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GoToAway
11-28-2006, 12:18 PM
I'm currently doing a research paper on one of my favorite rides, the Brewster Buffalo.

I was hoping that people could point me towards a few reliable (read: not wikipedia) sources of info for the following:

Kill/Loss stats in Dutch service
Kill/Loss stats in the Continuation War (I see wildly varying figures)


Thanks.

F19_Olli72
11-28-2006, 01:02 PM
For finnish Brewsters i would look for books by Kari Stenman (you might find english editions and or english/finnish altough sometimes theyre mostly in finnish).

http://www.kolumbus.fi/kari.stenman/

According to Soumen Ilmavoimien Historia 1/Brewster model 239 the finnish Brewsters had a total of 478 victories (1941 - 44). (Just a quick look, didnt find any loss records).<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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F19 Virtual Squadron (http://www.f19vs.se/)
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GerritJ9
11-28-2006, 04:38 PM
"F2A Buffalo in Action" by Jim Maas.
"Le Brewster Buffalo" by Jean-Louis Couston.
"Buffalos over Singapore" by Brian Cull and Mark Haselden.

Dutch publications covering (among others) Dutch Brewster operations:
"De Luchtstrijd rond Borneo"
"De Luchtstrijd om IndiŽ"
"Het Verlies van Java", all by P.C. Boer. None have been translated into English unfortunately, though the first two contain brief summaries in English and Bahasa Indonesia. "Het Verlies van Java" was published this year and should still be available, the other two date from the late 1980s, are long out of print and are as scarce as hen's teeth.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

The KNIL is dead. Long live the KNIL!

woofiedog
11-29-2006, 01:54 AM
From an old post... Flying the Brewster Buffalo... Interview with Capt. Gordon Firebaugh

Links:
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/186...831047505#9831047505 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/1861093505?r=9831047505#9831047505)

http://www.warbirdforum.com/casius.htm
http://www.warbirdforum.com/dutch.htm
http://www.warbirdforum.com/notable.htm<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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DeerHunterUK
11-29-2006, 05:04 AM
This interview with Boyington about the Buffalo always makes me chuckle.
http://www.warbirdforum.com/pappy.htm<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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No43_Moggy
In memory of 'The Few'
The Tangmere Pilots - http://www.tangmerepilots.co.uk/

GoToAway
11-29-2006, 06:55 AM
Originally posted by DeerHunterUK:
This interview with Boyington about the Buffalo always makes me chuckle.
http://www.warbirdforum.com/pappy.htm Yeah, I've included that quote. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif That site is a great source of info and I've been using it.

As for the Stenman books, thanks for the suggestion. I have 2 and dug through them. According to them, the Finnish (Brewster) total was 478:19.

GoToAway
11-29-2006, 07:05 AM
This is my works cited page if anybody's intereted:

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">Works Cited

Heliopause
11-29-2006, 07:17 AM
I tranlated Dutch text from the book "Airwar over Borneo". It involves some Brewster action.
Hope you guys enjoy http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif no kill ratio spotted i'm afraid...

On December 25th a Kawanishi H6K navy 97 flew over Tarakan airstrip at 300 meters height firing with al its guns at the planes below. Vonck and Berk were able to take-off but Vonck experienced technical difficulties and returned. Berk found the flying boot over the water and started his attack. One engine gave some smoke after a number of attacks. Berk?s plane was then hit by 2cm grenade in the left wing. Just before sea level Berk regained control over his fighter. The left wingtip pointed upwards about half a meter in length. The main spar had been hit. Berk nursed his plane back and made a successful landing.

Dec. 28th: Olsen was the first of five to take-off after an alarm came through around 10 am. As Olsen started to climb away, Zero?s appeared over the airstrip. After his wheels were locked 2 or 3 Zero?s bounced him and Olsen was shot down and killed. Second on take-off was vdg Wink. Wink fought a Zero then flew in a cloud. Coming out of the cloud he saw the belly of a Zero at which he fired on. The next cloud was quickly selected for cover.
3d on take-off Lt. Droog was shot down after a couple off minute?s dog fighting the Zero?s. Droog went missing. Sgt Haarlem was No.4 and ended up dog fighting Zero?s with Droog. Haarlem found cover in clouds.
As fifth on take-off Vonck?s plane was attacked during climb and Vonck bailed out after his stick was shot in half. During landing he got a sprained ankle.

On Jan 10th Glenn Martin bombers (6) and Brewster?s (2) attacked Japanese fleet at Tarakan island. Near the enemy fleet the Brewster pilots Benjamins and Berk attacked a floatplane (Mitsubishi F1M) which suddenly popped up near the bombers. They made one pass each and left it smoking from engine/fuselage. Due to fuel situation they flew back to Balikpapan. This instead of Tarakan airstrip which was closer but Benjamins thought it to be unsafe with Japanese so close to the island. Bombers went to Samarinda II airfield.

Jan 12th: From Balikpapan 4 Brewster?s were on stand-by. Some Japanese bombers were reported coming in from Samarinda. Lt Benjamins tried to intercept these planes realizing he could only get them on their way out. He succeeded although the weather was pretty bad. 4 Brewster?s attacked a G4M which suddenly popped up out of cloud. Smoking, the bomber flew into a rain shower and the Dutch pilots lost sight of it. Later Benjamins and his wingman Vonck came across a second G4M and immediately attacked. The enemy plane flew ever lower and after repeated attacks started to trail smoke. Due to the fuel situation the Dutch pilots returned to base leaving the bomber over open water. The other Brewster pilots (Wink and Berk) had landed some 15 minutes earlier, returning after they had lost the other Brewster?s in the cloudy weather.
One Brewster was hit in the tail by a 2cm shell and the plane Benjamins flew had two bullet holes from front towards back left and right of the pilots head!!

On January 18th Dutch Brewster?s (2-VL.G.V) left Singapore and 6 of them arrived at Samarinda II on the 21st. The remainder stayed at Semplak where pilots received medical treatment.

Jan 23rd: 6 Brewster?s flew as escort for the Glenn Martin bombers. Planned to bomb the fleet after the bombers, the Brewster?s attacked first (1700 hours). The error occurred because of the cloudy weather. The fighters flying below the clouds spotted the fleet first. Pilots Bruggink and Stoovť were able to drop their bombs on enemy ships. Brewster B398 (flown by Kap. Van Helsdingen) received light damage by enemy fire.

Jan 24th: A mission in the early morning comprised Glenn Martin bombers and Brewster?s fighters. Whilst bombing the Glenn?s saw Fighter planes at a lower altitude. It was the Brewster?s operating at a lower level. Some Brewster pilots received a shock as suddenly 300kg bombs whizzed by!! The Brewster pilots reported one transport ship being hit and breaking in two. After the bombing of the Glenn?s the Brewster pilots made their diving attack. This wasn?t easy as clouds and smoke sometimes took away a good view. Lt Rest placed one and Sgt De Waardt his two bombs on an enemy ship. The two pilots had started their dive under the cloud layer. A bit to low but they managed. 2Lt Hoyer had a hang-up as one of his 50kg bombs remained in place after the attack. His wingman vdg. Jolly informed him through hand signals. With the emergency system Hoijer was able to release the remaining bomb whilst diving towards an enemy ship. Both his bombs failed to hit a target. After reaching the coast through a rain shower he spotted enemy troops landing near the airfield of Manggar (not in use) and immediately made a strafing run.
The home base Samarinda II was strafed by Zero?s later in the morning.
A DC-3 (part of KNILM) had just left the airfield and was shot down by the enemy fighters.
Returning planes (Glenn?s) were warned and kept circling in the south until it was safe to land.
One zero was hit by ground fire and crashed. The plane was investigated by ground crew. It showed the 2 cannon and 2 machine guns. The radio compass and radio proved to be American build!! The US equipment was finished in 1941?.. Engine proved to be a twin row 14 cylinder radial of about 1000 to 1500 HP.
During the afternoon a number of Dutch bombers started a second bombing mission against the Japanese fleet. Through cloudy weather al but two bombers found the fleet and carried out their attack. The Brewster?s commenced an armed rec mission. They didn?t spot enemy troops but Van Rest?s group of 5 Brewster?s spotted 2 F1M floatplanes north of Samarinda. After dropping there bombs the Brewster?s attacked. After the first attack by Van Rest the floatplanes performed a spin towards sea level but were caught by Vonck and Berk. They assured that the enemy planes went into the water. 2 Brewster?s got hit by return fire from the back seater. Damage was slight.
A second strafing at the airfield by Zero?s took place at 1530hrs. Five of these attacked 3 Glenn?s which had just landed on the West end. Alerted Brewster?s took of from the east end but where bounced by two Zero?s. Funneman was shot during take off and De Waardt was shot down during the climb. Last pilot was Sgt Haarlem and he got tangled up with Zero?s at some 2000 meters height. Taking his plane into a spin he went to tree top height and flew straight towards a .50 defense gun waggling his wing. The ground gunners got the message and let the Brewster pass while opening fire at the Zero?s which followed. One of these pulled up immediately. (Japanese pilot got one in the chest and ditched his damaged plane near Japanese vessels, acc. Tainan Kokutai). The Brewster flown by De Waardt was found after a couple of days in the lake area to the east of Samarinda II. The pilot still strapped in his cockpit. Brewster flown by Funneman remained missing.

