PDA

View Full Version : Spitfire Carb Question



XyZspineZyX
10-20-2003, 01:14 PM
I'm wondering if the Spit in the new add-on will reflect the tendency for the engine to sputter in a steep pitch forward, generating negative g's?

In the real world, that gave a Bf-109 jockey a slightly better chance of getting out of trouble, and it'd be nice to see this slight defect reflected in the game.

XyZspineZyX
10-20-2003, 01:14 PM
I'm wondering if the Spit in the new add-on will reflect the tendency for the engine to sputter in a steep pitch forward, generating negative g's?

In the real world, that gave a Bf-109 jockey a slightly better chance of getting out of trouble, and it'd be nice to see this slight defect reflected in the game.

XyZspineZyX
10-20-2003, 01:19 PM
I'd think so.

The Hurri Mk.I already does stutter under negative Gs /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://franz.lampl.bei.t-online.de/toryusig.jpg (http://www.virtual-jabog32.de)

http://franz.lampl.bei.t-online.de/toryusig2.jpg (http://www.jg68.de.vu)

When once you have tasted flight,
you will always walk the earth
with your eyes turned skyward;
to where you have been
and to where you always want to return.

XyZspineZyX
10-20-2003, 01:32 PM
I dunno if we're geting a mk.I But I think the carb problem was mostly solved in the mk.V variant.. which we will definitely be getting..

Anyhows.. It shouldn't be such a problem for the spit pilots, executing a half roll and diving inverted after the 109s was a good tactic as the 109 pilots would pull out of the dive early (before the controls became too stiff at the inceased speed) allowing the spit pilot a good chance to shoot 'em up.

http://www.mikerian.com/HAS/sept/09436.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-20-2003, 01:35 PM
I doubt it, they cured that problem by the time we got the MK V, it was also cured in the Hurricane. There was a simple Diaphragm type modification fitted to the carbuerettor on Merlins that prevented it from starving itself of fuel in Neg. G's. and wait for it, it was invented by a women. I am not a sexist and do not wish to create any flames but women do not frequently invent things. Especially something so important to the war effort.

XyZspineZyX
10-20-2003, 01:38 PM
I believe you're talking about 'Miss Shilling's orifice'.here's something I found about it...

'In 1940, when Hurricane and Spitfire pilots encountered a life-or-death carburettor problem, she was already a highly regarded scientist at the Royal Aircraft Establishnient at Farnborough. The problem which landed on her desk in the carburation department was this: pilots were obliged to turn on their backs in combat to dive because the "negative-G" of simply putting the nose down resulted in starving the engine, causing it to splutter or cut out.
This was a critical defect since the Daimler-Benz engine powering enemy Me 109s permitted Luftwaffe pilots to perform the manoeuvre unhindered. Miss Shilling came up with a simple stop-gap device which cost less, as it happened, than a shilling.
Nicknamed "Miss Shilling's Orifice", it was a metal disc about the size of an old threepenny bit, with a small hole in the middle. It was brazed into the fighter's fuel pipe, and when the pilot accelerated in a dive the disc stopped even momentary starvation of the Merlin engine. By March 1941 Miss Shilling's Orifice had been installed
throughout Fighter Command, sufficing until replaced by an improved carburettor.'
This problem was not solved until an improved carb was adopted for the late production Mk V and later models.


-----
In memory of 'The Few'
<img src=http://www.lima1.co.uk/Sharkey/spitfire.jpg>
The Tangmere Pilots - http://www.tangmerepilots-raf.co.uk/
Know your enemy and know yourself; in a hundred battles, you will never be defeated.

XyZspineZyX
10-20-2003, 01:55 PM
Thanks, fellas- Good info.

XyZspineZyX
10-20-2003, 05:31 PM
Classicaero wrote:
- I am not a
- sexist and do not wish to create any flames but
- women do not frequently invent things. Especially
- something so important to the war effort.
-
-

Read and learn:

http://inventors.about.com/library/blwomeninventors.htm

XyZspineZyX
10-20-2003, 07:38 PM
No, it wasn't solved until later variants of Merlin like Merlin 45,50 in '43. All british fighters prior '43 suffered from this problem ( even if less than in '40). What you see now in FB with HurriII is pure fantasy.


<center> http://www.stormbirds.com/images/discussion-main.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
10-20-2003, 08:05 PM
Huckebein_FW wrote:
- No, it wasn't solved until later variants of Merlin
- like Merlin 45,50 in '43. All british fighters prior
- '43 suffered from this problem ( even if less than
- in '40). What you see now in FB with HurriII is pure
- fantasy.
-
-
- <center> <img
- src="http://www.stormbirds.com/images/discussion-m
- ain.jpg"> </center>

W/ your track record I would about discount anything u say until u show your own rearch and your own paper documents and not try to get others to do your search.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid84/pcf14831e07273a1e01a33fb0e5650ffa/face10c7.jpg


Lead Whiner for the P-47D-40, M and N and Hvars

XyZspineZyX
10-20-2003, 08:25 PM
First negative G carburetors were installed on Merlin 45 in 1943. Keep in mind that carburated engines always suffered from various kinds of fuel cut-off, no matter what solution was used. The only real solution for a piston fighter aircraft is to abandon carburated engine all together and replace them with fuel injected engines.


<center> http://www.stormbirds.com/images/discussion-main.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
10-20-2003, 08:37 PM
What you see now for HurriII FM is made to spare some computing power. Probably the engine was harder to shut down in neg-G condition, but it certainly lost power.

A similar approach was adopted to save computing power for the behaviour of constant speed propeller fighters going in a steep dive. What you see now is that the engine is never overreved, when in reality it takes some time for the propeller pitch to select the coarse pitch, time in which without cutting the power you certainly overrev the engine. German propellers mechanisms were the fastest in changing the pitch, fact recognized by all the pilots who flew or encoutered them.

But pitch change in FB is of course the slowest in german planes. Again a known advantage of the german planes is tranformed in a disadvantage.


<center> http://www.stormbirds.com/images/discussion-main.jpg </center>