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blankenship
07-18-2006, 10:31 AM
Found this on the BOB WOV site. Just illustrates how lacking the sound modeling is in PF. This has got to be fixed in upcoming SOW/BOB.

http://www.flightlevel350.com/Aircraft_Messerschmitt_Bf...tion_Video-5194.html (http://www.flightlevel350.com/Aircraft_Messerschmitt_Bf_109-Airline_Private_Aviation_Video-5194.html)

Texas LongHorn
07-18-2006, 07:38 PM
That footage is OUTRAGOUS! Did you notice the ground handling on the 109 with its close spaced gear? I once had a retired Lufwaffe pilot tell me the 109 series lost as many AC to ground loops, etc, as they did to enemy aircraft <ggg.> The engine is no doubt a work of art though. All the best, LongHorn

VW-IceFire
07-18-2006, 09:33 PM
Beautiful work.

Having seen a real 109 with a Diamler Benz engine in it flying alongside a Spitfire IX that the game indeed is lacking in sounding like the real thing.

We know nothing about what BoB's sound engine will be like. I hope that it will sound more like the real thing.

GMwrench
07-19-2006, 07:50 PM
SWEET!!! You know I remember Janes WW2 fighters having great sounds like the Mustang & 109/190... Might have to re-install it again! Back in my Warbirds days, I made a ton of sounds for all of the planes, but I don't think it would work in IL2... I'l have to see

GM

Metabaron2005
07-20-2006, 01:28 PM
This is a video I made with realistic engine sounds.

http://www.france-simulation.com/download.php?op=mydown&did=636

Hope that BOB will sound as great as that !

Other videos http://www.france-simulation.com/index.php?op=newindex&catid=2

triad773
07-20-2006, 01:45 PM
VERY COOL! Reminds me of how often I am taken aback by some of the sounds the 109 makes (or not) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Yeah let's hope that sound won't be one of the lesser points of SOW. If they can sample sounds like they do in the game GT Legends, that'd be great! In that game if you rev a Shelby GT, it's enough to get your blood going.

~S~

Metabaron2005
07-20-2006, 02:10 PM
Oleg didn't understand that a realistic sound is as much immersive as great textures for a cheaper work time ... Hope he understood that before making bob.

LW_lcarp
07-20-2006, 06:11 PM
Propaganda
Everyone knows that all V12s sound like a turbo charged lawn mower engine and Radials sound like weed eaters

slappedsilly
07-20-2006, 07:03 PM
Excellent video Metabaron. Good sound does this some a lot of good. Battle of Britain 2 Wings of Victory just released the 2.04 patch and it has much better sound than il2. BoB2 was a crashy mess up until now, but so far it seems playable. Its good for something different since our genre has gone to top secrete mode.

XyZspineZyX
07-20-2006, 08:17 PM
The first landing in that vid had some sweet side slipping.

And I do agree about the sounds in this game. The sounds in MSCFS sound better than this game...coooome ooon.

MrMojok
07-21-2006, 03:47 PM
skunk, where is that sig quote from? Not the Jack Handy one, the second one.

Beirut
07-22-2006, 03:43 AM
One of the great things about the CFS series and Janes WWII Fighters was the ability to DL excellent engine sounds.

I remember playing CFS1 back arounf 1998 and there were Spitfire and 109 sound files availble that would knock your socks off. Odd that IL2 doesn't have good sound all these years later.

luke97
07-23-2006, 11:02 AM
And Mr Maddox want us to believe that his "midi" sounds are as good as the real thing, and its only a matter of buying a better pair of speakers. Amazing...

Also, I readed somewhere that BoB will use the same sound system (maybe improved) as FB. No recorded sounds from the real thing...:-(

BOA_Allmenroder
07-23-2006, 11:34 AM
Forget the sound. Anyone notice the distinct smoke trail from the DB engine?

Try to find that in the game.

XyZspineZyX
07-24-2006, 08:49 PM
Originally posted by MrMojok:
skunk, where is that sig quote from? Not the Jack Handy one, the second one.

Hot Shots! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

NonWonderDog
07-25-2006, 12:28 AM
Originally posted by luke97:
And Mr Maddox want us to believe that his "midi" sounds are as good as the real thing, and its only a matter of buying a better pair of speakers. Amazing...

Also, I readed somewhere that BoB will use the same sound system (maybe improved) as FB. No recorded sounds from the real thing...:-(

Sound card, mostly. IL2 does a fair bit of sound rendering in real time, and a good sound card can render with a lot more accuracy.

Supposedly. I don't really know, since I don't have money to buy a good sound card. But even with the (surprisingly good) onboard sound on my nForce2 motherboard, I do like the dynamic attributes of the engine sounds. Recorded sounds are annoyingly repetitive when your engine is damaged.


A few years back, there was a guy on a car sim forum (Racer, although it's mostly defunct now) that was working on a fully dynamic engine sound generator. It took as inputs the number of cylinders, their configuration, their bore and stroke, the number of valves, exhaust configuration, etc. and generated engine sounds in real time with no samples whatsoever. Some of the sounds it generated were simply amazing. The problem was that it took lots of resources and tended to be a bit scratchy.

My point is, don't discount generated sounds off-hand. With enough sound processing power, they can sound nearly as good as pre-recorded sounds, without being tied down to just those conditions recorded. BOB's sound engine will not necessarily sound bad just because it doesn't have samples for every different engine.

flyinmick
07-25-2006, 12:38 AM
Yup. Nothing sounds as good as the ol' DB

Lowenherz
07-27-2006, 08:13 AM
Beautiful sounds, Metabaron. Coming from the world of Grand Prix Legends (vintage racing sim, 1998), I find it astonishing that the sounds can't be over-ridden by user-defined ones - they are the worst thing about this excellent sim.

stubby
07-27-2006, 09:17 AM
Originally posted by NonWonderDog:
My point is, don't discount generated sounds off-hand. With enough sound processing power, they can sound nearly as good as pre-recorded sounds...