Jan 25: After an alert at around 9 o?clock in the morning 3 Brewster?s took off and intercepted enemy bombers at a height of 5000 meters.
Two groups of 9 G4M bombers were spotted of witch the second group were attacked. Although the difference in speed was minimal the Brewster?s made a couple of attacks. Results were not seen. Pilots where Lt Van Rest, Lt Benjamins and Sgt. Berk.
After 09:30 hrs enemy bombers where heard in the vicinity of the airfield and again 3 Brewster?s took off piloted by Van Helsdingen, vdg Jolly and kap. Van Rest. Although the bombers where engaged (at a height of 6500m) no results where seen.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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"Once (I think it was 31st aug. 1940), I was in a fight with four Hurricanes over Dover.
I was back over the channel when I saw another Hurricane coming from Calais, trailing white smoke, obviously in a bad way.
I flew up alongside him and escorted him all the way to England and waved goodbye.
A few weeks later the same thing happened to me.
That would never have happened in Russia - never". (Erich Rudorffer - 109 pilot)

GerritJ9
11-29-2006, 08:33 AM
Jim Maas lists the victory/combat loss ratio as about 2:1 in the KNIL Brewsters' favour, but I think this is slightly optimistic. Certainly many of the KNIL's Brewsters were caught at a disadvantage- during take-off, landing, heavily outnumbered etc. Some units were simply wasted, such as the detachment of four Brewsters based at Ambon to protect the RAAF Hudsons based there- they were quickly shot down by a vastly superior force of IJN aircraft and achieved nothing, rather similar to the Tarakan detachment. 71 Brewsters were delivered to the NEI which was simply nowhere enough to cover all vital areas of the NEI adequately. Non-combat-related losses made the situation worse (two occasions of engine failure over water, resulting in the loss of both pilots and aircraft). As Capt. Pieter Tideman said, "Our problem was not an inferior aircraft but simply that we did not have enough of them".<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

The KNIL is dead. Long live the KNIL!

GerritJ9
11-29-2006, 08:36 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by GerritJ9:
Jim Maas lists the victory/combat loss ratio as about 2:1 in the KNIL Brewsters' favour, but I think this is slightly optimistic. Certainly many of the KNIL's Brewsters were caught at a disadvantage- during take-off, landing, heavily outnumbered etc. Some units were simply wasted, such as the detachment of four Brewsters based at Ambon to protect the RAAF Hudsons based there- they were quickly shot down by a vastly superior force of IJN aircraft and achieved nothing, rather similar to the Tarakan detachment. 71 Brewsters were delivered to the NEI which was simply nowhere enough to cover all vital areas of the NEI adequately. Non-combat-related losses made the situation worse (two occasions of engine failure over water, resulting in the loss of both pilots and aircraft). As Capt. Pieter Tideman said, "Our problem was not an inferior aircraft but simply that we did not have enough of them".
The RAF's situation in Malaya was rather similar- imagine defending a country the size of England with only four squadrons and no proper early warning system.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

The KNIL is dead. Long live the KNIL!

woofiedog
11-29-2006, 11:49 PM
Heliopause... Thank's for taking the time to translate and posting the above article. Excellent reading material.

Thank's

Link: http://www.michaelmcfadyenscuba.info/viewpage.php?page_id=386<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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woofiedog
11-30-2006, 12:03 AM
Quote...

Heliopause Posted Nov 18, 1:17 PM

Here is some info regarding Dutch Buffaloes from a Dutch book.

Losses of Dutch Brewster Buffaloes
(VL.G = Airplane Group)

December 4 1-VL.G.IV
Sgt. A.C. van Bers
Missing on flight Kendari ? Ambon
due to bad weather

December 19 1- VL.G.V
Sgt. W.E. Wessels
Accident during emergency landing
near Samarinda, whilst flying back from Miri to Samarinda II

December 28 1- VL.G.V
Tlt J.N. Droog
Shot down by Zero?s over Tarakan island

December 28 1- VL.G.V
Vdg G. Olsen Shot down by Zero?s over Tarakan island

December 28 1- VL.G.V
Vdg C.A. Vonck Shot down by Zero?s over Tarakan island

December 28 1- VL.G.V
destroyed during strafing on Tarakan airfield (was already damaged in an landing accident)

Dec. 30 (ca.) 1-VL.G.IV
Vdg J. Brouwer
Written-off after tangling up with blockade during landing on Ambon II

January ? 3-VL.G.IV
Sgt. H. Huys
During formation flying collided with wingman. Successful landing in rice paddy.

Jan. 6 (ca.) 2-VL.G.V
Vdg. J.H.A. Ellecom
Crashed during take-off fromPalembang. Pilot heavily wounded.
(frame B3108)

January 10 1-VL.G.V
Frame fell in enemy hands whilst aboard
cargoship Baynan at Tarakan island

January 12 2-VL.G.V
Tlt. A.G. Deibel
Shot down by Zero?s over Singapore

January 13 1-VL.G.IV
Elt. F.E. Broers
Shot down by Zero?s over Ambon

January 13 1-VL.G.IV
Sgt. W.J. Blans
Shot down by Zero?s over Ambon

January 15 2-VL.G.V
Sgt. A. Voorbij
Landed at sea near Biliton after
engine failure

January 15 2-VL.G.V
Vdg. F. Swarts
Shot down over Singapore by Zero?s


January 17 3-VL.G.V
Vdg. W. v. Buuren
In bad weather collided with
mountain in Tjikalong Wetan pass.

January 17 3-VL.G.V
Vdg.R.Hoogenhuizen
In bad weather collided with
mountain in Tjikalong Wetan pass.

January 22 3-VL.G.IV
Sgt. H.C. Voorn Crashed during take off.
Plane burned.

January 22 3-VL.G.IV
Elt. R.A. Sleeuw
Over turned during landing.

January 23 2-VL.G.V
Vdg. R.A. Rothcrans
Didn?t return after attack on Jap fleet
near Balikpapan

January 24 1-VL.G.V
Vdg. Th.W. Kurz
Shot down by Zero?s at Samarinda II

January 24 1-VL.G.V
Sgt. Th.J. de Waardt
Shot down by Zero?s at Samarinda II

January 25 1-VL.G.V
Frame damaged beyond repair during
attack at Samarinda II (Zero?s)

January 28 1-VL.G.V
Damaged beyond repair during
attack at Samarinda II by Zero?s (frame B3159)

January 28 1-VL.G.
Damaged beyond repair during
attack at Samarinda II by Zero?s(frame B3126)

January 29 1-VL.G.V
Sgt. A. Berk
Crashed in bad weather at Kendal on
route Perak-Semplak

February 5 1-VL.G.V
Used for spare parts after being
damaged by Jap attack at
Samarinda II

February 9 3-VL.G.IV
Sgt. H. Huys
Moments before take off at Tjililitan
shot at by Zero?s and burnt out.

February 9 3-VL.G.IV
Vdg. C. Weynschenk
Shot down during take off at
Tjililitan.

February 9 3-VL.G.IV Sgt. J. Berk Shot down near Tjililitan by Zero?s

February 9 3-VL.G.IV - 4 planes on ground wrecked by
attack on airfield Tjililitan<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Heliopause
11-30-2006, 01:47 AM
Thanks Woofiedog my pleasure.
I'll work on another Dutch book aswell (Loss of Java-a matter of airpower) to give some extra info on Dutch Brewster action.
Dutch pilots mostly spoke about engaging Navy "0"'s when they saw japenese fighters but in reallity it where mostly Ki-43's over Java. In some cases Dutch pilots where able to damage an enemy plane (they saw pieces falling of or fuel leaking away) but couldn't be shure if it crashed below as clouds took away a view or they had to fight other enemy fighters. The armament of the Brewster didn't flame a japenese plane as would often happen later in the war with bigger caliber guns. Captured Dutch pilots had to burn their logbook and other records so any info known comes from research after the war .

Some info from the internet:
"In the case of the Brewster Pilots of the Dutch Netherlands East Indies Air Force it has been mentioned that the Dutch pilots claimed about 55 enemy aircraft destroyed for the lost of 30 aircraft in combat. But a complete listing of all their claims has not been published to the knowledge of the author to better document the claim victories of the following notable Dutch pilots.

KAPT. JACOB.P.VAN HELSDINGEN 3 victories 2-VIG-V KIA March 7, 1942 Known Claims:
January 12, 1942 1 Ki-27

LT. AUGUST. G. DEIBEL 3 victories 2-VIG-V WIA January 12, 1942; WIA February 19, 1942 Known Claims:
January 12, 1942 2 Ki-27's
Later KIFA June 12, 1950 in the Netherlands.

LT. GERARDUS. M. BRUGGINK 2 victories 2-VIG-V Known Claims:
January 12, 1941 1 Ki-27

KAPT. ANDRIAS. A. M. VAN REST 2 victories 1-VIG-V<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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"Once (I think it was 31st aug. 1940), I was in a fight with four Hurricanes over Dover.
I was back over the channel when I saw another Hurricane coming from Calais, trailing white smoke, obviously in a bad way.
I flew up alongside him and escorted him all the way to England and waved goodbye.
A few weeks later the same thing happened to me.
That would never have happened in Russia - never". (Erich Rudorffer - 109 pilot)

GoToAway
11-30-2006, 10:10 PM
Some interesting info here.

Thanks.

Heliopause
12-01-2006, 08:40 AM
ok here goes, another translated piece:

