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J_Weaver
08-04-2005, 06:58 PM
Ok, guys, this has been bugging for a while. The ai in 4.01 seem to be fast, very fast. I don't think that the ai are exceeding their aircraft's top speed, but it seems like they either accelerate faster than the player or they don't bleed energy as fast as the player.

This is by no means a whine. No, I don't have any hard data. This is simply an observation I've made. Has anyone else noticed this?

Opinions????

fordfan25
08-04-2005, 07:10 PM
iv noticed that as well. thay do ecellarate faster than i can in the same plane and load out.

JunkoIfurita
08-04-2005, 07:14 PM
I've noticed this - mostly in a co-op NGen campaign in ardennes - P51Ds up against G14s and K4s. When flying the K4s, the P51s consistently pulled away in a dive AND a climb. Ok, it's a better aircraft - but the same thing was happening when I flew a P51 against the K4s http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif My controlled climb and shallow dive aren't THAT poor.

I'm not certain, but I've heard that the engine overheating doesn't apply to AI aircraft (or you when you have autopilot on). If so, it probably means that the AI are running at 110% power with WEP, all the time. That could explain our problems with trying to catch them.

I know for sure I have no such problems catching a P51 in a K4 online (well, they outdive me, but I can outclimb them).

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Atomic_Marten
08-04-2005, 08:04 PM
Uber Fast AI?

Yes, it is a known issue in the game.

I suppose we will have to wait for BoB's AI. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Cpt_Jack
08-04-2005, 10:11 PM
Voice of Carl from Aquateen: "Gee, I, uh . . . I thought doze guys were supposed to equalize offline playing by making the AI and player flight models the same. Looks like dey screwed up again."

horseback
08-04-2005, 10:11 PM
We seem to be getting back to the bad old days of uberAI, before PF. I have been having fits with my so-called 'wingmen' in my campaigns the last month or so.

They run away from me from waypoint to waypoint, even when the speeds specified are well below 400kph, my 'leaders' seem to be fixated on ramming me once I actually make it into my place in formation (he's supposed to be flying straight, right? I know I am). The bastages can accellerate & dive faster and recover much sooner, and if he's an 'ace', the SOB will hang back until you wing your target and then nail him from 200m behind you (and if he misses, guess who loses a wing).

I use the old Il-2 Sturmovik Single Mission packages as a reference standard, so I ran the third 190A-4 mission, where I'm the Number 2 in my flight, a low level fighter sweep that runs into a flight of Yak-9Ts. My leader got blown away in a headon pass (37mm cannon will ruin your day), so I freelanced.

I got the one Yak, and then started chasing his wingman. According to the map, I was 2km away from the nearest friendly, and doing 450kph to start the chase. It took me about 2 or 3 minutes at 110% throttle to chase my Yak down from a 1.2 km lead, at 250m alt., and just as I got him in convergence range, some yahoo blows past me in another 190 and takes my Yak's wing off.

Naturally, I killed the theiving f**k, but it took all the joy out of the experience. A human player could not have caught up to me, but the stinkin' cheating AI did. I was going close to the top end of the 190A-4 at sea level by the time I caught up to that Yak, and this joker made up at least 3km on me...

This has to be fixed. The AI cannot be allowed to take the game away from the player, and I shouldn't have to go into FMB to edit out all the bulls**t ace AI every time I fly a new campaign mission.

horseback

flox
08-04-2005, 11:07 PM
In the FUTURE we have no need for your pathetic AI, for all aircraft are controlled by virtual players in your MIND..

*nods to Cpt_Jack* http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Grey_Mouser67
08-05-2005, 08:50 PM
I know I reported in the bug list...but it doesn't hurt to see a post about it here and there.

The AI are very fast in dive and climb...lots of examples of planes like 109G6's outpacing Lightnings and barely losing ground to P-51's and Jugs above 7500meters.

Seems to often be in a climb for me...had one the other night drag me to over 9000 meters in my P-51B...yes I caught him, but based on the speed at which I was catching up, I'm guessing I was only going maybe 10km/hr faster...the Mustang should be 70km/hr or more faster at that altitude....hope Oleg addresses this one cause it does screw up immersion in offline scenarios....I fly high altitude offline missions to enjoy a high flying plane like the Mustang...having historical errors in plane performance is a little distracting to say the least.

