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JuanT
04-13-2005, 07:47 AM
The Spanish IL2 community would like to help to make IL2 FB an even more complete game. Five squadrons of Spanish fighters (serving in rotation) were sent to Russia to fight on the German side from October 1941 to March 1944, serving in the Center sector. The Spanish contribution was not insignificant. During Barbarossa, the Luftwaffe had 18 fighter Staffels in the center sector, plus the Spanish one. Early in 1943, in the whole of Russia the Luftwaffe had 30 fighter Staffel plus the Spanish one. The Spanish squadrons fought in the battles of Moscow, Rzhev, Orel and Dnieper amongst others. They shot down 160 enemy planes and lost 19 pilots. Thus the Spanish contribution was similar to the Slovak one, which is included in the game, and in the interest of historic accuracy, a Spanish side should also be included.
Another reason is the response that IL2 and lately PF have found in Spain, where many squadrons are active as a visit to HL can show. The inclusion of a Spanish side would increase this enthusiasm and open the way for future expansions of the game covering the Spanish Civil war with two spanish sides, a red and a blue.
Perhaps the easiest solution for now is to include Spain as a blue nation, with either one squadron (escuadrilla azul), or two (15 Staffel JG27 and 15 Staffel JG51), or five (escuadrillas azules 1‚¬™ to 5‚¬™). Their skins and markings are the existing Luftwaffe ones, regimental symbols are already present in IL2 FB or in IL2 Manager. Spanish ranks and medals are already available at http://www.il2mania.com/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=70&func=fileinfo&parent=category&filecatid=78. Dgen files and speech subtitles have been translated (http://www.il2mania.com/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=70&func=fileinfo&parent=category&filecatid=33) and a speech pack is in progress.
This idea is supported by Spanish virtual squadrons that fly either as red or blue, such as III JG 52, SG1, Eskadrilya Serafimov, E69, 3a escuadrilla etc.
Just tell us what else is needed.

LEXX_Luthor
04-13-2005, 08:00 AM
I had totally Forgotten about Tuckie~JG52's Spanish project (now Target Spain) until I saw him/her recently at the TargetWare forum.

Target Spain?
~ http://www.targetware.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=196

Thread starts 2003, but moves quickly to January 2005 and beyond...

Tuckie:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Because of our self-date imposed, we have to work hard if we want to have Target Spain ready for the official conference in June. Another important reason for that date is the fact that our still alive veterans are 90-95 years old. Every month there are 10 less SCW pilots, so we have to finish at least the planes they flew before nobody can test them and say "Yes" or "No" at the question if the planes fly well or not. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ya, if Oleg wants to do Spanish Civil WAR (and he does!!!), he better start Now! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Tuckie:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I think that here in Spain somecting has changed and people is now ready to be interested in SCW. It's almost a fashion here! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

LEXX_Luthor
04-13-2005, 08:15 AM
Tuckie:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>3. Last month we could interview real SCW pilots, one of them was an SB-2 Katiuska pilot and the other was a I-15 Chato pilot, exactly the same that flew the Chato numbered as Ca-125, the one that Fuertes modelled and painted its skin. It was impressive, me and Fuertes interviewed the man and he corrected Fuerte's skin over a printed screenshot! amazing!

Both pilots told us things that were so incredible... the Katiuska one survived a both-engine cutout during takeoff, forcing him to belly land the bomber, of course it was full of fuel and bombs...

The I-15 one told us how did their squadron broke the Bf-109 myth, simply forcing them tho head-on passes, that the Messerschmitt did not accepted! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

TheGozr
04-13-2005, 10:52 AM
Both of my grand parents on my mother side were executed in the spanish war by the comunists.
I'll be glad to have some spanish squadrons.

JuanT
04-13-2005, 12:06 PM
Thanks. The important thing is the Spanish IL2 community is large, active and enthusiastic about having Spain in the game. Eveyone I have spoken to is ready to help and there is a real sense of camaraderie between red and blue virtual squadrons.We just need Oleg to help please http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif!

Gato__Loco
04-13-2005, 12:10 PM
Arriba EspaŮa! I'm all for having Spanish squadrons in FB. Add Brazil and Mexico too, and more latin americans will be flying this sim!

Capt.LoneRanger
04-13-2005, 12:12 PM
Oh, no! You guys imigrated here from the SH3-Forum!? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

paux2005
04-13-2005, 12:45 PM
I agree
Great work JuanT, sorry my english.
Oleg listen our pregaries
Spanish great site:
http://www.il2mania.com

DGilmour
04-13-2005, 01:21 PM
I‚¬īm agree, IL2 needs spanish pilots http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif, and spanish text and voices, there isn‚¬īt only spanish people who can understand spanish language, don‚¬īt remember!!

Great works, JuanT.

From Spain: http://escuadron69.hardgame.net/

Gilmour.

PD: sorry my english is too bad.

Frankxaver
04-13-2005, 01:44 PM
Great idea to include the Republic forces and Nationals forces in the Forgotten battles sim.

If it is not possible, is important for spanish people to have a folder with spanish nacionality for to made campaigns and missions for Spanish Civil war (1936-1939).

We wait Oleg Maddox to study the reasons for to include Spain in this great sim IL2+FB+PF.

Thanks.

Taran
www.serafimov.com (http://www.serafimov.com)

ESV_cbhierro
04-13-2005, 04:42 PM
In English:

A greeting to all,

In the first place, is my first time that communicate in the official forum and would want to thank to Oleg and al remainder of their team, the magnifico I work that they have done with the video I play IL-2 Sturmovik and with the subsequent consequences (FB + PF).

On the theme that treats in this post I agree and serious very interesting to be able if not two edicts (National and Republican), if one that to include Spain since the civil war that I touch us to live on 1936 to 1939, was a bank of tests for two nations that entered little conflict time later these two nations they were Germany and the USSR.

Therefore, it would ask Oleg that considered the possibility to include some of these two options in this magnifico flight simiulator of flight that so much to the Spaniards that them likes this play video type as al remainder of the world provides us so many and so various hours of diversion.

A greeting to all and good hunts.

ESV_cbhierro.

En castellano:

Un saludo a todos,

En primer lugar, es mi primera vez que me comunico en el foro oficial y querr√¬*a agradecer a Oleg y al resto de su equipo, el magnifico trabajo que han hecho con el video juego IL-2 Sturmovik y con las secuelas posteriores (FB+PF).

Sobre el tema que se trata en este post estoy de acuerdo y seria muy interesante poder si no dos bandos (Nacional y Republicano), si uno que incluyera a EspaŮa ya que la guerra civil que nos toco vivir de 1936 a 1939, fue un banco de pruebas para dos naciones que entraron en conflicto poco tiempo despu√©s estas dos naciones fueron Alemania y la URSS.

Por lo tanta, le pedir√¬*a Oleg que considerara la posibilidad de incluir alguna de estas dos opciones en este magnifico simulador de vuelo que tanto a los EspaŮoles que les gusta este tipo de video juegos como al resto del mundo nos proporciona tantas y tan variadas horas de diversi√¬≥n.

Un saludo a todos y buena caza.

ESV_cbhierro.

http://www.serafimov.com

p1ngu666
04-13-2005, 08:14 PM
i didnt know spanish was in russia, thought they was netural http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

be nice too have, u guys need to make the national markings so they can be put ingame

goodluck http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

LEXX_Luthor
04-13-2005, 11:34 PM
Ya, alot of Spanish Spanish Civil WAR pilots flew in the East, Nationalists for the Germans, Republicans for the Soviets.

Ayak
04-14-2005, 01:53 AM
Completely in agreement. The Hispanic community would be eternally grateful.

Good work JuanT.

From Spain

http://www.escuadron111.com

ESV_soward
04-14-2005, 02:47 AM
Yeah! It is a great idea. JuanT You have the support of all spanish community

We hope Oleg will study the possibilities of including Spanish Nation in IL2.

And then.... An expansion for the civil war http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Aeronautico
04-14-2005, 03:22 AM
I am TOTALLY for this. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif
A consequent Spanish Civil War expansion, either freeware or payware, would also be GREAT.

aipilotmarkone
04-14-2005, 03:53 AM
JuanT,
Thank you and the rest of the Spanish IL-2 community for contributing to preserving the history of World War II. And, I hope that the Spanish Civil War will represented in PF.

