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CanterburyTales
03-14-2011, 09:14 PM
So in the Assassin's Creed universe, where do the Freemasons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemasonry) and Illuminati (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illuminati) stand. I know that in the Glyphs in AC II, there a few Templars who were Masons (such as FDR, Winston Churchill, LBJ, Buzz Aldrin), but on the other hand, Hitler was also a Templar and Freemasons were one of the many groups persecuted in the Holocaust (among other places and times (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suppression_of_Freemasonry)). I'm also not too sure about George Washington and the Freemasons as an organization being aligned w/the AC!Templars. I know about their alleged Templar origins in real life, but they (and the Illuminati) were part of the Enlightenment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Enlightenment) and (as I said before) were persecuted. Another thing is the fact that the Masonic logo (the Square and Compasses (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square_and_Compasses)) looks a bit like the Assassin logo. Finally, I, personally, like the idea that the Freemasons are not controlling the world but trying to free it.

Now, as for the Bavarian Illuminati, they would seem locked in to me as being pro-AC!Assassin (or at least anti-AC!Templar), again because of their Enlightenment ideals.

realman36
03-15-2011, 06:18 AM
I must admit that those Iluminati guys really intimidate me. Not only in games, but also in real life. It's like they're going to find out that I am talking about them or researching them.

G00dFella613
03-15-2011, 11:34 AM
. like the idea that the Freemasons are not controlling the world but trying to free it.

I personally think that you have it all wrong. I know that the AC seal looks a lot like a Masonic seal. However, I don't think that the Assassins are masonic, but rather a fraternal order that seeks to stop the successor organization to the Knights Templar known as Abstergo Industries (AI).

AI is your the ideal organization that would make Alex Jones, Jeff Rense, David Icke, and other conspiracy-theorists just go all-out crazy if such a corporation existed. From the clues in the series so far, it is sold to the public as a pharmaceutical company that engages in activity outside that field (i.e. Using the Animus on Desmond to locate the Apple of Eden - an object which would only be sought after by those who want greater power, testing "New Fluoride" by mixing it in the public drinking water as opposed to running a controlled experiment). Break into Warren Vidic's email account in the first AC for more info - there are daily AI company updates and insider correspondence that only Vidic receives (hidden from Lucy) that talk about even putting a satellite into orbit.

So AI operates sort of, BUT NOT EXACTLY, like Monsanto Comapny (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsanto) that is a "multinational agricultural biotechnology corporation" that has made a name for itself by suing organic farmers because seeds of their patented GMO frankenstein seeds blew or defecated by birds onto their farms. Patenting life is very controlling and what is even scarier about Monsanto is that they are trying to buy up supplies of all-natural, organic food seeds - a move which will put world hunger at the mercy of this corporation. Even more disturbing, they own the patent to what is called the "terminator gene" (See here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_use_restriction_technology) and here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsanto#Terminator_seed_controversy) ).

I know your thinking in your head what Monsanto has to do with AI being that one is a agricultural biotechnology company and the other is a pharmaceutical. The answer is that they operate using the most evil and unethical techniques to gain revenue and power. Some would argue that pharmaceutical companies are not harmful, but research and produce medicines that benefits those with the condition that the drug is made for. I would argue NAY! IT'S A BUSINESS! Take note that THERE'S NO MONEY IN FINDING THE CURE! Physicians and psychiatrists don't want to see their professions and/or field of medical concentration perish at the hands of a cure, right? Politicians, lobbyists, FDA officials all protect those big interests Speaking of, Monsanto donates so much money to our US two party candidates along with the banksters at Goldman Sachs. Then guess who gets appointed FDA deputy commissioner of the FDA by Obama? No other than former Monsanto attorney Michael Taylor (Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/...html?hpid=sec-health (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/13/AR2010011304402.html?hpid=sec-health) ).

Enough of my rant. So far the only hope I have is that the Tea Party is going to stop being a peaceful protest group and start putting a group of assassins together to rid the world of corruption, greed, evil, and bad government.

(That last sentence was a joke if you couldn't figure it out, and is very unlikely to happen.)