Java:
On Feb. 19th the first Japanese attack on West-Java took place. Brewster?s of 2-VL.G.V where directed towards Batavia (Djakarta) from their base at Tjisaoek. (Hurricanes of 488 and 232 Sq?s already in the air from Tjililitan.) At 08:40 hrs 5 Ki 48 bombers with 19 Ki 43?s as top cover attacked the airfield Semplak. Brewster?s made contact with this force when the Japanese where on their way out. The Dutch pilots saw smoke columns rise from Semplak while they climbed in the direction of Batavia. At an altitude of about 2000m the Japanese where spotted at an altitude ranging from 2500m to 3000m. A group of some 15 Ki 43?s came towards the Dutch fighters staying some 500m higher for a number of minutes. The Dutch pilots stopped climbing in order to pick-up speed and
later slightly turned to make a more favorable position when the Ki 43?s attacked.
In the following dog-fights which lasted some 15 minutes 4 Brewster?s where shot down. vdg. Kuijper and his wingman sgt. Groot attacked 3 enemy planes and quickly started a dive to get away. Before picking up enough speed, they were shot at by three other Ki-43?s. They probably received bullets al over their side fuselage and were killed instantly as the two Brewster?s stayed in their dive and crashed at the estuary of the river Tjisedane. (witnessed by ground troops). vdg Pelder had to quickly leave the air battle after receiving hits in fuel tank and fuel lines. He managed to return to Tjisaoek where he made a belly landing.
Deibel had his two wing guns stuck after firing a few rounds and with his fuselage guns managed to fire at a ?Navy 0? twice. After some 10 minutes, his plane was pretty damaged and he performed an emergency landing at Semplak. This wasn?t easy as the Brewster had lost some rudder parts. On approach, the smoke-filled sky took away a good view but Deibel succeeded to land on the third approach between the craters. His cockpit hood was stuck and he got out with the help of ground personnel. Afterwards ground crew found the steering cables almost broken in some places. Deibel had al the luck in the world. He wasn?t allowed to fly for 14 days as he needed medical treatment. (A .50 bullet blew up near his face whilst in the dog-fight. Splinter fragments where removed in the hospital as much as possible.)
Sgt. ?t Hart had to jump after some 13 minutes when his left fuel tank got hit. He fired a bit to long at a ?Navy 0?. He saw pieces of the enemy plane come off. With burning wounds, he landed by parachute near the town of Paroeng, 2 km from Tjisaoek.
vdg. Scheffer also bailed out around the same time after being hit in the oil system and noticing a burning smell in the cockpit. He claimed an enemy plane shot down and one damaged. Hoijer, Jolly and Bruggink landed with little or no damage to their planes on Tjisaoek. Al 3 had fired at enemy fighters but results were not seen.
1-VL.G.V was stationed at Andir and its Brewster?s where at the ready for any alarm coming in. After a number of alarms being cancelled or finding no enemy planes in the designated area the Brewster?s where scrambled at 15:30 hrs to intercept Japanese planes. The 12 Brewster?s took off to the south of Bandoeng and climbed to 3500m. Three
CW-21 Interceptors (also from Andir) joined and in total 15 Dutch fighters climbed whilst circling Bandoeng. From 4000m, they spotted Japanese bombers attacking the Andir airfield. The CW-21?s where called back to attack the bombers at Andir. After a couple of minutes, the Brewster?s saw two groups of enemy fighters. One group slightly higher and the other lower. Pilot Van Rest?s patrol took a dive towards the lower group at his 2 o?clock position and patrols De Haas and Tideman turned towards the higher-flying enemy planes at their 9 o?clock position. Within 10 minutes, three Brewster?s where lost. The Japanese managed to keep their 3 man vics in order while the Dutch formations fell apart into two?s or single planes. De Haas and Tukker surprised two Ki-43?s but where overwhelmed by other enemy fighters. After the first burst with his guns they remained firing as they got stuck. De Haas took to his parachute. Tukker received wounds and bailed out on his way back to base. Dropping in a river he was rescued by villagers but died later of his wounds. Sgt. Van Daalen also bailed out receiving burning wounds but surviving. Simons got a nice opportunity when an enemy plane hung in an ?Immelman?.
Throttling back quickly he fired at the enemy fighter into its wing and fuselage. Pieces came off and fuel started leaking. Tideman fired at three different enemy planes but could not see any results. One of the first planes he fired at had a wingman that quickly fired at Tideman. Shot in his right wing he saw a whole in the plating.
Pilot J.P. Adam wrote: ?We where outnumbered 3 to 1 so it was a matter of jumping from one enemy plane to the other. On my own, I chased two japs but lost them suddenly. Now three enemy planes chased me. The only way to escape the situation was by going down..? Climbing after the dive the airspace was empty.
Van Rest gave the order to withdraw after some 10 minutes but not every pilot heard him.
He landed with three other pilots on Kalidjati. Five pilots continued the fight and after an other 10 minutes of dog fighting, the Japanese planes started to leave the scene in a northerly direction. Remaining pilots where Tideman, Simons, Benjamins, Van Kempen and Adam. Simons received a ?probable? after debriefing and his victory was confirmed in the evening when a message got through from ground troops who had witnessed the crash and burning of the Japanese plane. The 59th Sentai lost one of its experienced pilots: Adj. Koshio Yamaguchi. A second enemy plane didn?t make it home for sure as coastguard personnel witnessed a smoking Japanese fighter plane crashing into the sea of the coast of Batavia.
Three Cw-21?s arrived to late to aid the Brewster?s as they where first directed to Japanese bombers.
(After the surrender, Tideman was questioned by the officer of the 3rd Hiko Shudan about the air battle and this man refused to believe that there had only been 12 Brewster?s and later just 5!! The Japanese units lost a bit of confidence during this stiff battle).
For the Dutch it was a sad day since seven Brewster?s and three of its pilots where lost. Two pilots were seriously wounded. The pilots also noticed the amount of punishment the Brewster could take and some even reported that they could turn a bit tighter than the enemy fighters could.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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"Once (I think it was 31st aug. 1940), I was in a fight with four Hurricanes over Dover.
I was back over the channel when I saw another Hurricane coming from Calais, trailing white smoke, obviously in a bad way.
I flew up alongside him and escorted him all the way to England and waved goodbye.
A few weeks later the same thing happened to me.
That would never have happened in Russia - never". (Erich Rudorffer - 109 pilot)

Heliopause
12-02-2006, 07:48 AM
Well those who are interested, just hit "copy" and "paste"!!

On Feb 20th Brewster's where up in the air but in the wrong sector they didn't make contact with the enemy.

Feb 21st: around 10:30 hrs the fighters where scrambled at Andir to intercept incoming Japanese planes reported by observers near Batavia. In 2Ĺ minutes the Brewster?s where airborne climbing initially towards the east. Three CW-21?s joined during the climb. At 6000m the Dutch fighters flew a heading towards Andir. They saw enemy fighters approaching Andir from the northeast at a lower altitude. (Japanese bombers where attacking Kalidjati). Between the high cumuli, the Brewster?s dove down to attack. Tideman wrote in 1946: ?engaging over Oedjoeng Broeng. Broke formation with a diving attack, short dogfight and repelled enemy attack?. A Japanese report said: ?The Kato Sentai met an enemy squadron over Bandung but recognized the superiority of the bullet-proof American aircraft. They persistently attacked our force from a higher altitude but finally the Sentai escaped to safety?.
One enemy plane didn?t make it home as it collided with the Brewster piloted by sgt. Adam. The unknown Japanese pilot died in the crash while Adam successfully bailed out. Adam wrote: ?Suddenly a "Navy 0" (KI-43) came towards me in a slow roll. From a close distance we fired at each other then breaking away. Again, the pilots attacked head on and with a loud bang the wingtips of both planes hit. The Ki-43 lost a wing and went down out of control crashing below. Adam saw that his right wingtip was missing, a length of about a meter. Diving to disengage, his flyable Brewster went into a spin. Not able to get it out of the spin Adam climbed on his seat to bail out. He was pressed down by the slipstream, half outside the cockpit. Later he got out; unconsciously he had pulled the ripcord.
Tideman was able to hit a fighter over Tjitjalenka, which started to dive straight down trailing smoke. It disappeared in the clouds below. Bejamins thought that he got some good hits on an enemy plane but one or two enemy planes hit his Brewster. Van Kempen fired at an opponent and started climbing again to regain height. He wrote: ?to my utmost surprise an enemy plane flew next to me climbing as well. We looked at each other. He passed me triumphantly?. The Japanese fighter then turned and attacked from above. To get an aim Van Kempen had to pull his fighters nose upwards. Both planes fired at the same time. Van Kempen went into a spin. It felt as if the Brewster lost 3000m going almost vertical. Climbing again, there where no fighters to be seen. After landing, at Andir, Kempen had one bullet hole in his wing.
Flying back to base individual or in small groups, pilots Tideman, Simons and Benjamins flew back together and cruised between the clouds waiting for the all clear signal. Suddenly Simons saw an enemy fighter closing in on Tideman. He tried to warn him. Benjamins flying third also started to receive hits. Two Ki-43?s had sneaked up on the three Dutch fighters. Tideman received hits in wings and cockpit his armor plate stopping some rounds. Tideman dived and got ready to bail out as a fire had started. In the dive, the fire went out and Tideman was able to land at base. Benjamins wrote: ?Suddenly I felt and heard bullets hitting in the rear fuselage and smelt gunpowder?.
Benjamins pressed his fighter in a steep spin. (putting everything ?left front?: throttle forward-stick left forward-left foot front). During recovery, he noticed his attacker in a right turn above him. Bejamins used his speed to cut him of and fired a couple of times. In the vicinity of Poerwakarta he let go the chase because of his fuel situation. During approach he ran out of fuel and glided straight in towards a hangar. As the main tires proved to be shot, the Brewster came to a quick stop. Luckily the plane didn?t nose over during the heavy braking. The Japanese pilots where from the 64 Sentai: Cmd Tateo Kato with his wingman Yohei Hinoki.
A Japanese report wrote: ?Later the Sentai found 4 enemy fighters over Bandung and tried to storm them. Because of the clouds the Sentai was not able to confirm the results. We shot down one fighter in a surprise attack?.?
The one fighter going down was a CW-21 ?interceptor? flown by Lt Dekker.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b334/PauseHelio/fokker_now.jpg
"Once (I think it was 31st aug. 1940), I was in a fight with four Hurricanes over Dover.
I was back over the channel when I saw another Hurricane coming from Calais, trailing white smoke, obviously in a bad way.
I flew up alongside him and escorted him all the way to England and waved goodbye.
A few weeks later the same thing happened to me.
That would never have happened in Russia - never". (Erich Rudorffer - 109 pilot)

woofiedog
12-02-2006, 10:55 PM
Extremely Mint reading material.

Again Thank's for these Translations from this forgotten part of WWII.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Heliopause
12-03-2006, 09:39 AM
These stories are new to me aswell, very mint!!

Feb 22nd: weather was bad this day and the English radar posts on the north and south part of Java where not operational yet. A lot of ships where in the harbor of Batavia. (some British ships stranded there instead of reaching Singapore and Dutch ships carrying evacuees and military from Sumatra). Around noon, Japanese planes bombed Kemajoran and Semplak airfields. ?A flight? of 605 Sq was in the air and directed towards the enemy planes. Due to fuel situation these Hurricanes had to give up the chase and they returned to Tjililitan. (?A Flight? Flown by New Zealand pilots of 488Sq).
In the afternoon other planes where up in the air but no other attacks followed.

