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View Full Version : Please its time to disable 5.1 Sonic radar



AA_Absolute
02-02-2006, 05:20 AM
I read other topic over sound and i think lost really point.

Sorry if this topic already discused, but one thing i hate and is worst in this sim is the "ability" of pilots with 5.1 headphones hear one plane in your six all times... i hate this, lots of shot down in WW2 are of surprised pilots, and with 5.1 none have surprise advantage.
I know i purchase this gadget and have same exploit...

Is out of discussion one pilot with engine of 3000CV one meter behind dont hear other engine plane at 100 meters no??

Sorry for me very bad english.

OAC_Kosh
02-02-2006, 05:39 AM
When sound Hardware Acceleration is turned off the planes can be heard as if the pilot was outside of his plane, ie. a LOOOOONG way away.
With the H. Acceleration on, a proper cockpit resonace and external sound muffling is modelled.


Many people turn the acceleration off to gain a tactical advantage from hearing the enemy planes approach.

Turning the acceleration off puts additional load on the CPU and the sound is of worse quality.

AA_Absolute
02-02-2006, 05:45 AM
Thats question...

Disable posibility of few pilots hear enemy planes on six, i sacrifice external sound or quality of sounds for one more step to reality (i hate people use exploits for say "i the best).

S!

badatflyski
02-02-2006, 07:06 AM
Simply: Fly German, you never will hear an aircraft getting in your six http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

StG2_Schlachter
02-02-2006, 07:09 AM
Bollocks. It works in all planes.

badatflyski
02-02-2006, 07:28 AM
nop, in any russian plane i can hear the plane behind me and in none of the 190 (don't fly the 109)it happens.

Kwiatos
02-02-2006, 08:20 AM
Yes some "cheaters" disable hardware acceleration in sound setup and they are hearing sound of engine plane at their six.

I have many situation when i was attacking enemy from rear down area (death point) and when i was really close yet not shoting he suddenly break like he heard me.

These really need to be fixed to prevent such "cheating".

PriK
02-02-2006, 08:44 AM
We went over all of this a year ago with quite a lot of evidence but it was decided that the "fun game" aspect of sound was more important than the "realism" aspect. I think it also has to do with the limitations of the sound engine as well.

Philipscdrw
02-02-2006, 09:50 AM
Well then, make 'hardware acceleration' a realism option instead of a sound option. Simple solution perhaps.

vanjast
02-02-2006, 03:26 PM
Anyone been on the tarmac at a busy airport ??
you can hear aircraft 'miles' away in an enclosed CPit.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Blackjack174
02-02-2006, 04:41 PM
Originally posted by badatflyski:
nop, in any russian plane i can hear the plane behind me and in none of the 190 (don't fly the 109)it happens.
Actually I found that true also, but I only hear them on 9/3 oc , 6 oc only when 10 meters or less , but as mentioned above its easier in some russian planes, just fly some yaks and laggs with 5.1 turned on , the engine is SOOO FRIGGIN soft I always feel like flying a motorised glider http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
In contrast to that I nearly get deaf when sitting in p38 or bf110 or any other plane with 2+ engines.
But how all sounds are represented is also heavily dependend on used driver and hardware, my nforce sounds different with 3 driver revisions (i found that a VERY old driver has the best reverb and you really think your'in a pit, other drivers toned down the effect and sounded much worse)
So as long EAX gets "interpreted" different with any driver/soundcard I doubt this issue will be resolved for all.

AA_Absolute
02-03-2006, 02:05 AM
I know good sound for offliners is a needed for "partial" inmersion ... but on-line war is another history, little advantages make live or death at same skilled pilots, and if you like maximun inmersion only fly missions with enemy and friend humans is the way.

