people are safe and work forever and not aspire to be anything greater, the Assasin's want humanity to progress. And I think it's implied in the puzzles that the Communists were Assasin's but I can't tell (even though they're the exact goal of the Templars).

LightRey
08-09-2011, 05:01 PM
Originally posted by Warforger:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Poodle_of_Doom:
I'm sorry, but I think I missed something here. How do you figure that the goals of the Assassins and Templars are the same? I thought the Templars sought control; where the assassins sought freedom?

Well if the Subject 16 puzzles are to be believed, the Templar's want to create a society where people are safe and work forever and not aspire to be anything greater, the Assasin's want humanity to progress. And I think it's implied in the puzzles that the Communists were Assasin's but I can't tell (even though they're the exact goal of the Templars). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I don't think the puzzles really suggest the communists were assassins, but rather that they were strong advocates of the ideals of communism and helped trigger the communist revolutions. They also seem to suggest that the Templars countered these events by corrupting the communist governments, it's susceptibility to this is a weakness that really is communism's greatest flaw.

As for the goals of the Assassins and the Templars I would like to point out that Al Mualim states that Robert, like the assassins, sought peace in the holy land, which makes it their common goal. Eventually the two groups scaled up their ideals to world peace, with the difference between the two being that the Assassins want to maintain free will, while the Templars want to force peace upon the people.

Subject_4
08-09-2011, 06:36 PM
Indeed, as yet we have not seen the assassin templar paradigm in the context of communism, so it's virtually impossible to guess, but based on the top secret phone records form 1992, I would hazard to guess that the templars have had little sway in Russia during the time of communism. If this is true it really does not mean the communists are assassins either, or sympathetic to them, nor even aware of them.

Subject 4

AdmiralPerry
08-09-2011, 06:47 PM
To the couple of people asking why don't the Assassins just inform the general public about the Templars and their goals... If they did that, then we'd have a lot of Assassins locked up in a padded room. Not that it would necessarily be a problem for them, LOL. But, think about it. If they come out and say, "Hey, peeps, listen up! There's these two secret groups, and one of them wants to control every aspect of your life! They've already got their hands in the government and the big corporations! But we're here to fight them and make sure that doesn't happen!" then no one is really gonna listen to them. A few might, but the majority won't. They'd come off sounding like lunatics.

Sparty2020
08-10-2011, 09:06 AM
The day the humanity accepts their own lives will be the day they step away from religion and politics. Only when people stop thinking supernaturally, stop generalizing things such as "fate" and "destiny", and stop begging others to save them will they accept their own lives. Unfortunately this will never happen because for every strong-willed person there are a thousand weak-willed people.

I imagine the Assassin/Templar struggle similar to the whole Zoo/Wilderness argument. Left free in the wild animals starve, they kill each other, they resort to cannibalism (When a male lion gets a new mate he eats all of his mates cubs and a female dog regularly devours her own pups if she finds them "corrupter"). They murder, steal, and live an existence in which they aren't entirely sure if they'll live to see the next day. But they're free and they're allowed to make their own choices, whether good or ill.

In a zoo animals are cared for, fed, tended, provided everything they need, and are given what is essentially a life of luxurious but they are also placed in a cage and can't even roar or howl without their warden's permission.

While not 100% accurate this simile describes the Assassin/Templar struggle rather well. For every one person who chooses to live day-by-day in the wild with no guarantees of tomorrow there are a thousand who choose to give up their freedom in exchange for the guarantee of a "perfect" life.

LightRey
08-10-2011, 02:58 PM
Originally posted by Sparty2020:
The day the humanity accepts their own lives will be the day they step away from religion and politics. Only when people stop thinking supernaturally, stop generalizing things such as "fate" and "destiny", and stop begging others to save them will they accept their own lives. Unfortunately this will never happen because for every strong-willed person there are a thousand weak-willed people.