ESV_cbhierro
04-14-2005, 04:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:
i didnt know spanish was in russia, thought they was netural http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

be nice too have, u guys need to make the national markings so they can be put ingame

goodluck http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hello to all,

<span class="ev_code_RED">UN POQUITO DE POR FAVOR!!!</span>

I never have said that Spain supported to the USSR, in every case in the WWII, supported indirectly to the forces of the Axis.

What comment is that in the Spanish civil War there were two edict, National supported by Germany mainly and the Republicans supported these by the USSR, these two powers utilized the Spanish civil war as bank of test for many of the weapons that were used in him WWII. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

A greeting and good hunts to all.

PD: JuanT has had a great idea and I expect that Oleg keep in mind it. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

Frankxaver
04-14-2005, 05:52 AM
Yes Luthor, great spanish pilots fighting in the Patriotic war for the URSS. For example:

Alfonso Garcia "Serafimov"
A great pilot of SB-2 Katiuska in Republic Forces in the Spanish civil war with 105 missions and 115 missions in the URSS with the IL2-Sturmovik aircraft. He awared with seven high medalls: Alexander Nevski Order and Patriotic War Order first and second grade.
http://www.serafimov.com/articulos_historicos_garcia.htm

Too, Celestino Martinez, other great spanish pilot of IL2 in URSS, he died in Batalon battle in march 1945.

Anselmo Sepulveda, other spanish pilot of Pe-2.

Pilots of Republic forces what they fighting in the russian skies. Pilots normally stranger for the spanish and russian people.

Tonight I put other spanish pilots what fighting in the Nacionalist forces in the SCW and after in the Blue squadrons for the German Army in the second world war two.

Taran
www.serafimov.com (http://www.serafimov.com)

Ala11_Kal
04-14-2005, 10:17 AM
As a member of a spanish squad here goes my little bump to back up this suggestion to Oleg.

MOhz
04-14-2005, 10:36 AM
Now I am all for Spain! That is for me a totally unkown Theater.

JuanT
04-14-2005, 12:44 PM
Thanks to all, and hope Oleg is listening! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The best situation would be of course to have a red and a blue spanish or hispanic sides (could even work as blue Spain and red Mexico for example) and it's obvious a SCW add-on will be interesting to lots of people. However the temporary solution I suggest could not be simpler. The Escuadrillas azules squadrons fought as volunteers in the Luftwaffe, therefore:

-Their planes, markings and skins are those already existing for the german Luftwaffe. No need to add anything here.

-All we need is a small change to the code of the game such as folder called SP, or whatever, is recognised as Spain in the Missions and Speech folders.

-At least ONE new blue regiment that will use such a SP speech folder and the markings for the 4a and 5a Escuadrilla already present in the Skins/regiments folder

Please Oleg! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif

luisau
04-14-2005, 11:32 PM
Totally agree, from me, from http://www.il2mania.com and from http://www.terceraescuadrilla.com

This great simulator has a "little fault" if spanish people who fought in SCW and IIWW is not represented.

S!

voivod74
04-15-2005, 05:23 AM
Completely in agreement. Good work JuanT.


http://www.escuadron111.com

E111_Voivod

STENKA_69.GIAP
04-15-2005, 05:49 AM
Hola,

http://perso.club-internet.fr/ptthome/69GIAP/sp-civ-poster.JPG

If any of you Spanish squads or pilots gets bored waiting....

The 69.GIAP and the 249th IAP are already running the Spanish Civil War every Wednesday night - we're up to mission 16 and have at least another 6 months to go.

Click on my badge to visit our site and post up a message in our public forum.

You can post in Spanish if you want.

Frankxaver
04-17-2005, 03:26 AM
Very nice web page STENKA_69.GIAP, it is important for our ckeck other foreigns squadrons interesting in the Spanish civil war and the sim: IL2+FB+PF.

Thanks.

Tizona
04-20-2005, 04:59 AM
I don't belong to any squadron, but I want to add my support as individual to this initiative.

As others have demonstrated in this thread, Spain deserve to be considered a nation in the game.

This would allow more accurate mission building for russian skies, and would open a door to develop SCW campaigns, what I'm sure would add a different flavour to the game that would be appreciated by worldwide players.

Thank you,

-.Tizona

269GA-Veltro
04-20-2005, 07:25 AM
Bump for a spanish map, and CR 32 flyable!
I don't know if would be possible now an addon dedicated to the Spanish Civil War, but a map (also only for the online game) and the Fiat flyable...I16 vs CR 32..http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif...would be really an original and great addition!

GADGET_101ECV
04-20-2005, 08:22 AM
Is my believe that including Spanish units in the Russian Front is a historic fact, and a recognition to the sacrifice participation of those long forgotten (although some still not dead) heroes.

There was a time when the only available experienced combat pilots to deffend the URSS against the German invasor were Spanish, so no doubt that some of the greatest non-russian aces were from that nationality (please do some research and amaze yourselves).

This was due mostly to the need of those airmen to leave their homeland, with great loss, to avoid Franco's political cleanses. But on the other hand, it was due also their strong will to keep fighting for the freedom and democracy of the world.

So we have the paradox that Spanish pilots (and troopers) of both sides were still fighting against eachother after the Spanish Civil War ended.

Don José Maria Bravo, Hero fo the Soviet Union among other distinctives, come to his beloved Spain not long ago, after a long and distinguished career in the Soviet Aviation.

I think is right to recognize the participation of those braves, at least including Spanish units (asked on this forums several times) in the iL-2 series of simulations, although what they really deserve is a fully dedicated and monographic release....

.... OLEG LISTENING? You talked about BoB, Africa and (?????) HERE IS YOUR CHANCE FOR A GOOD "AND".

JG53Frankyboy
04-20-2005, 08:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GADGET_101ECV:
............... But on the other hand, it was due also their strong will to keep fighting for the freedom and democracy of the world......

. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

on the soviet side ?
ok, the time is long ago .

pls dont missunderstand me, i have to say always to say a big 'SALUTE' to the people who fought the facsists !

LEXX_Luthor
04-20-2005, 10:21 AM
Just realized how *big* this site is, lots of info on Spanish Air War.

~~> http://www.aire.org/gce/english/history/

links:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Prologue
Air war
Year 1936 Year 1937
Year 1938 Year 1939 <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The one "air war" link is not working there, but this is the working link here.
"air war" ~> http://www.aire.org/gce/english/history/gue_aire.htm
All others work well.



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>LEOPOLDO MORQUILLAS RUBIO

http://www.aire.org/gce/images/cl1.jpg
~> http://www.aire.org/gce/english/ram/morquillas.htm
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
For the last year, this has been my Windows Desktop. Note the thin high 7km FB clouds. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

DIRTY-MAC
04-20-2005, 02:08 PM
Here are most of the aces
from the spanish civil war
all countries

http://users.accesscomm.ca/magnusfamily/between.htm

Ayak
04-21-2005, 05:19 AM
Some Aroman's Skin of plane in SCW:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v57/javimiau/6Moscas.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v57/javimiau/109Kondor.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v57/javimiau/Ju87Kondor.jpg

One reason more.

Sorry to my english http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/1072.gif

avimimus
04-21-2005, 09:56 AM
It is time that this war against facism in which we turned our backs on spain be remembered in a sim!:

BOB
MTO
SCW

I would pay twice as much to see the last one done!

Adlerangriff
04-21-2005, 12:19 PM
"They shot down 160 enemy planes and lost 19 pilots."


Just what we are missing : skewed stats to support more national pride. You should fit right in.

160 to 19. Do you believe that for one second?

D_River
04-21-2005, 12:41 PM
160 enemy planes vs 19 pilots.

19 pilots don‚¬īt necessary mean 19 planes lost.

So why not believe?

Tooz_69GIAP
04-21-2005, 04:53 PM
It would be very cool to have Spain in the game, but I seriously doubt there will be any chance of having a SCW expansion for FB/AEP/PF.

However, an expansion for BoB may be possible. Who knows?

GADGET_101ECV
04-22-2005, 02:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG53Frankyboy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GADGET_101ECV:
............... But on the other hand, it was due also their strong will to keep fighting for the freedom and democracy of the world......

. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

on the soviet side ?
ok, the time is long ago .

pls dont missunderstand me, i have to say always to say a big 'SALUTE' to the people who fought the facsists ! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Spanish Civil War was a clash between two extraterritorial political powers. On one hand the surgent fascist ideologies of Europe, Italy and Germany, that supported the rebels. Those powers believed in a complete absolutism of their goverments against freedom of thought.

On the other hand we had people fighting against those powers, who sincerely believed in the freedom of the individual oposing absolutism. Among those who fought on that side we might find Americans, French, British, and combatants from other many nationalities. It was the most "romantic" war of the many we had on the XX Century and atracted people from all around the world... Ah those times where things were simple: good guys and bad ones.

Yes, it is true that among the Republican troops were also anarchist, comunist, and believers of other ideologies, but we have to understand that in the timeframe of 1.936, at that time anarchism and comunism were part of democracy.

When war ended, there were many experienced republican pilots available, who had no country anymore. Their choice were either to stay in France (the neighbour country) as refugees in CONCENTRATION CAMPS and die of famine and exposure, or going somewhere else. Many republican pilots learned to fly in, at that time, the great surgent URSS, so going to Russia was a logical choice. At that time nothing was known about Stalin's purges, for instance. All they wanted was to keep fighting agains fascism, and Russia provided them with "modern" planes and a fight.

Please consider that the very same camarades of those pilots that made the choice to go to Russia (for no clear reasons experienced Spanish aces were refused in France and UK at the same time that Polish where an important part of the RAF) fought on the ground on he sands of Normandy and even where the very first troops to step their boots on Paris to free it from the German ocupation.

I dont know if this thoughts present now a more clear perspective of what really might have happened.

Yes, at that time fighting for URSS was fighting for democracy. No doubt.

LeadSpitter_
04-22-2005, 08:07 AM
Great site of aircraft that participated in the Spanish civil war.

http://www.zi.ku.dk/personal/drnash/model/spain/did.html

TUCKIE.JG52
04-22-2005, 10:23 AM
Hi there,

I had to register again, lost my Ubi account as TUCKIE_JG52, it was a
long time since my last post here‚‚ā¨¬¶

I advice, this post will be very long, so I'll cut it in 4 parts.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

PART #1

In the second post of this thread, LEXX_Luthor quoted me some comments
I did in the Targetware forum about SCW Project (Proyecto SCW).

We wish to say that Proyecto SCW's URL is http://scw.hardgame.net
Our website is almost entirely in Spanish, due to the lack of a
dedicated translator since mid 2003. But in despite the language, the
pictures we show in our web are very clear, and in most cases
self-explanatory.

Back to this thread, and first of all, I have to note that the JuanT's
idea is not from the SCW Project, probing that inside and outside
Spain there are several groups of people interested in representing
Spanish Civil War, with some connection or not between those groups.
As I said, Spanish Civil War is a fashion here. It's like a long term
dream that has made real. I repeat, it is real, it is happening, and
it is succeeding NOW.

Proyecto SCW is not the first effort in that way, not the only, and
not the last. Before us, there are (so they still exist) several
groups and individuals bringing the SCW to FS2004, X-Plane, CFS2, EAW,
BF1942, MOHAA, and surely there are many others that we don't know.
There is also JuanT, Jcantos, Aroman, Txaika, One13, and many other
that I cannot mention it all here, that are aprroaching SCW to FB.
Please I beg your pardon to those I don't mention; you are a lot of
people‚‚ā¨¬¶

In all cases, Proyecto SCW supports all those initiatives in the way
we can. The support includes, in some cases, sharing data, pictures,
or what anybody needs. In other cases, the collaboration is not easy
and has not been started yet, but we always bet for it. Supporting
ones each others is the way to follow.

Proyecto SCW is not alone. It is under protection of the legal
association (under Spanish laws) Aviadores Virtuales Asociados (AVA),
which URL is http://ava.sarriacity.net
Feel free to post in English in our forums (as in the Proyecto SCW's
ones), somebody will respond.
And more exactly, Proyecto SCW is a line of organised work from inside the AVA.

Thanks to the AVA work, we gained access to the spanish Museo del
Aire, so we could analyse, all from outside and some inside, planes
like the only Polikarpov I-15 1:1 replica in the world, the equally
unique original He-111E (one of the SCW variants), or the Fiat CR-32,
Polikarpov I-16 replica, Morane Saulnier 181 and 230 replicas, Miles
Falcon and Hawk Major, Dornier Wal replica, original deHavilland DH-89
Dragon Rapide, and much more.

See some pictures made by us:

http://photos6.flickr.com/9210490_bc6e4c9357_o.jpg
Original cockpit from the Fiat CR-32 Chirri in the Museo del Aire.
Pictures don't smell, you had to be there! This cockpit was identical
to all the ancient pictures we found of him.

http://photos7.flickr.com/10224717_0c3a991ef2_o.jpg
The only I-15 replica in the world. I don't mean other variants. It's
an I-15, reconstructed by veteran mechanics and engineers. Some parts
are real.

http://photos8.flickr.com/10367450_02cb3278ca_o.jpg
The I-16's replica landing gear. Note the wire.

http://photos6.flickr.com/10224869_1c4e4e7a5c_o.jpg
A Wright Cyclone, built here.

http://photos8.flickr.com/10224716_43b392e925_o.jpg
The only He-111E in the world, it was one of the correct variants that
fought in SCW.

But this is only one more of the SCW intense work since the first 2005
days. As many of you can see, during 2004, Proyecto SCW virtually
disappeared from the web due to technical problems and finally got
little evolution seen from outside during past year. From inside, we
did never stop; data was always coming in, and contacts being made
firmly.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

TUCKIE.JG52
04-22-2005, 10:25 AM
PART #2

One of the other ways in the Proyecto SCW is interviewing veterans.
For the moment, we interviewed many Republican airmen that still
alive. Tupolev SB-2 Katiuska pilots, Polikarpov R-Z Natacha observers,
a group of Polikarpov I-15 Chato pilots (some of them corrected over
the pictures the skins we made for Targetware about THEIR planes!!!),
Polikarpov I-16 Mosca top aces (don't mind the histories they tell
us!), and Canadian Car and Foundry CCF G-23 pilots.

Most of them learned to fly in Kirobavad, URSS, and a little group
also fought in the WWII flying the most common russian planes.

I can tell you more and more. He have hours of interview recordings.
Each one has a different way of managing his plane, but most have
several points in common. To make a long story short, watch this:

http://photos7.flickr.com/10224872_abb1b3f6ac_o.jpg
Bravo (on the right, the left one is an SB-2 pilot), one of the top
aces in Spain, 24 kills in his logbook, 9 or 10 of them were Bf-109.
He piloted the famous CM-193 and later the CM-249, that he described
us as the most powerful I-16 of the republican air force, powered by a
Wright Cyclone, and oxygen equipped. Took combats at 9.000 meters
against 109's. During WWII flew the Spitfire, Kingcobra‚‚ā¨¬¶ but no kills
so he was at air defence. Told us how to kill a He-111E: fire at the
pilot or shoot an unprotected small remanent fuel tank near the wing's
root to set it on fire. In the next picture, see a recent flight of
this man; during that flight, he did some loops and rolls. In one
moment of the maneuvers, the G-meter reached 5. It doesn't matter if
he or the pilot did the 5-G loop, the question is that Bravo is 88
years old!
http://photos5.flickr.com/10381736_0b5f5faa3d_o.jpg
Thanks to SuperMosca for this picture! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://photos7.flickr.com/10224714_d67ea90b5c_o.jpg
"Guti", An SB-2 pilot. He destroyed the Katiuska numbered as 54 in a
belly landing just after takeoff, when it was full of bombs and fuel,
but it not exploded. His Russian nick was "Gutin".

http://photos6.flickr.com/10224715_85e14b6e90_o.jpg
Calvo, an I-15 pilot from the 2‚¬™ Escuadrilla. He leaded the last
flight of his squadron to Madrid so he knew the zone, on the way to
rendition, following orders. In this picture, he is telling us how to
correct our initial CA-125 painting of his plane, so there are some
profiles that are certainly wrong.

http://photos6.flickr.com/10224612_de2bb3e674_o.jpg
Vilella (at right; ground mechanic specialised in engines,
participated in the Museo del Aire's I-15 reconstruction) and Simon
Fiestas (at left, 2‚¬™ Escuadrilla's I-15 pilot) watch for the first
time the FB box.

http://photos5.flickr.com/10225089_adcb4dc799_o.jpg
Vinyals, chief of the I-15's 2‚¬™ Escuadrilla. This pilot slightly
collided in the air with capitan Haya over Teruel front, but was able
to make the Fiat overshoot him, kill it, and return to base heavily
damaged in his Chato. In the pic, he is pointing a very famous picture
of then, in which he is catching his I-15's propeller.

http://photos6.flickr.com/10224871_c3c7806441_o.jpg
Fierro, SCW's 3‚¬™ Escuadrilla pilot and WWII pilot for Russia (Yak-7,
Yak-9, Hurricane). Many kills in SCW and at least 2 Taran against
Ju-88 in Russia. He was not awarded as russian hero due to losing his
Yak-7 in the process‚‚ā¨¬¶ One of the I-16 he flew (CM-222) was painted by
Txaika in FB and he saw it. Here he is showing his book, the which one
inspired me the Proyecto SCW creation after I readed it.

