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View Full Version : No Oleg, I haven`t Forgotten. Escape Whiner returns! An explanation pls.



XyZspineZyX
10-20-2003, 08:15 AM
I find it hard to believe that everyone seems satisfied with the implausibilty of Instant Capture behind enemies if you bail or crashland. Am I the only one who finds this ridiculous? Perhaps a lot of people aren`t bothered cos they play on the net and not that much effort is required to get back to a fight...

But when you`ve flown off line (with `No instant Mission success` off for realism) for an hour, survive the mission only to fail cos you bailed 1 milimetre from that dotted blue line it`s incredibly annoying.

Oleg is it not pure logic to have that chance to escape? At least a 10-15 percent chance? Let me re-outline this.


************************************************** ***


Process:

1. Crashland/bail in enemy area.

2. In 3D part of sim `Player Captured` not displayed. Player hits escape button.

3. Sim calculates whether player captured or not. Say 20% chance. Of course if you want to be really clever increase/decrease ratio by how close to border the player is and/or how near he is to enemy facilities and vehicles.

4. In brief (which prob would be amended by Starshoy) give conclusion: Player Escaped/ Player captured MIA.


************************************************** **


Simple. Yes? Now a poor pilot`s entire mission has a chance.

So why do I get Ian Boys telling me I need to see Starshoy and Starshoy telling me I need to see Oleg.

Oleg I appeal DIRECTLY to you. Please incorporate this most simple plan to the sim. It will probably need Starshoy, but it needs YOU FIRST.

I love this sim, but it`s outrageous that a simple matter of escaping is not included. CFS3 has it. EAW has it. BOB should have it for British pilots (but not for German pilots who land in England).

If you really want me to I`ll provide accounts of many heroic escapes of pilots on the Eastern Front in WWII.

I WILL NOT GIVE THIS UP, OLEG. (Until I`m banned I guess). /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif


"Tis better to work towards an Impossible Good, rather than a Possible Evil."

SeaFireLIV.
(Spitfire & Escape Whiner Member).


Message Edited on 10/20/0307:20AM by SeaFireLIV

XyZspineZyX
10-20-2003, 08:15 AM
I find it hard to believe that everyone seems satisfied with the implausibilty of Instant Capture behind enemies if you bail or crashland. Am I the only one who finds this ridiculous? Perhaps a lot of people aren`t bothered cos they play on the net and not that much effort is required to get back to a fight...

But when you`ve flown off line (with `No instant Mission success` off for realism) for an hour, survive the mission only to fail cos you bailed 1 milimetre from that dotted blue line it`s incredibly annoying.

Oleg is it not pure logic to have that chance to escape? At least a 10-15 percent chance? Let me re-outline this.


************************************************** ***


Process:

1. Crashland/bail in enemy area.

2. In 3D part of sim `Player Captured` not displayed. Player hits escape button.

3. Sim calculates whether player captured or not. Say 20% chance. Of course if you want to be really clever increase/decrease ratio by how close to border the player is and/or how near he is to enemy facilities and vehicles.

4. In brief (which prob would be amended by Starshoy) give conclusion: Player Escaped/ Player captured MIA.


************************************************** **


Simple. Yes? Now a poor pilot`s entire mission has a chance.

So why do I get Ian Boys telling me I need to see Starshoy and Starshoy telling me I need to see Oleg.

Oleg I appeal DIRECTLY to you. Please incorporate this most simple plan to the sim. It will probably need Starshoy, but it needs YOU FIRST.

I love this sim, but it`s outrageous that a simple matter of escaping is not included. CFS3 has it. EAW has it. BOB should have it for British pilots (but not for German pilots who land in England).

If you really want me to I`ll provide accounts of many heroic escapes of pilots on the Eastern Front in WWII.

I WILL NOT GIVE THIS UP, OLEG. (Until I`m banned I guess). /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif


"Tis better to work towards an Impossible Good, rather than a Possible Evil."

SeaFireLIV.
(Spitfire & Escape Whiner Member).