J_Weaver
08-05-2005, 09:26 PM
I'm glad to see Its not just me. IMO this is one of the most serious bugs I've seen in IL2. It really makes off line play quite frustrating. I sure hope this gets fixed in the next patch. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Cpt_Jack
08-05-2005, 09:55 PM
They BETTER fix this in another patch. Seriously, this last one was supposed to make the AI and player flight models THE SAME. They are not the same if an Oscar climbs away from my P-38 and I have no chance in hell of catching up with him. Or if I nose-dive in a Corsair to escape from a Zeke and he stays right on my tail, ten thousand feet down. Planes like the F4U, P-38, and P-47 were supposed to be able to "walk away" from a fight at will. Now I fly almost exclusively offline, so online players shouldn't have a problem flying against each other. But, being the PTO fan that I am, if they plan to leave PF hanging like this, there is no way I will even consider buying BoB, or anything after that. This current flight model is supposed to be the beta or prototype for the one in BoB, isn't it? The last patch was supposed to fix things. Another thing I notice is that the AI are more adept at reading my f'kin mind. Even rookies know when I am below and behind them, where they are not supposed to be able to see me, and twist out of the way just as they get in my sights. AI behavior is another thread though, I guess. But PLEASE guys, don't leave PF screwed up like this.

horseback
08-05-2005, 11:07 PM
The AI have always gone back and forth between super and semi mortal, even in the original Il-2 Sturmovik. This is close to as bad as it has been.

On the plus side, the AI planes aren't the ubersnipers of FB 1.0. On the minus side, they operate their aircraft at grossly higher capacities than the player is allowed to.

One thing though, Capt_Jack. Are you playing with 'Wonder Woman' (CTL-F1) view enabled? I've found that the AI's 'awareness' dropped a little closer to human levels when I stick to cockpit view only in both QMBs and campaigns. Try it, it may help a little, at least with the rookie and average rated AI.

cheers

horseback

Cpt_Jack
08-05-2005, 11:54 PM
I always fly with cockpit on, and padlock/icons/etc. turned off. Another thing is, I thought the "equalization" of the flight models would put an end to the endless strings of barrel rolls and jinks that are impossible for me to do, no matter what plane I'm flying. But those AI ba$tards are doing it more than ever. Then they pull away from me, climbing at top speed, and a jet couldn't catch up with them. I'm starting to think these new FMs are bull$hit. The only "improvement" I've really noticed is that my plane waggles all over when I'm trying to line up a shot.

Skoshi Tiger
08-06-2005, 01:52 AM
Another thing I notice is that the AI are more adept at reading my f'kin mind. Even rookies know when I am below and behind them, where they are not supposed to be able to see me, and twist out of the way just as they get in my sights.

Are your targets by themselves or part of a flight? If any of the enemy A/C can see you lining up on one of their comrades, isn't it reasonable to assume they'ld give a warning?

Try monitoring the enemy radio channel while you're making one of these attacks!

Cpt_Jack
08-06-2005, 02:40 AM
No, I'm talking about coming up behind a single aircraft.

Grey_Mouser67
08-06-2005, 09:46 AM
AI will always be AI, and I'm certain the code is complex at best and I have deduced from some of Oleg's comments that the AI take up lots of resources from the computer which tells me there is a practical limit to the programming...but this is a bug and we've traded one uber manuevering problem for an uber speed problem...neither one of which is right.

I suspect it will be corrected. I put a copy of 3.04 back on my computer...but I don't find the bat turns to be much better.

If I were programming AI, I would definitly have different AI subroutines depending on skill and aggressiveness as well as plane design with some randomness so that if a plane were approached for 6 oclock low, for example, you might be able to sneak up on them...or if you crossed the path of an enemy aircraft that was fixated on a different target, he would take a pot shot at you etc...

But I say these things without knowledge of what it takes to program them so it may be impractical...the problem with AI is the superhuman manuevers and the predicatability that arises...the AI is still the best out there imho, but this speed thing really needs to be addressed.

You don't hear much from the offliners on this forum...Oleg, you are hearing from them now!