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View Full Version : 109K4 possible overheat reason!



XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 06:30 PM
One possible reason for the overheat:

IL2FB 1.11

In looking at the cockpit layout of the 109 K-4,

there are 2 temp gauges on right side.
1: Temeraturanzeiger fuer Kuehlstoff
(cooling temp).Upper gauge.....

2: Temeraturanzeiger fuer Schmierstoff
(Oil temp).Lower gauge.....

Ok just jump in your K-4 and take-off with rad. closed do a normal climb out auto or manual prop control 110% with MW50, as you climb the lower temp gauge starts to rise indicating it`s getting hotter.

When it gets to the top you will get the overheat warning. ( in short order).

Now look at the upper temp gauge and it will be around half.

It looks like to me that the overheat is now based of oil temp not water and openning your rad. won`t do anything.

Or maybe there is FOD stuck in the oil cooling vent thats under the engine cowl.

Or Oleg is going to say that the C/P layout from http://www.bf109.com/frameset.html web site has a bug in it, also data from the ref. book War Planes of the 3rd Reich is incorrect.

Next question: if you are sitting with engine at idle and you turn the MW50 on/off while watching the manifold pressure (ata) gauge it will jump from 0.92 approx (off) to 1.92 approx (on).

I have flight time in turbo/super charged aircraft none had a MW50 system, but my understanding of the MW50 system is that injects water/methanol into the engine for boost it shouldn`t change the manifold (ata) pressure if engine is at IDLE. Yes there is a supercharger on the engine but I also thought that
it was auto. And again that shouldn`t change the (ata) pressure at IDLE.

MW50 system ref. original 1939 "Flugmotorenkunde".


Now flame away!!!!!!!! LOL

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 06:30 PM
One possible reason for the overheat:

IL2FB 1.11

In looking at the cockpit layout of the 109 K-4,

there are 2 temp gauges on right side.
1: Temeraturanzeiger fuer Kuehlstoff
(cooling temp).Upper gauge.....

2: Temeraturanzeiger fuer Schmierstoff
(Oil temp).Lower gauge.....

Ok just jump in your K-4 and take-off with rad. closed do a normal climb out auto or manual prop control 110% with MW50, as you climb the lower temp gauge starts to rise indicating it`s getting hotter.

When it gets to the top you will get the overheat warning. ( in short order).

Now look at the upper temp gauge and it will be around half.

It looks like to me that the overheat is now based of oil temp not water and openning your rad. won`t do anything.

Or maybe there is FOD stuck in the oil cooling vent thats under the engine cowl.

Or Oleg is going to say that the C/P layout from http://www.bf109.com/frameset.html web site has a bug in it, also data from the ref. book War Planes of the 3rd Reich is incorrect.

Next question: if you are sitting with engine at idle and you turn the MW50 on/off while watching the manifold pressure (ata) gauge it will jump from 0.92 approx (off) to 1.92 approx (on).

I have flight time in turbo/super charged aircraft none had a MW50 system, but my understanding of the MW50 system is that injects water/methanol into the engine for boost it shouldn`t change the manifold (ata) pressure if engine is at IDLE. Yes there is a supercharger on the engine but I also thought that
it was auto. And again that shouldn`t change the (ata) pressure at IDLE.

MW50 system ref. original 1939 "Flugmotorenkunde".


Now flame away!!!!!!!! LOL

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 08:23 PM
I tried the overheat, both with radiator open and closed. I don't know the specifics of oil and coolant temp, but opening the radiator delays engine breakdown by about 1 minute at 110% power MW50, so it does have some effect.

The problem is that, even with radiator fully open, the engine will break down 6:40 after engaging MW50/110% from cruise.

Here is full test results if u didn't see them



Overheat test from cruise. Conditions: online2summer, 12:00, 100% fuel, 1000m alt.

100% throttle/Radiator closed

Attained 528km/h. Engine did not overheat.

105% throttle MW50/Radiator fully open

Attained 512km/h. Engine did not overheat.

105% throttle MW50/Radiator closed

Attained 576km/h. Engine broke down at 5:50.

110% throttle MW50/Radiator fully open

Attained 540km/h. Engine broke down at 6:40.

