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View Full Version : Loadouts for Bf-109 series.



DKoor
01-21-2007, 08:12 AM
Where did that Brain32's thread went?
Many of us felt a need that is worthwhile subject to whine about... http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/modules/Forums/images/smiles/gm_shrug.gif

So here it is again;

<sub>
<hr class="ev_code_hr" />
Bf-109F2
- droptank
- bomb rack with 1xSC250 bomb
- MG151/20 nose cannon

Bf-109F4
- droptank
- bomb rack with 4xSC50 or 1xSC250 bomb
- underwing MG151/20 gondolas

Bf-109G10
- droptank
- 4xSC50 or 1xSC250
- MG151/20 nose cannon

Bf-109G14
- MG151/20 nose cannon

<hr class="ev_code_hr" />
- Correct the turntimes of both the Bf-109G6_EARLY and LATE (Galland hood) please, they are 2 seconds off. Best turn time in game is 23 seconds at 310km/h which is higher than a real G6 took to make a full circle even with gunpods! It should be between 20,5 and 21 seconds.
- Fix for MG151/15 with new round type: high explosive-HE minengeschloss! In game we have armor piercing (AP) round type only!

Please http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
<hr class="ev_code_hr" />
</sub>


Add/correct the stuff on the list, please, I'll update it...

Thanks for the input. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

JG52Karaya-X
01-21-2007, 09:23 AM
<sub>
Bf-109F4
- droptank
- bomb rack with 4xSC50 or 1xSC250 bomb
- underwing gondolas (MG151)

Bf-109G10
- droptank
- 4xSC50 or 1xSC250 or 1xSC500 bomb
- option for MG151/20 Nabenkanone

Bf-109G14
- 1xSC500 bomb loadout
- option for MG151/20 Nabenkanone

Plus correct the turntimes of both the Bf109G6early and late pls, they are 2secs off. Best turntime ingame is 23secs at 310km/h which is higher than a real G6 took to make a full circle even with gunpods! Should be between 20,5 and 21secs.</sub>

Brain32
01-21-2007, 10:45 AM
MG151/20 in the nose for BF109G14 and BF109G10.

RegRag1977
01-21-2007, 12:07 PM
MG151/20 in the nose for BF109G14 and BF109G10.

I'm with http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

+1

269GA-Veltro
01-21-2007, 04:28 PM
Originally posted by JG52Karaya-X:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
<sub>
Bf-109F4
- droptank
- bomb rack with 4xSC50 or 1xSC250 bomb
- underwing gondolas (MG151)

Bf-109G10
- droptank
- 4xSC50 or 1xSC250 or 1xSC500 bomb
- option for MG151/20 Nabenkanone

Bf-109G14
- 1xSC500 bomb loadout
- option for MG151/20 Nabenkanone

Plus correct the turntimes of both the Bf109G6early and late pls, they are 2secs off. Best turntime ingame is 23secs at 310km/h which is higher than a real G6 took to make a full circle even with gunpods! Should be between 20,5 and 21secs.</sub>
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bump!

Snuff_Pidgeon
01-22-2007, 04:17 AM
MG151/20 in the nose for BF109G14 and BF109G10.
[QUOTE]Reply Yes please http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

NSAdonis85
01-22-2007, 02:27 PM
I also agree.

Plus WGr. rockets for all planes that historically carried them (including Me-262's!).

DKoor
01-22-2007, 07:48 PM
Originally posted by NSAdonis85:
I also agree.

Plus WGr. rockets for all planes that historically carried them (including Me-262's!). Yes Adonis (thanks for input) it would be nice if we get Wfr.Gr.21's for 109's... although I don't know exactly what types were fitted with them? I think that G6's were fitted but I'm not really sure. Anyhow it wasn't a popular modification (due to overall decreased maneuverability of the fighter) but still... it was there.
If someone has more info about this, please post, so we can whine about that too. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

JG52Karaya-X
01-23-2007, 01:50 AM
Originally posted by DKoor:
Yes Adonis (thanks for input) it would be nice if we get Wfr.Gr.21's for 109's... although I don't know exactly what types were fitted with them? I think that G6's were fitted but I'm not really sure. Anyhow it wasn't a popular modification (due to overall decreased maneuverability of the fighter) but still... it was there.
If someone has more info about this, please post, so we can whine about that too. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

The WGr.21 could be fitted to any Bf109 starting with the G2 and on the FW190As, Me262, Bf110, etc. The thing with the real WGr.21 rockets is that the tubes could be jettisoned after use so they wouldnt create unnecessary drag and weight! That however is not modelled in FB for some reason (engine limitation!?)

DKoor
01-23-2007, 02:31 AM
About engine limitation I'd say that I would disagree if this matter is persisted to be viewed that way. We have a bunch of other objects that are jettisoned (other than drop tanks).
Ar-234, Me-163.

If they can jettison their ordnance why shouldn't Bf-109/FW-190 be able to jettison Wfr.Gr.21?

anarchy52
01-23-2007, 03:50 AM
Originally posted by DKoor:
About engine limitation I'd say that I would disagree if this matter is persisted to be viewed that way. We have a bunch of other objects that are jettisoned (other than drop tanks).
Ar-234, Me-163.

If they can jettison their ordnance why should Bf-109/FW-190 be able to jettison Wfr.Gr.21?

Don't forget that Me-262 should be able to jetisson bomb racks.

JG52Karaya-X
01-23-2007, 04:58 AM
Originally posted by anarchy52:
Don't forget that Me-262 should be able to jetisson bomb racks.

!?

The A2a Sturmvogel has its bombracks mounted as part of the forward fuselage so I see no way of dropping them!? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Brain32
01-24-2007, 05:38 AM
MG151/20 in the nose for BF109G14 and BF109G10.
BUMP, it doesen't hurt to hope http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
01-24-2007, 07:29 AM
Originally posted by DKoor:
Where did that Brain32's thread went?
Many of us felt a need that is worthwhile subject to whine about... http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/modules/Forums/images/smiles/gm_shrug.gif

So here it is again;

<sub>
Bf-109F4
- droptank
- bomb rack with 4xSC50 or 1xSC250 bomb
- underwing gondolas (MG151)

Bf-109G10
- droptank
- 4xSC50 or 1xSC250 or 1xSC500 bomb
- option for MG151/20 Nabenkanone

Bf-109G14
- 1xSC500 bomb loadout
- option for MG151/20 Nabenkanone

Plus correct the turntimes of both the Bf109G6early and late pls, they are 2secs off. Best turntime ingame is 23secs at 310km/h which is higher than a real G6 took to make a full circle even with gunpods! Should be between 20,5 and 21secs.</sub>


Add/correct the stuff on the list, please, I'll update it...

Thanks for the input. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Bump
Would love to see these options provided

waffen-79
01-25-2007, 12:13 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif+1

I'm in the software developer business, not sims or anything of this caliber; mind you, but if the engine it's well optimized this changes shouldn't be any problem

plz developers, consider this changes

regards

elephant_il2
01-25-2007, 12:40 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

cmirko
01-25-2007, 02:58 AM
friendly bump http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

koivis
01-25-2007, 06:48 PM
Bumpetibump

269GA-Veltro
01-27-2007, 03:38 AM
Bump!

jagdmailer
01-27-2007, 11:15 AM
MG151/20 for G-10 & G-14...loadouts (at least SC50, SC250 & external fuel tank) for the Friedrichs....

This is the humpteen time this has been requested, but do count me in again!!!

Jagd

alert_1
01-30-2007, 04:04 AM
My hope goes only for MG151/20 for G14,G10, other lodout would require graphical changes and they wont happen as the series dev is at the end..