Message Edited on 10/20/0307:20AM by SeaFireLIV

XyZspineZyX
10-20-2003, 08:24 AM
I noriced that too. And i agree with you that the pilot should have some sort of a change to escape, but it should prob should be calculated by how long way it is to home territory from crash site.

XyZspineZyX
10-20-2003, 08:31 AM
Well, you know how your pilot runs then lay down after crash landing or parachuting, and evaporates into the FB mist? Well why stop? They should let pilot run and run to nearest friendly airfield, and follow roads and bridges like the tanks do. If there are any enemy tanks or artilerry (/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif ) they can blow the pilot away. Enemy aircraft can strafe the dude too, except in forests. If you make it back to airfield, you are SAFE, or at least across friendly lines.

If a bridge is blown, too bad!

XyZspineZyX
10-20-2003, 08:36 AM
That would be very good, but hard to make to a patch perhaps.

XyZspineZyX
10-20-2003, 03:38 PM
I second that motion! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

- - - - - - - - - - - - -
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.

XyZspineZyX
10-20-2003, 04:34 PM
dude should be able to swim /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-20-2003, 06:37 PM
I cannot see it being difficult to accomplish. Ok, so i`m not a progammer, but all it would need would be a bit of code on the 3D side to tie in with Starshoy`s Campaign. It would need liason between starshoy and Oleg.

I remember Oleg saying something similar when preparing to release patch 1.11 - the tieing in of the campaign to the 3D part of the sim itself. It`s not something JUST for Starshoy to do, even i can see that.

But once Oleg agrees to do an escape (say 10-20 % chance depending on situation), it should be easy to install. I am certain of it. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif Then Starshoy finishes off with the Campaign brief etc.

"Tis better to work towards an Impossible Good, rather than a Possible Evil."

SeaFireLIV.
(Spitfire & Escape Whiner Member).

XyZspineZyX
10-21-2003, 01:44 AM
I agree that this should be implemented. It will give more incentive to fly a damaged plane as long as possible, in order to increase the chance of escaping.

GATO_LOCO

XyZspineZyX
10-21-2003, 08:46 AM
bump

I sent previosuly similar suggestion.
My proposed way for calculation of "evading captivity" was slightly different.

cheers

Jan

XyZspineZyX
10-21-2003, 03:53 PM
yes, in principle a good feature but does it make any realistic difference to current dynamic campaigns?

IIRC if you get captured you carry on anyway.

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XyZspineZyX
10-21-2003, 08:27 PM
wouldn't there be enemy troops, convoys, aircraft, tanks, etc. roaming all around the enemy territory? it is in control of the enemy right? and the frontlines would probably be pretty active, with at least a few skirmishes going on every once in a while. i doubt the germans are just going to let a couple pilots walk right by

XyZspineZyX
10-21-2003, 09:04 PM
Timmothias wrote:
- wouldn't there be enemy troops, convoys, aircraft,
- tanks, etc. roaming all around the enemy territory?
- it is in control of the enemy right? and the
- frontlines would probably be pretty active, with at
- least a few skirmishes going on every once in a
- while. i doubt the germans are just going to let a
- couple pilots walk right by
-

But not every meter of the front is guarded, and forests are fair to run into.
But and if you bail wounded, could you die on the way home?




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XyZspineZyX
10-21-2003, 09:59 PM
you'd be surprised how difficult it is to evade capture if your enemy has an idea where you might be.

But isn't this whole thing academic since the dynamic campaign tells you that you've been captured and either lets you carry on or makes you refly depending on your game settings?





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She turned me into a newt, but I got better.

XyZspineZyX
10-22-2003, 03:04 AM
bazzaah2 wrote:
- you'd be surprised how difficult it is to evade
- capture if your enemy has an idea where you might
- be.
-
- But isn't this whole thing academic since the
- dynamic campaign tells you that you've been captured
- and either lets you carry on or makes you refly
- depending on your game settings?
-
This is a very, very common misconception with FB I`ve discovered... This should really be a STICKY...

Let me explain...