CanterburyTales
03-21-2011, 06:28 PM
I was simply speculating about what role (if any) the Bavarian Illuminati play/has played in the AC universe, and the affiliation of the Freemasons (both as a whole and of certain individuals). I personally have a beef with George Washington and the Masons as a whole being AC!Templar-aligned (see my above post), and want to know what others think on the subject. I could, however, see some individual Masons as Templars.

See this page (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/George_Washington) to see where my concerns are coming from.

AJ_Rimmer_Bsc
03-22-2011, 04:42 AM
The Freemasons was a boyz club,and got exaggerated over time into something spurious.

its still a boys club,though tin foil hatting has tried to make it into something it isnt.

same goes for the illuminati,the second they decided to not let a few tin foilers join,those tin foilers then spread the gossip and rumour mongering and it just grew out of proportion.

just goes to show the internet tin foilers were not the first to start this lunacy,its been going on for years.

"send three and fourpence,we are going to a dance"

A lie told often enough becomes the truth.
Lenin Russian Communist politician & revolutionary (1870 - 1924)

RebeccaLH
03-22-2011, 02:32 PM
Whenever i try to research freemasons/illuminati i cant find much. I dont know what there about minus the secret societys and controlling the world.
Can anybody tell me the basics?

elvindrummer
03-22-2011, 02:36 PM
It's funny that this was on the first forum page today and I saw it, because I was literally talking about this today. I am really confused because my friend says the freemasons are like just a part of christianity (club type thing) and if you are a girl you are in rainbow...can someone explain? I have a friend who says she is a freemason but I'm confused.

Also I thought the freemasons were templars in creed. Also I thought this is how there are represented in Dan Brown's book "The Lost Symbol". But if they are just like a club thingy for christians this makes no sense. So if someone can explain this would be greatly appreciated.

RebeccaLH
03-22-2011, 02:51 PM
Originally posted by elvindrummer:
It's funny that this was on the first forum page today and I saw it, because I was literally talking about this today. I am really confused because my friend says the freemasons are like just a part of christianity (club type thing) and if you are a girl you are in rainbow...can someone explain? I have a friend who says she is a freemason but I'm confused.

Also I thought the freemasons were templars in creed. Also I thought this is how there are represented in Dan Brown's book "The Lost Symbol". But if they are just like a club thingy for christians this makes no sense. So if someone can explain this would be greatly appreciated.

i think freemasons are exclusively for men.
but heard that in some places there are women allowed, confusing but yeah....

elvindrummer
03-22-2011, 03:58 PM
Originally posted by RebeccaLH:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by elvindrummer:
It's funny that this was on the first forum page today and I saw it, because I was literally talking about this today. I am really confused because my friend says the freemasons are like just a part of christianity (club type thing) and if you are a girl you are in rainbow...can someone explain? I have a friend who says she is a freemason but I'm confused.

Also I thought the freemasons were templars in creed. Also I thought this is how there are represented in Dan Brown's book "The Lost Symbol". But if they are just like a club thingy for christians this makes no sense. So if someone can explain this would be greatly appreciated.

i think freemasons are exclusively for men.
but heard that in some places there are women allowed, confusing but yeah.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I thought they were but aren't anymore. I thought there were people in the american government today that are woman that are apart of it. Its hard to know because we aren't supposed to know I guess lol

CanterburyTales
03-22-2011, 06:00 PM
Originally posted by elvindrummer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RebeccaLH:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by elvindrummer:
It's funny that this was on the first forum page today and I saw it, because I was literally talking about this today. I am really confused because my friend says the freemasons are like just a part of christianity (club type thing) and if you are a girl you are in rainbow...can someone explain? I have a friend who says she is a freemason but I'm confused.