Feb 23rd: After reports of enemy scout planes flying near Batavia harbor, Hurricanes where scrambled to intercept. the Pair Young and Dovell saw a floatplane and Young managed to get strikes on the enemy plane from a great distance. The now smoking Japanese plane turned and flew straight towards Young?s Hurricane. Barely missing each other?s plane the Japanese plane vanished. Although no attacks where carried out this day over west-Java one Brewster was lost. vdg Busser flew a training flight after an illness. Upon landing he ran into a Glenn Martin bomber wrecking his fighter. He was quickly posted to an other unit.

Feb 24th: Brewster?s (3) from Semplak and Tjisaoek went to Andir to operate with Brewsters already stationed there. Three Brewster?s remained due to maintenance carried out by ground crew. Around 08:50hrs an alarm came through to intercept Japanese planes coming to Bandoeng from the North. Six Brewster?s and three Interceptors took off *.
After gaining height, 4 Brewster?s and the 3 Interceptors ran into 9 Japanese fighters flying at the same height. Charging into each other a dog fight started between the high cumuli. Brewster?s had half full wing tanks and 2/3 full ammunition for the wing guns. This to give it a good turning ability. In addition, there was the first use of tracers, which increased shooting accuracy. Some Dutch pilots came in good firing positions but results where not seen. Pilot Haarlem claimed an enemy plane afterwards, hitting a plane it went down as if out of control. Sgt Compaan took hits in the fuel tank and made an emergency landing at Pameungpeuk. The fight lasted 5 to 10 minutes then the Japanese disengaged.
The remaining 2 Brewster?s took off a little later and made contact with 5 Japanese fighters. Bruggink fired at an enemy but his guns stopped firing after a few seconds. His plane received light damage. Jolly?s plane took no hits.

*(The Dutch where now aware that there where two types of fighter planes used by the Japanese. After checking the wreckage of downed planes, it was now ok for CW-21?s to engage enemy fighters over west-Java since only the Zero had fearful 20mm canon and this plane operated mainly over east-Java)

RAF planes where also scrambled to attack enemy scout planes near Batavia. Plt Off Campbell from 605 Sq claimed one of these. He probably attacked the CW-21 flown by van der Vossen who made an emergency landing at Kemajoran after being attacked by several Hurricanes.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b334/PauseHelio/fokker_now.jpg
"Once (I think it was 31st aug. 1940), I was in a fight with four Hurricanes over Dover.
I was back over the channel when I saw another Hurricane coming from Calais, trailing white smoke, obviously in a bad way.
I flew up alongside him and escorted him all the way to England and waved goodbye.
A few weeks later the same thing happened to me.
That would never have happened in Russia - never". (Erich Rudorffer - 109 pilot)

Heliopause
12-04-2006, 01:40 AM
One of the Dutch Pilots was Gerard Bruggink. Together with three other pilots he flew the last Brewster mission shortly before the surrender on march 7th.

Bruggink in his cockpit at Singapore. Picture taken by RAF.
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b334/PauseHelio/BrugginkSinga.jpg

December 1941, Singapore. Dutch Brewster Buffalo's from 2-VL.G.V. Bruggink is third from right on wing. Comm Van Helsdingen in the middle with the mascotte "scull and bones".
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b334/PauseHelio/2VL.jpg

Bruggink left Dutch East Indies in 1950. Emigrating to the US in 1955 he had a roll in the National Transportation Safety Board. He died last year on dec 5th in Alabama. Buried in Skipperville.
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b334/PauseHelio/Bruggink.jpg <div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b334/PauseHelio/fokker_now.jpg
"Once (I think it was 31st aug. 1940), I was in a fight with four Hurricanes over Dover.
I was back over the channel when I saw another Hurricane coming from Calais, trailing white smoke, obviously in a bad way.
I flew up alongside him and escorted him all the way to England and waved goodbye.
A few weeks later the same thing happened to me.
That would never have happened in Russia - never". (Erich Rudorffer - 109 pilot)

GerritJ9
12-04-2006, 09:30 AM
The Brewster in the pic, taken at Kallang, is B-3111. Shown are most of the pilots and ground crew of 2-Vl.G-V (Sgt. Ed Stoovť had the day off and was absent when the pic was taken). The skull in the pic received the nickname "Hein de Bruin" and was apparently found during excavation works- probably very old. It was lost later on with one of 2-Vl.G-V's Brewsters (details to follow).<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

The KNIL is dead. Long live the KNIL!

GerritJ9
12-09-2006, 10:15 AM
Platypus- enjoy the book, if you are like me you won't be able to put it down until you have finished it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif!!! It is short on photos http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif, but very well written.

Anybody else interested in the skin for B-3114? I will throw in a skin for B-3110 as a bonus!<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

The KNIL is dead. Long live the KNIL!

Platypus_1.JaVA
12-09-2006, 04:45 PM
Pop in at www.1java.org (http://www.1java.org) and the forum some time!<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge,
ye shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be measured
to you again.

http://www.f19vs.se/fokker_now.jpg

woofiedog
12-16-2006, 06:24 AM
I find very interesting is that the Bewsters where used on bombing run's.

<span class="ev_code_YELLOW"> Brewster?s dropped their bombs and after that all planes conducted strafing.</span>

Also... got a Chuckle out of this...

<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">His fellow pilots Van Kempen and Compaan were bounced by 2 or 3 enemy planes. Van Kempen?s radio mast was shot off. Both pilots quickly flew into cloud cover. Tideman was able to hit the enemy fighter a couple off times during the dog fight but his own plane received damage as well. After some 6 minutes, Tideman dove down hoping to attract the Japanese fighter in diving down with him. *Tideman knew the hills in this area. The Japanese fighter plane however didn?t follow.*</span>

Japanese pilots... a bit afraid to get down low! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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GerritJ9
12-16-2006, 11:57 AM
Tideman tried to lure the Ki-43 down with the intention of using his knowledge of the terrain to his advantage and getting the Ki-43 to fly into the local "scenery", or otherwise to manoeuvre himself into a position to shoot the Japanese down. The Japanese did not swallow the bait, however- perhaps he was low on fuel and had to fly back to Palembang, where the Ki-43s were based.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

The KNIL is dead. Long live the KNIL!

Heliopause
12-17-2006, 03:53 AM
Dutch buffalo "bombed up".
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/heliopause/Scannen0011.jpg <div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b334/PauseHelio/fokker_now.jpg
"Once (I think it was 31st aug. 1940), I was in a fight with four Hurricanes over Dover.
I was back over the channel when I saw another Hurricane coming from Calais, trailing white smoke, obviously in a bad way.
I flew up alongside him and escorted him all the way to England and waved goodbye.
A few weeks later the same thing happened to me.
That would never have happened in Russia - never". (Erich Rudorffer - 109 pilot)

woofiedog
12-17-2006, 06:31 AM
Found that the Brewster could handle...

Up to 262lb/105kg on two underwing hardpoints... each rated at 125lb.

http://www.warbirdforum.com/image003.jpg
Five Brewsters of the Second Afdeling, Vliegtuiggroep V (2-VlG-V) [Afdeling = Squadron, Vliegtuig group = Aircraft Group] ready for a demonstration on a propaganda day of the Vrijwillig Vlieger Corps [Volunteer Flyer Corps] at Cililitan (Batavia), July 1941. (Photo Sectie Luchtmacht Historie, Royal Neth. A.F.)

http://www.warbirdforum.com/image004.gif
Sergeant-pilot Theo de Waardt of 1-VlG-V at Singkawang, East Borneo, shortly after war with Japan broke out. His Buffalo was not yet fitted with an armor plate behind the seat and no reflector gun sight. He wears a loose set of headphones and does not have a microphone in the oxygen mask. (Photo J.Schellekens via Casius)

http://www.warbirdforum.com/image005.jpg
The last twenty ML-KNIL 339-23 Buffaloes with the longer fuselage, in the snow at the Brewster plant, early 1942. the Solar exhausts were delayed and the aircraft were shipped to Australia uncompleted. The Aviodrome in Lelystad has recently purchased some remnants of three of these Buffaloes. (Brewster photo, Sectie Luchtmacht Historie)

http://www.warbirdforum.com/image006.jpg
One of the NEI Buffaloes captured by the Japanese on Java was put on display in Tokyo as a war trophy. In the background, difficult to see, is also a captured Boeing B-17C Flying Fortress. (Photo Sectie Luchtmacht Historie, Royal Neth. A.F.).

http://www.warbirdforum.com/buffinstruments.jpg
Here are Brewster Buffalo fuel gauges, among the bits & pieces recently acquired by the Dutch aviation museum, the NLTP Aviodrome in Lelystad, Holland. (kindness of Bas Kreuger)
Link: http://www.warbirdforum.com/dutchbuf.htm

http://www.geocities.com/dutcheastindies/Dutch_10.jpg
A Dutch Glenn Martin bomber is loaded with British bombs during the type's service in the Far East.

http://www.j-aircraft.com/captured/capturedby/f2abuffalo/buffalo_capdutch.jpg
See photo above of a whole squadron of Dutch Buffaloes captured. Add to these the RAF and RAAF Buffaloes captured in Malaya and the IJAAF could have fielded an entire Hiko Sentai.

