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HG1973
11-20-2003, 03:15 PM
I'm curious to know something about the 'Art'. I believe my perception of what it is all about ,might be wrong or even right, but I'm only going on what I know from past Myst games/published novels.

I know that in Uru references have said that the D'ni created their fantastic ages through the Art of Writing. Yet if you read the books or play one of the older games it states that the D'ni wrote books that linked to the unlimited possibilites that exist in the universe. Meaning that these worlds/ages were actually already in existance, but somehow became linked with the D'ni books. So which is right?

HG1973
11-20-2003, 03:15 PM
I'm curious to know something about the 'Art'. I believe my perception of what it is all about ,might be wrong or even right, but I'm only going on what I know from past Myst games/published novels.

I know that in Uru references have said that the D'ni created their fantastic ages through the Art of Writing. Yet if you read the books or play one of the older games it states that the D'ni wrote books that linked to the unlimited possibilites that exist in the universe. Meaning that these worlds/ages were actually already in existance, but somehow became linked with the D'ni books. So which is right?

Cupelix
11-20-2003, 03:50 PM
I've kind of gotten the impression that it was some sort of mixture of both?

One of the stories you come across in over the course of Uru metions a certain king being surprised at an age having inhabitants; it also mentions that ages which appeared to already be inhabited were traditionally supposed to be off limits to the D'ni (if I remember/read it properly).

HG1973
11-20-2003, 04:07 PM
Yeah I saw that journal aswell. That's one of the reasons I started this thread.

So if I use that info along with my past references than I get this?

If the D'ni write a book that links to a age(world) that has animals/people already existing in it that were not written in intentionally, than that age is a physical world that already exsists somewhere and if not than it's an age solely created by the writer.

Makes you wonder if these ages are mini-verses or alternate dimensions or just places in our own universe.

Fascinating stuff. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Dillenger69
11-20-2003, 04:28 PM
I think it boiled down to a matter of belief.
Some believed that the writing created the age.
Some believed that the writing just linked to an existing reality.
I tend to believe that the writing just establishes a link to an exitsting place.

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Neejit
11-20-2003, 04:37 PM
I think this one: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=782108&m=6311041 a thread from the DRC forum, is woth checking out if you want to learn more about the subject. It's a long read, but very interesting.

- Neejit

HG1973
11-20-2003, 05:22 PM
Awesome link Neejit. Thanks http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

m-bailey
11-21-2003, 11:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dillenger69:
I think it boiled down to a matter of belief.
Some believed that the writing created the age.
Some believed that the writing just linked to an existing reality.
I tend to believe that the writing just establishes a link to an exitsting place.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Which is probably why some of the D'ni (those that believed the writing created the age) believed they had more power and control over an age than they really did.

Tanernin
11-21-2003, 11:22 AM
I seem to remember an instructor of young Gehn telling his pupils that the D'ni created their Ages in the Book of Ti'ana. Thus, it would seem that even D'ni thought was divided, at least to some extent.

Moleculor
11-21-2003, 11:40 AM
There are actually stories of people who Wrote an Age, went there, taking a Linking Book back to D'ni with them to leave behind in the Age so that they could actually return.

Upon their return they decided to change something in the Book. Sometimes those people were skilled enough to Write in changes that didn't contradict what was already there, and would usually succeed in making the alterations with no problems of any kind.

But if such people were not excrutiatingly wary of such changes, they could link back to the Age to find that the world they linked to was a different one (that looked almost identical) and their Linking Book (and any other changes they had brought with them) was gone.

maztec
11-21-2003, 01:30 PM
Interesting post.

I subscribe to the theory of outside observation. Once it is observed by an outsider, it truly exists. So if something in an age has never been observed, you find yourself unable to change it without moving to another branch on the tree. But if it has not been observed, it can be created, added, removed, or modified as if it was never there or has always been there. It will not find itself suddenly in the memories of the native peoples -- as that would change your observation of the people themselves and thus it would have been an observed object. Instead it would be something new for them to discover or a curiosity for them to wonder about why something had ceased to exist.

Observation is the key.

J_ohn
11-21-2003, 04:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tanernin:
I seem to remember an instructor of young Gehn telling his pupils that the D'ni created their Ages in the Book of Ti'ana. Thus, it would seem that even D'ni thought was divided, at least to some extent.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hmmm, as far as I can see, there is no such implication. The instructor simply highlights the importance of the special ink in bridging the two Ages. In any case, the view of Books forming Links to pre-extant worlds seems to have been the mainstream belief of the D'ni.

