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XyZspineZyX
06-25-2003, 11:12 PM
There's a patch coming out - I can wait.

The FM isn't perfect- I don't care.

Trolls fill the halls - I ignore them.

People are ranting - I'm not listening.

The whachamacallit on the FW-109 and the Me-87 and all the other whoozits and frinjammers are only 90% historically correct - I haven't noticed.

I bought IL2 and FB to have fun. Period. And I am having fun. A beer in one hand and a flightstick in the other. Great graphics and the sound up high. Is it because I have a girlfriend and a job that I'm not losing it over the imperfections? I think some people need to go out in the sunshine a bit more and mellow out. It's just a sim, though a damn fine one at that!

Thanks to Oleg, the modders and the moderators for providing so much flying fun for us boys to play with. Do what you do when you do it and we'll be here to enjoy it.

(Apologies for venting in public)

XyZspineZyX
06-25-2003, 11:12 PM
There's a patch coming out - I can wait.

The FM isn't perfect- I don't care.

Trolls fill the halls - I ignore them.

People are ranting - I'm not listening.

The whachamacallit on the FW-109 and the Me-87 and all the other whoozits and frinjammers are only 90% historically correct - I haven't noticed.

I bought IL2 and FB to have fun. Period. And I am having fun. A beer in one hand and a flightstick in the other. Great graphics and the sound up high. Is it because I have a girlfriend and a job that I'm not losing it over the imperfections? I think some people need to go out in the sunshine a bit more and mellow out. It's just a sim, though a damn fine one at that!

Thanks to Oleg, the modders and the moderators for providing so much flying fun for us boys to play with. Do what you do when you do it and we'll be here to enjoy it.

(Apologies for venting in public)

XyZspineZyX
06-25-2003, 11:15 PM
Xactly!

Hell, the cockpit of the FW-190 hasn't changed a bit since Il-2 came out and now, all of a sudden, it isn't good anymore!

BTW, do you live in Beiroet?

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye
shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be
measured to you again.

http://members.chello.se/ven/ham-pin.gif

XyZspineZyX
06-25-2003, 11:37 PM
Yeah,having a life helps.

XyZspineZyX
06-25-2003, 11:46 PM
Beirut wrote:
- There's a patch coming out - I can wait.
-
- The FM isn't perfect- I don't care.
-
- Trolls fill the halls - I ignore them.
-
- People are ranting - I'm not listening.


Ignorance is bliss, isn't it?

<img src=http://lafayettefederation.com/screenshots/repository/turo/tn-Numbaone.jpg>
"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

XyZspineZyX
06-25-2003, 11:54 PM
ignorance is bliss, huh?

how do you claim that not noticing minor details in the cockpits or FM as ignorance?

and ignoring trolls and ranters is ignorance?

patience is ignorance?


hmmmm.


I agree. I don't care that a hurricane can turn really fast when I'm going 2.5 times its speed and sawing off its wings.

I don't care that the 262 can likewise turn too fast when I graze a juno and it bursts into flame.

I can wait for the patch.

I don't care that a bunch of people who have never actually flown anything but a desk are whining about how planes do not fly as they should, even though their only sources are stories reproduced online told by oldtimers who flew their planes as if they wished to live and were by no means areonauticle engineers.


I do care when I'm behind a Yak and another Yak is behind me when we are all shooting at the guy in front in a verticle climb . . . . oooo, the joy!

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 12:01 AM
Platypus,

Nope, live north of Montreal, Quebec, in the mountains. Beirut was my dog. Lab-Newfie-St-Bernard. 14 years together.

RBJ,

Ignorance is bliss if it means ignoring you. I therefore am blissfull and you may consider yourself ingnored.

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 02:32 AM
OK, I agree that the hostility of the whiners can grate.

But I'm also sick of the blanket excuse for bugged flight-simulators - "gee, if you only had a *life*, you wouldn't care." Please.

I have a fiancee, a full-time job as a professional and an active social life. Yet I'm still irked at what a step back the initial release of FB was compared to IL-2.

Why do I care? Even though by most standards I do indeed have a life?

Because the reason I enjoy flight simulators is the drama of simulated *reality*. I have a pilots license, and like many here, have a large collection of aviation books. The fun of a historical flight simulator is the drama of being put in situations or aircraft that really existed. If you've read the accounts of RAF pilots and the awe with which they saw the first FW-190s over the English Channel, you feel a thrill when you first see a FW-190 in the game as a Russian pilot. That's a tension that wouldn't exist if it was just a generic XR-270 from some sci-fi game.

Yet when the FW-190 I read about in the books, and the FW-190 I see in the game don't match, then in some ways it is worse than if it WAS just a XR-270 UFO. If you bill yourself as a historical simulator, and then major elements of those historical planes are inaccurate, you deserve to be criticized.

If I'm looking for a shoot em'up with flying objects, there's always Wing Commander or X-Wing. So c'mon guys, debate the sim on its merits or on how much fun you're having, but let's retire that lame old excuse of "get a life". It's insulting to those of us who care about the history and the aircraft.