I know sound in 5.1 headphones is "like" out copkit sound, you hear gun and engines 10-20KM away, usually on-line war (good on-line wars http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif) dont have enable external views, option for disabled this type of sound (sonic radar) is needed in a serious war.
In reality i fly few times in ULM DA-20"katana" (100-200CV) and dont hear helicopter over 50 meters

I think solve this bug is importantly, i like only know have enemy in six make little turn, or ask my comrades as reality.

I understand is a technical problem, but perhaps path 4.05 or 5.0 or BOB solve this.

Philipscdrw
02-03-2006, 04:44 AM
I think I'd be worried if I flew with you, Absolute, if you fly within 50 metres of helicopters!

AFJ_Locust
02-03-2006, 06:09 AM
Originally posted by badatflyski:
nop, in any russian plane i can hear the plane behind me and in none of the 190 (don't fly the 109)it happens.

Wrong

AFJ_Locust
02-03-2006, 06:12 AM
Originally posted by Kwiatos:
Yes some "cheaters" disable hardware acceleration in sound setup and they are hearing sound of engine plane at their six.

I have many situation when i was attacking enemy from rear down area (death point) and when i was really close yet not shoting he suddenly break like he heard me.

These really need to be fixed to prevent such "cheating".

LOL its not cheating

90% of the people online can here enemy approching from far out, If they impliment it so that NONE can do this thats fine with me....

As long as others are able to do it (90%) well..

arrow80
02-03-2006, 08:03 AM
I get 10-15 FPS, loss by enabling sound hardware acceleration (I own - SB Live!)...with HW acceleration the sound is good and I don't hear other planes outside cockpit much, but I have no other choice than to disable that HW accell. The sound is really badly implemented and eats lot of resources, I haven't had this problem in any other game...

Blackjack174
02-03-2006, 08:34 AM
Originally posted by Arrow80:
I get 10-15 FPS, loss by enabling sound hardware acceleration (I own - SB Live!)...with HW acceleration the sound is good and I don't hear other planes outside cockpit much, but I have no other choice than to disable that HW accell. The sound is really badly implemented and eats lot of resources, I haven't had this problem in any other game...
Had the same problems with my LIVE! AND my nforce, for il2 engine i UNINSTALLED EAX-Unified (some games need that installed, so beware!).
The reason why its improved the sound at my machine: my live/nforce doesnt support EAX3 at all , with EAX-Unified installed the console of il2 shows me that EAX3 is in use , so that unified piece of s**t is emulating eax3 per software, after uninstalled i get faster framerate with HW sound on even without "SoundFlags.forceEAX1=1", i suspect users of newer audigy cards dont have to worry because their cards can do <eax3 in HARDWARE, but you never now (learned to hate creative drivers with my live, now its running with alt. drivers for music making only, not for games anymore)

So test SoundFlags.forceEAX1=1 in your config ini , if that improves frames is suspect EAX-Unified got installed , either uninstall it (if no game needs it) or use SoundFlags.forceEAX1=1 , at least it sounds a bit better than software and was faster (at my hardware).

WB_Outlaw
02-03-2006, 10:07 AM
BUMP and a vote to disable all external sounds while in the cockpit and the engine running if the code can't be easily modified to handle it more accurately. I feel guilty when I hear a bad guy on my six and break, thus denying him a kill he deserved. If I don't break they ram me and I sometimes get the kill so I figure I'm doing him a favor by "cheating".

--Outlaw.

Stafroty
02-03-2006, 12:02 PM
Vote for disabling sounds outside own plane, more realism. yea, would add immersion and realism. if one can hear enemy planes its same as flying without cockpit with icons on, as you see the arrows which tells where the enemy is.

quiet_man
02-03-2006, 12:50 PM
Originally posted by AA_Absolute:
I read other topic over sound and i think lost really point.

Sorry if this topic already discused, but one thing i hate and is worst in this sim is the "ability" of pilots with 5.1 headphones hear one plane in your six all times... i hate this, lots of shot down in WW2 are of surprised pilots, and with 5.1 none have surprise advantage.
I know i purchase this gadget and have same exploit...

