PDA

View Full Version : Don't be mad at companies..I think UBI screwed up..here's why:



Oilburner_TAW
12-17-2004, 11:16 PM
Disregarding for the moment the utter lack of common sense in enforcing these copyrights in a freakin' game..

Depending on the types of other games you play, this may or may not be something you are used to. In addition to flight sims, I am also an avid Nascar racing fan and play exclusively NR2003 Season by Papyrus. One thing I have always remembered from their games (there was Nascar 1, Nascar 2, Nascar 3, etc...) is when you "quit" the game credits scroll by, and there are literally pages of credits for car manufacturers, race teams (so you can have cars in the game that actually raced in real life..not fictional car teams), and the tracks. I have looked all through the installed game, and through all the documents that came with FB,AEP,PF and have found nothing but the same two copyright notes (1C and Ubisoft).

Nascar 1 (it was just called Nascar Racing) came out before IL-2 did (the original) and even back then they were acknowleding everybody and anybody in the game, so why hasn't UBI?

This is not a "new" thing for games, and not a "new" thing for flight sims (FLY! for example had to change the names of all of their planes).

So, leaving emotion out for a second, based on the fact that there is a long-standing precedent for acknowleding copyrights/trademarks (i get them confused) in games, why has this NEVER been done in any of the IL-2 games?

And more importantly..WHY CAN'T IT BE DONE NOW?????

I'm afraid the answer to the second question is that UBI doesn't want to spend the $$$.


This may all be nonsense, but after thinking about if for a while and going through what I know logically, this is what I have concluded.


ps.

I WANT A FLYABLE TBF...even if it's called the Groomean Scavenger.

LEXX_Luthor
12-17-2004, 11:48 PM
An idea I saw posted at sinhq...

FB and AEP boxes *never* mention US corporation names. PF box named names. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif

All this happens about a month after PF releace.

If I recall, several weeks ago Oleg said he was NOT Happy with PF box, although most had the impression that was because of Flyable G4M mistakenly listed on the box.

eddiemac0
12-18-2004, 12:11 AM
Are their copyrights on the designations (ie, Grumman doesn't own "F6F" and Vought "F4U")?

Latico
12-18-2004, 12:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by eddiemac0:
Are their copyrights on the designations (ie, Grumman doesn't own "F6F" and Vought "F4U")? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The designation? probably not. The airframe designs? most likely YES. Those designs ARE copyright-able and were most likely registered back when the designs were drawn up.

F19_Orheim
12-18-2004, 03:26 AM
According to this they "own" a number of designations such as B-24 etc

http://www.lockheedmartin.com/wms/findPage.do?dsp=fec&ci=2&rsbci=0&fti=0&ti=0&sc=400

Texas LongHorn
12-18-2004, 03:26 AM
I jumped in on a similer post a while ago. I don't think it a copyright issue, but rather a "trademark" issue. The two are VERY different in US law. The copyright has to be renewed where the trademark essentially lives on forever. Of course I am greatly condensing the issues that could face the courts, but the meaning is clear enough. UBI made a mistake, an apology and a splash on the software box would go a long way, Grumman is not against a little free publicity. All the best, LongHorn

Ruy Horta
12-18-2004, 03:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by eddiemac0:
YES. Those designs ARE copyright-able and were most likely registered back when the designs were drawn up. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sure in the 50-ies they could still be seen in that light, but 50 years later they are historical objects recreated to simulate historic events. You don't have to ask permission to model a Wildcat, Sherman or M1 rifle. They all have become part of a common history.

The name Grumman has not...simple.

WWSensei
12-18-2004, 06:01 AM
Seeing as I have two other games, one of them recently released on another platform, that list aircraft, by-name, from the same companies being complained about here I think this is not the aircraft companies complaining here.

I'm betting another gaming company or publisher bought the exclusive rights to use those names and Ubisoft dropped the ball by not securing the usage rights.