And also‚‚ā¨¬¶
http://photos5.flickr.com/10225090_018b30c987_o.jpg
Wreckage from an I-16 crash. Maybe its data should be useful, so it's
from an original M-25 engine and it's in russian‚‚ā¨¬¶

There are more republican pilots and these listed are not all of the
interviewed, of course. We are interviewing them one by one. The great
lack we have here are the pilots that flew in the National side. We
haven't been able to meet any. But we are moving to find them and
interview all as their old opponents opened to us.

And also, an important thing we have to explain now: have all this in
mind, Spanish Civil War was horrible, there were terrible crimes, most
of them were political and between brothers. But we are over the
political vision. It is not our interest. We are simply interested in
historical aviation of SCW (and post-SCW) and pilots. Not more. It is
not a question of national proud as someone criticised here. It's
simply the history that flew here, and the pilots who went to fly
outside, as a part of the world's history, that uses to be forgotten.
Just that.

Our grandfathers fought in that war, in some cases one in each side.
If they killed each other, some of us would not exist. It's my
personal case.

So we all have to leave the political view. There is no place for it
in our hobby. We are only getting back the aviation history at the
place it has to be. In Spain, the virtual community has been flying in
WWII simulators for very long. Of course Il-2/FB/AEP/PF are all the
most successful simulators here. But we want to fly the Spanish Civil
War, like our grandfathers did, but without political viewings.

And this interest is not only a question of spanish virtual pilots; I
see that there are many and many interested ones all over the world,
just like us find very interesting the less-known wars, like the
finnish one that is yet present in Forgotten Battles‚‚ā¨¬¶ But here it was
different. SCW started with biplanes and sesquiplanes, fixed gear,
open cabin, and finished with monoplanes, retractable gear, closed
cabin, cannons. There are planes that happily can be flown in a turn
and burn combat, and there are planes that require high skills to fly.
It's a for-all-people possible simulator.

Forgotten Battles‚‚ā¨¬¶ that name is properly for Spanish Civil War‚‚ā¨¬¶ it is
the real big Forgotten Battle! Shall we forget aces from many
nationalities (apart form the Spanish born ones) that lost their lives
in Spain? The were mostly Russian, Italian, German, Portuguese,
French, Czech, Belgian, Polish, English, American, and from more other
countries‚‚ā¨¬¶

We think that "Remember Spain" should be a good name, or some else like that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

TUCKIE.JG52
04-22-2005, 10:26 AM
PART #3

Well, apart of those all, in Proyecto SCW we are making some planes
flyable under the TargetWare online platform. As it has been said in
this post, we name it TARGET SPAIN. Some planes are under the FM
constructing phase (it is being done by a group of industrial and
aeronautical real engineers), and very soon they'll fly.

The question is that all the data we use is ours, so we collected
them, and we can re-use it in others simulators. There's no problem in
that, as we agreed it with TW staff.

See some 3D models, the most complete by now, but there are much more
(planes and vehicles). Please note they are WIP:

http://photos6.flickr.com/10224712_880a34a846_o.jpg
Polikarpov I-15 Chato, made by Fuertes and corrected by Calvo itself,
the real pilot who flew it during the republican rendition.

http://photos8.flickr.com/10224609_9fb57fa428_o.jpg
Messerschmitt Bf-109, made by Khiro, it's an E-3, but mods are otw to
adapt it to other SCW variants.

http://photos5.flickr.com/10224611_9be8511416_o.jpg
Fiat CR-32, made by Fuertes, with a provisional skin.

http://photos7.flickr.com/10224614_8bd8cc008d_o.jpg
Canadian Car and Foundry CCF G-23. It has been made by Constantino.

http://photos7.flickr.com/10367449_5ff4e6685e_o.jpg
Heinkel He-112, made by Aker_101.

http://photos5.flickr.com/9211171_af3026612c_o.jpg
Savoia Marchetti SM-79, made by Fuertes in collaboration with Target Tobruk

http://photos7.flickr.com/10367451_a052dea2d3_o.jpg
Potez 540, made by Constantino.

But our focusing in TargetWare does not make us to forget about
Ubisoft simulators. In fact we have been always keeping an eye (or
both http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif) on them. So I am here, explaining all this to you all. Maybe
we moved so intensely in Spain (you don't mind how many intensely we
been moving!), that we forgot to tell it to the world.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

TUCKIE.JG52
04-22-2005, 10:27 AM
PART #4

For example, we were also very busy in the AVA association, but when I
say very, I'd rather say VERY.

We organised many activities, like public displays FB, SCW, PF, LOMAC,
or conferences with veteran pilots, and any other aviation activities.

See this:

http://photos7.flickr.com/10224873_7f8fedef34_o.jpg
One day, AVA presented to the public FB and LOMAC together. For
example, here, an Escuadron 69 pilot is explaining the A-10 Maverick
use.

http://photos7.flickr.com/10224874_90bb582abb_o.jpg
This man is Clos, the Barcelona's major. Apart of politician, he is a
Cessna pilot. When he saw the AVA's stand in an air show, he
interested by our activities. We let him test Pacific Fighters‚‚ā¨¬¶ He
could take a Corsair to a flat spin and recover from it‚‚ā¨¬¶ In the
pictures, it is very clear what simulators did we explained to him.

http://photos6.flickr.com/10224610_0caca82598_o.jpg
This is me in the middle of a briefing. We used FB with SCW textures
taken from Il2skins to fly a massive historical attack of the
republican air force to a national airbase, over a LAN. As usual, it
was intense, see below!
http://photos5.flickr.com/10224613_fe977c11c1_o.jpg

And more about veterans, SCW or not‚‚ā¨¬¶

http://photos5.flickr.com/10224713_c026d36ef2_o.jpg
Once, during an AVA's display, an I-16 pilot, Ram√¬*rez, appeared there.
He tested an FB's I-16, and initially could not perform well. He
wanted a long stick as his real plane, not a short stick like our
Cougars. When, in 5 minutes, he adapted to the sensibility of the
joystick, he performed so well loops and rolls. He learned to fly the
Mosca too late in Kirovabad, so war ended in Spain and he remained in
URSS. Until we sit him on a simulator, he had never flew again the
Mosca‚‚ā¨¬¶ 66 years ago!

http://photos7.flickr.com/10225091_7ec45e4d18_o.jpg
Do you remember the movie "Battle of Britain"? (maybe in english it
was called "Their Finest Hour", I don't know) Concretely, do you
remember that "Bf-109" (in fact, it was a Spanish-built
Hispano-Aciaci√¬≥n Ha-1112 Buch√¬≥n) very-low pass (2 meters from the
ground) when straffing Hurricanes at the start of the film? Well, this
old man is that pilot. It's name is Carlos Garc√¬*a-Berm√¬ļdez. That
conference was so impressive!!! Just look at the room full of people‚‚ā¨¬¶

http://photos6.flickr.com/8415446_a71ac3138c_o.jpg
This man is Peter Brill, a german pilot who flew for the Luftwaffe
between 1943-1945. He had been training originally to bomb New York in
a He-177 (it was the original idea to do with that plane, but later
changed). Later passed to Bf-109 (JG77), his first real mission was
during Bodenplatte Mission. Had 4 Yak-9 kills, and flew in both East
and West front. In the picture, he is talking about the 109's cabin
over the FB one. He is living in Spain since long time ago. Now, he is
still flying a Cessna each Saturday! We have all the conference
recorded in MP3; soon there will be an English transcription of the
event.