JG53Frankyboy
01-30-2007, 05:00 AM
Originally posted by alert_1:
My hope goes only for MG151/20 for G14,G10, other lodout would require graphical changes and they wont happen as the series dev is at the end..

exactly !
anyway, the community is asking for that since these two planes arrived in game.................

a MG151/20 option for the 109F-2 would also be nice http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Danschnell
01-30-2007, 08:32 AM
would be wonderful if theyd fix the gr21 tubes to be jettisonable. the bf110 with 4 rockets is extremely useful, but i never carry the useful rockets, because i become such an easy target with them

Scen
01-30-2007, 10:42 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

IIJG69_Kartofe
01-30-2007, 04:29 PM
Originally posted by JG52Karaya-X:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
<sub>
Bf-109F4
- droptank
- bomb rack with 4xSC50 or 1xSC250 bomb
- underwing gondolas (MG151)

Bf-109G10
- droptank
- 4xSC50 or 1xSC250 or 1xSC500 bomb
- option for MG151/20 Nabenkanone

Bf-109G14
- 1xSC500 bomb loadout
- option for MG151/20 Nabenkanone

Plus correct the turntimes of both the Bf109G6early and late pls, they are 2secs off. Best turntime ingame is 23secs at 310km/h which is higher than a real G6 took to make a full circle even with gunpods! Should be between 20,5 and 21secs.</sub>
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Baaaaummmppp! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

tomtheyak
01-30-2007, 05:12 PM
+1 to all of the above

Scen
02-02-2007, 10:37 AM
Yet another bump...

JG52Karaya-X
02-04-2007, 03:09 AM
Bada-bumP!

jermin122
02-05-2007, 01:20 AM
Redo BF109 cockpits either! The super big supporters are very annoying. And it will be also appreciated if you enable 6-dof in IL2.

JG52Karaya-X
02-05-2007, 03:09 AM
Originally posted by jermin122:
Redo BF109 cockpits either! The super big supporters are very annoying. And it will be also appreciated if you enable 6-dof in IL2.

Those are unrealistic wishes, there will be no work spent on any new cockpits, 3D models ect. and Oleg already said that 6dof will not be enabled in IL2 because the cockpits werent modelled with that in mind (after all IL2 is over 5 years old) and you would see gaps in the cockpit.

DKoor
03-07-2007, 08:58 AM
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o125/DKoor/smileys/bump.gif

PraetorHonoris
03-07-2007, 07:08 PM
Historically, the German 109G10 were designed for giving the FW190 top fighter cover and engage the P-51. Therefore a MG151/20 was a much better choice and the probably more common than the MK108.
The request for MG151/20 is an old request...

However, it was stated back then that the G10/14 in game are supposed to be Hungarian built 109s, which only had MK108. Consequently MG was unwilling to model the 151/20.

Which is a shame... a 20mm would allow us to take on Mustangs much better than the 30mm. I can only hope Oleg changes his mind.

Please, it's not an unreasonable request, it would not require that much work and you would make us happy http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

269GA-Veltro
03-08-2007, 07:27 AM
Originally posted by PraetorHonoris:
Historically, the German 109G10 were designed for giving the FW190 top fighter cover and engage the P-51. Therefore a MG151/20 was a much better choice and the probably more common than the MK108.
The request for MG151/20 is an old request...

However, it was stated back then that the G10/14 in game are supposed to be Hungarian built 109s, which only had MK108. Consequently MG was unwilling to model the 151/20.

Which is a shame... a 20mm would allow us to take on Mustangs much better than the 30mm. I can only hope Oleg changes his mind.

Please, it's not an unreasonable request, it would not require that much work and you would make us happy http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

You're right i think......

Would be nice have also a G-10 Erla (a wonderfull and very elegant bird) ....but 20mm would be enough.

JG52Karaya-X
03-08-2007, 07:37 AM
Originally posted by 269GA-Veltro:

You're right i think......

Would be nice have also a G-10 Erla (a wonderfull and very elegant bird) ....but 20mm would be enough.

This "we model Hungarian models only because of better production quality" argument is fishy anyway as Oleg said he models all planes after their best available performance figures.

JG54_Lukas
03-08-2007, 10:43 PM
Originally posted by JG52Karaya-X:
This "we model Hungarian models only because of better production quality" argument is fishy anyway as Oleg said he models all planes after their best available performance figures.

annnnnd...the best available performance numbers were from - you guessed it - Hungarian-built G-10s (and G-14s, for that matter). The quality of aircraft production was much better in Hungary, due to the fact they didn't use slave labor.

Vike
03-09-2007, 05:01 AM
Originally posted by 269GA-Veltro:
Would be nice have also a G-10 Erla (a wonderfull and very elegant bird) ....but 20mm would be enough.

What is a G10-Erla? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif
I know the Me109-G10,i know the firm Erla,but i dunno the G10-Erla...

Have you pics? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

@+

269GA-Veltro
03-09-2007, 08:06 AM
http://109lair.hobbyvista.com/articles/g10/g10.htm

Is not so easy find some good pics, but in IL2 we don't have an Erla G-10....i think.

<span class="ev_code_yellow">The Erla-built Me 109 G10</span>
Erla-manufactured G10s are the most misidentified ones, and have been often referred as G10/AS in the past. Firstly, they did not use the fuselage "moon" fairing on the left side as with the previous AS version. Instead, they used a square panel totally integrated in the fuselage. They also used different cowls, covering the nose without the chin bulges found on the K4. The oil cooler was also different, larger and slimmer than the K4 model. It was most probably designed for the H version as well.

The Erla solution for covering the DB605D on the G10 was overall the most elegant one and naturally begs one question : Why were they the only factory doing so, especially when Messerschmitt itself was using "moons and bulges" on the brand new K4? We may never know for sure. However, the planned 109 H was designed to use covers strangely similar to the one used by Erla on the G10. A very possible explanation is that the items and tooling pre-produced for the H version were redirected to the Erla production at the time of the G10 introduction.

Since Erla started the G10 production quite early, the first a/c still used G6 wings with "small" wheels and the Erla canopy with antenna mast. Later, Erla used the same new wing with larger wheels as the other manufacturers.

Italian (ANR) G-10 Erla (ex G-10AS)
http://www.finn.it/regia/immagini/stranieri/me_bf109g10as_silva.jpg

Btw, somebody here could give you more and better info.

Vike
03-09-2007, 08:38 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Wow,i didn't know that at all! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Thanks for the info!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

@+

JG52Karaya-X
03-09-2007, 08:45 AM
Originally posted by JG54_Lukas:
QUOTE]
annnnnd...the best available performance numbers were from - you guessed it - Hungarian-built G-10s (and G-14s, for that matter). The quality of aircraft production was much better in Hungary, due to the fact they didn't use slave labor.

Yea but that IMO still is not a good reason why they shouldnt get a 20mm option, after all not ALL Hungarian G10s and G14s were of the /U4 type.

FritzGryphon
03-09-2007, 01:15 PM
And why no MG213 pods? If it's gonna be 1946 land, they may as well go all the way!

JG52Karaya-X
03-09-2007, 02:14 PM
Because that, in contrast to the aforementioned loadouts, is pure FANTASY, who would need that anyway. Same with the Mk108 gunpods, IIRC there was just a testbed Bf109G6 (got a picture in my aviation folder) and that was it, no serial production or anything but get it into the game rather than giving the late 109s some reasonable stuff to tool with... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

269GA-Veltro
03-11-2007, 10:08 AM
Originally posted by Vike:
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Wow,i didn't know that at all! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Thanks for the info!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

@+

You're wellcome! This Erla bird is one of the more beautifull WW2 fighter! Be sure!

Vike
03-11-2007, 01:07 PM
Indeed Veltro.http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


Originally posted by 269GA-Veltro:

Firstly, they did not use the fuselage "moon" fairing on the left side as with the previous AS version. Instead, they used a square panel totally integrated in the fuselage. They also used different cowls, covering the nose without the chin bulges found on the K4. The oil cooler was also different, larger and slimmer than the K4 model. It was most probably designed for the H version as well.

(...)

However, the planned 109 H was designed to use covers strangely similar to the one used by Erla on the G10. A very possible explanation is that the items and tooling pre-produced for the H version were redirected to the Erla production at the time of the G10 introduction.