Is out of discussion one pilot with engine of 3000CV one meter behind dont hear other engine plane at 100 meters no??

Sorry for me very bad english.

I just got a new mainboard with sourround, I took headphones and tryed all settings but I could not hear engines behind me.

You can hear "fly by" effects when other planes come by very fast and when I plug to rear speakers I can hear very clear when someone is firing behind me (at Software mode) but no engines.

what setup do you use to get this effect?

To me it looks like Oleg has already disabled engine sound from form other planes when in cockpit.

quiet_man

Stafroty
02-03-2006, 01:50 PM
quiet man, maybe you just arent listening well enought, or you are listening for "wrong thing" :P

"tullakseen viisaaksi on tajuttava lopettaa siihen pyrkiminen"

Hunter82
02-03-2006, 05:26 PM
personally I think the in cockpit sounds should be a huge amount of your own engine with little to no external sounds...but that's just personal opinion.

quiet_man
02-04-2006, 03:06 PM
Originally posted by Stafroty:
quiet man, maybe you just arent listening well enought, or you are listening for "wrong thing" :P

"tullakseen viisaaksi on tajuttava lopettaa siihen pyrkiminen"

who knows?
when I switch to external I can hear engines behind very clear but internal I can only hear when they start firing.

maybe the issue is with the AI I tested with, I couldn't get them to come closer then ~200m

quiet_man

Willey
02-04-2006, 03:27 PM
I have no sonar, not even with extrensions off. BUT if I use my onboard nforce2 MCP-T Soundstorm instead of my Audigy with the same settings, I get sonar sound... that's really strange http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Willey
02-04-2006, 03:35 PM
I'd rather have the whole sound engine fixed. I'm really fed up with the engine sound almost disapperaing when firing let's say the 8 50 cals in a Jug. The more the merrier. Hurrib IIb is the worst with 12 guns.

A good sound engine would render what is called sonar sound in externals and maybe WWCV, but nothing from outside while in the cockpit. Not even the guns. Some quiet airframe vibration sounds maybe, but JUST the engine(s). Of course it depends on the plane. IIRC the 262 was really nice to fly because of the surprisingly low engine sound noise compared to piston engine planes according to pilots' accounts.
Of course, with engines off, you should be able to hear something, but dampened (occlusion), and even a lot more with opened canopy and engine off - especially the wind sound.
It's as unrealistic to sit on the tarmac, engine off, canopy open, not able to hear a plane flying at 500m distance as beeing able to hear someone closing up at 2k already while flying with some certain sound chips.

BTW it would be nice to have more distinct sounds... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

arrow80
02-05-2006, 04:30 AM
Blackjack174:
Thanks for the tip, but it didn't work for me. If I enable EAX 1 only, I get the same bad frame rate decrease as with EAX 2. I don't see any EAX unified installed on my computerhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif Which SB live! drivers would you recommend? T

idonno
02-05-2006, 05:06 AM
Isn't it the case that if the host turns extraocclusion on (or is it off?) that people can no longer hear anyone behind them?

AA_Absolute
02-05-2006, 11:10 AM
How few pilots say (thanx, i like know i'am alone in this crusade) the solution is disable external sound.

GREAT, now i wait only this soltion is enable.

PD. I dont know how config system to hear six (i dont like exploids) but as i know lots of people use it, best proof only goto online wars

Manos1
02-06-2006, 06:41 AM
Originally posted by AA_Absolute:
I know sound in 5.1 headphones is "like" out copkit sound, you hear gun and engines 10-20KM away, usually on-line war (good on-line wars http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif) dont have enable external views, option for disabled this type of sound (sonic radar) is needed in a serious war.


This subject is new to me point although I have also experienced the feeling, hearing often the motor of another plane throttling dead six behind me but, the other plane is always very close (less than 50meters).
And I always wondered why other planes jerked suddently when I was approaching at their six low (in order to avoid being seeing in their rear view mirrors).

