PDA

View Full Version : Hacked off!!



johnbn
11-04-2007, 12:59 PM
Was flying on Warbirds Spits vs 109's on early Sunday evening. The map was a 1939 to 42 plane set when I noticed someone called "tente-tieso" flying the FW190 D9.

I mentioned this to my team (red) and a couple of the guys asked him how come he was flying this aircraft, at which point he left.

5 mins later I had to put my wee girl to bed. When I came back to Hyperlobby (10 mins later) I searched this guy out and it said he was still playing in Spits vs 109's. I then re-joined spits v 109's but his name did not come up on the ratings pages (3 pages as by this time the server was busy). So I left and checked again and sure enough Hyperlobby was still saying he was in game in Spits v 109s, so I went back in but still no sign of him on ratings pages, although all planes appeared to be within the correct planeset.

I know other people seen him on the ratings page using the Dora, but how HL said he was still in the server but he was not being identified on the ratings page was strange.

Curious!

Would "tente-tieso" care to respond if he reads this cause I am (and I'm sure some others) curious.

VMF-214_HaVoK
11-04-2007, 01:27 PM
This hack has been around for many years. I can remember people talking about it in online wars, before PF even shipped.

WoP servers have fantastic admins and will address these issues as they pop up with swiftness and I have great confidence in that. The more people that know how to cheat at the game it becomes even more important to fly in those servers you respect and fly with individuals you have know for awhile.

I firmly believe that no real veteran of this sim would ever cheat. In my opinion only the novice will even look for one to use and even if they do it will do them no real justice as they will still perform badly.

When flying in servers have your screen shot key ready and your quick track key set up. Make trips to the servers forums and keep admins informed. Doing this will great reduce any form of cheating that arise. Once the ******* is banned, he is banned for good.

I also feel that constant cheating threads do no real service to the community and you should have posted this in the WoP forums and left it at that. Hacking/cheating is nothing new but the reality of it is that a very low % of the community would even attempt to cheat and it will remain that way as long as the community does not go into some kind of paranoid frantic panic.

S!

Skunk_438RCAF
11-04-2007, 02:00 PM
Flukes like this can happen on any server. I was on Zekes once and they had a Kyushu map running. All the bases were at the bottom of the map, but there was one blue base way up north, and if you clicked on it you had access to the Me262A-1a.

Urufu_Shinjiro
11-04-2007, 02:06 PM
While it may be odd he had a dora, the other issue is a glitch with hyperlobby. I've seen it happen to a squad m8 who's pc crashed in just the right fashion so that hyperlobby showed him still in the game but the game knew he was no longer connected. As soon as he rebooted and connected to hyperlobby again it corrected itself. Remember people, just cause something wierd happens does not mean there's cheating going on.

johnbn
11-04-2007, 02:08 PM
Havok, I take your points on board but do not necessarily agree 100%

I was not aware of this hack before, maybe I should pay attention more!

I will post at warbirds as soon as my account is activated, I dont have one there thats why I posted here, also to let other people know what is going on, on the rare occasions that it looks as though someone is cheating.

I also posted here to give the guy a chance to respond, hey maybe its a bug!

Can you be in a server but hidden from the ratings page? thats a new one to me but, I have to admit I don't frequent the boards too often.

If it transpires he was cheating I would like to see his IP banned from HL but I don't know if that would be possible, but you are right any cheating ******* should be banned from all servers and in my opinion HL.

Skunk_438RCAF
11-04-2007, 02:28 PM
No sense in going all haywire about it. Did you actually see him flying the Dora? Or was this just on the ratings page?

Read my above post. Perhaps it was a similar situation?

Xiolablu3
11-04-2007, 03:00 PM
His PC may have crashed while connected to the server while the Dora was in the planeset.

As such, he hadnt disconnected, so the server thought he was still there, flying the same plane as he was before.

Unless you saw him flying around shooting people in the Dora well into the map (time-wise), then I seriously wouldnt worry about it.

I have often had server glitches where I could choose planes from the previous map in the new map when it first starts.