That doesn't make it foolproof, of course, but I think that that aspect explains the Art better than the aspect of Books really creating other universes.

SBS http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Reeleshan
11-24-2003, 09:44 AM
Interesting views(is it spelled views?) of the case. I think when you write the age, then you create an age. Not link to an age. But it sounds difficult to write an age. Do the writers just put thousands of words into the book( beautiful,pinetrees,islands,blue water, whales, two suns, many white rocks etc.) then say a magical word, and the age is created, or do they give a detailed discription of the age?(there is a tree, with thirty-five apples, and the little sea in the forest is ten miles long)
Have any ideas?

Debido_I
11-24-2003, 12:26 PM
In answer to the original question, let me put forth the opinions of Atrus, Catherine, and Yeesha. Each of them believed, after much thought, exploration, and ponderance that they did not indeed "create" the ages represented in their books. They believed they were writing a link, or bridge if you will, from one seperate world, possibly even reality, to another. Which is why that while they could take pride in writing such links to other ages, they could not take ownership of creating the worlds themselves. Thus the inhabitants of other ages were to be treated as equals, not as lesser beings than the D'ni.

Alahmnat
11-24-2003, 12:43 PM
According to Gehn (and this is hardly a reliable source, but he's usually the only one we've got http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif), as soon as you put pen to paper and begin to Write a description, the Book is linked to an Age. The more you Write, the more refined the link is... and depending on how *well* you Write, the link and the Age is either more or less stable.

The actual description itself is hard to express in nglish, however, since it deals with concepts that English has no words for... the best thing I could come up with during my last brain-melting contemplation on the subject is that the words used to describe Ages are some strange combination of nouns and verbs... so if you can imagine a verb for "mountain" you might be one step ahead of the game http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. Regardless, Age Writing is both an Art and a science ("the science of precise description" according to Gehn), so there is definitely a great deal of Writing that goes into an Age (hence why Descriptive Books are such massive affairs).

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Alahmnat
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HG1973
11-24-2003, 05:51 PM
I always believed that the ages were somehow pre-existing, not created through the writing of books. If one would be believe that the D'ni created the Ages through masterful skill, then how would you explain Earth?

The D'ni cavern is not a seperate Age, it's buried below the crust of our own world, Earth. If the D'ni had created the age then how would you explain the exisitence of human beings? Humans are very similiar to D'ni in alot of ways, even beyond the obvious physical traits. Religion, government, marriage, birth and so on, one could be led to believe we are part of the lesser. While I don't believe in it myself, is it possible that the D'ni created the Age and thus wrote us in?

I have the book of D'ni lying somewhere around the house, still haven't read it though.

Opinions?

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Moleculor
11-24-2003, 10:10 PM
Oh, well, humans are merely the descendants of the original few D'ni who left the caverns after the first great shaft was built back several millenia ago. You -do- remember form your history lessons that a few D'ni disappeared from those digging expeditions, don't you?

Alahmnat
11-24-2003, 10:15 PM
I would venture to say that there were already plenty of humans around when the D'ni got here... the D'ni who stayed on the surface after the vent shaft excavation simply taught them some of the things they knew - including the concept of Uru http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

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Alahmnat
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Uru Forum Moderator, Community Assistant

HG1973
11-25-2003, 02:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Moleculor:
Oh, well, humans are merely the descendants of the original few D'ni who left the caverns after the first great shaft was built back several millenia ago. You -do- remember form your history lessons that a few D'ni disappeared from those digging expeditions, don't you?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Of course, but I wouldn't say all humans.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Alahmnat:
I would venture to say that there were already plenty of humans around when the D'ni got here... the D'ni who stayed on the surface after the vent shaft excavation simply taught them some of the things they knew - including the concept of Uru http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Uru, meaning the great gathering, right?

So it was sort of like the ones the fled to the surface knew that the D'ni as a whole were gonna destroy themselves. And those few that left had spawned descendants that are now drawn to the lost city. Interesting or I could be reading into it too much. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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samgdni
11-25-2003, 08:24 AM
i could swear in the original myst Atrus wrote about penning ages that were improperly worded, causing the age to be unstable, physics to work incorrectly there, inhabitants suffering etc. that as he got better at the Art the ages were prettier, more stable etc. i always thought the ages were created entirely by the writing.

CuzinJohn
11-25-2003, 08:57 AM
Atrus' journal given to you in MYST III: Exile goes into more detail about the wording of ages and what it takes to link to an inhabited age.