I imagine the Assassin/Templar struggle similar to the whole Zoo/Wilderness argument. Left free in the wild animals starve, they kill each other, they resort to cannibalism (When a male lion gets a new mate he eats all of his mates cubs and a female dog regularly devours her own pups if she finds them "corrupter"). They murder, steal, and live an existence in which they aren't entirely sure if they'll live to see the next day. But they're free and they're allowed to make their own choices, whether good or ill.

In a zoo animals are cared for, fed, tended, provided everything they need, and are given what is essentially a life of luxurious but they are also placed in a cage and can't even roar or howl without their warden's permission.

While not 100% accurate this simile describes the Assassin/Templar struggle rather well. For every one person who chooses to live day-by-day in the wild with no guarantees of tomorrow there are a thousand who choose to give up their freedom in exchange for the guarantee of a "perfect" life.
You do realize that most zoo animals are probably clinically insane right?

blazefp
08-10-2011, 05:43 PM
Originally posted by Sparty2020:
The day the humanity accepts their own lives will be the day they step away from religion and politics. Only when people stop thinking supernaturally, stop generalizing things such as "fate" and "destiny", and stop begging others to save them will they accept their own lives. Unfortunately this will never happen because for every strong-willed person there are a thousand weak-willed people.

I imagine the Assassin/Templar struggle similar to the whole Zoo/Wilderness argument. Left free in the wild animals starve, they kill each other, they resort to cannibalism (When a male lion gets a new mate he eats all of his mates cubs and a female dog regularly devours her own pups if she finds them "corrupter"). They murder, steal, and live an existence in which they aren't entirely sure if they'll live to see the next day. But they're free and they're allowed to make their own choices, whether good or ill.

In a zoo animals are cared for, fed, tended, provided everything they need, and are given what is essentially a life of luxurious but they are also placed in a cage and can't even roar or howl without their warden's permission.

While not 100% accurate this simile describes the Assassin/Templar struggle rather well. For every one person who chooses to live day-by-day in the wild with no guarantees of tomorrow there are a thousand who choose to give up their freedom in exchange for the guarantee of a "perfect" life.


Well, to start, when humanity steps away from religion, WW3 sets off. Religion, in a ultimate way, is a brake to self interests, however it's also very often an excuse to the same. But after the maths are all done, it's a good thing, it's a good way to control peoples rage 'n stuff.

I don't have a well formed opinion about the politics issue but it seems to me that, in theory, politics are a good idea. A bunch of smart, wide open mind guys running the society in a right direction seems fine to me.
Rules are needed whether you want it or not, otherwise humanity would be driven crazy. We are more savages than wild animals and don't forget we have the power to destroy the world more than once. As Alta´r said: (not quoted) "humans have a method to survive that seems to imply others humans' death" (or sth like this). The law of the strongest never applies to humans.

Besides, before accepting ourselves lives, we have to understand what really is life. I never accept anything that I don't understand. So if you'r willing to give an answer on this, just say sth.

And to finish, wild animals (and pets too) don't live, they survive. It's different. Living implies surviving, not the opposite. Having a life doesn't also means that you'r living, it just means you have the ability to change, to adapt.
Analogy moment: I have a PS2, but I don't play with it. This means I don't use it, I just have it.
As Shaun said once: "If you don't change, you'r dead, so if you are alive, you must change" (again, sth like that, I can't remember the exact words)
It's a necessary factor, but not sufficient enough.


Damn I started philosophizing and I lost myself xD
Say something wrong for me to continue my critic xP

Sry for the messed up ideas.

LightRey
08-10-2011, 06:01 PM
Many people say that human conflicts (such as wars) are unnatural phenomena. I'm inclined to disagree. Most species tend to suffer from inner conflicts when they've achieved such a level of success. These conflicts are usually things like males fighting for dominance and things like that. These conflicts have quite a clear evolutionary purpose. They're ways for successful species to still have a form of natural selection. I think conflicts such as wars are simply extreme versions of this, which would make sense given our extreme successes.

There seems to be this strange thing about nature that makes order come from chaos. It seems so contradictory.