I have never seen anyone cheatin gin my 2+years of flying IL2 online, only lag glitches and stuff. If you ever do come across someone cheating, just leave the server and pick another one, or come back later when the cheater has gone. Its no fun playing on your own, especially not if you are a cheater and have a kiddies ego.

slipBall
11-04-2007, 03:22 PM
No harm done, its not like you waisted space here http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif....it's good to keep a eye open.....I am expecting Bill Gates to show up any day now....in a uber mod http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif....he's been wanting a piece of 1C for year's, and now he can have it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

striker-85
11-04-2007, 03:57 PM
Originally posted by Skunk_438RCAF:
Flukes like this can happen on any server. I was on Zekes once and they had a Kyushu map running. All the bases were at the bottom of the map, but there was one blue base way up north, and if you clicked on it you had access to the Me262A-1a.

I use to play that map http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

On this map the Me262 was intentionaly put there, it was supposed to represent a Kikka, kind of a fanatasy what if scenario.

The airfield was placed way north so you had a reeeaallly long flight time to the fight, the intent was to offset their advantage by making it not so easy to just get up and fight.

You had to decide if it was worth the really long flight to have a jet.

PF_Coastie
11-04-2007, 06:13 PM
Was there more than 30 people in the server when you say he did not show on the pilots list?

If so, you would need to hit the shift key while holding down the S key to see pilots 31-60 and so on.

DKoor
11-04-2007, 09:02 PM
Got track?

M4Sherman4
11-04-2007, 09:39 PM
the more we post about mods and cheats the more people know about it. because the saying is true no publicity is bad publicity. so get evidence and help get the person banned BUT do not advertise that mods and cheats exist because it will only get the word out.I can not say this enough because only a honorable pilot wont use cheats and hacks.

Messaschnitzel
11-05-2007, 01:36 PM
It has been years since I played any online games. Do these types of glitches that are being discussed above still happen with online games on a regular basis? The reason that I am asking is that I used to play Battlezone online in 1997-98 and had an episode that began when I logged on to one of the servers. When logging on, my computer froze after the usual update download. After rebooting, I found that I couldn't get back onto the server.

The next night, I logged on and jumped into a deathmatch shootout map. After a couple of minutes, my screen went white. Immediately, I received text that asked me in no uncertain terms what did I think I was doing. Confused, I typed that I wasn't doing anything.

Apparently, I was moving around the map at unusually high speed and destroying everything that I came across. I was taking direct hits and not taking any damage as well. The person running the game accused me of cheating and to leave the map. I tried another map and got the same results as before. The next day, I got in touch with both the game developers and the server admin and was told that they never heard of this incident happening. If it wasn't for the players telling me of this, I would have been completely unaware of this happening at all. Really bizarre. Anybody else ever hear of or experience this type of problem?

hi_stik
11-05-2007, 03:19 PM
yeah, Striker85 is right, that 262 base was intentional. Not only that, did you actually try taking off from it, Skunk?

It was put in that odd map crater that exists near the north shore of Kyushu. Inside the crater, you had barely enough room to get the bird off the mat, and you could not climb out straight, you had to IMMEDIATELY start orbiting, otherwise you'd smack the side. And forget taking off w/ 75% fuel, or a bombload. It was quite the challenge to get off the ground and out of the crater alive. I miss that air challenge...

LW_lcarp
11-05-2007, 03:22 PM
Back in the original IL2 you with the help of a program and some voodoo magic to the user text could fly anyplane in a server. Now this went out with someone realizing you could fly AI planes with adding them to the mission text for online.

So someone remembered what it was and was flying a 190 or what ever online with it.

Its not a hack it was used by 1c to test the non flyable planes. And obviously someone is using it to fly planes not on the server.

Now everyone calm down and get back to having fun

SlickStick
11-05-2007, 03:32 PM
Just FYI, flying a plane that is not in the plane list on a given map is done by editing a .ini file with plane of choice and then joining a server. You must pick base and spawn immediately and you cannot choose another plane or the file gets overwritten. This trick is older than Methusala.

As for the % of cheaters in this game, I laugh when I see people type "low % of cheaters" or "I've never seen a cheat". http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Cheaters love ignorance. It helps make it easier for them to continue cheating. Remember, the best cheaters are the one's who know how to tweak just enough to not be obvious, yet gain their distinct advantage.

Case in point, using Speed Hack to slow down, instead of an obvious speed up. Very effective in a close dogfight.

Or using the files.sfs hacker and just changing weight of an aircraft slightly, or engine power slightly, or gun power slightly. Anybody who doesn't think there is and has been a relatively large percentage of cheating in this game, is living in the land of "De Nile". http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

Log reading during missions, speed hack, intentional connection BS and the files.sfs hacker, which BTW has been around for a few years now, just to name a few. Only now is the hacker fully public.

