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Hartford688
10-10-2004, 10:04 AM
Sorry...this subject has been beaten around a lot, but I would just like some feedback on...is Track IR essential to do any good in Il2:FB? I have had Il2, FB etc for absolutely years, but I am terrible. So terrible it is hard to keep going (which is why I spend much of my gaming doing other things). I love the program, but the curve is immense (and I play War in The Pacific...) This seems to be mostly due to SA. I have read books on combat flying for years (Clostermann, Shaw, et al, ad nauseum) and in theory know the theory. But the blasted hat switches and padlocks throw me completely. Lose all awareness of where I am, where the other guy is etc. 20 secs later, I am toast. Seeing the world thru a monitor is not helpful...but with only a hat switch as your friend? Is Track IR a real gamechanger, or am I doomed forever?

horseback
10-10-2004, 10:22 AM
When playing the game at its full difficulty settings, some people find TrackIR2/3 essential. Some other individuals don't. I bought the original TrackIR and just never got the hang of it, and I'm not sure that I want to cough up another $100+ to see if version 3 is sufficiently better to justify the risk.

I could never get used to the disorientation of the padlock settings, so I don't use'em. What I do use is the 'Look Up' key/button setting with my 'hat'. Using 'Look Up' at the same time as a hat direction raises my line of sight by 45 degrees, and allows me to see everything visible from the cockpit. All you have to do is assign the 'Look Up' command to a button or key that is easily pressed at the same time you're hitting the hat switch.

If you have a HOTAS setup, it should be fairly easy for you to find settings that you can get used to. Hope this helps.

cheers

horseback

dieg777
10-10-2004, 10:43 AM
I also found it hard to track bandits with the traditional views but Newview made a huge difference. This is a program that allows you to mimic TrackIR using your hat. It is user configerable for sensitivity and after using it I couldnt go back. There are other similar programs, mouse-to-view is one and I forget the other.
Newview is available at
http://www.sh.zp.ua/il2/il2.html
give it a try and see how you get on -it is free

F16_Neo
10-10-2004, 10:49 AM
The way you look around in your cockpit certainly affect you SA. Padlock is no good because
A: The view "snaps" to the target so fast that you can loose the sense of where your plane is pointing, thus loosing your SA.
B: Not many online servers have it enabled.

SA Top Three (the way I see it)
1. Track-IR - Takes some time (2 weeks http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ) to be comfortable with. Then you can't live without it.
2. Mouse in left hand - Sounds awkward if your not a leftie, but worked for me for 2 years. (You might want to increase its sensitivity a notch.)
3. POV-hat/Padlock combo - sucks once you got used to anything of the above.

I would suggest that you try leftmousing before investing in a TIR setup if $ is a concern.

GvSAP_Dart
10-10-2004, 11:02 AM
Do you fly with the cockpit on or off?

I found the sim unflyable with it off.

madsarmy
10-10-2004, 11:09 AM
I'm still using the original TIR & I would not fly again without it & FB is the only game I play now.
Once you get used to it you will think the same.

JG52Uther
10-10-2004, 11:22 AM
I use TiR 2,and now can't fly without it!It won't make you an 'uber' pilot but will increase your SA.This sim takes a lot of time to really get in to and if you dont fly a lot you will find it very hard.This is the only game i play now.

F19_Olli72
10-10-2004, 11:38 AM
What the original poster didnt say is how long he/she has been playing FB. I still have the same hatswitch setup as i had a year ago. Sure TIR might be nice and all but i wouldnt say its essential. Im used to the hatswitch and i dont have any real problems tracking a bandit. All it takes is a good setup with keycombos to change views. Ok so on the tracks it looks like im a monkey with epilepsy but to me its natural http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

jamesdietz
10-10-2004, 12:51 PM
I had Track IR2 & it had a bug or two dealing with background ambient light ( esp. sunlight) but TrackIR3 is simply great& if you fly this game it does make all the difference ( & Ive had New View too & its not bad..) Trust me - Pony up the money! Carrier landings will be tough but Track IR3 will make them more of a probability!