Link: http://www.j-aircraft.com/captured/capturedby/f2abuffalo/captured_buffalo.htm

Link Brewster Buffalo production list/compiled by Jos Heyman : http://www.warbirdforum.com/buffcns.htm

318 339-18 C/n 318 [Notes 1 and 31]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-396 [Note 8]. Test flown as NX3180 [Note 21]. Moved to Ngoro on 26 Feb 42 [Note 37] and destroyed in Mar 42 [Note 22]. Alternatively w/o 17 Jan 1942 as Cikalong [Note 40].
319 339-18 C/n 319 [Notes 1 and 31]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-397 [Note 8]. Fate unknown [Note 10].
320 339-18 C/n 320 [Notes 1 and 31]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-398 [Note 8]. W/o Semplak, 19 Feb 1942 [Note 37].
321 339-18 C/n 321 [Notes 1 and 31]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-399 [Note 8]. W/o 7 Jan 42 at Kallang [Note 38].
322 339-18 C/n 322 [Notes 1 and 31]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3100 [Note 8]. W/o 12 Jan 1942 at Singapore [Note 40].
323 339-18 C/n 323 [Notes 1 and 31]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3101 [Note 8]. Still flying on 24 Feb 42 [Note 37]. W/o 7 Mar 42 at Andir [Note 43].
324 339-18 C/n 324 [Notes 1 and 31]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3102 [Note 8]. Fate unknown [Note 10].
325 339-18 C/n 325 [Notes 1 and 31]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3103 [Note 8]. W/o Andir, 19 Feb 1942 [Note 37].
326 339-18 C/n 326 [Notes 1 and 31]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3104 [Note 8]. W/o Udjong Brung, 21 Feb 1942 [Note 37].
327 339-18 C/n 327 [Notes 1 and 31]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3105 [Note 8]. W/o 15 Jan 1942 near Billiton [Note 40].
328 339-18 C/n 328 [Notes 1 and 31]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3106 [Note 8]. Fate unknown [Note 10].
329 339-18 C/n 329 [Notes 1 and 31]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3107 [Note 8]. W/o Andir, 23 Feb 1942 [Note 37].
330 339-18 C/n 330 [Notes 1 and 31]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3108 [Note 8]. W/o 6 Jan 1942 at Palembang I [Note 40].
331 339-18 C/n 331 [Notes 1 and 31]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3109 [Note 8]. Fate unknown [Note 10].
332 339-18 C/n 332 [Notes 1 and 31]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3110 [Note 8]. Fate unknown [Note 10].
333 339-18 C/n 333 [Notes 1 and 31]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3111 [Note 8]. Fate unknown [Note 10].
334 339-18 C/n 334 [Notes 1 and 31]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3112 [Note 8]. Fate unknown [Note 10].
335 339-18 C/n 335 [Notes 1 and 31]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3113 [Note 8]. Fate unknown [Note 10].
336 339-18 C/n 336 [Notes 1 and 31]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3114 [Note 8]. Captured by Japan on 9 Mar 1942 [Note 40].
337 339-18 C/n 337 [Notes 1 and 31]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3115 [Note 8]. Moved to Ngoro on 26 Feb 42 [Note 37] and destroyed in Mar 42 [Note 22]. Alternatively w/o 23 Jan 1942 near Balikpapan [Note 40].
338 339-18 C/n 338 [Notes 1 and 31]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3116 [Note 8]. Fate unknown [Note 10].
339 339-18 C/n 339 [Notes 1 and 31]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3117 [Note 8]. Moved to Ngoro on 26 Apr 42 [Note 37] and written off on 7 Mar 42 [Notes 22 and 41].
340 339-18 C/n 340 [Notes 1 and 31]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3118 [Note 8]. Fate unknown [Note 10].
341 339-18 C/n 341 [Notes 1 and 31]. Was to go to ML-KNIL, probably as B-3119 [Note 8]. Not delivered and used by USAAF with tail code 3119 [Photo]. Also shown on a photo with civilian registration NX341B, ML-KNIL serial B339 on the fuselage and 3119 on the wing edge. Photo was a Curtiss Wright photo and is believed to have been 'doctored' [Note 34 and 35]
342 339-18 C/n 342 [Notes 1 and 31]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3120 [Note 8]. Fate unknown [Note 10].
343 339-18 C/n 343 [Notes 1 and 31]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3121 [Note 8]. Fate unknown [Note 10].
344 339-18 C/n 344 [Notes 1 and 31]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3122 [Note 8]. Written off 21 Feb 42 at Ciatar [Note 22].
345 339-18 C/n 345 [Notes 1 and 31]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3123 [Note 8]. Fate unknown [Note 10].
346 339-18 C/n 346 [Notes 1 and 31]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3124 [Note 8]. Fate unknown [Note 10].
347 339-18 C/n 347 [Notes 1 and 31]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3125 [Note 8]. Fate unknown [Note 10].
348 339-18 C/n 348 [Notes 1 and 31]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3126 [Note 8]. W/o 28 Jan 1942 at Samarinda II [Note 40].
349 339-18 C/n 349 [Notes 1 and 31]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3127 [Note 8]. Fate unknown [Note 10].
350 339-18 C/n 350 [Notes 1 and 31]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3128 [Note 8]. Fate unknown [Note 10].
351 339-18 C/n 351 [Notes 1 and 31]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3129 [Note 8]. Fate unknown [Note 10].
352 339-18 C/n 352 [Notes 1 and 31]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3130 [Note 8].
353 339-18 C/n 353 [Notes 1 and 31]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3131 [Note 8]. Fate unknown [Note 10].
354 339-18 C/n 354 [Notes 1 and 31]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3132 [Note 8]. W/o 24 Jan 1942 at Samarinda [Note 40].
355 339-18 C/n 355 [Notes 1 and 31]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3133 [Note 8]. Fate unknown [Note 10].
356 339-18 C/n 356 [Notes 1 and 31]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3134 [Note 8]. Fate unknown [Note 10].
357 339-18 C/n 357 [Notes 1 and 31]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3135 [Note 8]. Fate unknown [Note 10].
358 339-18 C/n 358 [Notes 1 and 31]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3136 [Note 8]. Fate unknown [Note 10].
359 339-18 C/n 359 [Notes 1 and 31]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3136 [Note 8]. Fate unknown [Note 10].
360 339-18 C/n 360 [Notes 1 and 31]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3138 [Note 8]. Fate unknown [Note 10].
361 339-18 C/n 361 [Notes 1 and 31]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3139 [Note 8]. Fate unknown [Note 10].
362 339-18 C/n 362 [Notes 1 and 31]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3140 [Note 8]. Fate unknown [Note 10].
363 339-18 C/n 363 [Notes 1 and 31]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3141 [Note 8]. Fate unknown [Note 10].
364 339-18 C/n 364 [Notes 1 and 31]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3142 [Note 8]. W/o Andir, 19 Feb 1942 [Note 37].
365 339-18 C/n 365 [Notes 1 and 31]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3143 [Note 8]. Fate unknown [Note 10].
366 339-18 C/n 366 [Notes 1 and 31]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3144 [Note 8]. Fate unknown [Note 10].
367 339-18 C/n 367 [Notes 1 and 31]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3145 [Note 8]. Fate unknown [Note 10].
368 339-18 C/n 368 [Notes 1 and 31]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3146 [Note 8]. Fate unknown [Note 10]
369 339-18 C/n 369 [Notes 1 and 31]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3147 [Note 8]. W/o Andir on 19 Feb 42 [Note 37]
370 339-18 C/n 370 [Notes 1 and 31]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3148 [Note 8]. Fate unknown [Note 10]
371 339-18 C/n 371 [Notes 1 and 31]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3149 [Note 8]. Fate unknown [Note 10]
372 339-18 C/n 372 [Notes 1 and 31]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3150 [Note 8]. Fate unknown [Note 10]
373 339-18 C/n 373 [Notes 1 and 31]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3151 [Note 8]. Fate unknown [Note 10]
374 339-18 C/n 374 [Notes 1 and 31]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3152 [Note 8]. Fate unknown [Note 10]
375 339-18 C/n 375 [Notes 1, 31 and 42]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3153 [Note 8]. Moved to Ngoro on 28 Feb 42 [Note 37] and destroyed in Mar 42 [Note 22].
376 339-18 C/n 376 [Notes 1 and 31]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3154 [Note 8]. Fate unknown [Note 10]
377 339-18 C/n 377 [Notes 1 and 31]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3155 [Note 8]. Fate unknown [Note 10]
378 339-18 C/n 378 [Notes 1 and 31]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3156 [Note 8]. W/o Andir on 19 Feb 42 [Note 37]
379 339-18 C/n 379 [Notes 1, 31 and 42]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3157 [Note 8]. Moved to Ngoro on 24 Feb 42 [Note 37] and destroyed in Mar 42 [Note 22].
380 339-18 C/n 380 [Notes 1 and 31]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3158 [Note 8]. Fate unknown [Note 10]
381 339-18 C/n 381 [Notes 1, 48 and 31]]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3159 [Note 8]. W/o 28 Jan 1942 at Samarinda II [Note 40]
382 339-18 C/n 382 [Notes 1, 48 and 31]]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3160 [Note 8]. Moved to Ngoro on 24 Feb 42 [Note 37] and destroyed in Mar 42 [Note 22].
383 339-18 C/n 383 [Notes 1, 48 and 31]]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3161 [Note 8]. Moved to Ngoro on 24 Feb 42 [Note 37] and destroyed in Mar 42 [Note 22].
384 339-18 C/n 384 [Notes 1, 48 and 31]]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3162 [Note 8]. To Australia in Mar 42 [Note 39] or repossessed in US [44]
385 339-18 C/n 385 [Notes 1, 48 and 31]]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3163 [Note 8]. To Australia in Mar 42 [Note 39] or repossessed in US [44]
386 339-18 C/n 386 [Notes 1, 48 and 31]]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3164 [Note 8]. To Australia in Mar 42 [Note 39] or repossessed in US [44]
387 339-18 C/n 387 [Notes 1, 48 and 31]]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3165 [Note 8]. To Australia in Mar 42 [Note 39] or repossessed in US [44]
388 339-18 C/n 388 [Notes 1, 48 and 31]]. To ML-KNIL, probably as B-3166 [Note 8]. To Australia in Mar 42 [Note 39] or repossessed in US [Note 44]<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v438/woofiedog/WOOFIEDOG.jpg

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woofiedog
12-17-2006, 07:07 AM
A bit more reading about the Nos. 243 and 488 Squadrons in the aerial battle for Singapore.

Link: http://www.nzetc.org/tm/scholarly/tei-WH2-2Epi-c4-WH2-2Epi-h.html

http://broadcast.illuminatedtech.com/pages/aircraft_feature/ump1.jpg
Photograph Courtesy of Australian War Memorial


Also...