I recall a handful of catch-phrases that were critical to the endgame, though I can't quote them from the top of my head.

Tanernin
11-25-2003, 12:53 PM
I tend to agree with D'ni mainstream thinking; that Ages are pre-existing, not created. If they were created, I don't think it would have been possible to link to a different Age like Gehn does with Age 37 in the Book of Atrus.

However, there are some good arguments for the other way around. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

rsd34r21
11-25-2003, 11:51 PM
If the art of writing is simply linking 2 worlds then how did atrus write j'nanin (Exile) as a training tool for his suns to learn how to also perfect the "art"?

perhaps some worlds are simply linked to and others are Really just created.

take stoneship age for example, Atrus wrote the island only to find 3 boys living there already, then he build the light house to gather more ppl to the island. so you see i believe that it could be both Linking of worlds and the creation of worlds.

Unless the good ppl that made the game actualy come forward and say "this is the way it is" then i don't think the question will ever fully be answered.

[This message was edited by rsd34r21 on Tue November 25 2003 at 11:06 PM.]

rsd34r21
11-26-2003, 12:11 AM
Wat i really want to know is how did they learn the "art" who tought it to them\how did they descover that they could link\create worlds?

Alahmnat
11-26-2003, 11:33 PM
I know I wrote a reply to this topic earlier...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rsd34r21:
If the art of writing is simply linking 2 worlds then how did atrus write j'nanin (Exile) as a training tool for his suns to learn how to also perfect the "art"?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
While simply linking to another existing world may not seem to require as much workk, it actually does, and learning how to hone your descriptive abilities is very important to a successful application of The Art. If you're asking how all of the structures and machines got onto J'nanin, I would imagine Atrus built them with volunteer help from inhabitants on other Ages he had Written, since his experiments in Stoneship illustrated what a bad idea Writing manmade structures into an Age is.

However, while Books link to pre-existing worlds, they do seem to have some degree of influence over the course of an Age's evolution on the quantum mechanical level... by altering the probabilities of a certain even happening (like, 20-foot daggers suddenly materializing out of thin air) it's possible to alter the appearance of an Age. However, this is understandably dangerous, as collapsing the *wrong* probability waveforms can rip the world apart as it strains to wrap itself around whatever paradox you've just managed to land it in.

My guess is that you cannot *directly* alter anything that has been either directly described in a Book or observed while visiting the Age. So if you need to do something like alter the orbit of the moon (ala Riven), you can't just Write a change into the Book that alters the orbital distance of the moon, you have to indirectly affect it, say by a close encounter with an unobserved passing asteroid which alters the gravitational tug-of-war enough to pull the moon into a higher orbit. You've technically not altered anything that you've directly observed, you're just taking advantage of probability to affect certain outcomes http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Unless the good ppl that made the game actualy come forward and say "this is the way it is" then i don't think the question will ever fully be answered.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
RAWA has said many times that Cyan's perspective is the same as Atrus', but that's not exactly conclusive since the other possibilty is still recognized as well http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

[This message was edited by rsd34r21 on Tue November 25 2003 at 11:06 PM.][/QUOTE]

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Alahmnat
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Uru Forum Moderator, Community Assistant

J_ohn
11-27-2003, 02:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by samgdni:
i could swear in the original myst Atrus wrote about penning ages that were improperly worded, causing the age to be unstable, physics to work incorrectly there, inhabitants suffering etc. that as he got better at the Art the ages were prettier, more stable etc. i always thought the ages were created entirely by the writing.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't forget that there are all sorts of parallel universes out there. Some can be considered "stable", and some "unstable". It is not the faulty Writing technique of a Writer that makes instabilities appear. What it does is make the Book link to (pre-extant) unstable Ages.

SBS http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

rsd34r21
11-27-2003, 02:44 AM
this is a reponce to Alahmnat post...

You basicly sed that if you write an age visit it and then go back and changes something in that age that it becomes altered and there for could become unstable...
I recall reading somewhere that going back and re-writing or changing things in that age cuases that descriptive book to change to an alternet age that looks and feels much like the one you have visited but there are changes, the changes you have writen in. That is y if you had a linking book in the original age that you first wrote about the linking book would no longer be there if you went back and changed the text of the descriptive books...
I have also read that the D'ni ppl have done this went to the age that they have altered in some way shape or form went to where they thought their linking books were and they were not there, leaving them stranded on that age.

rsd34r21
11-27-2003, 05:23 AM
i found this on a website...
i better understand how this workds now.

