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View Full Version : Pe 2 - why bother?



MucusG
04-21-2006, 05:22 AM
I was just thinking why pe 2 a paid add on. I fully agree that Oleg and crew deserve more of our cash for the absolutely superb job they do of supporting this sim but pe 2 as a paid add on - I dont think so.

I would have been much happier if 4.04 + pe 2 + il10 + 46 where released together as a paid add on. Would have had a decent number of aircraft with wide appeal.

I mean how many new things did we get with AEP and then with PF, compare this to pe 2. I can see some benefit for the Russian market but this holds little interest to me.

The cynic in me looks at this as almost a pay to play scenario for onliners, low value addons that you have to buy to log on to your favourite server. As I like online play I will of course pay my money if servers need this addon.

I again congratulate Oleg and crew for the fine sim, however the marketing aspects may need some help! Just my 2 cents worth http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Chuck_Older
04-21-2006, 05:32 AM
Pretty simple-

You want to buy the next add-on? or the one after that?

Well great. But you'll need Pe-2 to make it work. Just like with PF- you wnt to run v 4.04? Well you'd better have PF installed

Please, don't say that's a strong-arm tactic for sales, they've given so much content away for absolutely free that this would be a hollow argument

Takata_
04-21-2006, 05:35 AM
Originally posted by MucusG:
I was just thinking why pe 2 a paid add on. I fully agree that Oleg and crew deserve more of our cash for the absolutely superb job they do of supporting this sim but pe 2 as a paid add on - I dont think so.

I would have been much happier if 4.04 + pe 2 + il10 + 46 where released together as a paid add on. Would have had a decent number of aircraft with wide appeal.

I mean how many new things did we get with AEP and then with PF, compare this to pe 2. I can see some benefit for the Russian market but this holds little interest to me.

The cynic in me looks at this as almost a pay to play scenario for onliners, low value addons that you have to buy to log on to your favourite server. As I like online play I will of course pay my money if servers need this addon.

I again congratulate Oleg and crew for the fine sim, however the marketing aspects may need some help! Just my 2 cents worth http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
- The real problem would be if Ubisoft just think the same, which they should. Then, What next?
Those individual add-ons are not looking worth the distribution cost: how many to produce... how many will be sold?
S~
Takata.

Brain32
04-21-2006, 05:59 AM
The real problem would be if Ubisoft just think the same, which they should. Then, What next?
Those individual add-ons are not looking worth the distribution cost: how many to produce... how many will be sold?
Well so far I haven't seen much people that have no interest in this add-on, but God those few are LOUD...

Breeze147
04-21-2006, 06:11 AM
I'll probably get it just to make it a complete series. I'll probably get Ostfront to support Ian Boys. Will I ever get around to actually playing them? Highly doubtful. I mean, has everyone been through all of those encyclopedias?

Takata_
04-21-2006, 06:18 AM
Originally posted by Brain32:
Well so far I haven't seen much people that have no interest in this add-on, but God those few are LOUD...
- Understand me well, It's nothing personnal as I will buy them as soon as I would be able to get them. But I'm not so optimistic about Ubisoft involvement on such things.
S~
Takata.

MucusG
04-21-2006, 06:20 AM
Chuck, I dont think I explained myself properly, just rambling after a long ady at work.

My problem is not with paying for an addon, I just think the addon would have been a lot more appealing if they had rolled the last patch and the 3 smallish addons into one product. ie the way the whole thing is marketed, which is probably as much Ubi as anyone.

As Takata points out there are real issues with the cost benefit analysis of distributing multiple small, presumably fairly cheap products to a small community. It costs money to set up and manage pay to download much less distibute physical product.

No disrespect was intended to Maddox games for all the excellent support (really free addons) that has happened over the years.

Von_Rat
04-21-2006, 06:47 AM
i can't help but think that if they corrected the fw forward view and a couple of american plane issues,,, alot more people would be demanding to know where to get this addon.

most people ive talked to will get it only if their favorite servers upgrade to it.

Takata_
04-21-2006, 06:53 AM
I will add something to explain it a little better:

In Russia, they are selling the Pe-2 add-on in a cheap CD case at $5 retail. This won't happen in Europe or in the States. If everybody understand that Oleg has got his own standards about his game quality content, they should understand that Ubisoft has the same about the products which are distributed through its network.

Now, everybody believe that they are Ubisoft's direct customers, but it's not the case. Ubisoft's customers are mass distribution and retailers. Those "real customers" need specifically formated products that fit their own expectatives. If it doesn't, they won't place any order at all.

Will then Ubisoft sell those add-ons direct to us? - I'm not sure, but I guess they won't. The first reason is that their "real customers" would hate that and they are not organized to do it.
Maybe it explains better why I'm not so confident with the success of such products.