This explanation seems relevant to me; http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Here are some drawings of this plane:

Me109-G10 Erla:

http://109lair.hobbyvista.com/articles/g10/g10.ht5.gif

Compared to the standard Me109-G10:

http://109lair.hobbyvista.com/articles/g10/g10.ht8.gif

From this site. (http://109lair.hobbyvista.com/articles/g10/g10.htm)

Btw,i also found another screen of an ANR Me109-G10:

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j32/Vike01/G10C3.jpg

- Here (http://www.messerschmitt-bf109.de/display.php?lang=de&auth=e&name=version_display&fotonummer=1056) -

We can see the "C3" symbol on its fuselage!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif

Location: Malpensa/Milan in February 1945,according to the site! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

I thought this type of fuel was only used above Germany or in the North of Europe for the Me109s implied into the Reichverteidigung. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Hmmmm,i feel i wanna whine for a Me109-G10-Erla-C3 now!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

@+

JG52Karaya-X
03-11-2007, 02:21 PM
Originally posted by Vike:
Hmmmm,i feel i wanna whine for a Me109-G10-Erla-C3 now!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Count me in

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

PS: The Erla built G10 does look very nice and more refined than the "normal" one.

269GA-Veltro
03-12-2007, 07:08 AM
In this book there are severals wonderfull G-10 Erla pics:

http://www.tuttostoria.it/immagini/336DM022f.jpg

G-10 Erla nose is simple <span class="ev_code_yellow">O U T S T A N D I N G</span>....really a superb Gustav! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

tragentsmith
03-12-2007, 11:00 AM
I agree with all posted above. Now, Oleg has to take his responsabilities... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

elephant_il2
03-12-2007, 01:06 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif
So do I !!!

JG54_Lukas
03-13-2007, 01:18 AM
Originally posted by JG52Karaya-X:

Yea but that IMO still is not a good reason why they shouldnt get a 20mm option, after all not ALL Hungarian G10s and G14s were of the /U4 type.

My reply was in response to the fact that the best test data for the G-10 and G-14 does in fact come from the Hungarian-built aircraft. I totally support the request for a 20mm cannon option on both of these models.

269GA-Veltro
03-13-2007, 06:01 AM
Originally posted by Vike:
Indeed Veltro.http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gifBtw,i also found another screen of an ANR Me109-G10:

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j32/Vike01/G10C3.jpg

We can see the "C3" symbol on its fuselage!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif

Location: Malpensa/Milan in February 1945,according to the site! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

I thought this type of fuel was only used above Germany or in the North of Europe for the Me109s implied into the Reichverteidigung. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Hmmmm,i feel i wanna whine for a Me109-G10-Erla-C3 now!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

@+

I'm talking about this problem with Ferdinando d'Amico. As he says, we have not to be surprised about the "G10-C3 problem" in ANR, because a lot of people didn't know nothing also about the standard ANR G-10 (they have also G14, G14-AS and some K4)...but as we can see in the pic, they also flew the C3 version. ANR was a little but wonderfull aviation, with different wonderfull fighters...G10-C3 Erla included! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

BTW, and from this book (there are all the ANR fuel availabilities for month) we can read that ANR had a lot of problems with fuel availability, not only C3.

http://www.aeroplanebooks.com/productcart/pc/catalog/10001514_1653_thumb.gif

Fuel, April 1945.
It is hardly necessary to look any further for an explanation of the Luftwaffe and ANR's limited response to the climax of the campaign, although fuel was just one of their rapidly multiplying problems. The month began with 226 cbm of B4, 125 of C3 and 341 of J2 on hand. C3 hit an all time low of 93 cbm on the 10th*, but a rare delivery on the 14-15th brought it back up to 132. At the prevailing consumption rate, J2 would have held out for about eight months!

*On this date it was noted that 12 tonnes of B4 (this is probably the allocation to Carmen mentioned above) and 100 of C3 were en route to Italy and that the latter was the entire April allocation of this type of fuel.".

<span class="ev_code_yellow">So, be sure, if we could whine for a C3 version.....we can at least ask for a 20mm.</span>

PraetorHonoris
03-14-2007, 12:22 PM
Actually, according to Monogramm Close-Up 7 Gustav, Part 2, the G10's engine was to use C3 fuel of 96 octane as standard. It did surprise me a bit at first, but when looking closer to the pics I found the C3-symbol everytime. The best performance figures are coming from these C3 fueled German engines, not from Hungarian units, imo.

However, please let's be realistic. There won't be another 109 in game. Face it. I can only hope for the 20mm Nabenkanone, which was most common on G10 and G14, even some K4 still had them. Unfortunatly, even that hope is weak... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
MG151/20 Nabenkanone would be so great!

jagdmailer
03-14-2007, 03:16 PM
Interesting information coming to light in the later part of this thread.

BUMP!

JagdMailer

Brain32
03-14-2007, 06:03 PM
C3 G10's are old "news" for some of us http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Heey this will now be a BUMP for mg151/20 cannon in the nose for 109G10/G14 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

kirkncc1701
03-15-2007, 04:11 AM
This thread seems to have turned into a "lets have everything included in the next patch" post.

Loadouts for the 109-F series really suck tho, with no drop tank, i am forced to fly short distances on my leningrad 41 campaign!

Dunno why it wasn't added, i am currently looking at an f4 that has a drop tank attatched!

PFflyer
03-15-2007, 08:11 AM
Right, for a sim that started off being about the eastern front, and continued to be about the eastern front for much of it's life, Oleg should be embarassed to have one of the most historically important aircraft on the eastern front so poorly represented.

There is no GOOD reason for it, and no excuse either.

Sugar has not helped catch the fly over the last six years, so screw it, Oleg might be a good coder and knowledgeable about aeronautics, but he screws up things like this, and much more.

Looking at this and other glaring errors in this sim, on many levels he is not only some kind of *******, but his character comes under scrutiny as well.

Aymar_Mauri
03-15-2007, 08:49 AM
Originally posted by PFflyer:
Right, for a sim that started off being about the eastern front, and continued to be about the eastern front for much of it's life, Oleg should be embarassed to have one of the most historically important aircraft on the eastern front so poorly represented.

There is no GOOD reason for it, and no excuse either.

Sugar has not helped catch the fly over the last six years, so screw it, Oleg might be a good coder and knowledgeable about aeronautics, but he screws up things like this, and much more.

Looking at this and other glaring errors in this sim, on many levels he is not only some kind of *******, but his character comes under scrutiny as well.
Priceless post... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

Danschnell
03-18-2007, 01:24 PM
BUMP

I approve of the original purpose of this post.

NO BUMP

I dissapprove of the digs at Oleg's character. Maybe it was easy to overlook 2 seconds of turn time.

IIJG69Kartofe
03-20-2007, 12:49 PM
<span class="ev_code_RED">B</span>
<span class="ev_code_RED">U</span>
<span class="ev_code_RED">M</span>
<span class="ev_code_RED">P</span>

La7_brook
03-27-2007, 12:25 AM
fix for late mod 109,s BUMP http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

jmazzo
03-28-2007, 08:30 AM
>BUMP<
MG151/20 loadout option for Bf109G-10 and Bf109G-14 is really required and worth a bump by anyone interested in reproducing planes most common versions.
Please consider it for next patch http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

carguy_
03-29-2007, 05:48 PM
Lighten MK108 loadouts for Bf109G6early/Bf109G6late/Bf109G6AS by kg amount of 100.

Vike
03-31-2007, 05:39 AM
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j32/Vike01/up.jpg

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

La7_brook
04-01-2007, 02:56 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

XyZspineZyX
04-03-2007, 08:49 AM
bump

Brain32
04-04-2007, 08:10 AM
BUMPY http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Snuff_Pidgeon
04-04-2007, 11:27 PM
and bump!

JG52Karaya-X
04-05-2007, 02:02 AM
Mit unserem Bump!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

269GA-Veltro
04-05-2007, 04:02 AM
Originally posted by DKoor:
Bf-109F4
- droptank
- bomb rack with 4xSC50 or 1xSC250 bomb
- underwing gondolas (MG151)

Bf-109G10
- droptank
- 4xSC50 or 1xSC250 or 1xSC500 bomb
- option for MG151/20 Nabenkanone

Bf-109G14
- 1xSC500 bomb loadout
- option for MG151/20 Nabenkanone

Bump!