Istari

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 02:50 AM
Beirut........... I like the way you think!!!
I have done a lot in my day...I have had a lot of fun, spent lots of cash, been half way around the world....but have more fun comparatively for the $39 I spent for than anything else bang for buck wise. When the "fun" of other things has long faded...this sim is still going strong...daily...and I am not tired of it yet..the prospect of the patch arriving and only making it better only makes me appreciate it all more.


<CENTER>http://www.world-wide-net.com/tuskegeeairmen/ta-1943.jpg <marquee><FONT COLOR="RED"><FONT SIZE="+1">"Straighten up.......Fly right..~S~"<FONT SIZE> </marquee> http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat

<CENTER><FONT COLOR="ORANGE">vflyer@comcast.net<FONT COLOR>
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XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 02:54 AM
"A beer in one hand and a flightstick in the other. Great graphics and the sound up high."



Total agreement here. This is way better than FS 1 on a tandy, and of course the beer.



Message Edited on 06/26/0301:55AM by Phist25

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 03:15 AM
Istari6,

Didn't mean to insult. Especially those who appreciate historical accuracy. I simply can't understand the endless whining about a $60 flight sim that probably has better value and customer service than any other.

The way some people whine about their failed expactations with this sim you would think they married it. That's where the "get a life" comment might apply.

Fun, brother. It's the only reason.

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 03:19 AM
I sometimes think that the more "realistic" a simulation getts, the more whining there will be.

If the sim was less real, there wouldnt be so much to discuss!

So, when im feeling optimistic, i like to think all the whining is a compliment to the creators of the game, and confirmation that this sim is one of the most "realistic" games out there.

You are right,' said Pangloss, 'for, when man was placed in the Garden of Eden, he was placed there ut operaretur eum, to dress it and keep it; which proves that man was not born for idleness.' 'Let us work without theorizing," said Martin, 'tis the only way to make life endurable.'"-- Voltaire, Candide

<img src =http://www.unicef.ca/eng/unicef/lessons/peace/images/peace.gif>

"There's only one culture: strangle the last priest with the entrails of the last Rosicrucian."
-- Foucault's Pendulum, Chapter 33

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 03:22 AM
Happiness is when you spend 100's of hours studying the planes (in the sim, not real life of course) performance and apply your knowledge to beat pilots online who think they are good.

When I take off and fly, it's like Jimi Hendrix doing a solo.

Sure I could just grab a beer and say "whoopee I'm flying!" but some people have higher standards (like me).

<img src=http://lafayettefederation.com/screenshots/repository/turo/tn-Numbaone.jpg>
"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 03:42 AM
I AGREE COMPLETELY!

So what if a model is somewhat off, noone here can prove it, did they fly it, no? Could I care? Not really, as long as I16 isnt faster than La5, im fine.

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 03:54 AM
I think I'm RayBanJockey's double! I too use the "ignorance is bliss" line. I too pretend like I am better at gaming than I really am and constantly change my name to avoid others notice and poking fun at me. I too feel insecure about my social life. I too only dream of something such as "trim on a slider" to make a loser like me as good as the people out there who know about tactics and real flying. I too wish I had a life. Oh cruel world!

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 03:54 AM
RBJ, funny you should say its like Hendrix playing a solo when you talk about studying and applying it to flying. While one of the best ever, Jimi didn't exactly spend hours on end studying music, he played from the soul, instinct. And if Jimi played FB, you know he would be flying high. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.mucheswarbirds.com/image60.jpg

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 04:14 AM
I am a huge Jimi fan, I have like 50 CD's most of them bootlegs. I have studied his history. Now he did spend enormous quantities of time learning to get good, but that wasn't the point.

The point is, any GREAT blues guitarist, when he does a solo, he has to prove something. It can't be the same every time and when he is done, there is no doubt in the audience's mind that he is great, and was completley going off, having proved with creativity and skill who is the best.

<img src=http://lafayettefederation.com/screenshots/repository/turo/tn-Numbaone.jpg>
"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 08:02 AM
Yeah Jimmy was great and I spent alot of my time in Jim's world and feeling his music.
To original poster.happiness in sims is an individual thing as in all apsects of life.I like round butts and olive skin girls while my friend is a slinky-tall/blondeaholic.
I like tight looking skin plumped up and looking to burst while my friend likes em soft and mushy?Go figure!

Ok off track/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Its all about realism...give me a sim where I take off and struggle to get airborne from fuel and bombload and then feel this weight go away hoepfully in tune with spotting fighters.The more real a sim gets the harder it becomes and the more for me the immersion grows.


I like coming here and reading that certain plane cant get to the speeds posted in aircraft viewer and then waiting for oleg to fix.I like flying into a head on pass with my butcherbird against a Rata and pulling straight up and seeing the Rata turning hard and losing speed and thus not being able to follow me up.When this doesnt happen I dont have happiness.

The fact is that we who strive for realism here doesnt make us just whiners but instead were just trying to satisy our views on a game that comes from a developer that wants the same thing.I would love to take a pure B&Z against a T&B'er or the other way around.Find out how to do it and get good at it.I want the gauges to look and behave the way they did in WW2 times as this feeds my immersion level and brings me my type of happiness .