Howie A
10-10-2004, 03:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by horseback:
I could never get used to the disorientation of the padlock settings, so I don't use'em. What I _do_ use is the 'Look Up' key/button setting with my 'hat'. Using 'Look Up' at the same time as a hat direction raises my line of sight by 45 degrees, and allows me to see _everything_ visible from the cockpit. All you have to do is assign the 'Look Up' command to a button or key that is easily pressed at the same time you're hitting the hat switch.

cheers

horseback <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've been using only the hatswitch since FB came out and I'm lousy. My coordination with the mouse is too awkward, your suggestion looks like it might do it untill i can get the money for tir3. Thanks...

T_O_A_D
10-10-2004, 04:06 PM
I can not get myself to fly any other sim that does not support TrackIR. It is an immersion increaser. Depending on your skill before hand it can and may increase your odds of being a better dogfighter. If your aim sucks it sucks Track IR will not fix that. But it will make your SA almost instinctive. It's not exactly like sitting in the real pit but dang close given our limited view and restriction of a PC monitor. Read my link in my Sognature. there are a couple of tracks.

99th Obsidian
10-10-2004, 07:22 PM
YES. Track IR is essential to get the most out of IL2:FB. I flew IL2 & FB without Track IR up until about a year ago. During that time I used the mouse, padlock, snap views and externals to try to maintain tally on bandits. I usually flew with the cockpit off to see better. Problem was that I'd get disoriented cause I couldn't see my plane and end up eating bullets or dirt or both. The saying "Lose sight, lose the fight" is very true. Track IR puts your head in the game, literally. It took be a couple of weeks to get my Track IR2 configured but now I won't fly without it. Its better to spend $100 on a TIR than to push your FPS from 25 to 30 with more RAM or a faster CPU or GFX card. The best part of the TIR experience is flying cockpit ON. Now I get to enjoy the detailed pits and I'm able to gauge the position of bandits in relation to my plane. You can quickly glance between your instruments/terrain and target just like real pilots do. Since TIR increases SA significantly and since SA=Save @ss (yours) then I'd say TIR is essential.

JG7_Rall
10-10-2004, 09:59 PM
It helps but it wont turn you into an ace.

ZG77_Lignite
10-10-2004, 10:21 PM
Just another point of view (looks like just about every other angle is covered above):

I find that my situational awareness is slightly decreased due to my TrackIR2, as compared with my previous 'mouselook' setup. However the increased feeling of immersion more (much more) than makes up for any decrease in online performance. I won't fly another sim without it, not because it makes me better, but because it makes it more fun. Looking forward to many new games to support TrackIR, from shooters to drivers to flyers http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Fliegeroffizier
10-10-2004, 11:45 PM
Using Newview, allowing teh tophat to shift my view in all/most directions, made FB a totally new Flight Simulation...I thought it was fantastic.

Then, I went on to TIR2, thanks to a friend's strong recommendation AND his passing his TIR2 along to me when he upgraded to TIR3(Thanks Jim)...
TIR is absolutely essential to ANY flight Sim!!!! You simply "look around" as you would in real life! Nothing compares to TIR for realism and Situational Awareness! I am talking about flying "In-Cockpit" of course...If you go "No-cockpit" "wonder-woman-view", you will get completely lost in the 'world'!

I think that it would be impossible for anyone to go back to any other panning or tophat emulation or mouse or even NewView once they have tried TIR(TIR2 or 3).

Just my humble opinion.

F19_Orheim
10-11-2004, 12:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fliegeroffizier:
...NewView once they have tried TIR(TIR2 or 3).

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

TIR "1" works great for me...

karost
10-11-2004, 12:43 AM
I using Newview for over a years playing a full switch or full real.

but TrackIR is more advantage if you have one and you have to spend some time get used to it.

Newview is free but TrackIR is not http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

S!

WTE_Galway
10-11-2004, 01:43 AM
i find Tir beneficial in terms of knowing where I am in relation to the ground and pretty good for tracking bogies once you have them spotted but two things it does NOT help with --

- locating the bogie in the first place or spotting them agin if you loose sight of them
- tracking multiple bogies at once

Tir is good but its not the "magical" solution some people make out

The-Good-Guy
10-11-2004, 02:13 AM
BUY IT.