RegRag1977
04-06-2007, 03:51 PM
Another Bump! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

La7_brook
04-08-2007, 08:38 PM
BUMP for FM fixs in late 109,s http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

tragentsmith
04-10-2007, 06:54 AM
I´m in http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

Vike
04-11-2007, 05:57 AM
So,while we are at it,

-With the only one Me109-Late able to use the MG151/20,i.e the mighty G6/AS,how do you use this canon?

Full guns or separately? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Did IRL Me109 pilots shot separately or in full guns mode with the 20mm canon? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

-And by the way,was the MG151/20 supplied with so few tracers IRL,i mean only 1 tracers for something like 5 shells fired,like we have ingame? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Because considering its ROF @ 750 rpm,i think that if the MG151/20 had as much tracers as the russian B-20 canon that equips the La73xB20 and Yak3P with the same ROF,Blue team would have the laser canon since 1941 with the Me109F2/F4! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif (and even before with the Me110-C4,but it isn't flyable http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif)

So,tell us what you think! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

@+

DKoor
04-11-2007, 06:44 AM
I use cannon in combination with MG's. But I don't always use MG's with cannon because for sniping out or dubious shots I tend to use MG's only especially so if I'm low on ammo.

They can hit hard too, in spite of popular belief I shot down decent portion of enemy aircraft with 2x12,7's only.

About tracers I like the way it is currently. Sometimes tracers & smoke obscure my view on target thus ruining my aim. Tracers are only here to help us aim and TBH with all the time I spent with this game I'm not in a bad need for them.

Ratsack
04-11-2007, 07:29 AM
Bump!

For a bomb (SC250) for the F.

For a MG151/20 for the G-14 and G-10.

However, those asking for SC500s really need a spanking. The 109 G could carry one of these only with a modified (i.e., extra) landing gear. This is not modeled in game, and I seriously doubt it was common in any event.

The SC250 should be the normal max bomb load on the fuselage.

cheers,
Ratsack

269GA-Veltro
04-11-2007, 07:41 AM
Originally posted by Ratsack:
Bump!

For a bomb (SC250) for the F.

For a MG151/20 for the G-14 and G-10.

Agree, it would be more than enough.

BuzzardHead
04-12-2007, 12:21 AM
Try this site for all Bf-109 facts.www.messerschmitt-bf109.de

Vike
04-12-2007, 06:10 AM
Originally posted by DKoor:
I use cannon in combination with MG's. But I don't always use MG's with cannon because for sniping out or dubious shots I tend to use MG's only especially so if I'm low on ammo.

They can hit hard too, in spite of popular belief I shot down decent portion of enemy aircraft with 2x12,7's only.

About tracers I like the way it is currently. Sometimes tracers & smoke obscure my view on target thus ruining my aim. Tracers are only here to help us aim and TBH with all the time I spent with this game I'm not in a bad need for them.

Exactly my friend! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Here is a little "demonstration" about my separated use of the guns with the Me109.
I'm in the good G14 version against an Ace Yak3 bot at 1000m.
You'll see why i personally prefer the 30mm over the 20mm.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif Vike@Me109-G14 vs Ace Yak3 (http://vike01.free.fr/images/Vike@Me109-G14%20vs%20Ace%20Yak3.ntrk) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

In full switch mode,naturally... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

But anyway,the 20mm option would be a nice addition,i must agree! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

@+

tigertalon
04-12-2007, 06:35 AM
Very rarely I fire cannon and MGs at the same time. MGs are very usefull for long range sniping with intention to make fleeing enemy panic and turn, while cannon (and cannon only) ensures a kill from close range. On planes with wing mounted cannons (spit, 109E) I usually set the cannon convergence at 120meters and MGs at 200 meters for that purpose).

With ammo that F4 carries, you can down a nice gaggle of single engined planes (save sturmoviks). 200 20mm rounds ain't that few.

I remember once FlyingFinn on UKD2 had ran out of cannon ammo in his F4 and was RTB, when bounced by 2 P39s and 1 P40 (me). He shot us all three down with his only twin 7.9mm in an incredible turning dogfight.

DKoor
04-12-2007, 05:28 PM
Originally posted by Vike:
Here is a little "demonstration" about my separated use of the guns with the Me109. Nice flying too http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif


Originally posted by tigertalon:
I remember once FlyingFinn on UKD2 had ran out of cannon ammo in his F4 and was RTB, when bounced by 2 P39s and 1 P40 (me). He shot us all three down with his only twin 7.9mm in an incredible turning dogfight. You feckers http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif you should've nailed him with that P-40 from above when he goes in turn or prepares for deflection.... 3 vs 1 - unbelievable.

Vike
04-13-2007, 01:35 AM
Originally posted by DKoor:
Nice flying too http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Originally posted by DKoor:
.... 3 vs 1 - unbelievable.

Here I must disagree DKoor:

Some years ago,when i was a beginner,without the Track-IR,i only flew on the excellent UK-Ded1 and UK-Ded2 servers.

At this time,FlyingFinn was (and imagine still is) a real Ace,able to reach precision from 30% up to 50% regularly.
He was even treated of ch*ating or other bad names by some other players. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Actually,he was the first guy i know to fire with the guns separately...Thus giving him those very good hit rates with P39s,P38s and especially with the Me109s,given the very high ROF of the german guns http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

Yes,he is the GUY who influences me to fire the Me109 guns like i do now.
-i.e. the track (http://vike01.free.fr/images/Vike@Me109-G14%20vs%20Ace%20Yak3.ntrk) i posted just above http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
-i.e. the 50% hit rate i managed to reach while destroying a P51-D (http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j32/Vike01/Gluor1.jpg) on Warclouds last week.http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

To conclude,what TigerTalon said doesn't surprise me! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

BTW,
S! FlyingFinn http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

----

Now in order to go back on the subject of this thread:I remember a thread in which someone said the MG151/20 had yellow or orange tracers IRL,instead of the blue tracers we have ingame...So,what is the truth? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

@+

DKoor
04-13-2007, 06:03 AM
I was saying, between the lines, that they screwed it badly when he managed to shot all of them down.
I know it can happen, I also managed to shot down several aircraft in lone vs many fights and have personally observed it several times from above (lone guy taking out all my friendlies who supposed to have an easy time with him), but that tells more about wolfpack (mostly lack of awareness and care combined with greed) than a lone guy... with all due respect to FlyingFinn skills.

XyZspineZyX
04-13-2007, 01:08 PM
bump

jermin122
04-14-2007, 04:26 AM
bump!

DKoor
04-16-2007, 06:59 AM
List updated.


Originally posted by Ratsack:
However, those asking for SC500s really need a spanking. The 109 G could carry one of these only with a modified (i.e., extra) landing gear. This is not modeled in game, and I seriously doubt it was common in any event.

The SC250 should be the normal max bomb load on the fuselage.

cheers,
Ratsack Got some source of info for that?
I'll update the list if you provide some good source of info for that.

JG52Karaya-X
04-16-2007, 09:34 AM
Ratsack is right, the Bf109 could only carry the SC500 if an additional wheel leg under the belly was mounted because there otherwise wasnt enough space between fuselage and ground, anyway this was ejected after takeoff and dropped with a parachute so it didnt hinder the aircraft inflight performance, maybe Oleg and crew just wanted to spare themselves the extra work involved with this!?

However its a bit odd that some Gs & the K have it while other Gustavs dont...

Watch the lower part of the picture

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/Karaya/Bf109G2droptanks.jpg

PS: The Gondolas for the Bf109F4 should be MG151/20s not the /15 and they were also VERY rare (Friedrichs wings werent sturdy enough and needed strenghtening), it wasnt until the Gustav that gondolas came into widespread use.

DKoor
04-16-2007, 10:26 AM
OK fix will be made shortly thanks for your help, K I appreciate it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif
I have few pics of F4 with gondolas, so it's a valid claim.
This sim has seen aircraft that never flew, so I don't see why should we hasitate to ask for a wing cannons even if they are only few 109's fitted with them.