My above mentioned friend is a Crimson skies fanatic and trys to like FB.He is waiting with as much anticipation as we have for the patch for the new Lucasarts arcade sim "Secret Weapons Over Normandy".I tried his Crimson skies and in two minutes I was knocking em out left and right to his amazement.

The way I look at it is Oleg is a realism nut and we who like FB for the most part are after the same thing so our minds mesh and stuff.../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 11:23 AM
I´m happy - hope you guys are too.

I wanna spread some good karma...

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif



S!

M0NS



"Blow up the outside world"

http://www.flugwerk.de/images/01k.jpg
My garage!

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 11:33 AM
RayBanJockstrap wrote:
- Bleh bleh bleh
-
- When I take off and fly, it's like Jimi Hendrix
- doing a solo.
-
- etc etc.

Does this mean you burst into flames a lot then? Hendrix was fond of setting his guitars alight. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Back to the original post, I too play Il2 and FB for fun (and I like a beer in the cockpit too /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif ) I have read many books on WW2 aviation but I wouldn't take my hobby as a background on technical or military matters.

I simply enjoy the game, warts an all. It's not perfect but it's as good as you'll get so far.




<center>
http://blankgiro.freewebspace.com/IL2/soapy112th.jpg
</center>

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 12:06 PM
There is a difference between playing to win as a squad and lamenting the shortcomings of the sim to the point that it's not fun. How naive to think that not foaming at the mouth about a millimeter of cockpit clearance (or insert your favorite rant here) equates to not flying your best.

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 04:48 PM
I fly so badly youd think I had a beer in both hands,I still luv FB/IL2/STRIKE FIGHTER/and cant wait for LOMAC.

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 06:11 PM
Well I try and take a more middle position on this issue, as far as people ranting or whining. There are some legit complaints and I think all of us would still think this is the best sim if nothing changes and no patch ever comes!!
But one thing I noticed is that most of the people who are happy with the sim as it is now are online players. And I can understand that since they are easier to please. But try and work through a offline campaign with some of the limitations and problems and you may feel differently. I have pointed out problems ( not really whining ) before and I think it's a great way to make a sim better. What's wrong with improvement?? So many people are against improving this sim, it amazes me. Just as long as we don't "rant" but we are instead objectively and constructively pointing out deficiencies. I don't have a problem with that like some of you more complacent types. A lot of people also think it's insulting to Oleg and the rest of the Maddox team to point out problems. I think you'll find that they really want us to help them out by pointing these things out. If some think it's whining, then so be it. If I were in Olegs position, I would be Ok with everyones opinion and consider
all angles.

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 06:47 PM
Point taken. Pointing out problems wasnt really what I was reffering to but I suppose that wasnt clear. (just re-read it) I'm sure Oleg and company appreciate feedback. So long as its done in a respectfull manner. I see things that arent perfect and that maybe dont work exactly as they should. The point of this thread, as I see it, was to say that even with the problems, this is far superior to anything else out there. And put in that perspective, it's a huge amount of fun AS IS. (granted I almost excluslivley play online) It's also way better than playing black and white ww1 from Flight Simulator 1 on an old Tandy PC.

Having been in these community's for a while, It's MHO that certain people live to berate the Dev's and complain endlessly and thats the goal. their 15 minutes as it were. Not to play the games.

XyZspineZyX
06-28-2003, 01:11 AM
I agree with Beirut on FB

I just like it. Anything added to it can just make it better and I'm thankful for what I get.

The guitar tho is my business it's what I do ----everyone plays the guitar for different reasons----and some don't play they just use it towards their own ends.

"there is no spoon."
wbuttler

XyZspineZyX
06-28-2003, 01:29 AM
Don't get me wrong, I'm a great fan of historical accuracy and appreciate those who appreciate it and are well informed enough to know the difference.

The problem is those who whine without end, crying that "it should have been THIS way not THAT way". The way some people carry on you'd think they have a contract with Oleg for "pleasurable favours owed". It's a flight sim, not your wife.

It's a great sim and I'm thankfull that the Powers That Be offer good customer support, listen to the community and offer free upgrades, as in the great patches for the original IL2. I paid the $60, bought FB, got excellent free online help to make it run properly and now the guys who already have my money are trying to give me more than what I paid for.

The way I see it, things are pretty darned good and only getting better.

XyZspineZyX
06-28-2003, 10:24 PM
Beirut wrote:
- Don't get me wrong, I'm a great fan of historical
- accuracy and appreciate those who appreciate it and
- are well informed enough to know the difference.
-
- The problem is those who whine without end, crying
- that "it should have been THIS way not THAT way".
- The way some people carry on you'd think they have a
- contract with Oleg for "pleasurable favours owed".
- It's a flight sim, not your wife.
-
- It's a great sim and I'm thankfull that the Powers
- That Be offer good customer support, listen to the
- community and offer free upgrades, as in the great
- patches for the original IL2. I paid the $60, bought
- FB, got excellent free online help to make it run
- properly and now the guys who already have my money
- are trying to give me more than what I paid for.
-
- The way I see it, things are pretty darned good and
- only getting better.
-
-

Wow do people dislike each other here cause there seems to be alot of hosility in some threads?