Then again, whatever. If someone needs to cheat to win to satiate their fragile ego, then all we can do as a community is make sure our server Hosts are educated and know how to use the anti-cheat tools that we have already and at least make it more difficult for them to get away with it. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

VMF-214_HaVoK
11-05-2007, 03:38 PM
As for the % of cheaters in this game, I laugh when I see people type "low % of cheaters" or "I've never seen a cheat".

Proof? Did not think so. Lose like a man and stop blaming it on hacks. Of course you would not know because you disco as soon as you loose advantage. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif You have been crying the same about this for years and long before there was ever a sound mod.

S!

Skunk_438RCAF
11-05-2007, 04:10 PM
Originally posted by hi_stik:
yeah, Striker85 is right, that 262 base was intentional. Not only that, did you actually try taking off from it, Skunk?

It was put in that odd map crater that exists near the north shore of Kyushu. Inside the crater, you had barely enough room to get the bird off the mat, and you could not climb out straight, you had to IMMEDIATELY start orbiting, otherwise you'd smack the side. And forget taking off w/ 75% fuel, or a bombload. It was quite the challenge to get off the ground and out of the crater alive. I miss that air challenge...

Yes me and a squad mate tried to take off from there multiple times. By the time we got the hang of it, the server was switching missions.

SlickStick
11-05-2007, 06:05 PM
Originally posted by VMF-214_HaVoK:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">As for the % of cheaters in this game, I laugh when I see people type "low % of cheaters" or "I've never seen a cheat".

Proof? Did not think so. Lose like a man and stop blaming it on hacks. Of course you would not know because you disco as soon as you loose advantage. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif You have been crying the same about this for years and long before there was ever a sound mod.

S! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

All the proof anyone needs is in the anti-cheat settings Oleg gave us built into the game. They came after the cheating started. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Losing has nothing to do with whether I know someone is cheating or not. As losses happen so few and far between, 95% of the time, I'm already beating them anyway and love to point out their convenient "plane lunges forward" and other assorted BS, that only seem to start once they've been waxed a few times in a row and they realize they have no other choice. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

A tight server keeps out most cheats anyway. The truly sad part is the ignorant and sometimes blatant misuse of the settings. Some hosts have no idea what they are allowing to happen on their servers. Some know exactly what they are allowing on their servers. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif Too funny.

I pray BoB makes them non-host settable and hard codes all anti-cheat tools right into the game. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Ccrashh
11-06-2007, 04:20 PM
I've seen this happen and it has happened to me before.
A few months ago we did have a person on the Iwo Jima map flying an ME-262.
That plane isn't suppose to be there. I immediately removed the offending player.

I didn't know for certain if he was cheating but I couldn't take the risk.

The player in question contacted me and we talked it over. I apologized for having to remove him and explained why I did it. He was very gracious and understanding.

Call me a sucker but I believed him.

I'm glad I did..

Because something like that happened to me later.

What happened to me goes something like this. I was on Spits, I left the map to go over to Zekes just as a new map was loading. When I chose a RED base I had the option of selecting a B-25 on a 1937 China map. I actually saw the plane appear on the list after the map loaded.

I asked other players if they saw the same thing on their plane list. ...NOPE they didn't..
Everyone asked the same question. "Could you fly it?". I don't know. I didn't try. I wasn't about to risk appearing on a map in a plane that wasn't suppose to be there. I just know that I've personally seen this phenomenon for myself. I exited the game, restarted and everything was fine.

I don't know if there is a hack out there that does this. I don't know how many or what type of hacks there are out there and I don't care. As a player, hacks don't interest me. If you need to cheat to win then you already lost.

We do have many admins that keep abreast of this kind of ****. They do a remarkable job.

Part of the sad truth of online gaming is that there will always be a few folks who are never satisfied with being on an equal footing with everyone else. I personally would not get much satifaction beating up on everyone else if I had to cheat to do it.

For a VERY few, honor means nothing. We just have to live with it.

I don't know if it's possible to make a totally "hack-proof" server. I think with a lot of work and constant tweaking and monitoring you could make a server with adaquate security, but at what cost?

Should you risk unintentionally kicking out and locking out good honest players who would never cheat all in the name of "security"?