But can somebody explain to me where the difference between 5.1 Speakers and 5.1 Headphones is ?
Why should there be a difference at first place anyway ?????

~S~

Stafroty
02-09-2006, 01:22 AM
how much would it improve game play if all the sound sources outside own plane are removed totally?

and if sounds are so important for "realism" and gameplay, can it be possible to make sound to advance in air at speed of sound?
its even faster than speed of light now s there is no delay for sound. this can game dev team test themselfs, if they can lift plane at million kilometres high in game engine, remove totally the range of sound and then listen on the ground when you press the trigger, you hear the noice rightaway that i bet http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

carguy_
02-09-2006, 03:25 AM
One of the 3.;; patches proved what impact this factor has on combat.People would get jumped and destroyed.Mostly they panicked.That effect can`t be reachable if one hears the enenmy coming starting from 300m distance.

You ask how LW pilots evade Mustangs/Lightnings/Thunderbolts.They listen to what is happening around just like the U-boat crews when being depth-charged.


Oh and Seafire drew a special pic about the topic too. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

OldMan____
02-09-2006, 05:25 AM
Just 2 cents here. In real life you can hear one engine sound behind other. Sound does not work that simple. It depends on the harmonics involved on its sound. Engine whose sound have different harmonics can be heard no matter how loud the other is. For example, you could probably hear an Formula 1 engine (or a turbofan engine) just outside you (relatively ) low reving but very noisy DB605 engine....

But I really don know, and doubt anyone ever made this type of annalysis, if there is enough discreapncy among WW2 engines to made one be audible from behind others noise.

Stafroty
02-11-2006, 01:37 PM
oldman, sure there could be noise, but it should come thru glass/wood/aluminnium and headphones. The engine ROAR should be loud, much louder than anything else, and behind/thru that, the other engine in distance is an Scream of next friend in loud heavy metal consert, you see the Mouth move, but you only feel the pressure of his voice, you cant hear him but only Heavy metal http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif no matter if he is half meter away from you. Just get in loud enought place, sound sure will disappear there...

OldMan____
02-11-2006, 01:47 PM
Originally posted by Stafroty:
oldman, sure there could be noise, but it should come thru glass/wood/aluminnium and headphones. The engine ROAR should be loud, much louder than anything else, and behind/thru that, the other engine in distance is an Scream of next friend in loud heavy metal consert, you see the Mouth move, but you only feel the pressure of his voice, you cant hear him but only Heavy metal http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif no matter if he is half meter away from you. Just get in loud enought place, sound sure will disappear there...

that is because Heavy metal is mostly same harmonics level as human voice and it varies alot. But if you take a constant noise, liek engine, it IS different.


Once I was in a power plant that was running a several huge gas turbines from their machinery. It was as loud as hell, I tought I was going to get deaf if I stood there for long. I really tough I could not hear the sound of my voice. But when an inspector used a simple whistle to call out attention, we HEARD it! Why? because the whistle was a very high frequency only harmonics, While all harmonics from the gas turbines were of much lower frequency.

So you WILL know there are another noise around (you may not be able to distinguish it, but you will know if it has different harmonics)

Tater-SW-
02-11-2006, 01:56 PM
It seems worse, last night I had a few bounces blown by cons hearing me and jinking. I did the same thing myself a few times. Better to completely disable all external noises, just yer engine and guns.

tater

Stafroty
02-11-2006, 02:42 PM
i think engines sound after all quite well the same, frequenscies etc http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif wind noice etc.

WE can discuss this on and on, is there any veterans left who we could ask? i bet not many who were attacked from behind without them knowin it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

OldMan____
02-11-2006, 03:16 PM
Originally posted by Stafroty:
i think engines sound after all quite well the same, frequenscies etc http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif wind noice etc.