IJN Seaplane Tender KAMIKAWA MARU

Link: http://www.combinedfleet.com/Kamikawa%20Maru_t.htm

11 December 1941:
Arrives at Camranh Bay, Indochina.

13 December 1941: Operation ?B? - The Invasion of British Borneo:
Covers the British Borneo Invasion Force with CruDiv 7?s KUMANO, SUZUYA, light cruisers YURA and KINU, DesDiv 11?s FUBUKI, DesDiv 12?s MURAKUMO, SHINONOME and SHIRAKUMO and DesDiv 20?s SAGIRI, subchaser CH-7 and minesweepers W-6 and W-7.

17 December 1941:
Miri, northern Borneo. Under KAMIKAWA MARU?s Air Officer, Cdr Miura Kintaro, her floatplanes provide air cover for the invasion landings.

N of Miri, near Seria. In the darkness, SHINONOME completes escorting the minesweeper W-7 and troop transport HIYOSHI MARU to this landing site. Just after dawn, steaming alone off shore, SHINONOME is attacked by Dutch Dornier Do-24 K-1 flying-boat X-32 of Aircraft Group GVT-7 based at Tarakan, E Borneo. Of five 200-kg bombs she drops, the X-32 scores two direct hits and a near-miss. An explosion severs SHINONOME's stern and she sinks quickly with all hands - the first FUBUKI-class destroyer sunk in WWII.

A Do-24 X-34 flying boat of GVT-7 attacks a vessel, but is intercepted by a Type O Mitsubishi F1M2 ?Pete? from KAMIKAWA MARU. The Dornier is forced to make an emergency landing with two of its crew dead. Two hours later, in bad weather conditions. Six Dutch Glenn Martin bombers of 2-VIG-I, also attack. A Pete from the KAMIKAWA MARU attacks the Dutch bomber formation, but they escape. [1]

The invasion force goes ashore almost unopposed at Miri, Seria and Lutong. The 2,500 men of MajGen Kawaguchi Kiyotake's "Kawaguchi Detachment" and the No. 2 Yokosuka Special Naval Landing Force (SNLF) quickly capture Miri's airfield and oil fields.

19 December 1941:
Miri. In the morning, Glenn Martin B-10 medium bombers from 1-VIG-I and 2-VIG-I based at Samarinda and Singkawang attack the invasion shipping. Four of KAMIKAWA MARU?s F1M2 ?Pete? floatplanes intercept separate trios of bombers that appear at 15-minute intervals. The Petes? pilots claim downing Glenn Martin M-571 of 2-VIG-I.

20 December 1941:
Miri. About midday, six Glenn Martins of 2-VIG-I escorted by two obsolete Brewster ?Buffalo? fighters attack Japanese shipping off Miri. The bomber crews miss a cruiser. F1M2s from KAMIKAWA MARU intercept and claim one bomber. The Buffaloes escape with heavy damage.

That same day, an E13A1 Jake from KAMIKAWA MARU fails to return from a reconnaissance mission.

23 December 1941:
Northern Borneo. F1M2s from KAMIKAWA MARU and Type 0 Mitsubishi A6Ms ?Zekes? of the 22nd Air Flotilla?s based at Miri patrol over a convoy. A Dutch Do-24 X-35 flying boat of GVT-1 based at Java is spotted shadowing the convoy. The Dornier is engaged and damaged by a Pete, but escapes and returns to Surabaya.

27 December 1941:
An F1M from KAMIKAWA MARU fails to return from a morning patrol. An E13A1 Jake is dispatched on a search and rescue mission, but finds nothing. While landing near KAMIKAWA MARU, the Jake capsizes and sinks.

Departs for Camranh Bay, Indo-China.

4 January 1942:
At Camrah Bay.

20 January 1942:
Off Singora/Patani, Thailand with tender SAGARA MARU. Provides air cover for a convoy of 11 transports that left Camranh for Singora and Patani carrying troops of the IJA's 18th Infantry Division.

1 February 1942:
The 12th Seaplane Tender Div is disbanded. KAMIKAWA MARU is assigned directly to the Third Fleet.

13 February 1942: The Invasion of Palembang, Sumatra.
Off Bangka Island with SAGARA MARU.

14 February 1942: Operation ?J? - The Invasion of Java, Netherlands East Indies:
Camranh Bay. KAMIKAWA MARU is in Vice Admiral Takahashi Ibo's (former CO of YAMASHIRO) Third Fleet, Southern Force, Netherlands East Indies Force. The Western Force under Vice Admiral Ozawa Jisaburo (former CO of HARUNA), together with an airborne assault, captures the oil refineries at Palembang, Sumatra.

KAMIKAWA MARU with the light cruisers NATORI and YURA and the seaplane tender SANYO MARU provide distant cover of the Western Java Seizure Force.

16 February 1942:
Java Sea, Muntok, Bangka Island. A detachment of F1M2 Petes from KAMIKAWA MARU and the SAGARA MARU are operating out of Bangka. Dutch Glenn Martin B-10s of the Java-based 3-VIG-III sortie to attack Japanese shipping in the Moesi River, Sumatra. During the afternoon, F1M2s and Ki-27s of the 1st Sentai intercept four twin-engined bombers over the shipping. One bomber is shot down in southern Sumatra. A Pete is also shot down and lands in the sea, 40 miles W of Muntok, but destroyer HATSUYUKI picks up the pilot and his observer.

1 March 1942:
KAMIKAWA MARU provides air cover for 56 invasion transports carrying the IJA?s 2nd Infantry Division.Ozawa?s Western Force lands troops at Bantam Bay, Merak and Ereten Wetan, Java.

In the morning, three of KAMIKAWA MARU's F1M2s and three of her E13As fly to Bantam Bay, Java. Two of the F1M2s go on to Eretan Wetan. Two Petes from SANYO MARU join them there. In the early afternoon, five Hawker ?Hurricanes? of 605 Squadron engage a lone Pete floatplane. After the combat, the Pete?s pilot claims three Hurricanes downed.

Later, that same day, a lone Hurricane finds two of KAMIKAWA MARU's F1M2s at anchor in Bantam Bay. The Hurricane, although under fire from IJN AA positions, strafes the Petes and sets one on fire while badly damaging the other.

3 March 1942:
Off Eretan Wetan, Java with SANYO MARU.

5 March 1942:
Troops of the IJA?s 2nd Infantry landed by Ozawa?s Western Force take the capital of Batavia, Java.

10 March 1942:
Reassigned to the Fourth Fleet at Rabaul.

And one more...

http://www.diggerhistory.info/images/air-recent/dornier-24.jpg

Dornier Do 24K. Built by Aviolanda in Holland for the Dutch East Indies Naval airforce, six survivors of some 30 original aircraft escaped to Australia early in 1942 and five were immediately impressed into RAAF service as A49-1 to 5. These aircraft were in poor condition when received, but served in the transport role with 41 Squadron, flying cargo into Goodenough Island, Milne Bay and Port Moresby. Two of them later served with 8 Communications Unit in the search and rescue role. The sixth machine escaped to Perth from a Japanese bombing raid on Broome and served the Dutch Intelligence Agency on clandestine flights to New Guinea until handed over to become A49-6 in RAAF colours in October, 1943. All aircraft were withdrawn from service and scrapped in November, 1944.

Link: http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-air-support/ww2-allied/raaf-others.htm<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v438/woofiedog/WOOFIEDOG.jpg

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Heliopause
12-18-2006, 08:12 AM
Thanks for the extra info woofiedog!!

Here some pics from a Do 24 taken in a Dutch museum.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b334/PauseHelio/DSC00854.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b334/PauseHelio/DSC00855.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b334/PauseHelio/DSC00856.jpg <div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b334/PauseHelio/fokker_now.jpg
"Once (I think it was 31st aug. 1940), I was in a fight with four Hurricanes over Dover.
I was back over the channel when I saw another Hurricane coming from Calais, trailing white smoke, obviously in a bad way.
I flew up alongside him and escorted him all the way to England and waved goodbye.
A few weeks later the same thing happened to me.
That would never have happened in Russia - never". (Erich Rudorffer - 109 pilot)

GerritJ9
12-18-2006, 10:10 AM
According to "De Luchtstrijd rond Borneo", "Shinonome" was sunk by Glenn Martin bombers, not a Do-24K. Several publications list her as sunk by a mine; at the time the Japanese were not certain as to what caused her loss. Since there were no survivors and aeroplanes had apparently not been seen by the other ships, it was assumed that she had hit a mine; this info was used during the Allied post-war assessment and subsequently found its way into the history books.
Which raises an interesting question: if "Shinonome" was sunk by Glenn Martins, what ship was attacked by the Do-24K? And, if the Dornier also sank a ship in the attack, which ship?<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

The KNIL is dead. Long live the KNIL!

woofiedog
12-18-2006, 11:40 AM
Found this article about the Shinonome.

Link: http://www.geocities.com/dutcheastindies/shinonome.html

Also...

Link: http://www.authorsden.com/categories/article_top.asp?catid=17&id=19648

News of the landing did not reach Air Headquarters, Far East, until 9 p.m. on the 16th. Reconnaissa
nce aircraft from Singkawang II were ordered to investigate at daylight on the 17th. Dutch naval aircraft attacked the ships at anchor later that day and again on the 18th, but without effect. On the 19th December 1941 the Dutch flying boat X-32 from Tarakan Island sank the Japanese destroyer Shinonome (Cdr. Hiroshi Sasagawa) of 1,950 tons off Miri, while another flying boat X-33 damages a transport ship.

The destroyer could not take the pounding and went down with her entire crew of 228 officers and men. Kuching realized that its turn was soon to come and work went on day and night to complete the airfield defenses. This work was delayed on the 19th by a raid on the town by fifteen Japanese bombers which set fire to a large petrol store but otherwise did little material damage. A large part of the native population however fled from the town, and labour, which had been difficult to obtain before, became almost unprocurable.

And one more...

Who sank the Shinonome ?



Introduction

Throughout the years, there has been some discussion about the fate of the Japanese destroyer Shinonome. She was lost near Miri, Borneo in on December 17 1941. This small paper is intended to summarize the cause and circumstances surrounding the loss of the Shinonome.