Given that not everyone uses the same operating system and not all servers use the same software the "de-bugging" process could be a nightmare.

I suppose you could post a long thread in your forums on all of the changes your players would have to do to try to get back in, but who would want to? Folks want to play the game. They don't want to have to screw with their systems and alter config files. What players want to do is click the button and fly. If they can't "click and fly" on one server they will go to another.

Given the choice of:
A.) Having a TOTALLY secure server that can lock out and alienate the average honest person

or

B.) keeping the server accessible to all knowing it risks letting 'cheaters" in...

I choose B.

I'm happy to say It's worth the headache and the risk. Its been my experience that 99.999% of the folks I see on Warbirds and online in general do not cheat, nor do they condone cheating. If something looks funny the folks on Spits and Zekes are real good at pointing it out.

The admins on Warbirds take this "cheating" thing very seriously. I personally don't think it's as wide spread as we think. The problem is once the words "hack" and cheat" appear in forums, paranoia sets in and everyone starts looking for monsters in every closet.


Ccrashh
1st Horseman

Urufu_Shinjiro
11-06-2007, 04:32 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

SlickStick
11-06-2007, 07:40 PM
Originally posted by Ccrashh:
I've seen this happen and it has happened to me before.
A few months ago we did have a person on the Iwo Jima map flying an ME-262.
That plane isn't suppose to be there. I immediately removed the offending player.

I didn't know for certain if he was cheating but I couldn't take the risk.

The player in question contacted me and we talked it over. I apologized for having to remove him and explained why I did it. He was very gracious and understanding.

Call me a sucker but I believed him.

I'm glad I did..

Because something like that happened to me later.

What happened to me goes something like this. I was on Spits, I left the map to go over to Zekes just as a new map was loading. When I chose a RED base I had the option of selecting a B-25 on a 1937 China map. I actually saw the plane appear on the list after the map loaded.

I asked other players if they saw the same thing on their plane list. ...NOPE they didn't..
Everyone asked the same question. "Could you fly it?". I don't know. I didn't try. I wasn't about to risk appearing on a map in a plane that wasn't suppose to be there. I just know that I've personally seen this phenomenon for myself. I exited the game, restarted and everything was fine.

I don't know if there is a hack out there that does this. I don't know how many or what type of hacks there are out there and I don't care. As a player, hacks don't interest me. If you need to cheat to win then you already lost.

We do have many admins that keep abreast of this kind of ****. They do a remarkable job.

Part of the sad truth of online gaming is that there will always be a few folks who are never satisfied with being on an equal footing with everyone else. I personally would not get much satifaction beating up on everyone else if I had to cheat to do it.

For a VERY few, honor means nothing. We just have to live with it.

I don't know if it's possible to make a totally "hack-proof" server. I think with a lot of work and constant tweaking and monitoring you could make a server with adaquate security, but at what cost?

Should you risk unintentionally kicking out and locking out good honest players who would never cheat all in the name of "security"?

Given that not everyone uses the same operating system and not all servers use the same software the "de-bugging" process could be a nightmare.

I suppose you could post a long thread in your forums on all of the changes your players would have to do to try to get back in, but who would want to? Folks want to play the game. They don't want to have to screw with their systems and alter config files. What players want to do is click the button and fly. If they can't "click and fly" on one server they will go to another.

Given the choice of:
A.) Having a TOTALLY secure server that can lock out and alienate the average honest person

or

B.) keeping the server accessible to all knowing it risks letting 'cheaters" in...

I choose B.

I'm happy to say It's worth the headache and the risk. Its been my experience that 99.999% of the folks I see on Warbirds and online in general do not cheat, nor do they condone cheating. If something looks funny the folks on Spits and Zekes are real good at pointing it out.

The admins on Warbirds take this "cheating" thing very seriously. I personally don't think it's as wide spread as we think. The problem is once the words "hack" and cheat" appear in forums, paranoia sets in and everyone starts looking for monsters in every closet.


Ccrashh
1st Horseman

Some good thoughts on the subject, but it isn't as "all or nothing" as you make it out to be. A host can control what happens on his server just by learning and correctly using the built-in anti-cheat tools.

Speed check, MAX Lag and checkruntime are important tools that, when used correctly, do exactly what you are looking to do. Let honest folks fly and autokick the cheaters.