Also I thought the freemasons were templars in creed. Also I thought this is how there are represented in Dan Brown's book "The Lost Symbol". But if they are just like a club thingy for christians this makes no sense. So if someone can explain this would be greatly appreciated.

i think freemasons are exclusively for men.
but heard that in some places there are women allowed, confusing but yeah.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I thought they were but aren't anymore. I thought there were people in the american government today that are woman that are apart of it. Its hard to know because we aren't supposed to know I guess lol </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Freemasonry is not a Christian organization, and while one does need to be a theist (someone who believes in god(s)) to become a Mason, the details of the individual's belief are unimportant to the organization. Also, the leadership of the Catholic Church has often had an antagonistic relationship with Freemasonry. However, the Masonic lodge often served as a unifying force between many Catholics and Protestants.

And yes, there have been many Freemasons in the US government, but only 14 out of the 43* people who have served as PotUS - Washington included - have been Masons.

* - I say 43 and not 44 because Grover Cleveland served two nonconsecutive terms (the only PotUS to do so), making him both the 22nd and 24th president.

elvindrummer
03-23-2011, 01:18 PM
Originally posted by CanterburyTales:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by elvindrummer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RebeccaLH:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by elvindrummer:
It's funny that this was on the first forum page today and I saw it, because I was literally talking about this today. I am really confused because my friend says the freemasons are like just a part of christianity (club type thing) and if you are a girl you are in rainbow...can someone explain? I have a friend who says she is a freemason but I'm confused.

Also I thought the freemasons were templars in creed. Also I thought this is how there are represented in Dan Brown's book "The Lost Symbol". But if they are just like a club thingy for christians this makes no sense. So if someone can explain this would be greatly appreciated.

i think freemasons are exclusively for men.
but heard that in some places there are women allowed, confusing but yeah.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I thought they were but aren't anymore. I thought there were people in the american government today that are woman that are apart of it. Its hard to know because we aren't supposed to know I guess lol </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Freemasonry is not a Christian organization, and while one does need to be a theist (someone who believes in god(s)) to become a Mason, the details of the individual's belief are unimportant to the organization. Also, the leadership of the Catholic Church has often had an antagonistic relationship with Freemasonry. However, the Masonic lodge often served as a unifying force between many Catholics and Protestants.

And yes, there have been many Freemasons in the US government, but only 14 out of the 43* people who have served as PotUS - Washington included - have been Masons.

* - I say 43 and not 44 because Grover Cleveland served two nonconsecutive terms (the only PotUS to do so), making him both the 22nd and 24th president. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

thanks this is what I originally thought and my friend today had no idea what she was talking about.

Xmbm
03-28-2011, 05:34 AM
Actually George Washington was one of the biggest enemies of the Illuminati. You can read some of his written letters in the archives at the Library of Congress where he states the Illuminati is the biggest threat of America. But clearly, when there is a storyline of the church and politicians involved during the late 1700's, the Illuminati should be involved, as it was one of the highest talking points during those times. Like one of you said, it's hard to find something about freemasons/illuminati, that's certainly true. People are gonna have to read the sources for themselves if they want to know the true history about this evil organization.
Anyway, this game is fictional, not fact. When you start the game, you can also read that the developers have different belief systems and religions. Ubisoft is defenitely not making you believe something is true, it's all fiction. So don't believe anything in the game is fact.

CanterburyTales
04-01-2011, 03:00 PM
As I brought up here (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:George_Washington) and here (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Third_Apple), are we even 100% certain that Freemasonry in the AC-universe is an arm of the Templar Order? The evidence linking Freemasonry to the Templars so far seems to be at least circumstantial. The encoded hidden message in Glyph #3 in AC II (the one featuring a picture of FDR) says "The Masons brought [the Third Apple] across the sea. George Washington passed it on."

El_Sjietah
04-01-2011, 03:07 PM
It's far more likely that the Templars infiltrated the Freemasons and operated under its guise as a subgroup imo.

gzusfrk4lif
06-18-2011, 11:03 PM
The freemasons are a charitable group in which their main goal (for most houses) is to basicly do good deeds and make a better world. Their motto is something like "a better world with better men." they're not about eliminating people and stuff like that, they're just about installing good morals in men so there are better people out there in the world. They basically were a boys club that expanded into something extravagant. All the rumors though of them being power hungry and starting wars and trying to take over the world, it's all bull. The freemasons also have several charity organizations that are publicly known, one such is Masonic Child Identification Programs (CHIP) which help children find out their identities and their parents etc., another is the Royal Masonic School (UK) who provide good education for masonic children at a cheap price for those who need it. They also have many organizations in which help to raise funds and money for those who need it.