Changing what is written in the Descriptive Book can cause instability and destruction within an Age, or the changes to the Writing can so alter the description, that the Book links to a different Age altogether. This is one of the reasons the D'ni imposed restraints on how Ages were Written, and did not allow the Writing to be changed once it had been approved by the Maintainers.

rsd34r21
11-27-2003, 05:30 AM
"If you're wearing a hat, or carrying a knapsack, those things will come with you when you link. If you have a linking or Descriptive Book in the knapsack, it will come with you, too, as long as it's not the Book you're using to link to the Age."

Please tell me how this works on the URU game...you carry around a linking book that takes you to Relto yet it says that the book you are using to link to a place stays behind. He is wearing the linking book but since he uses it to link that would cancel out the wearing it part and just fall to the ground, would it not?
You can't tell me he is carring around 50 Relto linking books with him if he has no backpack.

Alahmnat
11-27-2003, 09:44 AM
Relto is unique in that it breaks that rule. No other Book in D'ni history has done that.

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Alahmnat
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Uru Forum Moderator, Community Assistant

rsd34r21
11-27-2003, 12:15 PM
No it's called it's simply for the sake of the game so you can exit an age or fall and never die becuase he links back to Relto rite away.

Alahmnat
11-27-2003, 01:49 PM
Okay, I'll leave you to interpret Yeesha's comments about Relto - as well as the remarks from Dr. Watson of the DRC here (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=5351071&m=3071071) - however you like then.

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Alahmnat
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Uru Forum Moderator, Community Assistant

CuzinJohn
11-30-2003, 07:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rsd34r21:
No it's called it's simply for the sake of the game so you can exit an age or fall and never die becuase he links back to Relto rite away.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Maybe, but the explanation they gave seems appropriate enough. Times change, for us, AND for what would have been the D'Ni culture.

There are records of some of OUR laws that read "You can't drive a motorcar on the road as it tends to scare the horses pulling the carriages." That was the law back then. The times have changed, technology and new ideas have prospered, and the laws have since been altered.

Times have changed for what's left of the D'Ni, too. The Book of Atrus marks the end of a timeline at least a hundred years before Uru picks up. In that time, Yeesha had new ideas. She made the "You can't take it with you" law of linking books obsolete.

Sure, most likely it was a gambit to make the game play work better. But the justification for this gambit it legitimate enough.

rsd34r21
11-30-2003, 09:07 AM
well if times have changed then their history\our history of the D'ni world would remain the same, seeing as it's in the PAST...!!

HG1973
12-01-2003, 11:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rsd34r21:
well if times have changed then their history\our history of the D'ni world would remain the same, seeing as it's in the PAST...!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

True, but there was no history for us yet until the DRC discovered D'ni pre-Uru. Remember during Myst and the sequels we were a lone outsider from 200+ years ago before Yeesha was born.

http://unrealhell.homestead.com/files/uru_hg.jpg

AussieMystic
12-02-2003, 10:18 PM
Interestingly, I was just pondering these issues myself during lunch, and was going to post a thread asking some questions, but it seems the topic is already under discussion!

I had long assumed from what I had found out through the various games that the book itself relating to an age contained the description of the age, and that the age was effectively 'contained' within the book. It may not be physically located in the book, but the act of writing something in a book, or altering it, caused something to come into existence or be altered in some faraway location. Whether that is in some parallel or alternate universe, or 'our' universe, wasn't clear.

This is why, for example, Atrus was so keen to rescue Releeshan from Saavedro - if Saavedro damaged the book he would damage the age. This, too, is why Gehn's ages were always plagued with problems, because his writing skills were poor. It was not simply a case of writing a link to a pre-existing location - what you wrote defined and shaped the character of the location.

This explained some things. If the world was not physically located within the linking book, it prevented recursiveness problems - for instance, if Stoneship was located in the Stoneship book, and the Stoneship book is located on Myst Island, then the Stoneship age is contained within Myst - however, there is a Myst book in the Stoneship age, so that would imply that Myst was within Stoneship within Myst, or within itself. Surely that could not be.

It also gave a reason why linking books could not follow you to the age you linked to (except for Relto...).

However, there is still a problem. There are often multiple linking books connecting to a particular age. For instance, in Myst there are five Myst linking books - in Channelwood, Mechanical, Selenetic, Stoneship and D'ni. There is also the Myst book which Atrus apparently lost in the fissure. Which is the book which 'describes' Myst? If the description is altered in one, but not the other, what is the effect on the age? A similar problem arises in Uru, where there are two books each for Eder Gira, Eder Kemo and Kadish. There is also the problem of the Bahro linking stones, which are clearly not books but mere tapestries on rock.