BBloke used to run a server and it was always 3 secs, 3% speed check with tight MAX LAG near and far, and honest people had no problen flying that server all day. The point you're kind of missing is the subtlety of speed hack and how it is used.

Granted, with checkruntime=2 to prevent the files.sfs hacking, some honest folks might get caught in the net because of a different OS and hopefully BoB will refine this check a bit more and make it stable for all, but if I was an admin, I would just consider them casualties of the need to provide a safe, fun server for the majority of the honest folks that want to fly there.

There's an old saying that if you want to keep something secure, you don't leave it open and hope the cheaters don't come in. You lock it up and let the honest folks in.

Just my opinion, of course, and by far I'm not telling any admin how to run their server, but using the settings properly, there is a balance to be found between security and ease of use. More admins just need to experiment a little and do some reading to find out exactly how speed hack works, how much can affect a plane's performance, and then set their server just below that.

Personally, I would never run a server without checkruntime=2 nowadays. It may not catch everything, as everything hasn't been tried yet, but I've been told it catches newer versions of the sound mod as well as certain plane changes.

By far, an All Switches Left™ server requires the tightest security as it is the easiest type of server to cheat on. Externals are the best way to spot speed hack and the lack of them leaves everything wide open for speed hack. Not to mention what can be accomplished now with the files.sfs hacking program.

Imagine you, all nice and honest flying in this type of server, and some bozo has no pit or enhanced guns or other changes that circumvent your server's difficulty settings. Maybe you don't care that he will continuously cheat you and all of the other honest folks, maybe you do.

For me, I wouldn't give them the satisfaction of ruining my server and destroying all of the fun the folks there are having, especially when it takes time, dedication and money to keep a good dedicated server running well.

Just my thoughts on the subject. Best of luck. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Ccrashh
11-06-2007, 08:01 PM
I see your point Slick,

For me the biggest part of this is loyalty. Most of the clientel of Warbirds flys exclusively on Warbirds.

If this were from a strickly business point of view I could definitely agree with you. We tried all of the settings you mentioned and they were quite successful at providing security.

Unfortunately more than a few of the regulars got caught in the web and couldn't get on.

I couldn't have that on my conscience.

SlickStick
11-07-2007, 09:12 AM
I understand completely and sympathize with your need to maintain the loyalty of the regulars. That's why balance is so important in the settings. A nominal MAX LAG of 1 sec NEAR and 1.5 or 2.0 sec FAR, with a 5% speed check and maybe only checkruntime=1 would be a good mid-point, for example.

Some is always better than none when it comes to anti-cheat settings and the above settings would allow any honest player to play on your server with no issues and any honest players that possibly got kicked once in awhile would most likely only be having a PC or internet connection problem. It would help control the overall smoothness of the server as well and those honest folks that have issues could get help with them.

One thing I've learned in 7 years of online flight simming, honor is not given, it's earned. Many a pilot over the years who was believed to be honorable while "in the light" of public eye, was exposed as a pure cheat. Case in point, the reading of mission log files while flying full real competitions.

For me, I'd rather error on the side of security and deal with the small amount of honest people that get caught in the net, than letting many cheaters do as they please on my server.

Again, just my thoughts on this subject and I'm glad that you as a Host even take an interest in protecting your server. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Skunk_438RCAF
11-07-2007, 10:40 AM
Hey Slick, can you define for us inferior pilots what a cheater is?

SlickStick
11-07-2007, 12:03 PM
Originally posted by Skunk_438RCAF:
Hey Slick, can you define for us inferior pilots what a cheater is?

Inferior has nothing do with it, but in my opinion, a cheater is someone who uses a program or action outside of what the game natively offers to increase the online performance of the game or to purposefully manipulate their internet connection in such a way as to induce packet loss.

This is not meant as using better sticks or monitors or hardware or even game feature knowledge/use. I'm speaking soley about changing the way the game runs or performs online in a way that is above and beyond what is available to anyone else and beyond what was intended/defined by the developer.

This would include Speed Hack programs used to increase game speed and in effect have time compression ability online, files.sfs hacking (changes to plane's FM/DM, performance, guns, etc.), intentional rapid-fire print screening using FRAPS to cause freezes (in-game Print Screen is once every ten seconds), and anything else that could be used as a way to circumvent server settings or functions that are available to all for use in-game.

That's about it in a nutshell. I may add/refine my post a bit more as I look/think about it more.