History

The destroyer Shinonome was a powerful ship, completed in 1927 as one of the Fubuki-class fleet destroyers. At the outbreak of war in the Pacific, she was under command of Commander Sasagawa Hiroshi. His ship had been assigned to Destroyer Division 12 under Commander Ogawa Nobuki, which was initially deployed as escort for the valuable troop transports steaming towards the shore of Malaya. On December 16, Shinonome left Camranh Bay for Miri, British Borneo, together with the other two ships of DesDiv 12 (Shirakumo and Murakumo), the light cruiser Yura, the seaplanetender Kamikawa Maru, a few subchasers and two minesweepers. Also present were destroyer Sagiri of DesDiv 20, and a cover force with two heavy cruisers (Kumano and Suzuya), a light cruiser (Kinu) and the destroyer Fubuki. The invasion fleet reached Miri in the night of 15 and 16 December, where the troops went ashore almost unopposed. The 2500 men were able to capture Miri without much delay.

The next day was far less comfortable for the Japanese. Word of the invasion had reached the Dutch HQ, after which the various airfields on Borneo were put on alert. An initial attack by Glenn Martin bombers was unsuccesful, but the flying boats of GVT-7 [1], stationed on Tarakan on the eastern coast, did far better. Both X-33 and X-34 missed (the latter was presumably shot down by a Japanese floatplane from Kamikawa Maru), but X-32 managed to drop 5 bombs of 200 kg each, scoring two hits and a near miss on a destroyer. The latter apparently did most of the damage, as the target immediately started to list, and fires broke out aboard. A few minutes later, the waves closed over the Shinonome and her entire complement.

The controversy

After the war, a committee was formed to assess the casualties the Allied naval and airforces had inflicted to the Japanese Navy and merchant navy during the war. They reached a remarkable conclusion regarding Shinonome's loss. This warship was supposedly sunk by a Dutch mine. This conclusion was taken over by two leading sources (John Dull "The Battle History of the IJN" and Jentschura/Jung/Mickel "Warships of the Imperial Japanese Navy: 1860-1945"). Dutch evidence contradicts this conclusion.

Dutch evidence regarding the attack

I recently came across a report [2] regarding the activities of GVT-7 (with thanks to the Dutch Naval Historical Section in Den Haag). It contains an interesting passage regarding the demise of the Shinonome:
.....Ordered by the CZM, on December 17, an attack was made on three enemy ships near Miri. On arrival, the enemy force consisted of 1 large cruiser steaming with high speed in the direction of Cam Ranh Bay, 1 anchored merchant ship and 1 small torpedoboat [3]. The aircraft attacked seperately shortly after dawn with a 5-minute interval. Each aircraft carried 6 bombs of 200 kg. The X-32 arrived over the area first, and attacked the cruiser, which was hit by two or three of the five bombs dropped. Apparently, the ammunition for the aft turret exploded. A white column of smoke rose to about 1500 or 2000 metres; after about one minute, the ship had stopped and after about 5 minutes, the area between the stern and the two stacks had disappeared beneath the surface. The ship evaded about 10 seconds after dropping the bombs, and stopped after it had turned about 4 points (app. 45 degrees)......
Clearly, this report mentions the Shinonome was steaming independently. The attack was made shortly after sunrise, which is consistent with the timeframe mentioned by Japanese reports. There was cloudcover over the area, as the X-33, attacking the freighter about 5 minutes later, had to change the direction of her attack due to this circumstance.

Although the author has little doubt about the true cause of the sinking, it is interesting to see how the committee may have reached this conclusion. In 1998, an article based on Japanese records was posted on the Nihon Kaigun website, narrating the history of Destroyer Division 12 during its short career [4]. The passage about the Shinonome mentions that the Commander of DesDiv 12, Commander Ogawa reported the Shinonome went down in a violent explosion at 0650 hours Tokyo Time on December 17 (0550 hours local or "Zulu time"). Ogawa nor anyone else had apparently observed the flying boats making their attack. He therefore concluded that the Shinonome must have been lost to a mine or induced explosion. The Assessment Committee apparently adopted this theory, and rejected other possibilities.

It is however remarkable that the Japanese authorities, in Monograph #101, do mention that Shinonome succumbed to aerial attacks. A few thoughts on why a mine was thought to be responsible:


There were no survivors of Shinonome to account for her loss. The crew was aware of the fact that they were under aerial attack, since they put up some AA-fire. It is however strange that none of the other ships observed this display.


The weather conditions prevented the Dutch aircraft from being sighted, and therefore caused the confusion. Clouds started to form in the morning of the 17th, and the Dutch flying boats apparently made use of these during their bomb runs, keeping the Japanese floatplanes at bay. The Dutch flying boats must have popped out of the clouds, or bombed through a clearing, which hid them from view. [5]


The Shinonome was steaming independently. The distance to the other ships (a mile to Hiyoshi Maru) may have obscured the true cause.


Poor air watch was maintained by the Japanese ships. Although this is not a cold fact, there were various occasions where the Japanese were lax in spotting air activity.


I have researched the possibility of mine fields in the area, but this revealed that nor the Dutch, nor the British laid any in the area. Then there is ofcourse the remote possibility of Shinonome hitting an own mine. Although this occured on occasion during the war, I have been unable to find any reference to Japanese mine fields in this part of the East Indies.

Some myths

Over the years, several myths persistently surfaced in various books around the world. Here are a few:


One story is that the Dornier aircraft carried torpedoes instead of bombs. Although the Dutch did have aerial torpedoes, the Dorniers were not rigged to carry them. Torpedobombing was in fact still in its infancy in the NEI. Dorniers usually carried 200 kg-bombs or depthcharges. This myth may have originated from Rohwer/HŁmmelchen "Chronology of the war at sea: 1939-1945".


Another story is that Shinonome didn't sink on December 17, but on the 18th (Samuel L. Morison "Rising sun in the Pacific") or even the 19th (S.W. Kirby "The war against Japan", volume 1). I cannot account for these discrepancies, but most sources (Monograph #116, Paul S. Dull "The Battle History of the IJN" and Senshi Shoto Volume 21) list the correct date.


In various Dutch, older sources, one can often read that X-32 sank a cruiser off Miri. The lack of information shortly after the war led to this erroneous conclusion.


Comments or additional details can be sent to my e-mail.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[1]: These flying boats were Dornier Do 24 K-1 of German origin, with X-pennants. They were armed with one 20 mm and two lighter machine gun for self defence. In addition, they were able to carry a payload of 1200 kg of bombs or depthcharges. X-32 carried six bombs, but one failed to detach itself from the rack. The Dorniers operated in small tactical units (so called GVT's) which normally consisted of three aircraft.

[2]: This report came from "De strijd in Nederlands Oost-IndiŽ: verrichtingen van de MLD in Nederlands Oost IndiŽ gedurende de Japanse opmars", compiled by the Bureau Maritieme Historie in The Hague in 1962. This agency was so kind to send a photocopy. An attempt to obtain the original aviator's report proved unsuccessful.

[3]: The small torpedoboat was the minesweeper W.7 with the merchant ship Hiyoshi Maru. The "large cruiser" Shinonome had escorted these ships to this landing site north of Miri, near Seria. Hiyoshi Maru sustained minor damage in the attack made by X-33 around 0700 hours (which apparently is Tokyo Time).

[4]: This article was written by Allyn Nevitt: "Fleeting Glory: The Fubukis of DesDiv 12". From this article, it becomes clear that Mr. Nevitt did not have opportunity to study information from Dutch sources.

[5]: Several sources (C.C.KŁpfer "Onze vliegers in IndiŽ" and P.C. Boer "De luchtstrijd om Borneo") mention that the attack was made from an altitude of some 4500 metres. Hitting a moving target from this height is an example of excellent marksmanship !<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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GerritJ9
12-18-2006, 02:57 PM
Before the Pacific war broke out, the KNIL had carried out extensive tests with the Glenn Martins to determine the best way to bomb enemy ships. The Glenns usually carried three 300 kg bombs or alternatively two 500 kg bombs each, flying in a flight of three aeroplanes; the leader flew about 10 metres ahead of his wingmen and 50 metres abeam. Optimum bombing heights were between 1000 and 5000 metres, with 4000-5000 metres being judged to be best to avoid AA fire.
The Glenns were equipped with the German Goerz type R bombsight which proved to be extremely accurate. However, in a typical example of pre-war penny-pinching, only two of three Glenns in each flight were actually equipped with a bombsight. The reasoning was that if the leader was shot down, the other bombsight-equipped plane would take command of the flight and since the planes released their bombs when the flight leader did, it would not matter if one plane was shot down since there would always be at least one bomber with a bombsight. The possibility of BOTH bombsight-equipped planes being shot down or forced to return prematurely apparently did not occur to the bright spark(s) who came up with this cost-saving excercise, nor the possibility of the bombsightless plane becoming separated from the formation and arriving over the target and being unable to bomb with any accuracy.........
The Glenns would approach the target in a shallow dive from 5000 metres descending to 4000 metres, making a beam attack; the dive was to gain spped to avoid AA fire; the increase in speed and decrease in height would extra difficulty to the ship's fire control.
The extensive pre-war testing indicated that the chances of at least one hit from such a bomb pattern on a 10,000 ton ship would be about 40% on a manoeuvering ship, and 80% on a ship at anchor or otherwise lying still. Wartime results confirmed the pre-war estimates.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

The KNIL is dead. Long live the KNIL!

woofiedog
12-19-2006, 06:01 AM
Heliopause... Excellent Photo's... can't be to many of those Bird's still around.

Thank's for posting

A bit of a story...