Vike
04-25-2007, 09:42 AM
Originally posted by JG52Karaya-X:
Ratsack is right, the Bf109 could only carry the SC500 if an additional wheel leg under the belly was mounted because there otherwise wasnt enough space between fuselage and ground, anyway this was ejected after takeoff and dropped with a parachute so it didnt hinder the aircraft inflight performance, maybe Oleg and crew just wanted to spare themselves the extra work involved with this!?

Interesting post Karaya! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
This reminds me the tail-wheel doors animation that is badly missing for the Kurfurst.But,nevertheless,there is so much planes in this sim and so much work done about them... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Concerning the MG151/20,IIRC,someone said in this thread that some K4s carried MG151/20? (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/63110913/m/5201055625?r=4061033145#4061033145)

Isn't it a bit strange? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif
Considering the "1 vs 10 up to 60" ratio german pilots encountered at the time when the K4s were introduced...

I think it is obvious that the MG151/20 could be mounted in a Kurfurst nose,but IRL wouldn't it be a little unsufficient against so many targets (and so many BiG targets like B17s) ?

Who have some infos? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

@+

ps:

"End of journey for the Liberator..."

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j32/Vike01/EndOfJourneyForTheLiberator.jpg

So Uber...OMG http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

- Found here (http://www.messerschmitt-bf109.de/web.php?lang=de&auth=e&name=version_display&auswahl_hv=1&auswahl_uv=&bildertyp=farbbild&selectversion=g&versionscategory=9&nextpage=1#bm) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

polak5
04-25-2007, 02:13 PM
Originally posted by Brain32:
MG151/20 in the nose for BF109G14 and BF109G10.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

Brain32
04-26-2007, 03:12 AM
Wow, VERY nice pic Vike, a Croatian BF109G10 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

XyZspineZyX
04-27-2007, 08:03 PM
Bump

Snuff_Pidgeon
04-29-2007, 01:04 AM
Bf-109G10
- droptank
- 4xSC50 or 1xSC250 or 1xSC500 bomb
- option for MG151/20 Nabenkanone

Bf-109G14
- 1xSC500 bomb loadout
- option for MG151/20 Nabenkanone
Bf-109K4
- option for MG151/20 Nabenkanone
bumpity bump bump!!!

tigertalon
04-29-2007, 07:13 AM
Although I suck big time using these, I'd like to see stowpipes (Wfr.Gr. 21 antibomber mortars) also on 109s, not only 190s and 110s.

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s307/TigerTalon/Bf109G-Graf.jpg

DKoor
04-29-2007, 11:04 AM
WoW nice pic TT http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif
That would be cool indeed... but do you know what types were fitted with Wfr.Gr-21's?
Aircraft on picture is probably a regular Bf-109G6.

tigertalon
04-29-2007, 12:14 PM
Upper pic (by Iain Willie) indeed depicts "ordinary" G-6, plane of Major Hermann Graf after a headon with B-17Fs on 6.september 1943 (he got two fortresses on this mission). No clue which other 109 versions actually carried mortars...

JG52Karaya-X
04-30-2007, 09:49 AM
Well any Bf109 starting with the G1/2 really, IL2s problem is that you cannot drop the tubes after you have expended the rockets as opposed to real life (on the Bf109, FW190, Bf110, Me262 and any other plane that carried them), rendering your plane pretty much useless in fighter vs fighter combat

tigertalon
04-30-2007, 12:01 PM
Agreed, but we have them on 190s and 110s...

JG53Frankyboy
04-30-2007, 01:07 PM
the Werfergranaten would need 3D work on the 109 model (as every external weapon loadout needs that) , so its highly unlikely that it will happen.............

the only chance, even if very unlikely too, are the MG151/20 nosecanon options for the G-14/-10

Vike
05-10-2007, 06:23 AM
Originally posted by Brain32:
Wow, VERY nice pic Vike, a Croatian BF109G10 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

You're welcome Brain http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

@+

ps:
And indeed,i take the nickname of Gluor,on WC-WF.Me109 FTW http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

RegRag1977
05-30-2007, 07:56 AM
No, this thread musn't fall on page two! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

Pollack2006
05-30-2007, 10:50 AM
Anyone e-mailed the dev-team about these changes? It will need documentation (especially the adjustment to the G6 flight model).

JG53Frankyboy
05-30-2007, 11:17 AM
Originally posted by Pollack2006:
Anyone e-mailed the dev-team about these changes? It will need documentation (especially the adjustment to the G6 flight model).

the last 5 years? ................. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Pollack2006
05-30-2007, 12:22 PM
Originally posted by JG53Frankyboy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pollack2006:
Anyone e-mailed the dev-team about these changes? It will need documentation (especially the adjustment to the G6 flight model).

the last 5 years? ................. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>-

LOL.....yeah, fair enough.

Vike
06-01-2007, 08:08 AM
Originally posted by JG53Frankyboy:

the last 5 years? ................. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

However,the Me109-F2 has been "tuned" in the last patch,the 4.08m. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

It is now entirely comparable to the F4 and becomes the most maneuverable Me109 of the whole game.Then,the challenge to use its 15mm MG151/15 canon with un-exploding shells is VERY interesting,especially against I-16s or other maneuverable 1941 Red planes. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

So,let's hope will you? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

BTW,in a recent multi-player coop with my squad against another one last week,my Me109-G6*Early* managed an awsome kill against an lonely IL-4:

While BnZooming the twin-engined enemy plane,I kept it in my ReVi gunsight during less one a second while doing an even shorter burst at very close range.
All of a sudden,its left wing broke-off,giving me the victory.
The program MissionLogReader gave me that day,a hit rate of...74,07%,meaning 60 hits for 81 shots! (full-guns mode) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

- MLR Report - (http://fichierzap.free.fr/Dor7.htm)

http://www.simpsonsweb.com/img/news/400.jpg
Wow,I feel good...Tadadadadadada http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

But i still prefer the MK108... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

@+

JG53Frankyboy
06-01-2007, 08:28 AM
Originally posted by Vike:
.....................
So,let's hope will you? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

........................



i fly this game since its early Beta stages - an i had always hope, and this for a lot of things.
some came truth , others not.

269GA-Veltro
06-01-2007, 09:38 AM
Originally posted by JG53Frankyboy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Vike:
.....................
So,let's hope will you? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

........................



i fly this game since its early Beta stages - an i had always hope, and this for a lot of things.
some came truth , others not. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

+1

Classic Luftwaffe's aviation deserves more attention in this game.

I would like have some updated german aircrafts:

- improved lods for Bf-109, Stuka and Ju-88, their lods are simple horrible!

- updated textures for JU-87 and BF-109 cockpits;

- more Bf-109 versions: G4 Trop, G6 Trop, F4 Trop, G-10 Erla, G14 AS....and why not, also G14 Erla.

- and off course some better default skins for Bf-109 and FW-190 (these if i'm not wrong are coming).

Ok, i'm dreaming....... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

Now seriously, 20mm for G-10 and G-14 and 250 Kg bomb for F4 are really the minimun after all this time.

BTW, bump!

DKoor
06-01-2007, 11:21 PM
Originally posted by 269GA-Veltro:
- improved lods for Bf-109, Stuka and Ju-88, their lods are simple horrible! Yes but Spitfires beat them by a large margin. Missing wings - RoFL.


- updated textures for JU-87 and BF-109 cockpits; +1 would be nice.


- more Bf-109 versions: G4 Trop, G6 Trop, F4 Trop, G-10 Erla, G14 AS....and why not, also G14 Erla. I'm in for all... but primary thing for those nose guns, pods and bombs. Personally I'd be very surprised if we get anything new (other than skins).


- and off course some better default skins for Bf-109 and FW-190 (these if i'm not wrong are coming). Yes I sure hope so. They announced it.


Ok, i'm dreaming....... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif Me too.


Now seriously, 20mm for G-10 and G-14 and 250 Kg bomb for F4 are really the minimun after all this time.

BTW, bump! +1

Ratsack
06-02-2007, 12:32 AM
Originally posted by DKoor:
...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Now seriously, 20mm for G-10 and G-14 and 250 Kg bomb for F4 are really the minimun after all this time.

