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BaldieJr
10-03-2004, 08:57 PM
Lovin 'em. Excellent planes.

I'm wondering why either are so rarely flown?

BaldieJr
10-03-2004, 08:57 PM
Lovin 'em. Excellent planes.

I'm wondering why either are so rarely flown?

JR_Greenhorn
10-03-2004, 09:03 PM
Now that we have the P-51B, it's the only Mustang I fly. I just don't like the later marks as much. Of course, I only fly offline, so it doesn't matter what I fly.

VW-IceFire
10-03-2004, 09:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BaldieJr:
Lovin 'em. Excellent planes.

I'm wondering why either are so rarely flown? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Firepower.

Sometimes they are nicer to fly...and I do take them out. Some servers only let you fly the D model too...which is bogus.

Howie A
10-03-2004, 10:04 PM
I enjoy them too but they don't turn as well as the D so I don't fly them as much. The little reading I've done from pilot accounts state a preference for the B in this regard.

LuftLuver
10-03-2004, 11:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Howie A:
I enjoy them too but they don't turn as well as the D ... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Um, they turn much better than the D.

Jasko76
10-04-2004, 01:08 AM
Guns, mainly. They lack the punch. One must be a pretty good shot (which I'm not) to be successful in P-51B/C.

Maple_Tiger
10-04-2004, 04:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Howie A:
I enjoy them too but they don't turn as well as the D so I don't fly them as much. The little reading I've done from pilot accounts state a preference for the B in this regard. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


lol,

The B/C turn better the the D.

BM357_TinMan
10-04-2004, 05:17 AM
The B is my plane of choice, followed by the C, but on a good deal of the maps the D is the only choice.

I was ?warclouds I think? Saturday night and they had the B http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif so I flew it.

Heavy_Weather
10-04-2004, 06:45 AM
i prefer the older models with the Merlin engines but that is the difference i suppose as far as why we dont see enough of them, just not enough firepower. 4 50's seem a bit weak when trying to take down 190's, almost a whole ammo load unless you get a pilot kill.

PBNA-Boosher
10-04-2004, 07:21 AM
I learned to fly the 51B/C with the help of this forum, but the fact is I prefer the Yak-1/1b, P-36's, and P-40E.

VFA-195 Snacky
10-04-2004, 11:41 AM
your better off shooting BBs than trying to kill anything with those 4 50 cals. Only thing worse is trying to damage something with a Spit after your cannons go dry with the two remaining 50 cals. lol http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

LStarosta
10-04-2004, 01:51 PM
If you can't shoot anything down with 4x.50's then I'm sorry, but something is wrong with you. These "peashooters" are exceptional engine and player killers.

P51B/C is my favorite ride after the P47.

Aaron_GT
10-04-2004, 02:16 PM
"I'm wondering why either are so rarely flown?"

Because we have the Spitfire http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Seriously, the P51s are superb especially since you can loiter at altitude with a high cruise speed virtually forever. I like them. The B and C lack a bit in firepower (about half that of the Spitfire IXe) which is a problem in dogfight servers when people will press on with their mission long after most real life pilots would have bailed.

I find myself splitting between the Spitfire and the P38 when I can get online - the Spit is good for typical turning dogfights as well as limited BnZ, and the P38 is a good ground pounder. The P51B/C is a great escort plane, but there doesn't seem to be enough scope for escort in DF servers and it sort of falls between two horses, sadly. Also if the P63 is available and you can cope with the huge muzzle flash it tends to fit the average DF server a bit better, with its short legs not really mattering much.

If things like range and pilot comfort came into play more I think we'd see a MUCH different balance of aircraft with a lot more P51s up there. Probably what we need are coops and DF server missions with airstarts and so on that encourage or select P51s in the roles in which they excelled.

Bull_dog_
10-04-2004, 06:45 PM
#1 answer: lack of firepower...especially online. Offline I have a second install of V2.02 for offline play. The .50's are spot on imho in that version and i fly the B/C more than the D.

#2 really poor forward view...not sure why there is so much difference in forward view from B to D but there is so when flying cockpit on, I fly the D. Kinda like Jug fighting...can't fight effectively in a D-10/22 because of forward view

#3 Probably a matter of popularity. It was the D model that was glamorized....at least that is how I grew up.

Personally, I like the B model better offline for the challenge but online it is largely an exercise in futility. I have read so many accounts of multiple kills with the B/C but I don't find that to be a reality online. Yeah, you can get smokers that land and you get credit, but that isn't how it really happened. Confirmed kills were those that went down in view of another pilot or guncam film showed a plane's immenent demise. Online warfare just isn't like that so I fly the D or better yet the spit...now that is one mean machine.

If you are unhappy with the modelling of .50's, try to get the 2.02 patch...you'll love it. It is not overpowering, but if you do your gunnery justice, you can at times kill multiple bogeys without a feeling like your using lazers.

LStarosta
10-04-2004, 07:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bull_dog_:
#1 answer: lack of firepower...especially online. Offline I have a second install of V2.02 for offline play. The .50's are spot on imho in that version and i fly the B/C more than the D.

#2 really poor forward view...not sure why there is so much difference in forward view from B to D but there is so when flying cockpit on, I fly the D. Kinda like Jug fighting...can't fight effectively in a D-10/22 because of forward view

#3 Probably a matter of popularity. It was the D model that was glamorized....at least that is how I grew up.

Personally, I like the B model better offline for the challenge but online it is largely an exercise in futility. I have read so many accounts of multiple kills with the B/C but I don't find that to be a reality online. Yeah, you can get smokers that land and you get credit, but that isn't how it really happened. Confirmed kills were those that went down in view of another pilot or guncam film showed a plane's immenent demise. Online warfare just isn't like that so I fly the D or better yet the spit...now that is one mean machine.

If you are unhappy with the modelling of .50's, try to get the 2.02 patch...you'll love it. It is not overpowering, but if you do your gunnery justice, you can at times kill multiple bogeys without a feeling like your using lazers. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

D10/22's aren't ineffective. They just take a little getting used to. If you can fly the Razorbacks, then Fw190 "bar" protesters will seem like prepubescent whiners in comparison.

And in fact, in WWII, kills were not only awarded with guncam footage but with another pilot's witness as well. And this is where kills tend to have been "overreported". More than one pilot would claim the same plane as a full kill. Hence, many times all that was needed was a pilot to see smoke coming from a plane and he'd claim it as a downed aircraft. Couple this with the fact that Luftwaffe pilots dove away from the Americans rapidly, causing their Messerschmitts to leave "braids" of smoke trailing from their exhaust pipes which caused many aggressors to disengage, further causing many American pilots to believe that they had downed an aircraft which they had probably had no sufficient claim on.

I agree that kill credit awarding in IL2 is way off compared to real life, but I'm just pointing out that in WWII many pilots claimed smokers as downed enemy aircraft. Whether they did this rightfully or not is up to the debate of each individual pilot, in my opinion.

BaldieJr
10-04-2004, 07:28 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

I like the B/C's. They are good fighters down low and can cary a large enough bomb load that almost every sortie ends in at least a few points.

I've cracked open plenty other planes with the 4 .50's, and thats saying something (cause my gunnery sucks mud).

WUAF_Badsight
10-04-2004, 11:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LStarosta:
If you can't shoot anything down with 4x.50's then I'm sorry, but something is wrong with you. These "peashooters" are exceptional engine and player killers. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

exactly