I'm exhausted after this book-long post, but I think that I could
explain all that I wanted, and all that was necessary to explain. If
you have any doubts about any concrete point I'll promise a response
when we can.

Are we moving or not? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

PS1: I'd shoud give thanks here, I think this is the moment, to the
Proyecto SCW's squadrons old supporters, associations and
organisations, like Targetware, AVA, Escuadr√¬≥n 69, Target Tobruk,
Tercera Escuadrilla, Spanish III/Jagdgeschwader 52 (salute to the
French III/JG52!), Il-2 Mania, Aeroteca (aerial book shop where AVA do
its conferences), ADAR, Museo del Aire, Il2 Skins, Escuadr√¬≥n 111, and
more‚‚ā¨¬¶ again I beg your pardon if I forget someone‚‚ā¨¬¶

PS2: Special thanks to the Proyecto SCW members (in strictly
alphabetical order): AntCam, Aker, Bore, Constantino, Devious,
Fuertes, Gadget, Khiro, Otxoa, Sak‚‚ā¨¬¶

Ala11_Kal
04-22-2005, 11:24 AM
Oleg, don't you think these guys deserve some attention after so much effort, (incluiding promotion of your sim)??

I think so.

PS: @ TUCKIE. Te has salido, felicidades.

Gato__Loco
04-22-2005, 11:38 AM
Excelente trabajo, Tuckie!!!!!

CantosVLC
04-22-2005, 11:47 AM
Sadly the project "Spain in FB" (not SCW in FB) got stopped nearly one year ago by some odds, but thx to some guys the project is up again.

At least, basic things like medals, *.dat files and other stuff are ready, and voices will be finished soon.

FAE_Cazador
04-22-2005, 12:26 PM
We the spanish pilots of "Escuadrilla FAE",

http://www.escuadrilla-fae.com

totally support the proposals of JuanT and Tuckie, about including spanish Lufwaffe's units who fought in the Russian Front, in the OKL side of IL2FB, and also including the Spanish Civil War inside IL-2FB as another theater of Operations, with its planes, units, skins,campaings, mission etc.

Good work, JuanT and Tuckie, and good idea to bring again this posibility to this forum. Let's hope Oleg hear us in this occasion.

Kind regards

FAE_Cazador

http://escuadrilla-fae.com/~fae/avatarFAE.gif

Frankxaver
04-22-2005, 12:58 PM
Sin palabras Tuckie, eres un mostruo.

ESV_Taran
www.serafimov.com (http://www.serafimov.com)

killerbarby
04-22-2005, 02:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GADGET_101ECV:
Is my believe that including Spanish units in the Russian Front is a historic fact, and a recognition to the sacrifice participation of those long forgotten (although some still not dead) heroes.

There was a time when the only available experienced combat pilots to deffend the URSS against the German invasor were Spanish, so no doubt that some of the greatest non-russian aces were from that nationality (please do some research and amaze yourselves).

This was due mostly to the need of those airmen to leave their homeland, with great loss, to avoid Franco's political cleanses. But on the other hand, it was due also their strong will to keep fighting for the freedom and democracy of the world.

So we have the paradox that Spanish pilots (and troopers) of both sides were still fighting against eachother after the Spanish Civil War ended.

Don José Maria Bravo, Hero fo the Soviet Union among other distinctives, come to his beloved Spain not long ago, after a long and distinguished career in the Soviet Aviation.

I think is right to recognize the participation of those braves, at least including Spanish units (asked on this forums several times) in the iL-2 series of simulations, although what they really deserve is a fully dedicated and monographic release....

.... OLEG LISTENING? You talked about BoB, Africa and (?????) HERE IS YOUR CHANCE FOR A GOOD "AND". <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


wrong !!!!

russian combat veterans in spanish civil war when barbarossa broke out.

spaniards were not put inmediatly in flying duty, more, they were put aside or ignored by soviet commanders. They acted mainly as partisans, first. When they let'em fly were in rearguard security (PVO) not front, so not much action they saw. Other were in active units otherwise, but scatered, not forming never an all spanish VVS unit.

Did really Bravo was awarded the HSU award? when and why? I doubt it, he flew in PVO and mainly training russian recruits.

I believe development work must be focused in other areas, so please, what is done is done, u can mod the game to your convenience, don't see the point to force the developer to do so.

Ayak
04-22-2005, 02:07 PM
Tremendo Tuckie http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif ...

www.escuadron111.com (http://www.escuadron111.com)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v57/javimiau/Ju522G22.jpg
Skin created by Aroman.

killerbarby
04-22-2005, 02:19 PM
And more, if it seems you're developing your own sim depicting SCW, why do you ask 1C to do the same. Really weird, indeed.

Those old veterans agree with you? I can post many pictures of combat pilots and defend any idea about this sim.

This is a game not a homage, this is not about defending democracy or anything like that is just doing something fun without doing any illegal, and also be profitable for developer (keep always this in mind). If u want a homage for them there is a square dedicated to spanish pilots in VVS in Moscow, visit it.

How many squares in spanish cities dedicated to spanish republican aviators, even with left-wing governments in Spain since dictator's death?

3ra_DSLam
04-22-2005, 03:00 PM
Salute!
All the support from me and il2mania/3ra escuadrilla!!

Hello Killerbaby, I think noone is forcing the developer, they are simply showing what they have and showing him it (medals, skins, almost done voices, etc). If he want he can put all into the sim like it did with other community projects.
Also, about Tuckie's SCW Project...the models they are doing are portable to TargetWare platform but also to il2...so, it's not weird to me. Those are two different platforms, communities, objectives, etc.

GADGET_101ECV
04-22-2005, 03:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG53Frankyboy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GADGET_101ECV:
............... But on the other hand, it was due also their strong will to keep fighting for the freedom and democracy of the world......

. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

on the soviet side ?
ok, the time is long ago .

pls dont missunderstand me, i have to say always to say a big 'SALUTE' to the people who fought the facsists ! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You have to look things from a perspective of 1936. Spain was at that time a democratic country. Yes, it is true that there were communist and even anarchist parties, but that was part of the freedom of thought that characterized those times in Europe. Many ideologies were still not tested, nor known by every day people, many still iliterate. Today we know everything about Stalin, Berlin‚‚ā¨ôs wall, cold war, etc‚‚ā¨¬¶ but in 1936 all those things were still far in the future. At those times, things were much simpler, there were people who fought for freedom, and people how fought for the new fascism (a brand new untested ideology at those times). As the matter of fact, the simplicity of the concept, freedom vs. evil, was so clear and attractive that many volunteers come from other countries to fight in that war. So there were thousands of Americans, British, French, Russian fighting for the Republica on one side, and tens of thousand Italians and many thousand Germans fighting on the other side.

Once war eneded, combatants for the Republica had to leave Spain to avoid Franco‚‚ā¨ôs political cleansings. People who died after the war in those cleansings soon amounted more than all the casualties who actually died in battle. The first logical step was fleeing to France, the neighbour country, but refugees were soon confined in concentration camps in such inhuman conditions, that many died of famine and exposure. Some of the former Republica aces found their way to Russia, were they were offered ‚‚ā¨Ňďmodern‚‚ā¨¬Ě planes to keep fighting fascism. It was a dream for them.

At the same time those pilots flew for freedom in the Russian front, some of their republican comrades found their way to fight for the same cause for the Free France and the Brits in the deserts of North Africa, and even on the sands of Normandy. As the matter of fact, the very first unit who entered Paris to free it from the German occupation was the 9th Company of Leclerc‚‚ā¨ôs 2nd Armored Division, formed exclusively by Spaniards, under the command of Amado Granell.

The objective of those combat veterans were to fight against fascism in Europe, and then in Spain with the help of the Allied nations. But History was not just with them and after WWII Spain was set aside and soon forgotten. Franco‚‚ā¨ôs totalitarian regime was skip by the Marshall‚‚ā¨ôs help to reconstruct Europe, but also was soon recognised by the Allied nations, so many veterans stayed in France, Mexico and even U.R.S.S. after the cease of hostilities, as the best choice to reconstruct their lives.