BTW, bump! +1 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
The only sensible requests.

Bump.

Ratsack

Blood_Splat
06-03-2007, 05:46 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/inlove.gif

Snuff_Pidgeon
06-08-2007, 05:26 AM
Bump! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif

arrow80
06-11-2007, 12:49 PM
this just has to be bumped

Vike
06-12-2007, 10:08 AM
Flying 'n dreaming...

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j32/Vike01/Berlin1945/Sans-titre23-bisWallp.jpg

http://media.ubi.com/us/forum_images/gf-glomp.gif <- This new smiley is very cool! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

@+

Flight_boy1990
06-12-2007, 10:43 AM
Originally posted by 269GA-Veltro:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JG53Frankyboy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Vike:
.....................
So,let's hope will you? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

........................



i fly this game since its early Beta stages - an i had always hope, and this for a lot of things.
some came truth , others not. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

+1

Classic Luftwaffe's aviation deserves more attention in this game.

I would like have some updated german aircrafts:

- improved lods for Bf-109, Stuka and Ju-88, their lods are simple horrible!

- updated textures for JU-87 and BF-109 cockpits;

- more Bf-109 versions: G4 Trop, G6 Trop, F4 Trop, G-10 Erla, G14 AS....and why not, also G14 Erla.

- and off course some better default skins for Bf-109 and FW-190 (these if i'm not wrong are coming).

Ok, i'm dreaming....... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

Now seriously, 20mm for G-10 and G-14 and 250 Kg bomb for F4 are really the minimun after all this time.

BTW, bump! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

+1 for all of this stuff!!!!And btw the problem with "/Trop" versions of the planes could be done,if they just add the filter in our "Weapon" section.

Vike
06-27-2007, 04:57 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif * bbBUMPpp * http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Pimpo
07-02-2007, 06:13 PM
BUMBS!

JG4_Helofly
07-03-2007, 03:31 AM
bump for 20mm in G10/G14 and more loadouts

Snuff_Pidgeon
08-02-2007, 12:59 AM
And bump http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

DKoor
08-02-2007, 06:05 PM
Ho ho it's been almost one month since last post err.. bump...... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

RegRag1977
08-08-2007, 02:35 AM
True, mate!

Let's give this thread another BUMP! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

lorenai__
08-08-2007, 06:52 AM
i'd like to have a 109f2 with three mg15 cannons - the elation of sadist. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

La7_brook
08-09-2007, 04:02 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

269GA-Veltro
08-09-2007, 06:16 AM
No 20mm, no party!!!!

Bump!

La7_brook
08-14-2007, 01:56 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

DKoor
08-27-2007, 12:27 AM
20mms in 4.09 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Snuff_Pidgeon
09-17-2007, 12:06 AM
20mm option on all 109s that had that option+tube launcher A.S.A.P http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

JG52Kueken
10-03-2007, 07:06 AM
It would be really cool to have the 20mm nose canon, at least for the G10 and G14 series http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

csThor
10-03-2007, 07:48 AM
As much as I agree on the MG 151/20 I just don't see it happen. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

DKoor
10-03-2007, 05:59 PM
It'll be in, this or that way be sure!

At least when official updates die hackers will continue to.....update the game.

It takes only one 109 lover among them.

20mm FTW.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

csThor
10-03-2007, 09:43 PM
That's exactly what I'm afraid of. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

ColdDawn
10-09-2007, 10:11 PM
He http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif y, does the BF-109 have the capability to over come spitfire and hurricane in a two on one dog fight if the fighter is an Deadly Ace?

Thanks....


Nice Waffen Skins guys, try some Helgs Skins, really awesome for the desert como and just awesome to show!

Cheers

DKoor
10-09-2007, 10:23 PM
Originally posted by ColdDawn:
He http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif y, does the BF-109 have the capability to over come spitfire and hurricane in a two on one dog fight if the fighter is an Deadly Ace? Absolutely.........both offline and online. Hurricane is barely a match for 109E, and no match in any way for 109F.

Vike
10-19-2007, 09:15 PM
Originally posted by DKoor:
Absolutely.........both offline and online. Hurricane is barely a match for 109E, and no match in any way for 109F.

Talking about the Uber Friedrich? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Look at this aircraft,in which we recognize Herr Galland:

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j32/Vike01/Me109FC3GallandPanzer.jpg

It is a Me109-F with the Galland Panzer *and* an engine fed with C3 fuel! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

(Found here (http://www.messerschmitt-bf109.de/display.php?lang=de&auth=e&name=newphotos&fotonummer=5468))

Hmmmm,after the Me109-G10-Erla-C3 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/63110913/m/5201055625?r=3221045045#3221045045),i think i wanna whine for this one too!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

@+

Gitano1979
10-20-2007, 02:10 AM
Galland "panzer" had also wing-mounted 20mm cannons like Emils. I saw a photo once but don't remember the source...

DKoor
10-20-2007, 02:29 PM
Originally posted by Gitano1979:
Galland "panzer" had also wing-mounted 20mm cannons like Emils. I saw a photo once but don't remember the source... http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o125/DKoor/avatar/f2_galland.jpg

luftluuver
10-21-2007, 05:07 AM
Originally posted by Gitano1979:
Galland "panzer" had also wing-mounted 20mm cannons like Emils. I saw a photo once but don't remember the source...
Galland's "panzer' was a 109F. Galland's "panzer' head armor did not appear until the 109G-6.

RegRag1977
10-21-2007, 06:13 AM
As the wise man say: no 20, no party! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif

JG52Karaya-X
10-21-2007, 08:01 AM
Originally posted by Vike:
It is a Me109-F with the Galland Panzer *and* an engine fed with C3 fuel! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

Thats not surprising at all, its probably a Bf109F-2, the early Fs (F-1 and F-2) were still using the DB601N powerplant instead of their originally intended DB601E because the latter was not ready until late spring/early summer of 1941. The 601N needed C3, 100 octane fuel which the Luftwaffe still had plenty of at the time as there were no FWs around yet. BTW, the other Luftwaffe fighter that featured this DB601N plant was the Bf110C4 which received priority for it once the N went in service, even over the Bf109E which had to rely on the ordinary 601A or Aa mostly.


Der Flugzeugmotor DB 601 N wurde aus dem Triebwerk DB 601 A abgeleitet und unterscheidet sich von diesem durch die besseren Leistungen, die durch erhöhte Drehzahl, höhere Verdichtung und durch den Sonderkraftstoff C3 erreicht wurden. Das Triebwerk ging Ende 1939 in die Serienfertigung und wurde hauptsächlich in Kampfflugzeuge vom Typ Dornier Do 215 und Heinkel He 111 eingebaut. Gefertigt wurde die Baureihe DB 601 N-1. Ursprünglich hatte man mit einer Leistungssteigerung auf 1400 PS gerechnet, damit wären jedoch zu weitgreifende Änderungen am Triebwerk selbst notwendig geworden. Triebwerke mit verbessertem Lader wurden in die Bf 109 F eingebaut.

"The aircraft engine DB601N was derived from the DB601A powerplant and differed from it by its superior performance which was achieved through higher rpms, higher compression and the special fuel C3. The powerplant went into serial production by the end of 1939 and was mainly built into bombers of the type Do215 and He111. Originally one had expected a rise in power up to 1400PS, however this would have made several major changes in the engine necessary.

Vike
10-22-2007, 12:40 PM
Yes,it's true Karaya! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I recall also about one Emil,the E7/Z which also had a DB601N engine.

Nevertheless,the glass panzer mounted into a Me109-F is very interesting for the S.A.
That would make the Friedrich even more deadly as it already is! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

@+

JG52Karaya-X
10-22-2007, 12:57 PM
I never heard about an aircraft that was nicknamed "Galland's Panzer", only heard of the armour glass window that was fitted onto the Bf109G6 and later models from late 1943 onwards (see Vike's pic).

The special Bf109F model that Galland flew was dubbed "Bf109F6/U" being based on the Bf109F4 with 2 additional MGFF/Ms in the wings like one was used to from the Emil. One should however not mix this bird up with the normal Bf109F6 which was a photo-reconaissance model with only two cowling MGs installed.