110% throttle MW50/Radiator closed

Attained 599km/h. Engine broke down at 5:14.



Conclusion:

At 105% throttle, radiator open, the engine will not overheat. However, you are actually going 14 km/h slower than the baseline 100% throttle, so its irrelevant.

With the radiator closed, the engine breaks down in little over 5 minutes.

At 110% throttle, the radiator will make it last 6:40, but you only get a paltry 540 km/h out of it. With the radiator closed, you get the correct 599km/h top speed, but the engine breaks down in little over 5 minutes.

So in no case was the MW50 time even close to the oft repeated "10 minutes continuous WEP with 5 minute breaks in between". Even with the radiator fully open, and with lots of air going in the radiator, the engine will last no more than 6:40 and even then, you are 60km/h below the rated MW50 topspeed.

One note about the test. The test was done in a straight line at high speed, which is not consistant with actual real life usage of MW50. In actual combat, at low speeds, in a turn or climb, the overheat times would be much shorter. That means that rather than 5 minutes to breakdown, it would only take 3 or 4 minutes to break down under actual combat conditions.

In any context, it is obvious that the overheating of the engine is severely excessive in FB, not only by a small amount, but by a factor of 2 or more.

http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb06894.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb57471.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb11726.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb75733.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb80477.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb64472.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb59442.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb80347.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb73057.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb48642.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb24962.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb72600.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb72327.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb10373.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb70750.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 10:25 PM
Oleg told me K4 never existed and as modeled we should be thankful...

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 11:08 PM
Copy that on the overheat testing I got the same thing.

A little to quick on the overheat.

It looks like it might just be a gauge mistake or the data they have has the water temp gauge as the lower 1.

Hard to say what the real deal is.......

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 01:59 AM
I posted aboput this some time ago, among many other radiator problems, and sent bug reports. The initial auto setting bug was the only one of those I sent that got fixed that I know of.

Nest time you do your test go to external view and watch the radiator flaps under the wings and how they operate.

Now look at that thing under the nose with the flap in back. That is the oil cooler, and the flap never opens, no matter the oil temp or radiator setting. Maybe just a 3D model problem, but it sure doesn't seem like it.

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 03:53 PM
Fillmore wrote:
- I posted aboput this some time ago, among many other
- radiator problems, and sent bug reports. The
- initial auto setting bug was the only one of those I
- sent that got fixed that I know of.
-
-
- Nest time you do your test go to external view and
- watch the radiator flaps under the wings and how
- they operate.
-
- Now look at that thing under the nose with the flap
- in back. That is the oil cooler, and the flap never
- opens, no matter the oil temp or radiator setting.
- Maybe just a 3D model problem, but it sure doesn't
- seem like it.
-

I rember you speaking about this in the past... the problem still exzists


also this is off topic but the german guns need to be revamped as well heres a small exzample

yak3 and other vvs can shoot you from over 1.0 distance with the lil white mgs same with la7 & his 20mm.....

at the same time no german guns can hit from that far without a pure miracle..... also the 108 can deliver 2 hits from under.30 and vvs just keep on flying no problem also there is some wierd delay when you pull the trigger for the 108s and the mgs in the 109's it dosent do it all the time but about 50% of the time........



<center> http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_109_1063229517.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 03:56 PM
we aren't even started about how the oil spills onto the window shield and all the cable cuts of this plane as soon as it is looked at wrong.

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 05:48 PM
In games that have complex engine off, the k4 can't outclimb an la7 at any altitude!

In a game with complex engine man turned off, seemed like the k4 had a ceiling of around 7000m.

In that same game I took an la7 well over 9000m.

No matter what altitude advantage you have over la7 it can always climb to you and even higher.

In games that have complex engine management ON, you are still screwed no matter what altitude you start at. At 6000m, if there is a la7 at same alititude or within 1000m you are screwed. Eventually the overheat will allow the la7 to get more energy than you.

Very ridiculous. Outclimbing is not an option anymore. You either have an altitude advantage to begin with and kill quickly. Or you spend the whole time diving around at 800kmh all the time to keep la7's and yaks off your 6.

I see nothing close to 10min mw50 use. This is a joke.