However there is no central organization in the freemasons, there are many branches, each with slightly different beliefs but all centralizing around the central idea of "a better world with better men." Now as for them being alligned with the templars, i'm not too sure about that since the organization was actually KNOWN to have started around the late 16th or 17th century. There was have been manuscripts found dating back to the 1200's and earlier, but as an earlier form of the freemasons, not the ones found today. Most of what is known about the freemasons is only dated back to the 16th or 17th century, leading to the fact that maybe freemasons use to be templars or aligned with them, then a civil war broke out in the club, the group we know of today won, and burnt any evidence of them being a power hungry group.

Initiation or acceptance into freemasons is believed to be by invite only, however it is actually the opposite, members are actually not allowed to invite people in some houses, but to only let people in when they inquire about it. Of course they have to meet certain specifications such as having a good character, not having any physical disabilities that would hinder their work or ideals in some way, and to have a belief in a Supreme Being, one of their choice. God is not the Designated Supreme Being, one may believe in any form of a supreme being, and also discussion of religion and politics is forbidden in the house among house members so one may not have to justify himself of his beliefs. You can actually go online and find websites to enroll in the fraternity.

This is all that i know of...for the most part, everything important really haha. Now the illuminati...well of what i know of they're supposedly the power hungry group who got almost wiped out, whether by the freemasons, or some other group. I think the illuminati were more of the "axis" powers in world war II, due to the talk of hitler being an illuminati and targeting freemasons in his holocaust. Freemasons that are known were also george washington, theordore rosevelt, a lot of the allies powers leaders, also winston churchill. Which is why i believe the illuminati almost got wiped out, because the freemasons were the winning power in WWII. But then again history is written by the victor so the illuminati could've been the good guys too, but the freemasons hid the truth. Either way, the freemasons are a charitable organization now, bent on creating a better world for everyone.

breedlove94
07-09-2011, 09:16 PM
Although I myself am not a freemason, I do have masonic roots in my family. I hope the Freemasons are sided with the Assassins just because I want to have Assassin blood, but thats just my optimisism http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif And plus I have a hard time picturing Benjamin Franklin (a Freemason) as an evil Templar bent on controlling mankind http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

CaptVimesUK
08-13-2011, 05:20 AM
Actually it was a craft guild of stone masons which then turned into a mens club. Too many conspiracy theorists focusing on Templars and Freemasons when there have been many intriguing groups and societies in history such as the Lunar Society in the UK.

Noen72
08-26-2011, 05:39 PM
ok im really confused now i heard Freemasons are a satanic group try to control the world not save it.

ss_sahota
09-08-2011, 06:11 AM
Originally posted by realman36:
I must admit that those Iluminati guys really intimidate me. Not only in games, but also in real life. It's like they're going to find out that I am talking about them or researching them.

m8 they allready know ur talking about them they run everything. probably these forums aswell. research on you tube new world order 2012. they run games, music and film industry. even the goverment is freemason. if u dont belive me go on you tube and research urself espically about the new world order 2012

assassins7s
09-08-2011, 06:33 AM
Originally posted by ss_sahota:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by realman36:
I must admit that those Iluminati guys really intimidate me. Not only in games, but also in real life. It's like they're going to find out that I am talking about them or researching them.

m8 they allready know ur talking about them
they run everything. probably these forums aswell. research on you tube new world order 2012. they run games, music and film industry. even the goverment is freemason. if u dont belive me go on you tube and research urself espically about the new world order 2012 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

wooow guys listen to this guy he knows what hes talking about take his advice honestly !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

anosattak20
07-25-2013, 02:31 AM
I must admit that those Iluminati guys really intimidate me. Not only in games, but also in real life. It's like they're going to find out that I am talking about them or researching them.