You'll never look back (so to speak).

Tully__
10-11-2004, 06:25 AM
It's not essential but it's a hugely simplifies the traditional view control problem.

A point that should be made is that some people have a great deal of trouble adapting to it, while others are at home with it in only a few minutes.

It's also important to have a profile that allows some deadband in the straight ahead view, otherwise shooting can be a real challenge http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

Extreme_One
10-11-2004, 06:41 AM
I was hooked in a matter of minutes. I have TrackIR1 and would love to upgrade...

I wouldn't fly without it so IMHO it is essential.
It's main benefit is in the added immersion but I honestly believe I'm fly better with it too.

I tried using a hat-switch the other day on my mates rig and I was all over the place!

Bearcat99
10-11-2004, 06:44 AM
Not so much TIR is essential IMO but a good viewing system is absolutely essential particularly if you are in the pit. My definition of a good viewing system is one that will allow you to lookbehind you to the left and to the right in a smooth motion. I find that the mouse button on an X45 is an Excellent system as well and I still use it when my TIR goes south at the wrong time.. I just turn it off and deal with it later but use the mouse pan.

roybaty
10-11-2004, 07:34 AM
Wel I myself got TIR2 over a year ago, I can't fly without it now. It took a solid two weeks before I was comfortable with it, but when you get used to it it helps alot.

I've also had HOTAS setups for the last 4 years, and mapped the views to a hat switch, and it works okay, BUT there are many other things that hat switch can be doing. After I got TIR I finally had a convenient place for my trims, yep you guess it the HAT switch, which is also where modern planes put the trim controls.

The things is you have to use the technology for a while before liking/getting used to it. When I first got a joystick waaaaay back about 7 years ago, after flying with a keyboard I needed weeks to get used to it, now I'd never go back.

LStarosta
10-11-2004, 08:27 AM
TIR is not only essential, but you will not only never be a good pilot without it, but your life will forever feel empty without the warmth and presence of your TIR's four eyeballs staring at you constantly.

TgD Thunderbolt56
10-11-2004, 12:11 PM
Not essential, but a dang good product that will make the whole flightsim experience better.

TB

SeaFireLIV
10-11-2004, 12:35 PM
I wouldn`t say essential. But essential if you want the most IMMERSIVE experience of flying and fighting in an aircraft.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/Sigeaf.jpg

Hartford688
10-11-2004, 01:03 PM
Thanks to everyone for the many replies. I'll try again with some of the free options, and otherwise...Christmas looms (I get special dispensation to spend on games once a year!) ...TIR and PC upgrade...

El Turo
10-11-2004, 03:09 PM
For what it's worth.. my take:

Tried the free web-cam tracker option and was very dissatisfied with the quality of response in terms of tracking my "dot", bad background noise and an incomplete range of travel. So, I went back to my hat-switch views that I've always used.

A few months later, I was given a TIR3 to try out by a friend to see if I wanted to buy it and I've been VERY impressed with the enhanced mode. The little metallic dots stick very easily to the bill of a baseball hat and track beautifully, even in a sunlit room. It has taken several weeks of use to get completely used to it (had a bit of motion sickness in the beginning and disorientation). The center deadzone and smoothness options were the biggest single things I had to mess with to feel comfortable with my setup.

Now? I really do enjoy it and have left my hatswitches behind. When I played a different game that I hadn't configured for TIR yet, I found myself slightly turning my head when I wanted to use my views, which was a good sign that I had been converted, I think!

The only lingering problem I have still is with gunnery, but so far, I've been going back and forth between disabling/centering the sensor when I'm going for a shot and sometimes trying to keep it active while I line up. I may just introduce a little bit more deadband in the center so that it actually becomes 100% fixed while I have my head centered.

Definately worth the hundred bucks or so!

Best,

~T.

BinaryFalcon
10-11-2004, 05:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I bought the original TrackIR and just never got the hang of it, and I'm not sure that I want to cough up another $100+ to see if version 3 is sufficiently better to justify the risk. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was in the same position. I had the TIR1 and never quite got used to it, so I never used it much. Then I decided to finally give the TIR3Pro a try and it is far better. I wouldn't want to go without it now.