I my book "Die deutschen Jagdfliegerasse 1939-45" there is a kill claim and after action report filed by Galland flying that particular aircraft http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Wepps
10-22-2007, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by JG52Karaya-X:
I never heard about an aircraft that was nicknamed "Galland's Panzer", only heard of the armour glass window that was fitted onto the Bf109G6 and later models from late 1943 onwards (see Vike's pic).

The special Bf109F model that Galland flew was dubbed "Bf109F6/U" being based on the Bf109F4 with 2 additional MGFF/Ms in the wings like one was used to from the Emil. One should however not mix this bird up with the normal Bf109F6 which was a photo-reconaissance model with only two cowling MGs installed.

I my book "Die deutschen Jagdfliegerasse 1939-45" there is a kill claim and after action report filed by Galland flying that particular aircraft http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

You are Ray Toliver?

I've read your books, particularly Fighter Aces of the Luftwaffe and Blonde Knight of Germany.

If you're the author, I'm working on a thesis regarding the reasons for the failure of the Luftwaffe to meet the objectives of Barbarossa, and I sure would like to have a short conversation.


...

JG52Karaya-X
10-22-2007, 02:58 PM
Originally posted by Wepps:
You are Ray Toliver?


Sorry to disappoint you, but, no I'm not him, barely a forum user who likes to fly the Bf109 for what it is http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

@Vike: Correct me if I'm wrong but a Galland Panzer like armour glass plate in the 109F wouldnt have any influence on the out-of-cockpit visibility of the pilot. The Bf109F didnt have the steel plate behind the seat yet that was introduced in the Bf109G series so visibilty wasnt bad to begin with. Only the Galland Panzer in combination(!) with the Erla Hood did bring a significant increase in visibility!

Wildnoob
10-22-2007, 05:00 PM
many people are requesting the MG-151 / 20 cannon for the BF-109 late war versions. but by wath I've read this cannon started to be introduced in the G-6 version, and was not equiped in the early G-6 versions because the weapon was not assembled at production line yet.

the pilots could choose between the MK-108 and the MG-151 ?

I think whe can choose between the MK-108 and the MG-151 in the early versions just for see if whe gonna have an early or late production aircraft.

DustyBarrels77
10-22-2007, 07:25 PM
be fair, list all the essential payloads missing for all countries aircraft. They all been posted about hundreds of times. Just to be fair and a more rounded thread which might get noticed.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

JG53Frankyboy
10-23-2007, 03:50 AM
but the difference between a MG151/20 for the 109G-14 and -10 and HVARs for a P-51D (as example http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ) is, the MG151/20 option would need no 3D work....................

and any further 3D work for the IL2 series is a "no go" for Maddox.

even the programming of this internal Bf109 armament option is highly unlikly !

Vike
10-23-2007, 08:17 AM
Originally posted by JG52Karaya-X:
@Vike: Correct me if I'm wrong but a Galland Panzer like armour glass plate in the 109F wouldnt have any influence on the out-of-cockpit visibility of the pilot. The Bf109F didnt have the steel plate behind the seat yet that was introduced in the Bf109G series so visibilty wasnt bad to begin with. Only the Galland Panzer in combination(!) with the Erla Hood did bring a significant increase in visibility!

True,but i still think that a classic Me109-F canopy + the Galland Panzer would/should provide a slightly better view than the classic Me109-F canopy + classic armor plate.

And indeed,the Erla Haub + the Galland Panzer afford the best compromise to the Me109 regarding drag,speed,visibility and pilot protection. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

@+

ps:
BTW,i'm not sure that the Me109-G "panoramic" armor plate was as obstructing as it is in the game;
Look at this Late Friedrich equipped with a Gustav armor plate:

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j32/Vike01/ot.jpg

I think that if we had 6DOF,we would be able to look at our six by the sides of this plate. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Kurfurst__
11-03-2007, 11:37 AM
Originally posted by JG52Karaya-X:
I never heard about an aircraft that was nicknamed "Galland's Panzer", only heard of the armour glass window that was fitted onto the Bf109G6 and later models from late 1943 onwards (see Vike's pic).

There is photographic evidence that the Galland Panzer in fact fitted to Bf 109G-2/4 by early 1943 (and, of course, Galland`s custom aircraft). By mid 43 it seems to be quite common, but it`s presence with the framed canopy is not as obvious as the later Erla-hood introduced in mid 1943.

The visibility from the original canopy without that big piece of head armor was quite good, actually, at least pilots flying the early variants praise it.

@Wildnoob,

The MG 151/20 was introduced in June 1941 with the 109F-4, though the F-2 appearing a few months earlier already had the MG 151/15 of 15mm caliber; upon pilot`s request, it is documented that it was replaced by the /20 variant (given the two guns could be easily converted from one caliber to another).

The G-something/U4 variants with the 30mm cannon were special subtypes, while the majority of the aircraft of the G-series in 1944 continued to carry the MG 151/20 in the nose (these lack the /U4 suffix). The installation of the 30mm cannon was done in the factory, and could not be changed in the field.

In brief there were normal G-6s, G-6/AS, G-14s, G-10 carrying the 20mm MG 151/20 cannon and the 30mm-armed G-6/U4s, G-6/AS/U4s, G-14/U4s, G-10/U4s.

We only have the G-14/U4 and G-10/U4 in the game, though they are incorrectly designated as G-10 and G-14 (which in real life would be the normal 20mm-armed versions).

RegRag1977
11-03-2007, 02:05 PM
Thanks for info Kurfurst! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

BTW did some K4 had 20mm?

Kurfurst__
11-05-2007, 05:17 PM
On paper - no. The standard type only had one set of armement (1x30+2x13 + 2x20mm gondolas optional).
IIRC the K-2 was to have a 20mm, but it`s production was not materialized. (or rather, was redundant because of the G-10)

There are some speculations about 20mm armed 109Ks due to 'shortages' of weapons etc. Not much of an evidence, or specific for that though, and I`d say it`s just that, speculation. Firstly I cannot see that there were enough MK 108s for G-14/U4s and G-10/U4s often produced in the same factory, but not for 109Ks that is supposed to be *standard* type replacing them. Secondly, the installation of the MK 108 vs MG 151/20 was rather different, it`s a bit more complicated than just swapping the two weapons. The different armament (engine, radio, special equipment etc) would also change the type`s designation as a rule - ie. K-10 was planned to be the one with an MK 103m. And, externally, on most pictures it`s just impossible to tell.

In short, a very probable myth, stemming from the K-2`s carcass... reality produced a few odd hybrids, 109Ks with cannibalised 109G tails, DB 605s covered by all cowlings attached as a quick fix by the ground crew to make the aircraft flyable.. Such 'freaks' existed but where the exception, and not the rule.

La7_brook
11-08-2007, 10:28 AM
<span class="ev_code_RED">bump</span>

RegRag1977
11-09-2007, 02:32 AM
Thanks Kurfurst for all the 109 info! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

LuftWulf190
11-16-2007, 06:29 PM
I still want the 20mm cannon for the G-14 rather then the mellon launcher.

Snuff_Pidgeon
11-18-2007, 08:13 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

RegRag1977
12-15-2007, 05:16 PM
Dear Santa,

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif could you bring some mausers for the G10 and G14 pilots, they have been very kind during the whole year. I think they deserve it...

Thanks in advance http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sleepzzz.gif

Please PM if you need escort while flying over our cities chimneys. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

anarchy52
12-25-2007, 04:49 AM
I wonder why Maddox has refused to give us the MG151/20 option on G10/G14 which is far more common armament configuration.

Sad thing is, it takes just a single line of code. Literally.

arrow80
12-26-2007, 07:23 AM
bump again for Mg 151/20 for G-10 and 14 as a christmas present

Snuff_Pidgeon
12-29-2007, 12:26 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif

RegRag1977
01-04-2008, 08:40 AM
Originally posted by Arrow80:
bump again for Mg 151/20 for G-10 and 14 as a christmas present

As a new year's present:

BUMP for the 151/20 for G14 G10!

anarchy52
01-04-2008, 10:06 AM
considering that it takes *literally* a single line of code to add 20mm option to G14 or G10 and we have been whining for years...

