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Bull_dog_
12-24-2003, 06:36 PM
I can tell from flying on line that I am not getting nearly all I can from my aircraft...A Ki-84 caught me in a shallow dive while I was in a Jug...I have repeatedly been out run by Fw-190D's...and then when I'm in one, Mustangs and Yak 3's catch me...I know its me but I am not sure what I'm doing wrong. I've have 109K's outclimb me when I'm in a 109K!!!

I know that it isn't the energy state either...these instances I'm referring to is when the enemy plane is in a roughly equal or slightly worse energy state than I am.

Is there a guide, other than the one on PDF disc 2 that gives settings or any other helpful hints?

Bull_dog_
12-24-2003, 06:36 PM
I can tell from flying on line that I am not getting nearly all I can from my aircraft...A Ki-84 caught me in a shallow dive while I was in a Jug...I have repeatedly been out run by Fw-190D's...and then when I'm in one, Mustangs and Yak 3's catch me...I know its me but I am not sure what I'm doing wrong. I've have 109K's outclimb me when I'm in a 109K!!!

I know that it isn't the energy state either...these instances I'm referring to is when the enemy plane is in a roughly equal or slightly worse energy state than I am.

Is there a guide, other than the one on PDF disc 2 that gives settings or any other helpful hints?

LEXX_Luthor
12-24-2003, 07:14 PM
First, tell us what you are doing.

Don't use P~47 myself. Does it have manual mixture? If you don't use it in the Russian planes you are crippled at high altitude.


__________________
RUSSIAN lexx website http://www.lexx.ufo.ru/stan.shtml
Stanly is a moron, kai is a walking dead beet, Xev just want sex.

ZG77_Lignite
12-24-2003, 10:32 PM
Though its necessary to have an understanding of engine management, its not particularly important in a dogfight. By WWII (especially late) props and engines were 'automatic' enough to not require much pilot control. It is highly possible to 'outperform' other pilots (both historically and in FB) while running at reduced engine power.

IMHO (in my humble opinion), what you need is a course on Energy Management. This is an in-depth subject, and is simple in concept, dificult in practice. Do an internet search, or there are some extremely good articles at SimHQ.com regarding this interesting subject.

FI-Aflak
12-24-2003, 10:49 PM
Ok, I just got into CEM myself (and now the Jug can school anything at alt over 7000m)

There are only two things you need to worry about: Radiators and prop pitch.

Radiators: Closed is faster, but you heat your engine up more quickly. Typically, I fly with them open when I'm climbing, with them at position 4 while I'm cruising, and closed in a fight (until my motor starts overheating, anyway.)

Prop pitch: Think of it like gears for an automobile. 100% is first gear, and, say, 80% is fifth gear.

when flying straight/level at 110% throttle, when your acceleration starts to slow decrease, lower the prop pitch a notch. You can generally fly the Jug at 550-570km/h at most altitudes (high actual, but lower IAS as you go higher).

So, I usually use 100%-90% in climbs (100% at lower alts, 90% at higher alts). when I'm level, I kick it back to 85% or so.

In a dive, I will lower it steadily. For example, you start a dive at 85% pitch. When you hit 600km/h, kick it to 80%. 650=75% . . usually, I just drop it 5% for every 50 km/h I gain. When you get into the Uber power dives (we are talking 900+ IAS here) I have lowered it to the 30's and 40's. I hit 1300km/h actual IAS in a jug once. Thats greater than the speed of sound! You can tell when you break the sound bearier by using the F3 view . . when the Doppler shift stops working, you are supersonic.

Anywho. Using those two pearls of wisdom, no Dora can catch you at altitude any more. And remember, even though you know CEM, energy is still God.

Maple_Tiger
12-24-2003, 11:39 PM
. Um, FI-Aflak, you may want to look up CSP or Constant Speed Proppelor.

The Jug for example use's CSP.

To make a long story short the Pitch changes automaticaly.

Another example on CPS is when the Prop pitch is set to 100%(in the Jug that is 3000 Combat RPM) during take off and while you reach your desired altitude notice that the RPM stays almost exacly where it was when you took off.