Now, at the end, there is a real possibility that Oleg will give us all this hard work for free... but it's a shame, I would have paid for it.
S~
Takata.

AWL_Spinner
04-21-2006, 08:42 AM
Personally I think the stated distribution strategy is nuts (thats if we ever get it in the West).

It would make INFINITELY more sense from a publisher, technical support and customer point of view to have one big combined retail release of 4.04 - 4.07 as download or CD than three little releases, which are going to cause confusion and compatibility issues among those not familiar with the product line.

This is NOT about cost, I don't care if all three combined cost the same as three seperate releases, it's purely about tidying up a series which has JUST been tidied up with the DVD release. And I don't care if we'd have to wait longer for it.

This is going to make it all fragmented again, and that's a shame. Just when the IL2 line was getting convenient!

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

panzerd18
04-21-2006, 08:57 AM
If Ubisoft didnt bother with releasing IL-2 Complete Edition in the USA which is a huge market, Pe-2 addon has no hope. I really don't think we will see Pe-2 addon for sale outside of the C.I.S.

RCAF_Irish_403
04-21-2006, 10:11 AM
Originally posted by AWL_Spinner:
Personally I think the stated distribution strategy is nuts (thats if we ever get it in the West).

It would make INFINITELY more sense from a publisher, technical support and customer point of view to have one big combined retail release of 4.04 - 4.07 as download or CD than three little releases, which are going to cause confusion and compatibility issues among those not familiar with the product line.

This is NOT about cost, I don't care if all three combined cost the same as three seperate releases, it's purely about tidying up a series which has JUST been tidied up with the DVD release. And I don't care if we'd have to wait longer for it.

This is going to make it all fragmented again, and that's a shame. Just when the IL2 line was getting convenient!

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Kind of my take as well

AFJ_Locust
04-21-2006, 10:27 AM
Originally posted by AWL_Spinner:
Personally I think the stated distribution strategy is nuts (thats if we ever get it in the West).

It would make INFINITELY more sense from a publisher, technical support and customer point of view to have one big combined retail release of 4.04 - 4.07 as download or CD than three little releases, which are going to cause confusion and compatibility issues among those not familiar with the product line.

This is NOT about cost, I don't care if all three combined cost the same as three seperate releases, it's purely about tidying up a series which has JUST been tidied up with the DVD release. And I don't care if we'd have to wait longer for it.

This is going to make it all fragmented again, and that's a shame. Just when the IL2 line was getting convenient!

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

I gota agree with Spinner, It does make more sence.

Yambretta
04-21-2006, 10:27 AM
personally I feel the addons should have been added into the dvd for various reasons.
1) keeps a tidy install package.
2) Increased dvd sales because now people would have had a added incentive to buy it. (I own all the cd's and the dvd so please no support game arguments at me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif)

Shame of it was seeing dvd in bargain bin of local shops after a week whereas bundling add-ons with dvd would still draw new blood in but also offer something to old hands at the game increasing sales and increasing the revenue received.

would be interesting to know roughly what the dvd sales are http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

crazyivan1970
04-21-2006, 10:29 AM
I think everybody forgot that initially Pe-2, IL-10 and VVS 1946 Addon were meant for Russia. And it was us who wanted them released world wide, no?

Also, apparently we forgot about nice free addon that we just recived not too long ago....hmmm how quickly we forget.

Yambretta
04-21-2006, 10:32 AM
but wouldn't this marketing strat alienate (or however you spell it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif) the russian online community from the rest of the world which seems kinda crazy.

crazyivan1970
04-21-2006, 10:35 AM
Originally posted by Yambretta:
but wouldn't this marketing strat alienate (or however you spell it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif) the russian online community from the rest of the world which seems kinda crazy.


But that didnt happen, did it? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Skycat_2
04-21-2006, 10:39 AM
Okay, we know that there is a version of Pe-2 with English briefings, so an international version is at least partially finished. Otherwise, Ian Boys wouldn't have been able to write his review for SimHQ about Pe-2 with the warning that the briefings are excellent but the tranlations are sometimes rough.

Since both UbiSoft and 1C:MG have been suspiciously quiet about the Pe-2/IL-10/46 market plan, and threads have been locked right and left on the subject, I feel it is my right and my duty to wildly speculate as to what is going on. After all, if we don't spread bizarre and unfounded rumours then the spokesmen will never learn that it is in their best interest to keep we unwashed masses informed:

Oleg wanted to do a truly complete DVD that included the Russian addons. This would have been the 'swan song' for the series and Oleg wouldn't have to worry about distribution or patches or anything else until BoB was ready. Ubi Soft said, "No way, it will take too long to finalize the DVD if you include the Russian addons." Ubi Soft wanted to ship the DVD right away so that it could limit the IL-2 inventory to just one product instead of a variety of standalones, expansions, gold packs, etc. Meanwhile, Oleg began to have second thoughts as to whether the DVD might be considered a 'new' release that would violate any agreements with lawyers from the military-industrial complex, so he decided to test Ubi Soft's commitment to the series by threatening to not license the DVD in North America, arguing that he'd be putting himself out on limb over possible legal hot water and so he needed a warm fuzzy from Ubi Soft. Ubi Soft called his bluff by saying that it wouldn't distribute the Russian addons then, which probably would have been low sellers anyhow even if in some kind of combined format. Oleg started shopping around for a different Western distributor, hopefully to shake Ubi Soft up a little in the pre-BoB courtship. Ubi Soft held its ground, so 1C:MG started exploring the idea of paid downloads instead and is currently finalizing a website for international transactions. Ubi Soft, seeing that it might have forced a break in its partnership with Maddox Games, has finally relented and is back in negotiations over distribution rights. This recent turn of events has delayed the world-wide release of Pe-2 ...

I just made all of that up. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

TheGozr
04-21-2006, 10:42 AM
What is insteresting is that the small software included inside that allow you to place the "mods" in and out at will. you can switch at will from 404 and 405 in a click of a mouse.
DO the il10 and 46 will be the same.. maybe, i don't know.

crazyivan1970
04-21-2006, 10:42 AM
You are good Skycat. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Yambretta
04-21-2006, 10:46 AM
What is insteresting is that the small software included inside that allow you to place the "mods" in and out at will. you can switch at will from 404 and 405 in a click of a mouse.
DO the il10 and 46 will be the same.. maybe, i don't know.

thats info I didn't know http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


and skycat makes the most sense lol http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

TacticalYak3
04-21-2006, 01:02 PM
I personally think it is the right decision to release any and all official add-ons to the worldwide IL-2 fan base.

I too agree with the thread starter concerning my personal lack of interest specifically in the Pe add-on, but my interest in all official releases and support/enjoyment of this series.

For all the people who take offence to this, please show us the countless posts requesting this specific plane prior to the announcement of this add-on. Sure there may have been some in the community, heck there's not a plane out there that someone hasn't ask for.

The point is that unlike the Aces Expansion add-on, which is what some (many) would have hope happen with the release of one large add-on (instead of three small ones), folks might find themselves unable to enjoy particular servers as they decide to purchase this first add-on sooner than they intended, and for some guys buying online opposed to going down to their local store might be a new and unwelcome experience.

Personally I am fine with purchasing the download, but readily admit that I would have preferred a single add-on package that I purchased from a local store instead. And as mentioned this would have resulted in a smoother transition for the online community, making it easier to provide support by Maddox Games. All this seems reasonable to me. Perhaps this is where the argument dies? That dreaded reasonableness thing again. And at these forums at all places - gasp!

TS!

AWL_Spinner
04-21-2006, 01:18 PM
Crazyivan1970:

I think everybody forgot that initially Pe-2, IL-10 and VVS 1946 Addon were meant for Russia. And it was us who wanted them released world wide, no? Also, apparently we forgot about nice free addon that we just recived not too long ago....hmmm how quickly we forget.


Ivan, I don't think anyone's put out at the content, or the price (whatever that may be, no-one's got a clue!) for us in the West.

We're (mostly!) all extremely grateful for the additional work and the time it's taken to convert for "our" market. I think the continued support for this game series is fantastic and it's important that we continue to be able to fly and fight with our Russian colleagues online.

What bugs me is that given the difficulty in arranging the release for the Western market in the first place, it would have been much more straightforward for all parties if there was a combined release. What happens if we get one or two out of the three and then the plug is pulled? We have no idea what the delivery method will be (no concrete word on this).

There's been, after a promising start, a complete absence of information on how these expansions might arrive, when, and for how much. This gets everyone on edge and rightly concerned given the patchy enthusiasm for the Western market that's been previously evident (not from 1C, but the distributor, witness the lack of a North American DVD)

I don't think these are silly concerns.

Kocrachon
04-21-2006, 02:06 PM
I dont mind giving out pocket change for a small add-on that I want. Of course Id gladly pay like, 20 bucks just for the B-29 =P. But if this is 5 bucks I have no problem getting it.

Edbert
04-21-2006, 02:38 PM
Originally posted by AWL_Spinner:it's purely about tidying up a series which has JUST been tidied up with the DVD release.
Yup, and I just bought the DVD release (paid money for titles I already bought with the free patches slipstreamed) yesterday in order to tidy up the installation...sigh.

tagTaken2
04-22-2006, 12:23 AM
I've wondered before just how big the russian market is. And whether there is continual screaming on the forums for flyable pe-2, similar to the b-17/29 here. Further, just how many russians never gave a flying **** about the whole northrop/grumman issue.
I'll buy everything for support/completeness, and because I just might enjoy it.