RegRag1977
01-04-2008, 03:06 PM
So you think that it was done on purpose?

anarchy52
01-05-2008, 03:24 AM
Originally posted by RegRag1977:
So you think that it was done on purpose?

How could I know?

What I do know is that the change is trivial to implement and takes less then 10 minutes.

RegRag1977
01-06-2008, 06:28 AM
Less than 10 min http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif. What a pity, i should have whined for that instead of crying for complex FM issues... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Ok, now i really think we won't have the 20ies for G14 and G10...

PS Thanks Anarchy52 for explainations (still find it unbelievable: less than 10 mins to add 20ies for G10 G14... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif)

La7_brook
02-29-2008, 09:45 PM
20mm for g14/10 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

RegRag1977
03-04-2008, 08:52 AM
Still fighting La7_brook? I should too...

20ies for G10 G14! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Snuff_Pidgeon
03-04-2008, 10:11 PM
what do we want? 20mm! when do we want it? NOW! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif(please)

Ratsack
03-04-2008, 10:21 PM
Regarding the F-2 series, I have one question: where is the evidence that the F-2 was retrofitted with the MG151/20?

Regarding the F-4, I have to point out that the production plans called for only about 200 examples to be made that could be converted to carry the under-wing MG151/20 gondolas. Of these 200-odd, it's not clear how many were actually made, and it's even less clear how many were actually converted to carry the gondolas. The type is known to have served with only a couple of Gruppen.

It was by no means a common type. On the contrary, it was a rare bird indeed.

Not that any of this matters.

cheers,
Ratsack

Wtornado_439th
03-05-2008, 02:13 PM
What about the rockets on the Hurricane?

JG53Frankyboy
03-06-2008, 06:14 AM
would need 3D work, so a 100% nogo !

and btw, a list of missing/wanted weapon options for all flyable ingame planes can be very long http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Ratsack
03-06-2008, 10:24 PM
So, what is the source of the belief that the F-2 got the 20 mm MG151?

Just wondering.

cheers,
Ratsack

Snuff_Pidgeon
03-07-2008, 06:11 PM
Originally posted by Ratsack:
So, what is the source of the belief that the F-2 got the 20 mm MG151?

Just wondering.

cheers,
Ratsack So whos belief is it that F2 had MG151????????????Just wondering..

Ratsack
03-07-2008, 09:39 PM
Originally posted by Snuff_Pidgeon:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ratsack:
So, what is the source of the belief that the F-2 got the 20 mm MG151?

Just wondering.

cheers,
Ratsack So whos belief is it that F2 had MG151????????????Just wondering.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Have you read the original post, on the first page? Just wonderin' http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


It asks for the MG151/20 engine gun for the Me 109 F-2, just in case you didn't read it.

What I was asking is, on what basis does the OP believe the F-2 was ever fitted with that gun? Not saying it didn't happen, just asking for a source or some reasoned argument.

cheers,
Ratsack

Snuff_Pidgeon
03-07-2008, 10:36 PM
My apologies http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gifi had a look back to opening of post and your right, maybe it was just wishfull thinking http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Ratsack
03-07-2008, 10:52 PM
No wukken furries.

Ratsack

Vike
03-11-2008, 08:07 PM
Some interesting news here:

I found some infos about an awesome looking aircraft that maybe a Reckon-Me109,like a G8...

Anyway,this machine has ALL the characteristic of a Me109-G6-Early...But with the C3 symbol.

Oblt. Heimo Emmerstorfer's machine:

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j32/Vike01/Me109G6-C31.jpg

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j32/Vike01/Me109G6-C32.jpg

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j32/Vike01/Me109G6-C33.jpg (some data here (http://209.85.135.104/search?q=cache:IyZwuK7pKvcJ:members.aol.com/kaczmarek190/recce109s.html+heimo+emmerstorfer+C3&hl=fr&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=fr))

Wanna have this one to REPLACE the pitiful aircraft impostor that stole the name "G6-Early" in our game http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

@+

anarchy52
03-12-2008, 09:45 AM
Any info on the powerplant/performance figures?

Vike
03-12-2008, 11:38 PM
Originally posted by anarchy52:
Any info on the powerplant/performance figures?

Not at this moment,but i'll search for that http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Codex1971
03-13-2008, 04:01 AM
Originally posted by Ratsack:
So, what is the source of the belief that the F-2 got the 20 mm MG151?

Just wondering.

cheers,
Ratsack

Sorry my scanner is Kaputt, I had to take photos. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

Source: "Messerschmitt BF 109" in action Part 2. Page 9.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a362/CodexAssassin/DSC00047.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a362/CodexAssassin/DSC00048.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a362/CodexAssassin/DSC00050.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a362/CodexAssassin/DSC00049.jpg

tragentsmith
03-13-2008, 05:49 AM
I want that F2 !

Snuff_Pidgeon
03-13-2008, 04:48 PM
Interesting, how did they manage to get the 13mm under such a tiny bulge,when later 109s needed such huge bulges to fit them.

Ratsack
03-15-2008, 06:50 PM
Originally posted by Codex1971:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ratsack:
So, what is the source of the belief that the F-2 got the 20 mm MG151?

Just wondering.

cheers,
Ratsack

Sorry my scanner is Kaputt, I had to take photos. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

Source: "Messerschmitt BF 109" in action Part 2. Page 9.


</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mate, those are two Me 109 Fs that belonged to Galland. One had MGFFM cannon in the wings and otherwise normal F-2 weapons (i.e., 2 x MG17 and 1 x MG151/15). The other had the MG17s replaced with 13 mm heavy machine guns. So, at risk of seeming didactic:

1. these were not standard Me 109 Fs; and
2. neither had the 20 mm Mauser in the engine.

cheers,
Ratsack

Codex1971
03-15-2008, 08:52 PM
Originally posted by Ratsack:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Codex1971:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ratsack:
So, what is the source of the belief that the F-2 got the 20 mm MG151?

Just wondering.

cheers,
Ratsack

Sorry my scanner is Kaputt, I had to take photos. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

Source: "Messerschmitt BF 109" in action Part 2. Page 9.


</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mate, those are two Me 109 Fs that belonged to Galland. One had MGFFM cannon in the wings and otherwise normal F-2 weapons (i.e., 2 x MG17 and 1 x MG151/15). The other had the MG17s replaced with 13 mm heavy machine guns. So, at risk of seeming didactic:

1. these were not standard Me 109 Fs; and
2. neither had the 20 mm Mauser in the engine.

cheers,
Ratsack </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are correct Rat...these weren't standard F-2's but it might explain the misconception by some that the F-2's were fitted with 20mm Mauser. I can't find any reference to say they were ever fitted with 20mm via the engine's centre line as standard, and IMHO they never were. I'd be happy to be proven wrong mind you but I doubt it. Maybe Kurf can shed some more light, my library is limited.

csThor
03-16-2008, 03:11 AM
Certainly NOT a misconception. To change a MG 151/15 into a MG 151/20 you had to exchange the barrel and make a minor modification of the breech. There are various anecdotal combat reports from units which are known to have used the Bf 109 F-2 at that particular time when the pilot talks about the "effect of the 20mm cannon" (i.e. Hauptmann Karl-Heinz Schnell of JG 51 in the summer of 1942). Apparently the exchange of the MG 151/15, which was by no means a complicated affair, happened during regular engine maintenance work.

Kurfurst__
03-16-2008, 04:44 AM
Originally posted by Ratsack:

It asks for the MG151/20 engine gun for the Me 109 F-2, just in case you didn't read it.

What I was asking is, on what basis does the OP believe the F-2 was ever fitted with that gun? Not saying it didn't happen, just asking for a source or some reasoned argument.

cheers,
Ratsack

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e133/Kurfurst/109F2_armament.jpg

Ratsack
03-16-2008, 07:18 AM
Kurfurst,

Where is that from, and what's the context?

Ratsack