There's really no comparison between the 3pro and the original unit.

LStarosta
10-11-2004, 05:58 PM
Turo:

I had the same problem as you as far as deadband and enabling and disabling TIR during shooting/landing. My best advice, keep yourself from disabling it as much as possible, and it will come to you. I now keep my head perfectly still almost involuntarily when engaging machine guns and cannons. Personally, if I were you, I'd turn off deadband and use a smooth TIR profile. You'll get used to it very easily, and you will find yourself no longer disabling TIR to keep your view still.

Jumoschwanz
10-11-2004, 10:05 PM
Hey Hartford,

I use a hatswitch on a MS precision 2 stick, and I do great. It just takes a bit of practice and the right programming of the buttons on the stick.

I tried track IR and never liked it. I suggest that you learn to fly the sim with what came in the box, plus a good stick. If you can find a Microsoft precision 2 somewhere get it, it is the best.

It will take lots or practice but it will eventually click and be second nature. Lay this foundation and then try out the gadgets. I am betting that if you become proficient with the hat switch you will find you do not need anything else. The padlock that is included in the game is a fine tool for turning your virtual head too. Learn to use padlock secondly, as not every server has it enabled.

Also try and stick with cockpit-on servers, as seeing the orientation of the cockpit interior in relation to the enemy and the ground helps you keep your bearings. No cockpit does not give you many clues as to what your plane is doing.

S!

Jumoschwanz

BigDukeSixx
10-12-2004, 12:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
- locating the bogie in the first place or spotting them agin if you loose sight of them
- tracking multiple bogies at once

Tir is good but its not the "magical" solution some people make out <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Both are pathetic crutches that are unrealistic and unecessary for a TIR user with half a brain.

F19_Orheim
10-12-2004, 01:07 AM
For me, who never did get the hang of the left hand on the mouse, TIR <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">IS</span> essential... But I definately can understand that "mousies" who get a TIR can't see any Magic in it. One in my Squad is so good with his left hand that after getting TIR he left the device alone because he saw no benefit with it, rather the opposite. I guess he live by the rule "if it aint broken why fix it"http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif@Aga

Now a LOT of people using the mouse solution, is as good or better than I am regarding SA. It's all about preferences and wallet.

Immersionwise TIR is unbeatable. I said it before and I say it again. Get a TIR before HOTAS setup if you want something "new" in your gamer's life.

Jumoschwanz
10-12-2004, 10:23 AM
The odd thing about track IR is this: What you have to see when you are flying the sim is on your computer monitor right? To change views with track IR, you have to turn your head away from the monitor while simultaneously moving your eyes to keep them on the monitor you are trying to look at. This does not mirror anything in real-life I know of, except for a shy/nuerotic person that has trouble making eye contact. When I want to look at anything I would rather be able to keep my head pointed at it.
Also the track IR often needs re-centering, often when it is used the most in a hot dogfight when you move your head a lot. This gives you one more thing to do during a dogfight, and if youi are too involved you end up with your head turned ninety degrees from the monitor to hold your view where you want it. This must look pretty silly to any passersby.

I am 100% sure I can dogfight with anyone online with my hatswitch setup. I don't use a mouse, as it does not make sense to me to have your hands anywhere but on the stick when you are in a combat.

I have one hand on the stick and the other on the stick's base working the throttle and base buttons.

I never have to use the keyboard or mouse during flight at all except for minor adjustments for engine manegment or takeoff and landing. This is a huge advantage for me in combat as everything I want to do I can do without a thought, and with no wasted motion fumbling around with keyboard or mouse.

It did take some months to get it down really well. But I can see my improvement continue even after flying the sim almost three years.
When you get really good at the sim, you don't have to look around as much anyway. You know where to look for enemy planes, and in a hot one on one dogfight you know where the enemy's craft will be next by it's attitude and direction of travel in relation to yours at any moment. I can spot an enemy trying to bounce me, move so he will miss, then change right to the view where he will be after his failed pass almost everytime. Same in a scissoring and looping dogfight, i know where the enemy will be on his next scissor or loop. This all comes with the experience of many online dogfights. And it is far more valuable than any gadgets that claim to make things easier. No matter what gadgets you have, if you don't learn what the heck is really going on online you eill be eaten alive. Even those who have been flying this sim since it came out will go on a full real dogfight server and end up in flames regularly no matter what their setup. S!