You may wonder why it sayed at 3000RPM the whole time. to give you a hint its the CSP.


Ok, another example. In this one could use the BF109. Set Prop pitch to manuel. We know on manuel that 100% is basicaly first gear right. Any way, without changing the prop pitch for this bird what happens before your weels leave the ground?. Could it be your RPM went 4000 and that your plane's engine is now gone.

Yes you can change the 100% prop pitch setting on the Jug. but your not manualy changeing the prop pitch. Your just setting it to a lower RPM. Kind of hard to realy explane. CPS and manual are two differant things.

Once you set the RPM on the Jug or Pony or P-40 to less then 3000 then your not using Combat RPM. Combat RPM is an RPM wich gives you the most power. But you dont want to run the engine at 3000RPM all the time. It will over heat faster this way. Im not exactlt shure what the cruize RPM is but i thinks its like 2500 or 2700RPM. i think a 75% setting will give you 2500RPM. Once you set it to 75% it will stay at 2500RPM. Why? it's a CSP plane.

[This message was edited by Maple_Tiger on Wed December 24 2003 at 10:55 PM.]

VMF-214_HaVoK
12-24-2003, 11:40 PM
Fuel mixture is now auto for the P-47 so you cant change it. And you can find good quality info for CEM here: http://www.mudmovers.com/Sims/FB/fb_cem.htm
It should help you out a great deal as fas CEM goes.
=S=

LEXX_Luthor
12-24-2003, 11:58 PM
No, you may want to use open radiator all the time until you need alot of speed. Open for cruise to, you want to keep everything as cool as possible before you need it. There seems to be some observations that opening the radiator does not cool engine as much as reducing throttle but keeping radiator open keeps it cool before you need to punch it. If you are slow in a dogfight open the radiator until you need the speed.


__________________
RUSSIAN lexx website http://www.lexx.ufo.ru/stan.shtml
Stanly is a moron, kai is a walking dead beet, Xev just want sex.

Old_Canuck
12-25-2003, 11:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VMF-214_HaVoK:
Fuel mixture is now auto for the P-47 so you cant change it. And you can find good quality info for CEM here: http://www.mudmovers.com/Sims/FB/fb_cem.htm
It should help you out a great deal as fas CEM goes.
=S=<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Found this link very useful, HaVoK, and worth bookmarking. Thanks for posting it.

OC

"You don't stop playing because you grow old, you grow old because you stop playing."

Bull_dog_
12-25-2003, 03:23 PM
Thanks for all the hints...

I felt like prop pitch probably was the root of the issue and I have not found charts to show maximum climb, maximum cruise or max. dive settings. It seems some folks have found better combinations since they have outperformed me when I things seemed even and I felt the situation was even or in my favor.

I have a tendancy to climb partway to altitude on wep...usually to 3000 km's before backing off. Maybe I'll try not doing that in the event that certain injection systems have time limits...it has crossed my mind, especially with MW injection on Fw-190D that it is possible I used up the methanol...don't know if that is modeled or not? but possible.

Thanks again.

pinche_bolillo
12-25-2003, 06:07 PM
no bull dog is not imagining things. if you are flying a k4 and are not using cem by adjusting prop pitch and the like. the other guy can be slightly below you or about equal in altitude. you can be running this enemy k4 down in your k4 gaining slightly, then slowly you stop gaining on the enemy k4. then slowly the enemy starts to pull away from you. then he goes into a shallow climb and before you know it he is 1km above you. I have seen this quite a few times to know I am not imagining things. the reason the other guy with less e could eventually out run me, and climb till he had an advantage over me when we both had the same plane was because he was using cem and I wasnt. I wish I would have figured out cem settings for the 109k4 by myself, but I didnt. somebody gave them to me. the party that gave them to me would not like it if I posted the settings. cem works and it gives you a nice edge over a guy who isnt using cem.

p1ngu666
12-25-2003, 07:04 PM
its only a edge. but often its enuff
i dont do manual pitch on 109/190, tend to pop the engine straight off :|