An article in the Batavia Aviation monthly describing this occurrence says:

?A Glenn Martin bomber of the N.I. Army made an emergency landing on the Java Sea on account of engine trouble. One of the accompanying bombers flashed out the news, as a result of which a Grumman of the KNILM, as well as seaplanes of the N.I. Naval Force, flew out to rescue the crew of the disabled bomber. A steamer, which happened to be in the neighborhood of the accident, picked up the radio message and was fortunate in not only saving the crew, but was also able to take the airplane, which was still floating very nicely on the waves, aboard as well.?

http://www.marylandaviationmuseum.org/images/PC002-019_YB12.gif
B-10 with Floats

The largest customer for the export Martin bomber was the Dutch East Indies. The first Dutch order was for 12 Model 139WH-1 bombers powered by 750 hp R-1820-F53 Cyclones. They were delivered between September 1936 and February 1937. 26 Model 139WH-3s, powered by 840 hp R-1820-G3s were delivered from November 1937 to March 1938. The final export version was the Model 139WH-3 (or Model 166), powered by a pair of 900 hp Wright R-1820G-102 radials. It had a long unbroken transparent canopy "greenhouse" that extended from the pilot's cockpit all the way to the rear gunner's position. 78 of these new bombers were delivered by May 5, 1939, when the last export Martin bomber rolled off the Baltimore production line.

Between mid-1936 and 1939, a total of 189 export Model 139W and Model 166 bombers had been manufactured.

Six squadrons of Martin bombers were serving in the Dutch East Indies when the Japanese invaded.

On 8 March 1942 ML-KNIL aircraft M-585 was flown from Andir to Australia where it was transferred to the USAAF. It was formally acquired on 8 April 1942 when it received serial 42-68358 and was designated as RB-10. The fate of the aircraft is not clear. Some reference sources state that it remained in use until August 1944, whilst other reference sources state that it was used for spares, in particular its engines which were similar to those fitted on Lodestars.

Whilst on 13 February 1942 36 Martin bombers of the various types were recorded as available, based on a ML-KNIL report only four remained flyable, although not combat worthy, on 9 March 1942. Some may have been written off ? there are a number of reported write-off which cannot be matched with individual aircraft: eg. 25 February 1942 at Tandjoengkarang, 26 February 1942 at Tjileungsir
Nevertheless, although some were allegedly rendered inoperable, 17 aircraft are known to have been captured by the Japanese of which 15 were probably made flyable. These apparently were prepared by Indonesian and Japanese technicians with the help of a Swiss engineer. It seems that three examples were test flown at Haneda in Tokyo where they were identified with serials 2, 3 and 4. Also one was flown with the old serial 542 although this one could have been included in the aforementioned three aircraft.
It is also thought that the Japanese gave nine of the aircraft to the Royal Thai Air Force, to supplement its stock of six Martin 139 bombers it had acquired in 1939. The nine ML-KNIL aircraft involved three models WH-1 and WH-2 and six WH-3 and WH-3As. Of these three had been found at Singapore. Based on Thai reference sources nine were lost March 1944 and another one in 1944 or 1945. In November 1946 two former ML-KNIL aircraft were seen at Bangkok. They were a WH-1 type identified as 11 and a WH-3 type identified as 12, although their former ML-KNIL serial is not known. The Thai Air Force used Martin bombers up to 1949.

Link: http://f16.parsimony.net/forum27947/messages/8792.htm

Also...

The Chinese are said to have actually used a few of their B-10s on leaflet "raids" against Japan in 1938. The Siamese used their B-10s against both the Japanese and, after they joined the Japanese cause, the French.

http://uscockpits.com/Early%20Bombers/MartinB-10B_LH.jpg

http://uscockpits.com/Early%20Bombers/MartinB-10B_RH.jpg

The Siamese and Turks flew their B-10s into the late 1940s, and the Argentines kept theirs flying even longer. One of the Argentine aircraft is now at the US Air Force Museum at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Ohio, and is believed to be the only surviving B-10.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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GerritJ9
12-19-2006, 06:44 AM
The Do-24 in the colour photos is in the Dutch Air Force Museum at Soesterberg and is on long-term loan from the RAF museum at Hendon. It is one of the Do-24s used by the Spanish for air-sea rescue post-war.
Parts of a Glenn Martin which was shot down near Miri in December 1941 are also in the Soesterberg museum: the port outer wing section, a main wheel plus remains of the tyre, a bomb rack and a few other bits and pieces. They were salvaged after the wreck was discovered in the jungle in 1985. I have no idea if more parts were discovered. Similarly a fuselage of another Glenn Martin was found in a swamp in Sumatra in the late 1980s, but as far as I know nothing has been done to salvage this yet; this plane was shot down in February 1942. Apparently negotiations are ongoing with the Indonesian Government, but that's all I know. Will have to visit the museum again to see if I can discover more.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

The KNIL is dead. Long live the KNIL!

GerritJ9
12-22-2006, 10:00 AM
I have corresponded with P.C. Boer about the sinking of the "Shinonome", and received his reply today. The "Shinonome" was sunk by the Dornier; the confusion about this was caused by wrong coordinates being supplied by Japan, putting her wreck's position in the area where the Glenn Martins attacked. Since "De Luchtstrijd rond Borneo" was published, new information has come to light and the "Shinonome" can now definitely be credited to the MLD. All is not doom and gloom for the Glenn Martins, however- according to P.C. Boer their attack sank a frigate (not identified by name as yet): smaller, perhaps less valuable to the IJN, but nevertheless still a kill! All in all impressive bombing by both MLD and ML!<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

The KNIL is dead. Long live the KNIL!

woofiedog
12-22-2006, 12:49 PM
GerritJ9... Excellent info! Thank's

Could the other ship be the... quote... "torpedoboat was the minesweeper W.7"

From above posts...

After the war, a committee was formed to assess the casualties the Allied naval and airforces had inflicted to the Japanese Navy and merchant navy during the war. They reached a remarkable conclusion regarding Shinonome's loss. This warship was supposedly sunk by a Dutch mine. <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">This conclusion was taken over by two leading sources (John Dull "The Battle History of the IJN" and Jentschura/Jung/Mickel "Warships of the Imperial Japanese Navy: 1860-1945"). Dutch evidence contradicts this conclusion.</span>

"Dutch evidence regarding the attack"

I recently came across a report [2] regarding the activities of GVT-7 (with thanks to the Dutch Naval Historical Section in Den Haag). It contains an interesting passage regarding the demise of the Shinonome:
.....Ordered by the CZM, on December 17, an attack was made on three enemy ships near Miri. On arrival, the enemy force consisted of 1 large cruiser steaming with high speed in the direction of Cam Ranh Bay, 1 anchored merchant ship and 1 small torpedoboat [3]. The aircraft attacked seperately shortly after dawn with a 5-minute interval.

The <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">small torpedoboat was the minesweeper W.7 with the merchant ship Hiyoshi Maru.</span> The "large cruiser" Shinonome had escorted these ships to this landing site north of Miri, near Seria. Hiyoshi Maru sustained minor damage in the attack made by X-33 around 0700 hours (which apparently is Tokyo Time).<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v438/woofiedog/WOOFIEDOG.jpg

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GerritJ9
12-22-2006, 02:13 PM
Mines can most definitely be ruled out- neither British nor Dutch forces laid any mines near Miri in December 1941, and it is highly unlikely that the Japanese laid any mines there prior to their landing at Miri. As far as I have been able to ascertain the Japanese did not lay mines near any of the areas they chose for their landings during the Philippines/Malaya/NEI invasions, so why would they do so near Miri???? I will check the reference books I have to see if I can identify the victim of the Glenn Martins' bombing, bearing in mind the possibility of a wrongly listed cause of sinking, but the date and area will settle it, I suspect.
P.C. Boer calls the ship sunk by the Glenn Martins a frigate and one possible type may be one of the IJN's "pre-Fubuki" destroyers such as the "Momi" class which were reclassified as patrol boats in 1940- the "Matsu" class destroyer escorts and kaibokans appeared much later in the war so they can be ruled out.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

The KNIL is dead. Long live the KNIL!

georgeos1944
03-15-2007, 10:26 AM
The full story of the discovery and identification of Martin M551 near Miri is to be published in "After the Battle" magazine on 15th May 2007.

Peter Boer told me of a photograph of M551 and M556 over singapore in September 1941, escorted by a Wirraway.

I have been unable to trace this photo at either RAF MUseum, IWM or UK national records office. Does anyone have a copy or can tell me where to find it?
George

GerritJ9
03-17-2007, 11:38 AM
If P.C. Boer has a copy of this photo, then it is quite likely that it is from the Dutch Air Force's photo archives.
The warship sunk by the Glenn Martins off Miri was a subchaser, not a frigate, though its identity is uncertain at present. Will post any further info as it becomes available.

leitmotiv
03-17-2007, 12:39 PM
HUGE THANKS, HELIOPAUSE!

Ruy Horta
03-17-2007, 03:37 PM
Any chance any of you have detailed line drawings of the Glenn Martin B-10 / Model 139 bomber?

Can't seem to find them (or at a price I am unwilling to pay).

The air war over the NEI has received good coverage over the last couple of decades.

BTW P.C. Boer has added another chapter:

Het verlies van Java
Een kwestie van Air Power
P.C. Boer
De Bataafse Leeuw, 2006
90-6707-599-X
Laminated, 480p

GerritJ9
03-18-2007, 02:45 AM
Unfortunately, nearly all of the books published about the air war in the NEI in the past 20 years or so have been published in Dutch only so this info is really only available to those who are familiar with Dutch...... i.e. only a small fraction of those interested in the air war in the Pacific. P.C. Boer's earlier works "De Luchtstrijd rond Borneo" and "De Luchtstrijd om IndiŽ" also contain summaries in English and Bahasa Indonesia, but these are too brief to be of much use to anybody wanting in-depth information. Still, the summaries are better than nothing at all, I suppose. "Het verlies van Java" doesn't contain summaries at all, unfortunately http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif
Looks like the rest of you will have to start learning Dutch!http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Ruy Horta
03-18-2007, 06:16 AM
Christopher Shores et al does a good job in Bloody Shambles 1 & 2.

Now what I am after is a good unit history of the US Fighter units stationed on Java, their's was a short but pretty active campaign.

Heliopause
03-18-2007, 07:59 AM
This thread still exists? Thought they lost everything from last oktober. LOL
Leitmotiv, your welcome!