But have no doubt about it. Pilots who fought for U.R.S.S. in WWII fought for freedom.

CantosVLC
04-22-2005, 03:45 PM
Killerbarby the idea is to implement Spain in FB, not developing a mod about SCW. First thing done, mission builders can do whatever they want, as many players do with african or pacific islands map.

Certainly there are some odds regarding in wich side Spain would be implemented, as far as Oleg could not implement two spains, like Romania or Slovakia.

The initial idea -and thats the way it was going to be done- is to add Spain as axis nation with its squads, as far as officially (and sadly) they fought for LW in the Blue Staffelns, and, as you noted, there was not a "spanish squad" in the VVS.

So a good idea would be to add a "spanish blank squad" -or whatever you want to call it- on the VVS in game, so mission builders and community can mess with all the posibilityes this could offer. Voice issue for the red side pilots would be a secondary prob, that im sure the community can afford, as far as 1C is busy with other things.

That was the idea one year ago, but due some reasons the project felt into nothing.

All things necessary for doing this are DONE (at least the public-accesible ones), and that is, markings, icons, medals, dat files, and almost voices.

By other hand, all the SCW stuff simply is there, "just in case", as far as i understood.

Mix-Martes86
04-22-2005, 04:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Capt.LoneRanger:
Oh, no! You guys imigrated here from the SH3-Forum!? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're a bit wrong there. At the present moment, I'm the only guy that has really imigrated from the SH3 forum to here. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


Well, since the Spanish-speaking subsimming community got a nice support from the spanish air squadrons when we asked a Spanish Silent Hunter III, now the Spanish-speaking subsimming community is going to support the spanish air squadrons with a IL2-Spanish WW2 planes expansion. The 24th Flotilla will officially support this proyect as we were previously supported by you.
You can contact us in our forums http://www.24flotilla.com/phpBB2/index.php
We will gladly help you.

Cheers,

Mix-Martes86, International Relationships Officer for the 24th Flotilla

----------------------------------------------

Bueno, como la comunidad de habla hispana de simulacion submarina tuvo un buen apoyo de los escuadrones aereos espaŮoles cuando pediamos un Silent Hunter III en castellano, ahora la la comunidad de habla hispana de simulacion submarina va a apoyar a los escuadrones aereos espaŮoles en su proyecto de una expansion de IL2 con aviones espaŮoles. La 24‚¬™ Flotilla apoyar√° oficialmente este proyecto del mismo modo que previamente recibimos vuestro apoyo.
Podeis contactar con nosotros en nuestros foros http://www.24flotilla.com/phpBB2/index.php
Os ayudaremos gustosamente.

Un saludo,

Mix-Martes86, Oficial de Relaciones Internacionales para la 24‚¬™ Flotilla

LEXX_Luthor
04-22-2005, 05:06 PM
Thanks Tuckie!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

avimimus
04-22-2005, 06:20 PM
Do you think there is any chance of seeing 5-7 3rd party SCW planes in bob?
Is there also any possibility of the Spanish government or airforce contracting Oleg to build such a simulator (I have been thinking about Canada paying for an Anson cockpit and a chipmunk for the Commonwealth Air training plan in BOB)

luke97
04-23-2005, 01:23 AM
Gracias Tuckie. Me he emocionado mucho ante el enorme esfuerzo que has hecho al postear toda esa informacion aqui. Estoy orgulloso de pertenecer a esta comunidad y ahora lo siento m√°s que nunca.
Ojal√° Oleg tenga el detalle de escucharnos, pero √¬ļltimamente parece estar un poco atareado, ya que ni siquiera dice nada del parche 4.0.

S!

OrkaJG52
04-23-2005, 02:18 AM
aaaarrrrribaaa waaaarraaaa, si por dar por culo que no quede.

GADGET_101ECV
04-23-2005, 03:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by killerbarby:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GADGET_101ECV:
Is my believe that including Spanish units in the Russian Front is a historic fact, and a recognition to the sacrifice participation of those long forgotten (although some still not dead) heroes.

There was a time when the only available experienced combat pilots to deffend the URSS against the German invasor were Spanish, so no doubt that some of the greatest non-russian aces were from that nationality (please do some research and amaze yourselves).

This was due mostly to the need of those airmen to leave their homeland, with great loss, to avoid Franco's political cleanses. But on the other hand, it was due also their strong will to keep fighting for the freedom and democracy of the world.

So we have the paradox that Spanish pilots (and troopers) of both sides were still fighting against eachother after the Spanish Civil War ended.

Don José Maria Bravo, Hero fo the Soviet Union among other distinctives, come to his beloved Spain not long ago, after a long and distinguished career in the Soviet Aviation.

I think is right to recognize the participation of those braves, at least including Spanish units (asked on this forums several times) in the iL-2 series of simulations, although what they really deserve is a fully dedicated and monographic release....

.... OLEG LISTENING? You talked about BoB, Africa and (?????) HERE IS YOUR CHANCE FOR A GOOD "AND". <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


wrong !!!!

russian combat veterans in spanish civil war when barbarossa broke out.

spaniards were not put inmediatly in flying duty, more, they were put aside or ignored by soviet commanders. They acted mainly as partisans, first. When they let'em fly were in rearguard security (PVO) not front, so not much action they saw. Other were in active units otherwise, but scatered, not forming never an all spanish VVS unit.

Did really Bravo was awarded the HSU award? when and why? I doubt it, he flew in PVO and mainly training russian recruits.

I believe development work must be focused in other areas, so please, what is done is done, u can mod the game to your convenience, don't see the point to force the developer to do so. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't know what have we done to you personally just for asking support to our ideas. Please excuse if I talk straight, but you seem to have some kind of attitude problem against us for some reason.

Please confirm by yourself that there were Spanish-only units in the Russian Front... and they fought on the German side. We never said that Spaniards fought only for U.R.S.S. The Escuadrillas Azules were formed exclusively by Spaniards, and used their own insignias on the planes, mostly Fw.190s and Bf.109s.

It is also true that there was a time when of the very few experienced pilots left alive in U.S.S.R. (no more explanations), some were Spanish and they were put to fly because Russia Needed them bad. You must agree.

You are right when you say that Spaniards who fought in WW2 have been ignored for a long time and missjudeged by History. What we are demanding is recognition, although it might be only in a game... and we all know that is not too hard to do, don't we?

That there might not be many monuments in Spain dedicated to those pilots is only another wrong approach to this subject. How many monuments do you know in Germany deditated, not just to any pilot, but to the greatest of the greates, the biggest ace of all times, Erich Hartman??? And to Adof Galland, Gunter Rall, Walter Krupinsky, or other great pilots??? Do you know wy??? Because they were the loosers in the war and History is written ONLY by the winners.

Come on...

We admit that many people might not agree with us, but bad attitudes are not neccesary.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

paux2005
04-23-2005, 08:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by luke97:
Gracias Tuckie. Me he emocionado mucho ante el enorme esfuerzo que has hecho al postear toda esa informacion aqui. Estoy orgulloso de pertenecer a esta comunidad y ahora lo siento m√°s que nunca.
Ojal√° Oleg tenga el detalle de escucharnos, pero √¬ļltimamente parece estar un poco atareado, ya que ni siquiera dice nada del parche 4.0.

S! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Joder luke has expresado lo que sentimos todos en este momento
Arriba
go up
The spanish peopple is not quiet

E69_Darkness
04-23-2005, 08:43 AM
Hello everybody.

69th Spanish Squadron gives total support to create a SCW simulator, it does not matter if it is from one software or another. The main thing is that the Spanish Civil war was the Luftwaffe main experimental war in order to put their planes ready for combat. SCW was the first to see a city destroyed by bombers (Guernika) and the first to see combats with tactics never seen before, and they were developed from 1936 until the end of the second world war. Tuckie is making a big effort that would be very appreciate in other countries, but it seems that Spain is always a forgotten country.

Regards.

Darkness.
69th Spanish Squadron.

JuanT
04-23-2005, 10:47 AM
I would like to thank everybody for their contributions, especially Tuckie, and answer a few points.