In FB there are various difficulty modes right? This is just before starting a proper off-line campaign. The one I`m concerned with is `NO INSTANT MISSION SUCCESS`.

Ok, if this is clicked to ON, you MUST COMPLETE the mission succesfully if not, you will have to RESTART the same mission over and over forever. Even if you have a wonderful mission killing everything and live. It won`t matter if you bail in friendly areas, enemy areas or on Mars, or crashland. If you do NOT complete your PRIMARY MISSION, You fail, you MUST REDO mission.
This mode I have no problem with as I do not use it since I find it unrealistic. Its the mode below I`m concerned with...


With `NO INSTANT MISSION SUCCESS` OFF.

You fly the mission. If you suddenly decided it`s too hard and return home safely, or bail over friendly areas or crashland in friendly places, WITHOUT completing the set mission you WILL be able to CONTINUE your campaign. The war WILL continue. You simply carry onto the next days mission and suffer the consequences of not completing the mission. But only if you live... see below:


If you die in this mode or crash/bail into enemy areas you will be CAPTURED and will NOT be allowed to continue the Campaign, you MUST RESTART the current mission.
So with `Instant Mission Success` off the player cannot continue if he dies or bails or crashs in enemy lands.



/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

My point is simple. In this mode (which is far more realistic), when a guy crashlands in enemy territory or parachutes out close to friendly lines there should be a built in escape chance as with every other flight sim I`ve flown e,g Pacific Air War, European Air War, CFS3.

A simple 5/ 10/20 % chance to escape depending if near enemy concentrations or not. Obviously most of the time the pilot would not make it due to injury, capture etc, but that would already be factored into the percentile chance. Yes? There you go, bazzaah2.

Yes, bazzaah2, it`s always difficult to escape the enemy when you`ve bailed in enemy lands, but isn`t it everywhere and some pilots escape? Why have other sims incorporated this automatically, yet not FB?

I have a couple of books detailing pilot escapes from enemy areas in WWII Russian front. It`s not impossible, its not that hard to escape, it just depends on the circumstances in which the pilot bailed or crashed.

Sorry it`s so long and convoluted, but so many FB simmers don`t seem to understand the `NO INSTANT MISSION SUCCESS` mode.

This is such a simple oversight by Mr. Maddox it`s amazing, but I guess it will take monumental whining from me to get it implemented- or I get busted. One or the other! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

"Tis better to work towards an Impossible Good, rather than a Possible Evil."

SeaFireLIV.
(Spitfire & Escape Whiner Member).



Message Edited on 10/22/0302:22AM by SeaFireLIV

XyZspineZyX
10-22-2003, 10:13 AM
Maybe this extreme example will help.

I flew nice mission in custom mode with Bf 109 F-2 in Smolensk area as a leader of fighter formation. It was an escort mission. I managed to lead my fighter pilots succesfully in order to avoid flak and protect the bombers. So most of my fighter pilots got away OK as did the bombers. I also sent down one I-16. While departing from target area I took AAA hit in the engine. It started to smoke and windshield was covered with oil. I was at cca 2000 meters and aprox. 15 - 20 km from front line.

Finally I managed to make belly landing with engine already in very bad shape. I landed in what I thought to be friendly territory.
Unfortunately I was just about 100 meters inside of hostile territory and I was captured!

This is exactly situation where I would like to have AI chance to get back to friendly territory.

It was a nice mission, my pilots got back safely. If "AI chance" would tell me "you were captured anway" ... OK. I would start another campaign as I do every time if I am killed or captured. But it would be just great if I would get back to my squadron within several days.

Many pilots did it on Eastern front. For instance Carganico from II./JG 5 did it twice during summer 1942.
Heinz B¤r walked back to fiendly territory for several days, Otto Kottel as well (in heavy frost!). Also Erich Hartmann returned back. He was even captured and managed to run away!!

AI Chance for getting back PLEASE !!!!!!!!!!!!!

XyZspineZyX
10-22-2003, 10:24 AM
ok that makes sense; obviously I misunderstood your posts. all for that; would make it much more immersive.



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