Jumoschwanz

TgD Thunderbolt56
10-12-2004, 10:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jumoschwanz:
I am 100% sure I can dogfight with anyone online with my hatswitch setup. Jumoschwanz <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


http://greatergreen.com/il2/stats/sortiedetails.php?id=1097380058&playerid=1079


LOL http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

El Turo
10-12-2004, 10:50 AM
Jumo,

No offense bud, but it's fairly obvious you have little (if any) experience with TIR, because you should never have your head turned more than maybe 40-45 degrees of center and you don't need to recenter your view with enhanced mode because it automatically remembers your center. It isn't just mouselook where you DO have to re-center constantly.

Hat switches are fine, but the TIR3pro I've been using has been wonderful and a great improvement in fidelity and simulation over the built in clunk of the hatswitch.

I'm a convert!

Best,

~T.

JG54_Arnie
10-12-2004, 11:48 AM
Ah, I can see sense in people saying its necessary or at least very helpfull, but I wont have the money for any track IR version, so I do with the mouse. I used to use the hatswitch, but I found it too slow if you seriously want to keep an eye on the contact on your six.
I use the hatswitch for flaps and prop pitch now, which saves a lot of moving the hands to the keyboard.
As it is now, I can fight as good as anyone with track IR, be sure. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Fliegeroffizier
10-12-2004, 01:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by El Turo:
Jumo,

No offense bud, but it's fairly obvious you have little (if any) experience with TIR, because you should never have your head turned more than maybe 40-45 degrees of center and you don't need to recenter your view with enhanced mode because it automatically remembers your center. It isn't just mouselook where you DO have to re-center constantly.

...
~T. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree...I have to say thatJumo's account of TIR is erroneous, at best, and certainly misleading; hard to believe he has ever used it, not for more than five minutes anyway, and that would have to have been while using a TIR setup/profile that was wrong. As noted, TIR2 has the automatic center-remembering feature...perhaps it wasn't in the original TIR which Might be the one Jumo experimented with.

Most importantly, with regard to Head Turning: my setup is such that I NEVER have to turn my headmore than, I would estimate, 10 Degrees MAX, for example to the Right,in order to see out to the 3 or even 4 O'clock position...It is NOT peripheral vision at all. There is also a nifty little body-language move which I use that helps this work even better: one can simply shift the shoulders/head laterally an inch or so to the right and the result for the same 10 Degree of head Turn will now easily show you the view back to your 5 O'clock position...Very LITTLE Head/Eye movement required. I think of this as if, in Real Life, a pilot would have to physically Lean to one side a bit in order to look over his shoulder towards his 5 or 6 O'Clock.

It sounds a LOT more difficult than it is...As noted throughout this thread, TIR(I have TIR2) Does take a period of time to "Learn"/"Adjust"...both in terms of creating the Right Profile/Settings and to control/use one's body/head correctly. Once you've mastered it, it is second nature and superbly realistic in its effects.

IMHO

Jumoschwanz
10-12-2004, 02:15 PM
The track IR I have is not the latest track IR3.
If you set the track IR I have so that it is sensitive enough that you only have to move your head a little for it to sweep a useful field of view then it is too sensitive. I like be able to move around and fidfit in the heat of battle, not sit like a statue. That is just me. Try track IR maybe it will be your bag. I just do not need it.

And what a bull$hit link for the greatergreen mission by Thunderbolt56.
Is he dumb enough to actually think that means anything?
Of course I have flown missions and not been successful. I have had bad days like that and many good ones when I was the high scorer on the server. Who has not? Why don't you post some of the links where your track IR a$$ was bounced and shot down before you got off a shot? What a dumba$$ reply.
And I am not afraid to put it to the test either. Anyone who wants to go one on one just let me know some night in HL. There is a big difference between that and getting the bounce on someone in a cockpit-on server or just shooting them off someone else's tail. S!