Much like Electronic Arts has exclusive rights to use NFL team names and logos...

aminx
12-18-2004, 06:33 AM
I just rushed to my cupboard and brought out my Italian copy and it says clearly Gruman, Vought. etc on the back of the dvd box.This explains the panic to sell out the existing stock as quickly as possible here in Europe with this weecks UBISOFT offer straight to our desk tops,no wonder Luthier hightailed it to Siberia.
aminx

aminx
12-18-2004, 06:35 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/aminx/11.jpg

this is what we all received in Europe 2 days ago in our email from UBI.
aminx

Oilburner_TAW
12-18-2004, 10:18 AM
As a a footnote, my beloved Nascar series (truly to racing as IL-2 is to flying) went out of business because EA bought exclusive rights to the use of several race track names and ulitimately, to the use and representation of Nascar and it's series. Now all that's available is console arcade style ****.

Thog-
12-18-2004, 11:51 AM
"As a a footnote, my beloved Nascar series (truly to racing as IL-2 is to flying) went out of business because EA bought exclusive rights to the use of several race track names and ulitimately, to the use and representation of Nascar and it's series. Now all that's available is console arcade style ****."

I've seen this before too, and it's worse than most people think in long term effects.

The current trademark/copyright/patent approach to software law is badly broken and misfitted. It's also being abused now regularly by various corps. That's the nature of any competative organization; use the rules to your best advantage to win.

The law needs to be overhauled, and there's talk of it happening. Unfortunately, I doubt that the current administration will back any changes due to pressure from the successful practitioners of the current laws (meaning corps, not lawyers). The longer it goes on, the more entrenched it becomes, and the worse the impact to the industry as a whole.

I literally cannot calculate the scope of the negative impact on the software industry that this kind of thing represents. Protection of intellectual property is needed, but the current tools are not fitted to this context, and the use of branding in this way is severely damaging to the growth and creativity of the industry.

If you want to do something, do the research and contact your congressmen and senators.

Wolf_Fangs1381
12-18-2004, 03:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aminx:
I just rushed to my cupboard and brought out my Italian copy and it says clearly Gruman, Vought. etc on the back of the dvd box.
aminx <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hello Everyone,

Okay how about this. Ubi can send each person who bought PF a new box cover minus Grumman,Vought,etc. Then everyone can burn the box cover that has those names on it. Thats one way to resolve the issue if this is really about Ubi/IC using those names. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif =S=

P.S. I am just being sarcastic about this. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

stansdds
12-18-2004, 06:15 PM
And you might not be far from the truth!

13sqGambler
12-18-2004, 06:21 PM
OT

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> As a a footnote, my beloved Nascar series (truly to racing as IL-2 is to flying) went out of business because EA bought exclusive rights to the use of several race track names and ulitimately, to the use and representation of Nascar and it's series. Now all that's available is console arcade style ****. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, EA paid ISC/NASCAR a TON of money to switch from Papyrus/Sierra to ISI/EA for the 2004 season, when Papy's rights expired. It was also mentioned that Sierra wasn't that interested in renewing Papy's contract but on a short term basis and Sierra also thought the NR series had run it's course.

Good news about that though is now...Dave Kaemmer has joined forces with the owner of the Boston Red Sox, John Henry, to form First Racing. They're taking Beta tester apps right now for their newest creation. Can't wait for it... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

LEXX_Luthor
12-18-2004, 06:55 PM
Squirral:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Ubi can send each person who bought PF a new box cover minus Grumman, Vought, etc. Then everyone can burn the box cover that has those names on it. Thats one way to resolve the issue if this is really about Ubi/IC using those names. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Or we can all just pen out the Names for ourselves. I'm in a right mind to do that anyway about now. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

-- not really, Oilburner_TAW may be right, UBI may have Porked their box.

Latico
12-18-2004, 07:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Oilburner_TAW:
As a a footnote, my beloved Nascar series (truly to racing as IL-2 is to flying) went out of business because EA bought exclusive rights to the use of several race track names and ulitimately, to the use and representation of Nascar and it's series. Now all that's available is console arcade style ****. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You can be assured that EA paid a hugh premium for those "Exclusive Rights"