I don't think my questions are fully answered by the above but I'm glad others are wrestling with the same metaphysical problems!

Alahmnat
12-02-2003, 11:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AussieMystic:
I had long assumed from what I had found out through the various games that the book itself relating to an age contained the description of the age, and that the age was effectively 'contained' within the book. It may not be physically located in the book, but the act of writing something in a book, or altering it, caused something to come into existence or be altered in some faraway location. Whether that is in some parallel or alternate universe, or 'our' universe, wasn't clear.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Books act as bridges between this universe and a world in an alternate universe. THe Writing in them acts as the structure out of which that bridge is built.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>This is why, for example, Atrus was so keen to rescue Releeshan from Saavedro - if Saavedro damaged the book he would damage the age.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Actually, if Saavedro destroyed the Releeshahn Book, Atrus and Catherine would be forever seperated from the D'ni, and all Linking Books back to Releeshahn would cease to function (according to current theories).

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>This, too, is why Gehn's ages were always plagued with problems, because his writing skills were poor. It was not simply a case of writing a link to a pre-existing location - what you wrote defined and shaped the character of the location.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
To some extent you are correct http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. Writing in the Book will collapse certain quantum mechanical waves "creating"things in an Age. This is not true creation, however, it's simply probability manipulation. To some extent the initial link may collapse certain probability waves causing a planet and accompanying star system to appear seemingly out of nowhere. If you've ever read Douglas Adams'Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, it's not entirely unlike the Infinite Improbability Drive. So while Ages are merely linked to and not created, what you Write does have an effect on an Age's stability because of the quantum mechanical effects a Book seems to have on where it links.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>However, there is still a problem. There are often multiple linking books connecting to a particular age. For instance, in Myst there are five Myst linking books - in Channelwood, Mechanical, Selenetic, Stoneship and D'ni. There is also the Myst book which Atrus apparently lost in the fissure. Which is the book which 'describes' Myst?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
There are actually two kinds of Books. One is a Descriptive Book, which does actually contain the description for an Age. Changing the description in this Book changes the Age, and potentially shifts the link to a new Age if the changes are severe or contradictory enough. The other is a Linking Book, which merely asks as a sort of bookmark, linking back to the place where you Wrote it. Changing the text in this Book has no effect on any Age, though it may affect the link itself due to the way Linking Books operate. However, we don't know enough about how Linking Books are Written to say for certain what would happen if you edited the description in a location or Age that was different from the one in which you Wrote it.

I don't think anybody can claim to know exactly how the Bahro Stones work though. They're just... weird.

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Alahmnat
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Uru Forum Moderator, Community Assistant

Tvmongoose
04-10-2004, 07:10 PM
im doing too much thinking today...http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif

if descriptive books only create bridges to already existing worlds in other universes or dimensions or whatever, than how can an age begin to decay because of poor writing (like riven)? does this mean that when a discriptive book is written for an age, then the age's - to put it best - fate is directly linked to that book, essentially giving the writer complete power to destroy an age? in that case, the original link that brought the d'ni to earth could have been accidently poorly written by a child, and therefore we would all die in our own age's decay unless it was fixed?

im gonna go stare at a squee until i understand, or until the apocalypse (whichever comes first)

Tom Melon
KI# 00028864
no, im not living in a pretend world where live still exists;
im just too lazy to change the signature

Jnathus
04-10-2004, 10:14 PM
This response is for HG1973 who said: "I always believed that the ages were somehow pre-existing, not created through the writing of books. If one would be believe that the D'ni created the Ages through masterful skill, then how would you explain Earth?

The D'ni cavern is not a seperate Age, it's buried below the crust of our own world, Earth. If the D'ni had created the age then how would you explain the exisitence of human beings?"

According to The Book of Ti'ana, there is an ancient master of D'ni who wrote The Book of Earth (which is of course where the D'ni underground city is located). His name was Ri'neref.

Throughout the book, they mention the fact that there are surface dwellers as though it is somehow a foregone conclusion. Whether or not this was 'written' into the age or not is up for debate, however the fact remains that according to the books, Earth and the underground cavern were all written (or linked to) in the same book.

Jnathus
04-10-2004, 10:15 PM
- - sorry, double post. Forum won't let me delete it. - -

EMilyRose
04-12-2004, 02:32 PM
I am currently reading the Book of Ti'ana and I am struck by a dilema..