1)First apologies to all those that might think this is not an appropriate topic, that we are taking over this forum etc. Please understand we are not in any way trying to sploil your and our fun and favourite game http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif. But understand that the spanish community just would like to have what you guys already have, a role in the game.Spain (either as SCW or as a WWII combatant) is not included in any air sim, and it only becuase the amazing scope and historic fidelity of IL2 that we are suggesting this: IL2 is 90% of the way there already! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

2) Has Cantos says, is two different things to have Spain in IL2 and to have the SCW. The first thing would be easy to do (we hope) the second a bit more difficult, but also very interesting and fun. As it has been said, is the variety of planes with different combat techniques, and the international dimension of the conflict, which would make an SCW expansion so exciting. And without a single Spanish regiment in the game, we can do very limited modding of the game without removing existing components, something I do not advocate.

3) We are not trying to force Oleg to do anything (I do not see how we could) but just offering constructive suggestions to improve the game and make it even more fun. Oleg will do whatever he is interested and makes commercial sense, and so he should, we do not want 1C to get into money-making enterprises. An idea to gauge how commercially viable an SCW expansion would be is to run a poll, in this UBi forum and in others.

4) The Escuadrillas lost 19 pilots (dead or MIA) but this is not PLANES lost. 35 pilots (out of a total of 90) where dead, MIA, taken prisioner or wounded so seriously as to leave service. The escuadrillas carried out 5,492 missions and were involved in 606 aerial combats. Most of the missions seem to have been patrol, interception or escort,and the higher scoring pilot got 11 victories. Many were veterans of the SCW, (although this did not guarantee them a succesful tour of duty). Of their 159 victories, 58 were LaGG-3, 28 La-5, and 37 IL-2. These victories were awarded by the Luftwaffe (as usual, the pilots thought they had more kills http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif). Of course it is possible that rules were relaxed for allies for propaganda reasons, but then so they could have been relaxed to bolster national heroes. So in a way, if you believe that Hartmann scored 352 victories, you should not doubt the escuadrilla had 159 victories.

5)Last,but not least, a well-wish for a speedy recovery to Oleg; we can dream of Spain in a sim only because of him and his team.

TUCKIE.JG52
04-23-2005, 11:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
spaniards were not put inmediatly in flying duty, more, they were put aside or ignored by soviet commanders. They acted mainly as partisans, first. When they let'em fly were in rearguard security (PVO) not front, so not much action they saw. Other were in active units otherwise, but scatered, not forming never an all spanish VVS unit.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are well informed. Tha'ts right, at least for the several cases I know (Bravo, Zarauza, Fierro, etc...). But you half misunderstood us, just read well the Gadget's post.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
I believe development work must be focused in other areas, so please, what is done is done, u can mod the game to your convenience, don't see the point to force the developer to do so. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We can only change skins and little minor changes, but overwriting what is in game.

Remember te idea, we are suggesting things in this post, we are showing what we did. I think, and I'm not the only one, that we are not forcing anyone to anything...

jons1963
04-23-2005, 02:56 PM
un poquito de porfavor!!! ya estas tardando. oleg. gracias mil.

GADGET_101ECV
04-24-2005, 02:09 AM
Aqu√¬* tienen una oportunidad de hacer dinero con poco esfuerzo....

Allá de ellos si no tienen buén sentido del negocio. Qué lástima.

TUCKIE.JG52
04-24-2005, 08:26 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by killerbarby:
And more, if it seems you're developing your own sim depicting SCW, why do you ask 1C to do the same. Really weird, indeed. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But why? 2 simulators about the same are some sane competence... And quality goes forward with some competence...

And... could you define what "depicting" means for you? I don't want to see a despective view of our work in your words, please confirm what did you wanted to say.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Those old veterans agree with you? I can post many pictures of combat pilots and defend any idea about this sim. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't make me talk... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gifRemember that some of that veterans speaks russian perfectly... Wanna hear some recordings of them in russian? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Of course they are agree with a SCW simulator, most of them also looks enthusiast about it!

You said you can post many pictures of veterans supporting a sim, I understand that you refer to FB/AEP... That's nice. I prefer not to start here a yelling post about what the veterans point a realistic and what the veterans feel wrong...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>This is a game not a homage, this is not about defending democracy or anything like that is just doing something fun without doing any illegal, and also be profitable for developer (keep always this in mind). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am completely agree with that. If you are responding to Gadget, think that he referred to the 1936 menthality, not the present day one. Don't misunderstand that, please.

And another thing, it seems you are saying that an SCW simulator will not be profitable for the developer. Think it twice. With people so enthusiast like us behind, do you expect we are requesting money for that? It's a easier simulator to develop than others similar on the WWII side (less money to spend), and as I said repeatedly, there are a lot orf interest on it, inside an specially outside Spain.

I think I'll start making a market study about the possible success of an SCW simulator... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Maybe with numbers on hand you'll believe me... I know what am talking about... This is not a joke.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>If u want a homage for them there is a square dedicated to spanish pilots in VVS in Moscow, visit it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not necessary to make a homage, A simulator is not that. But are you telling us that Forgotten Battles is not a homage of the battles that has been forgot?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>How many squares in spanish cities dedicated to spanish republican aviators, even with left-wing governments in Spain since dictator's death? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Opposite as you can imagine,here are still many streets in many cities that are named Garc√¬*a Morato (one of the nationalist's top aces, killed in a crah just at the end of the war), and none or almost none of republican pilots.

But there are lots of monuments about international brigades, anonymous soldiers, and small homages like that.

It's a political theme, so politicians move that. Not us. And as I said, we are over the political view. We love planes, and in particular the SCW ones, no matter the side they flew.

Don't let be confused about that...

Tizona
04-24-2005, 04:30 PM
Impresive work man!


Respecto al matamuŮecas ese no te calientes la cabeza, dos posts solo para criticar? dile que si quiere que de la cara...

Ayak
04-25-2005, 12:49 AM
bump!

PD: no merece la pena tizona.

moist
04-25-2005, 05:40 AM
Keep on the good work, JuanT, Tuckie, and all the others...

Another virtual pilot that would like to see someday this project.

moist250, virtual pilot and WWII Online active soldier http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

jurinko
04-25-2005, 06:38 AM
I hope the sexual minorities will get its own - pink - default skins in the upcoming Spanish Expansion Pack.

evil_elvis1969
04-25-2005, 11:48 AM
I support the spanish recognition to contribution in the WWII, in both sides.

I don‚¬īt wanna defend a ideological pose.

the spanish il2 and simulation community is growing up and every day we are working to create the conditions to make it big.

you can make it easy, oleg.

sorry, my english is bad.


pues eso compaŮeros.

evil elvis escuadron69

http://escuadron69.hardgame.net/index.php

GSantini5
04-25-2005, 12:23 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Jurinko said:
"I hope the sexual minorities will get its own - pink - default skins in the upcoming Spanish Expansion Pack."



Hey, Jurinko: while that happens, you will not be able to make another thing that to use skins red or blue... unless you design one -pink -your same one http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

AsdeCopas
04-25-2005, 03:33 PM
Planes and maps of SCW in FB would be a dream came true for many of us. A nice tribute to those forgotten pilots/soldiers who gave their lifes for an ideal so enthusiastically, as only in the 30's Europe could be, despite their political commitment or nationality.

Here you can find some on-line missions based on SCW (sorry, briefs in spanish):

http://www.il2mania.com/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=70&func=selectfolder&filecatid=5

And here a nice compilation pack of great spanish skins (thks Tchaika and Aroman for your amazing work):

http://www.il2mania.com/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=70&func=fileinfo&parent=category&filecatid=67

Ayak
04-27-2005, 04:44 AM
great skin http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

JM_Negret
04-27-2005, 07:32 AM
Great idea Spain in FB and good work JuanT and TUCKIE.JG52.

PBNA-Boosher
04-27-2005, 07:39 AM
I think this is a great idea. I'm all for the addition of any country into the game!

Viva Espana!

(How do I get the tilde on the "n" with an English keypboard?)

avimimus
04-27-2005, 08:11 AM
If we keep talking long enough, I am sure Oleg will at least tell us what would be required to see and SCW expansion for BOB.

I bet if we provided research and modelled five or so aircraft it might become possible.