I would go out on a limb and say that there's a finite number of sounds one could expect from a WWII prop plane based on circumstances. I would rather have a limited number of organic sound fx (ie ones that actually sound like the real thing because they are recordings from the real thing) than something artificial or synthesized that sounds like the Galaga game I played back in the 80s. An example is the Tamiya RC King Tiger Tank. The tech heads determined that no amount of fancy studio work could ever replace the sounds of a real Tiger diesel in action. So they went to England and recorded the actual sounds of a Tiger in action. Folks can try to defend IL2 sound engine but it's lame compared pre-recorded sounds available in other games. Like a Stradivarius, it's often copied but never replicated.

Buster_Dee
07-27-2006, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by GMwrench:
SWEET!!! You know I remember Janes WW2 fighters having great sounds like the Mustang & 109/190... Might have to re-install it again! Back in my Warbirds days, I made a ton of sounds for all of the planes, but I don't think it would work in IL2... I'l have to see

GM

By the way, WW2F would not run in multi-play when using DSL (XP may also have been involved, though I don't recall). Someone came up with a fix. I mention this in case you run into the problem. Wish I could recall the site. It's been around for years, with plenty of mods.

Good luck.

Stiletto-
07-27-2006, 08:40 PM
Yes, the original GPL sounds were pretty crappy, I dont think any of them were from real samples of the 67 F1 cars, but over the years people including myself released a plethora of great sounds into the community, and I remember one day after quite a few years I told myslef "Yes, I have real samples for all the cars now" and they were all high quality samples too. Something that this flightsim will never see. If you want to look at the sample vs synthesized formulaic sound and cmopare the two, all you have to do is look over racing simulations past history. As stated, if the sounds are not very good in the game but you have access to the samples, well then you can just make them to your liking. Also, new engine sounds in games have many samples now, the GTR2 demo is similar to the original GTR and probably the best and most believable engines in any game, they are taken from real samples of the actual race cars, as much access as they wanted. It has 3 or 4 different engine sounds for on throttle and 3 or 4 sound for off the throttle multiply this x2 for internal cockpit and external tv cam sounds, along with idle and startup sounds for each car. The GTR2 demo now has different transmison sounds for each car too, and tire squeel and ground noises for each make. Quite impressive to hear I recomend a download just to hear what could be possible with a good sample system. On the synthesized sound front you have things like NetKar Pro and Live for Speed, the sound is very muddy and forgettable in both of them. Not all has looked so dark in terms of synthizied sounds though, as about 5 years ago this little sim called World Sports Cars (that never came to be) was going to use a sythensized sound engine called "Staccato", and the samples were fairly impressive. There was a demo sound program of it, you couldnt edit with more than 3 or 4 settings of what was thought to have hundreds to very the engine down to every last engine spec. I don't know how veried each engine would sound from the next as the game never came out, but the one engine sample would have been very dynamic and convincing in a game. There are both sides of the coin, but I think high quality samples are the easiest to implement and more effective.

NonWonderDog
07-27-2006, 09:28 PM
Staccato uses lots of VERY short (~1/4 second) samples and does lots of fancy dynamic blending on them. It sounds pretty good, and the full sound engine can supposedly generate the sound of pretty much everything under the sun.

It's very convincing because it can react dynamically to ANYTHING you do. Objectively, though, the steady-state sounds aren't as good as full samples.

GTR2 has much better sounding sounds, and it's almost as dynamic; it's probably the best approach. I'm just skeptical that aircraft engine sounds can be broken down the same way.

The problem is this: you can put a car on a dyno and get as many sounds as you need, separate from wind noise. But in a propeller-driven aircraft, the engine note DEPENDS on the relative wind. You just can't separate the engine and wind noises when you're recording samples. That can be worked around, but the transition from power-on to power-off at high speed, say, will never be as natural as with a Staccato-type sound engine.

The added difficulty, of course, is that 95% of the types in FB are no longer flying. Those that are would not allow samples at the extreme engine limits. Nor would they allow us to pull their oil lines out and find out what the engine sounds like as it destroys itself. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

We'd probably only have 3 full sound sets if FB used a GTR2-type sound engine, and the damaged engine sounds would probably be rather less convincing than they are now. I don't really think the current sounds are bad (although the supercharger/gear/gyro/whatever whine in the 109 does give me a headache), so I'm content with the current system and I probably won't complain about the BOB system.

Stiletto-
07-27-2006, 10:13 PM
Yes, you bring up some good points, I also would say that I am not totally dissapointed with the current engine sounds in terms of their dynamic range, but the hugest problem is that there are 2 or 3 different pistion engined sounds, so you have alot of different engines sounding identical. Probably the most accurate sounding engine in the game is the 109, it has that kind of gurgle sound that you can hear from any real sample, but there are British and other countries planes with the exact same sound as the 109s, I think the LA series uses this sample, and thats a radial engine! This is the total downer of the IL-2 engine system. The 109 sounding engine is really popular with alot of different planes as is also one they used for alot of the Russian planes which found its way into the Mustang and Spitfire years later, theres just no way these engines would all sound the same.

NonWonderDog
07-28-2006, 01:05 AM
There I have to agree. That is a problem.

The solution, of course, is to do exactly what Maddox Games is doing now -- expand the engine sound generator. Trying to get perfect samples would only make the problem worse.