Jumoschwanz

Anyone who wants my track IR, I will mail it to them for ten bucks shipping and handling, how is that? e-mail me at frankandsense@hotmail.com

LStarosta
10-12-2004, 02:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jumoschwanz:
The track IR I have is not the latest track IR3.
If you set the track IR I have so that it is sensitive enough that you only have to move your head a little for it to sweep a useful field of view then it is too sensitive. I like be able to move around and fidfit in the heat of battle, not sit like a statue. That is just me. Try track IR maybe it will be your bag. I just do not need it.

And what a bull$hit link for the greatergreen mission by Thunderbolt56. Of course I have flown missions and not been successful. I have had bad days like that and many good ones when I was the high scorer on the server. Who has not? Why don't you post some of the links where your track IR a$$ was bounced and shot down before you got off a shot? What a dumba$$ reply. S!

Jumoschwanz <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


You tried a TIR and said you prefer to fly without it? I think you're lying. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

F19_Orheim
10-12-2004, 02:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jumoschwanz:
...And what a bull$hit link for the greatergreen mission by Thunderbolt56.
Is he dumb enough to actually think that means anything?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


hrmmm buddy. can you take a joke?

El Turo
10-12-2004, 05:03 PM
Testy testy!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif


Jumo, it does take at least a week or two of near constant use to get used to the TIR sensitivity and become naturally sync'd up with your brain and the tracking unit so that it happens naturally instead of having to struggle and think about what you want it to do.

Much like the difference between when you are learning to drive a manual transmission and are thinking.. clutch.. shift.. clutch/gas.. and then eventually one day you find that you're just DOING it without thinking about it as you do it.

Same idea.

Again, not to offend.. but it doesn't seem as though you have the temperment or patience to get used to the process. It's a shame, because it is really quite wonderful (at least the TIR2 and TIR3 I've monkeyed with).

Best,

~T.

TgD Thunderbolt56
10-12-2004, 08:01 PM
Lighten up bro. I LIKE flying with you and against you. Just a little light-hearted humor.

Hell yes I've been jumped plenty of times. Anybody who spends any amount of time online and flies the servers with the better pilots and tougher settings is going to have good days and bad. I jumped on Warclouds the other day and got deathkicked in 5 minutes after being stupid enough to respawn on a "hot" field...repeatedly.


Whatever. I flew for a long time without TrackIR and was plenty successful. I also said it's certainly not mandatory for success. I like it though and admit it was a b!tch for me to get used to, but I did.

Bottom line: If you have the cash, time and desire, give it a try. Odds are you'll like it. If you don't have the cash, time or desire then don't try it. It shouldn't be the deciding factor in enjoying this game.

TB

It was a pretty good advertisement for our stats page though...dontcha think? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Jumoschwanz
10-12-2004, 08:10 PM
I tried the original track IR, which I have, and track IR2 is just a driver upgrade, which I downloaded and tried too.

Sorry Thunderbolt, I missed the "LOL" at the end of your post. I apologize.

And seriously, if anyone wants my track IR for the ten bucks shipping, especially the one that started this thread who should have first dibs?, let me know if it would help. I really do not want to mess with it and am content with my current setup.S!

Jumoschwanz

F0_Dark_P
10-12-2004, 09:43 PM
a thought from me, you that dont like the track IR, what about a track ball?, some one that have tested that?

-HH-Quazi
10-12-2004, 11:20 PM
Well, I tried TIR3 Pro not too long ago. I kept getting a bit nauseous and quizzy in the stomach and dizzy headed. It just seemed so real, without the gravity of course. If one could take the time to get used to it, it would be awesome. I just can't handle feeling sick while trying to fly. I guess I would really suc as a fighter pilot for sure. Eh, I can live with that. I'll just keep using the FBView Plus. But, if you have the cash, give it a shot. It does have the potential of making a better pilot out of you I think.

Tomislav
10-12-2004, 11:40 PM
I just got my TrackIR3 Pro today. My initial observations just confirm what others are saying:

1) It will take time to get used to. After just a few hours, it is already getting more 'natural' for me to just turn my head than go for a hatswitch, but it will take a few days of play, I imagine.

2) It is fantastic! Situation Awareness was always my weakpoint, and even at this early stage, my SA has improved markedly.