Ri'neref wrote a descriptive book that linked to Earth. Now whether his writing created the Earth or just connected to an existing world is not part of my question.

Ri'neref wrote this book on Garternay, but from my understanding of the Art, it would be impossible to bring the descriptive book to the age it described. (mere speculation, but is consistent with Riven, Exile and the Book of Atrus) If that were so, and Garternay was destroyed, then the descptive book would also have been destroyed, and all the linking books would also become useless.

Alahmnat
04-12-2004, 03:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EMilyRose:
Ri'neref wrote this book on Garternay, but from my understanding of the Art, it would be impossible to bring the descriptive book to the age it described.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Not 100% correct, actually. It is possible to bring a Book with you when you link, it just can't be the same Book you're using to link in the first place (Relto being the exception). So, link to Earth, write a Linking Book, and then go back to Garternay, pack up the Book of Earth, and bring it with you through the Linking Book. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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sophieb
04-12-2004, 07:59 PM
This is a slight change of direction...

At the end of the first Uru game, when Yeesha gave the gift of rain, I got the impression that the ages that she wrote were different from the previous writers' ages. In fact, I think that she says as much. And, I remember feeling like maybe her worlds functioned differently. But, I wonder how. What did she do differently?

HG1973
04-24-2004, 02:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jnathus:
This response is for HG1973 who said: "I always believed that the ages were somehow pre-existing, not created through the writing of books. If one would be believe that the D'ni created the Ages through masterful skill, then how would you explain Earth?

The D'ni cavern is not a seperate Age, it's buried below the crust of our own world, Earth. If the D'ni had created the age then how would you explain the exisitence of human beings?"

According to The Book of Ti'ana, there is an ancient master of D'ni who wrote The Book of Earth (which is of course where the D'ni underground city is located). His name was Ri'neref.

Throughout the book, they mention the fact that there are surface dwellers as though it is somehow a foregone conclusion. Whether or not this was 'written' into the age or not is up for debate, however the fact remains that according to the books, Earth and the underground cavern were all written (or linked to) in the same book.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know about this, I too read the book, finally. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I was only bringing up the fact that the D'ni do not create the actual worlds themselves, but rather the link to them.

The point I was actually trying to make at the time was -records show that the D'ni seemed to only write descriptions of primitive/lesser lifeforms such as animals like birds into their books. When the writer made their initial 'christening' link to a new Age, they were often suprised by the fact that, humanoid lifeforms had been living there for quite along time. If they were suprised, then they apparently did not expect that and hence they couldn't have created the Age.

This also trickles down to other things besides lifeforms.

http://unrealhell.homestead.com/files/uru_hg.jpg

ATXSlider
04-27-2004, 02:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HG1973:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jnathus:
This response is for HG1973 who said: "I always believed that the ages were somehow pre-existing, not created through the writing of books. If one would be believe that the D'ni created the Ages through masterful skill, then how would you explain Earth?

The D'ni cavern is not a seperate Age, it's buried below the crust of our own world, Earth. If the D'ni had created the age then how would you explain the exisitence of human beings?"

According to The Book of Ti'ana, there is an ancient master of D'ni who wrote The Book of Earth (which is of course where the D'ni underground city is located). His name was Ri'neref.

Throughout the book, they mention the fact that there are surface dwellers as though it is somehow a foregone conclusion. Whether or not this was 'written' into the age or not is up for debate, however the fact remains that according to the books, Earth and the underground cavern were all written (or linked to) in the same book.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know about this, I too read the book, finally. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I was only bringing up the fact that the D'ni do not create the actual worlds themselves, but rather the link to them.

The point I was actually trying to make at the time was -records show that the D'ni seemed to only write descriptions of primitive/lesser lifeforms such as animals like birds into their books. When the writer made their initial 'christening' link to a new Age, they were often suprised by the fact that, humanoid lifeforms had been living there for quite along time. If they were suprised, then they apparently did not expect that and hence they couldn't have created the Age.

This also trickles down to other things besides lifeforms.

http://unrealhell.homestead.com/files/uru_hg.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Of course we could also make the argument that perhaps they did not completely understand everything about the systems they were writing. Some could have written in ways a world was constructed, and then not realize that certain things in that world could only be affected in the way they described by a higher lifeform, thus implicitly inserting the humanoid lifeforms they sometimes were suprised to find. They may not have written in the lifeforms, in other words, but the lifeforms were neccessary for the world they created to be up to par, so to speak.