i am totaly agree with you

anosattak20
07-25-2013, 02:40 AM
simply freemasons wants to destroy any Religion especially Islam and make the world full of drugs porn and Homosexuality and destroy Meaning of marriage and the Family and make the only way to have sex with any girl just a cuple of sweet words lets you in and make the man Tends to evil more than good thats all

Assassin_M
07-25-2013, 04:09 PM
simply freemasons wants to destroy any Religion especially Islam and make the world full of drugs porn and Homosexuality and destroy Meaning of marriage and the Family and make the only way to have sex with any girl just a cuple of sweet words lets you in and make the man Tends to evil more than good thats all
dafuq did I just read :|

iHashishin
08-11-2013, 01:57 AM
Okay, I've been looking into this stuff for a long time. Here's what I think:
The Freemasons whether in-game or in real life are a fraternal order (brotherhood) open only to men. There is a separate order called the Eastern Star which is open only to women and is more or less similar to Masonry. Whether they are a benevolent or malign organization is entirely up to you. Some say that the York Rite folks (one of whose top degrees is 'Knight Templar') are the good guys while the Scottish Rite folks (who have the 33 degrees) are the bad guys. I don't know. I'm not a Mason. One thing is for sure though and that is that when the Knights Templar were scourged in Europe they fled to Scotland and Switzerland. Also, the National Treasure films, which are heavily Masonic, seem to insist that the Masons are the modern Knights Templar.
In the span of time in between the inception of the Bavarian Illuminati and their dissolution at the hands of the German government, members of the Illuminai infiltrated various secret societies in order to disseminate their own paradigm and undermine these other societies. Many claim the the French Revolution was brought about by Illuminati agents in Masonic lodges. The Illuminati used a hierarchical system within their own organization that promised a 'great secret' to initiates should they finally make it all the way to the top and reports say that at the top the secret was revealed to be that there was no secret. This bears a bit of similarity to the revelations of Al Mualim in the AC game. Nothing is true?
Make no mistake though. After the Illuminati were shut down, they doctrines and initiates persisted albeit in other organizations. Knowing that they would face persecution should they ever reorganize under the same name, they developed other societies by a whole slew of names as the years went on. So who are they today? I wouldn't say that they are any one single organization but rather exist as many organizations....more horses in the race, you see? So are the Knights Templar actually Abstergo Industries? Or Microsoft? Or Apple? Or Monsanto? Or Bayer? Or DuPont?
As for the real-life Assassin's Brotherhood, look to the Hashishins (yes that's Hashish). I won't go in depth about Hassan-Al-Sabbah and their history as what can reliably be known about them is pretty freely accessible on the internet. Now, what exactly is known for certain is very little. The direct inheritors of the Assassin's organization remains in place today as Ismailism. The direct inheritors of the Assassin's legacy would more likely be close to the CIA. Check out the CIA Manual 'A Study of Assassination' http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB4/ciaguat2.html
There are Freemasons everywhere. I wouldn't think of them as a boogeyman in the dark. You probably walk past them everyday on the street or know some yourself. One Freemason I know worked for Haliburton and after college went on to work for a military contractor where he teaches their engineers deep-well drilling techniques. Yes, the Assassin's logo bears a resemblance to the square and compass or Masonry, but if you start looking for it, you'll begin to see it everywhere in addition to their symbolism. If you investigate the seal or logo of your university, you're likely to find Masonic symbols there. I suppose there is only one true way to know what their organization is all about....
As for the involvement of the US founding fathers and these sorts of organizations, I think that AC3 probably depicts the truth rather accurately. Masonry was a focal organization at the time and they were likely in contact with all sorts of folks, especially considering the level of political importance and, dare we say, celebrity these men had. I just don't believe there is any one to one comparison between Masonry and Assassins or Templars.

Stevodude2012
09-26-2013, 12:56 PM
My mom had a boyfriend that was part of the freemasons. After my mom broke up with him, she did research about the freemasons, and found out that they are a satanic group of men just like the illuminati. They are not christian, they are the opposite.