3) Spend some time calibrating it! There are some good profiles over at Naturalpoint, but tweak them for you.

Now to build that cockpit I always wanted... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

GAU-8
10-13-2004, 01:18 AM
ive had the 3 PRO a little over a month or so now. and roughly the same time, i got the CH rudder pedals...talk about ROUGH SEAS using both, i wanted to puke..(and immediately getting up to walk around to get a break, i noticed i would slightly turn my head in the direction i wanted to go!!..that was interesting.

stock setting in absolute mode, is very very fast. you will want to change it. i used smoothing at first, and kept lessoning it bit by bit, now do not use smoothing..
(it feels like a "soft" hatswitch..if that makes sence)

it wont make you aim better, or fly better per se, but it will "open up the sky" for you in a looking environment. i have recieved compliments tho because i "stick" to the enemy A/C much better now in very close quarters

BinaryFalcon
10-13-2004, 09:47 AM
Just as a couple of examples:

P80 vs AI 262 (45.1MB .wmv) (http://s93008310.onlinehome.us/video/p80vs262.wmv)

and

Yak vs 110, 190 and 110 piloted by real people on a scripted server. (62.5MB .wmv) (http://s93008310.onlinehome.us/video/yak.wmv)

They're large files, but also high quality (640x480) and a few minutes long each. Both are shown exactly as they happened in real time, with the TIR 3 Pro providing the only view control.

The first video (P80 vs 262) was done as an initial test of the TIR 3 Pro. The second video was my second or third time using it, and maybe only my fourth time flying the Yak (very limited planeset, it was that or the IL-2 for the red side on that mission).

The only real editing I did to the videos was to drop in the background music, otherwise they're untouched.

If the view shifting seems a little jumpy in spots in the second video, it's not due to the TIR itself, I was just glancing that quickly and then returning to center.

Prior to getting the TIR 3 Pro I used the hatswitch for views and never felt like it was much of a problem. With the TIR 3 Pro I feel like I'm no longer "head down" all of the time.

The original TIR never quite did enough for me, but the 3 Pro is really where it's at. I don't think I'd call it essential, but it's right up there with a good HOTAS as something that can significantly improve your experience.

WTE_Galway
10-13-2004, 05:47 PM
the two big improvements for me going from TIR-1 to TIR-3pro were firstly overall smoother tracking and less hastle with calibrating and secondly vastly better performance in daylight or brightly lit rooms

JohnnyRook
10-14-2004, 07:29 AM
You guys made me curious, and now I wander if I should go for the TrackIR3 or the pro? differmce is 25 euro, but will I notice the difference?

Thanx!

Johnny Rook

ArjenKuifje
10-14-2004, 03:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG7_Rall:
It helps but it wont turn you into an ace. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This hits the spot...

I do not use TrackIr. (I do not think it'll help me, as I'm only looking at a 19" monitor.) Things like that will only really help if you've got 'surrond view'. I find F6 key is very usefull... okay, I'm not on full real and I'm only flying offline..
Try to keep track of'em. 'Situational aweraness' seems to be the they. But hey, I'm sitting on a chair.. looking at a computer monitor... at home... Oh, I'm flying. Oh, wait, press P, I need a cigarette, okay, press P to continue... another sip of beer...

But, as I do not have TIR, I cannot judge. I do have rudder pedals and I think they are great, as the give essentail control. Could not do without them. Hey, maybe this also goes for TIR?

I do not know.
Well, I do know it's not neccesary to have fun!
So, just keep having fun!

El Turo
10-14-2004, 04:33 PM
Size of your monitor has nothing to do with it, hombre. It's just a very neat way to add a layer of fidelity and control to your flight simulation (yes, just like rudder pedals).

It won't magically make you a better pilot, but it does give you some tools that you wouldn't have otherwise and really does become intuitive and fun after getting used to it.

I started off with the cam2pan freeware that used a webcam and really didn't like it at all, but the TIR3 I'm using fixed all my gripes with the first one I had tried out (primarily, non-centering issues, losing tracking and inability to differentiate between my tracking "dot" and background noise).

TIR3 is nails.