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View Full Version : Are hospital ships a legitimate target ?



Shahed_Kazi
08-23-2006, 10:21 AM
Hi All

Are hospital ships a legitimate target or are they neutral ?

I'm playing GW1.1, Br's ship mod, SH3C.

Thanks for the help.

Realjambo
08-23-2006, 10:30 AM
Generally speaking no. You can lose a lot of renown for sinking one, despite it's tonnage. That said, someone recebtly posted the opposite hapenned when they sank one.
In reality they wouud have been left alone I pretty certain. Besides, you'd have it on your conscience for years afterwards!

tankerdestroyer
08-23-2006, 10:47 AM
however, in real life the Lucitania (maybe wrong spelling) was sunk by a uboat. She was a sister ship of the Titanic that was a passenger liner but the same ethics apply I think but that was WWI anyway.

tuddley3
08-23-2006, 11:00 AM
Has anyone heard of the gENEVA cONVENTION. a HOSPITAL SHIP IS LIKE A mash uNIT. yOU MAY RECEIVE RENOWN(DONT KNOW), BUT IT IS JUST IMMORAL.

Shahed_Kazi
08-23-2006, 11:34 AM
Like the last one this thread in not about morality, it's about the game.


All I wanted to know is if it is a legitimate target IN THE GAME. So finally I'm still not sure, because BR's mod has Chatham hospital ships which are obviously British, hence enemy and hence... ???

Again this is not an off topic thread, this is about the game, so kindly keep it game related, please.

Realjambo
08-23-2006, 11:48 AM
Ok Shahed, just to clarify. IN THE GAME they are not legitimate targets. The general consensus is you lose a lot of renown. BR's Chatham ships in the mod I suspect are present only for realism.

Danelov
08-23-2006, 11:51 AM
Yes,"Lusitania" was sunk by Schweiger's U-20 in WWI but was a ship from the Mauretania class; "Titanic" brothers were "Olympic" and "Britannic", this last sunk by Mine in the Egeo also in WWI and was at this time a British hospital ship.

Shahed_Kazi
08-23-2006, 12:45 PM
Ok got it. Thanks a lot for the clarification ! Appreciated !

elitecomando
08-23-2006, 08:02 PM
so sinking hospital ship in gw = -reknown or +tonnage

is GW based of tonnage or reknown.

Goose_Green
08-23-2006, 08:32 PM
GW is based on renown, while NYGM mod is based on tonnage, where by the mod replaces all renown values for tonnage, which in my opinion SHOULD have been there in the first place. The add ons for your sub don't cost money but time to install and test before you go out on patrol.

So for example a new gadget to detect aircraft would take 5 days to install and then a further 15 days to test, train and so forth - that's an extra 20 days before you sail on your next patrol, bear in mind that your crew need time to chill and see their loved ones as part of the R+R package. So in effect you could spend nearly 2 months at dock!

Shahed_Kazi
08-23-2006, 08:56 PM
Originally posted by Realjambo:
Ok Shahed, just to clarify. IN THE GAME they are not legitimate targets. The general consensus is you lose a lot of renown. BR's Chatham ships in the mod I suspect are present only for realism.

Wait ! One )preemptive) question, if I see a British Chantham hospital ship, should I open fire or not ?

RitterkreuzU35
08-23-2006, 09:30 PM
Well you could try it and find out for sure, I have actualy done it twice [not purposefully but things happen] and I was rewarded for it both times[in GW with SHIII comander] Thats why I asked in a different thread if this was a bug or not. I still will not intentionaly shoot at one but if it doesnt bother you to do so go for it.

Shahed_Kazi
08-23-2006, 09:37 PM
I have never violated the rules of engagement. Never shot at a ship (unless obviously enemy) without identifying the flag, even in heavy fog and rain !

If it's a target within the rules of engagement then it's dead.

Gandhi said "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." I sometimes wish for change but while I'm still thinking about it, I'm in the status quo. I'll shoot at what I'm supposed to kill.

RitterkreuzU35
08-23-2006, 09:48 PM
Then dont shoot at it, Hospital ships regardless of nationality were never legitimate targets under international law, why did you ask the question then in the first place?

Shahed_Kazi
08-24-2006, 05:40 AM
Well I wasn't sure if it's legitimate target or not.

Gmuno
08-24-2006, 05:52 AM
It ain't.

Baldricks_Mate
08-24-2006, 06:12 AM
Has any one noticed that when a ship sinks there are no lifeboats with survivors in it?

Ever wondered why?

In the stock game have you ever noticed any hospital ships?

Ever wondered why?

Because amateur kaeluns with a sociopathic bone to pick would probably silde up to the lifeboat, real quite like, and proceed to flak gun them to death and think that it was kinda funny, cool or amusing to see the little bodies flying about and how it only takes one round from a heavy flak to decapitate the fella at the helm.

Hospital ships...sinking with already wounded on board? Don't even go there.

I would shoot in cold blood any one from my crew who tried to effect such a policy. Maybe even my Flotilla Captain too, in his very cosy office chair. On shore. In front of his Boss.

How one plays a game can betray so much about them. I couldn't give a blue fig about the tonnage or renown involved.

The lines we cross are first hurdled over in our minds, then later, more easily, in life, with our hands.

Goose_Green
08-24-2006, 06:21 AM
I read here on this forum, a long while ago about the missing lifeboats and survivors from the game. Too much for the game to handle, each person would need some form of AI, the game struggles even now at times so I think they had a good enough reason.

From a purely ethical point of view Baldricks_Mate has got it spot on.

There were very rare cicumstances where U-Boat commanders gunned down survivors of ships they had just sank. If it was safe to do so, they would point them in the right direction to land (if they were near land that is) give them whatever rations and cigarettes they could spare - and also would get the ships name as well so they could confirm their sinking to BDU HQ.

But think about this, if you were in mid Atlantic, in a dinghy or something where the chances of surviving were extremely low and with no chance of immediate rescue I think I would rather be put out of my misery quickly by a machine gun - becuase it would be a very long and dreadful end at the mercy of the ocean.

bweiss
08-24-2006, 06:25 AM
The skinny on submarine treatment of sunken ship survivors at least according to U-Boat Net's author, Ken Dunn.

Treatment of Merchant Ship Survivors by U-boat Crews 1939 - 1945 (http://uboat.net/articles/index.html?article=55)

Goose_Green
08-24-2006, 06:32 AM
Excellent read, thanks for posting http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Baldricks_Mate
08-24-2006, 06:46 AM
As for machine gunning survivors (from the U Boat point of view):

Eck & Peleus (http://uboat.net/boats/u852.htm)

As for picking up survivors:

Laconia Incident (http://uboat.net/ops/laconia.htm)

Summary of Geneva Conventions, history and development:

Laws Of War (http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/lawofwar/lawwar.htm)

Lifeboats would have been easy to put into SH3, no different to any other ship type, no huge graphics task, not particularly interactive, just like the boxes that come off a sinking ship in the game anyway.

Ahh but the temptation???

Blood_Splat
08-25-2006, 09:02 AM
Yeah it does get kind of annoying sinking ghost ships. I wish someone could mod people on the ships, it wouldn't have to be of great detail just something to add for the environment and feel.

tuddley3
08-25-2006, 12:44 PM
Try the Pyro Mod, found at Uboat.Realsim. If ship has guns, the crew get flung into air and scream for dear life when you sink ship.http://foolstown.com/sm/shrk.gif