WE can discuss this on and on, is there any veterans left who we could ask? i bet not many who were attacked from behind without them knowin it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

and most of them can´t hear anything else anymore anyway.

CD_kp84yb
02-11-2006, 03:51 PM
well atleast i can hear russian AAA (small) firing when im on the other side of the map, so that bugs is back again, green laserbeams thats is Russian AAA if im correct.

regards

Stafroty
02-11-2006, 06:19 PM
aaa sound is an bug, you can sometimes hear when someone shoots at long distance.

AA_Absolute
02-13-2006, 04:34 AM
Is crystal clear, in reality lots of pilots shot down by enemy in six down (in all sides), is one principal rule of fight "surprise".
If those pilots hear engine of enemy posibly make evasive movements ... external sounds break surprise, must remove it

Easy solution: disable external sounds for full real fly.

S!

Manos1
02-13-2006, 09:40 AM
Look guys, I do not want to sound stupid but, I have tried to duplicate the result that everybody here is talking about.

I do not understand how this works because, it is true, I can hear the engine noise of other planes BUT ONLY IF I HAVE TURNED MY BF109 ENGINE OFF !

With the Bf109 engine running, it is impossible to hear anything else APART FROM THE CANNONS OF THE ENEMY AIRPLANE DEAD BEHIND YOU (and then sound is of limited comfort..)

I do admit however that I have seen many Spitfires starting evasive action while I was approaching from behind and low when I could swear that it was impossible to have been seen in the rear view mirror.

So, what is going on?
Do I understand that Russian and English (Spits) planes have this capability and Bf109 not!?
Do some people have it and some not?
And what causes the problem?

Sound (good sound) is important in a game, therefore I believe such ideas as "turning sound off completely" are not ideas which contribute favourably to the immersion of the game.


~S~

PS. I use the onboard sound card for TeamSpeak and one Creative Audigy2 for IL2FB but, I doubt that the onboard soundcard would make the difference.

carguy_
02-13-2006, 09:48 AM
I used onboard sound card until I switched to nForce2.Onboard sound I had to lower acceleration because it cost me FPS and lower sound quality in IL2setup.

With nForce2 I have everything all the way up with no FPS loss.

Onboard sound let me hear everything around me.Now I hear hardly anything else than my engine though other planes make sound in my cockpit when they`re in 300m closure.That counts especially for P51 sound like high revs.

Stafroty
02-14-2006, 06:07 AM
why not making alarm beeber when enemy plane is under 1 mile distance of your plane so everyone. in HUD alarmd light that enemys around and counter how many.

of ELITE style of radar, so sound setup would not limit the "skill factor" of others.

or is it just the right of the Allied side to get that advantage?

AA_Absolute
03-10-2006, 10:15 AM
Bump

OldMan____
03-10-2006, 10:44 AM
Originally posted by Stafroty:
how much would it improve game play if all the sound sources outside own plane are removed totally?

and if sounds are so important for "realism" and gameplay, can it be possible to make sound to advance in air at speed of sound?
its even faster than speed of light now s there is no delay for sound. this can game dev team test themselfs, if they can lift plane at million kilometres high in game engine, remove totally the range of sound and then listen on the ground when you press the trigger, you hear the noice rightaway that i bet http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Dont make such assumptions, all sound systems like OpenAL and DirectSound automatizally make sound travel at correct sound speed, so you only hear it when the sound arrives at you.

idonno
03-11-2006, 05:30 AM
Originally posted by idonno:
Isn't it the case that if the host turns extraocclusion on (or is it off?) that people can no longer hear anyone behind them?

Did anybody read my question, and does anybody know the answer?

id

Manos1
03-11-2006, 07:02 AM
Originally posted by idonno:
Isn't it the case that if the host turns extraocclusion on (or is it off?) that people can no longer hear anyone behind them?

Sorry I missed that.

What is extraocclusion and where do I turn it on/off ?

~S~

idonno
03-11-2006, 08:06 AM
In the Console.

id