Ayak
04-27-2005, 10:11 AM
PBNA-Boosher try ASCII code Alt+164 = Ů http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

thx

TUCKIE.JG52
04-27-2005, 10:46 AM
Let's let Oleg rest, so he can recover from his 2 car chashes...

Meanwihile, we will keep upgrading this post with new info...

Better is still to come! SCW related contacts are being made quickly!

Ah, and thanks a lot for the support! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

BlackStar2000
04-27-2005, 02:20 PM
Im amazed, speachless, very nice job.

aroman.
04-27-2005, 03:25 PM
I think that the skinners community will be very interested in this proposition.

Jim_Beam1975
04-28-2005, 09:37 AM
Greetings. I have played with this game since the first Sturmovik, and I have seen a lot of countries a battlefields shown since then and during the next expanasions, FB, Ace and Pacific Fighters. I have nothing against none of them, it's quite interesting to remind that not only russians, germans, brits, americans and japanese fought that war. But in the Spanish Civil War most of them fought too. Also, the spanish fought too in Second World War. It's very simple. And interesting to leave know to people that our war served as a test for war tactics, technology and the first pulse against the main blocks contending in the Second World War. It's a shame to forgot this battle. Oleg, I hope you get well soon and remenber a car isn't a La-7. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
Salute!!

asmatic
04-28-2005, 03:56 PM
Yep, yes, spanish people fought on both sides of the war, and here in spain we have very motivated people that could collaborate with 1C games.

A SCW game will be very interesting. As far as I know no other sim has treated this piece of history before.

Oleg opened our eyes long before, discovering to us the "forgotten battles"... what other battle has been more forgotted than SCW?

S!

Tte.Costa
04-28-2005, 05:25 PM
S. All Gents!
Great work TUCKIE.JG52
SCW = 1rst. WWII battle.

LEXX_Luthor
04-28-2005, 06:53 PM
Tuckie::
And another thing, it seems you are saying that an SCW simulator will not be profitable for the developer. Think it twice. With people so enthusiast like us behind, do you expect we are requesting money for that? It's a easier simulator to develop than others similar on the WWII side (less money to spend), and as I said repeatedly, there are a lot orf interest on it, inside an specially outside Spain.

I think I'll start making a market study about the possible success of an SCW simulator... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Maybe with numbers on hand you'll believe me... I know what am talking about... This is not a joke.
<span class="ev_code_yellow">"Market Study"</span> did not predict Eastern Front succeeding in western market. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

But IL~2/FB succeeded! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Look at how accepted "unknown" Eastern Front became in the *western* market. IL~2/FB brings theater never done in WW2 flight sim, but FB now beats all other flight sims.

Spanish Civil WAR can attract people from all over the World. Every nation had pilots and airplanes fighting in SCW (except Japan -- they were busy else where. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif) For this reason, I suggest combining Spanish Civil WAR with Soviet~vs~Japan in China and Mongolia. Use the same planes for Soviets. Only need to add Japanese and a few others like USA Hawk~3 biplane.

Oleg should never have done Western Front in Aces Expansion Pac. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif He should have continued the "forgotten" theme and moved straight to Pacific and taken his time and done it Right, and then maybe more Eastern Front and SCW (I say Pacific is semi~forgotten battle). Western Front AEP did nothing for 1C/Oleg because FB showed you don't need to cater to the exact same 1944 Dogfighters that All other WW2 flight sims do (except Rowan's BoB).

Oleg posted at sukhoi that he would like to make Spanish Civil WAR -- but he needs to think independent, like he did when he made IL~2 sim.

avimimus
04-28-2005, 08:52 PM
I absolutely agree! Some of us had been waiting for the Russian Front for a long time and a lot of others discovered a whole new world.

The SCW is very marketable. It is the prologe to world war two. Volunteers from everywhere on both sides. The failure of the Democracies to prevent or counter the Facists.

The day Facism actually won in Europe.
The horror of war and the dying fight on the eve of one of the largest, bloodiest and most necessary clashes between giant movements of man, machine and thought.

In anycase more people need to read more about it (including me) and we need to remember.

SCW for IL-2!

Ayak
04-30-2005, 06:39 AM
bump http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

JG52Karaya-X
04-30-2005, 08:13 AM
BUMP for Spanish Civil War addon! From the day FB hit the shelves I've been waiting for the dev. of one...

The great thing about the SCW is that about every major country in the world was present with planes (and some with pilots too)

Just imagine Bf109B/C/D/Es vs I15s vs I153s vs I16s vs CR.32 vs CR.42s vs He111 vs Dewoitines vs S.M. bombers vs Tupolev SB bombers... (list goes on)


As Leadspitter already posted:
http://www.zi.ku.dk/personal/drnash/model/spain/did.html

Have a look at that site and drool http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

JuanT
05-01-2005, 04:20 AM
quote LEXX_Luthor:
_____________________________________________
Spanish Civil WAR can attract people from all over the World. Every nation had pilots and airplanes fighting in SCW (except Japan -- they were busy else where. ) For this reason, I suggest combining Spanish Civil WAR with Soviet~vs~Japan in China and Mongolia. Use the same planes for Soviets. Only need to add Japanese and a few others like USA Hawk~3 biplane.
________________________________________

Indeed good possibilities there. I have not researched this exaustively, but the Japanese apparently used Italian BR-20 bombers against Soviets in Mongolia, and had Breguets XIX and Heinkel 112 in China (unclear if in combat). Many others SCW planes saw action in the Med and early WWII years. Still, SCW was the only theatre where many interesting planes fought, like said He112 and Grumman FF1 (or G-23)(40 fought with the Republic since 1937).

Capt_Haddock
05-01-2005, 05:15 AM
What an incredible post, Tuckie.
With all that resarch material there's one thing certain: One day we will see a SCW flightim coming from you guys. It's just a question of time http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
For this reason, I suggest combining Spanish Civil WAR with Soviet~vs~Japan in China and Mongolia. Use the same planes for Soviets. Only need to add Japanese and a few others like USA Hawk~3 biplane.

That is a brilliant idea. It would become the perfect 1930's flightsim, an incredibly rich period in aviation never represented properly in games.

The variety of aeroplanes (from France, Britain, US, Japan, Germany, Soviet Union, Poland, Czechoslovakia, etc.) would make it reasonably marketable in any territory.

But if it was me, I'll stick to one theme at a time, developing small polished games that could be published online. As they say... cut out the middle man http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://www.haddock.f2s.com/sig/F19bannerh2.jpg

AsdeCopas
05-01-2005, 08:44 AM
Karaya Wrote:

Just imagine Bf109B/C/D/Es vs I15s vs I153s vs I16s vs CR.32 vs CR.42s vs He111 vs Dewoitines vs S.M. bombers vs Tupolev SB bombers... (list goes on)

Yes, It would be nice to have some dogfights with these planes on FB/BoB:

Nieuport 52:
http://www.terceraescuadrilla.com/almacen/personal/rojo/GCE/Perfiles/Ni52-2.jpg

He-51:
http://www.terceraescuadrilla.com/almacen/personal/rojo/GCE/Perfiles/He51-1.jpg

I-15:
http://www.terceraescuadrilla.com/almacen/personal/rojo/GCE/Perfiles/I15-3.jpg

Fiat CR.32:
http://www.terceraescuadrilla.com/almacen/personal/rojo/GCE/Perfiles/CR32-1.jpg

I-16 Type 5:
http://www.terceraescuadrilla.com/almacen/personal/rojo/GCE/Perfiles/I16-1.jpg

Bf-109B:
http://www.terceraescuadrilla.com/almacen/personal/rojo/GCE/Perfiles/bf.jpg

aroman.
05-02-2005, 07:09 AM
Did you know that very famous pilots as Galland and Moelders began their pilot‚¬īs careers in the Spanish Civil War?

Did you know that the first Bf-109 destroyed in dogfight by an American pilot was in the Spanish Civil War? The pilot was Frank W. Tinker.

paux2005
05-03-2005, 08:59 AM
bump

TUCKIE.JG52
05-07-2005, 12:30 PM
Bump...

A big post like my first one is incoming... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Capt_Haddock
05-07-2005, 01:59 PM
Originally posted by TUCKIE.JG52:
A big post like my first one is incoming... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Brilliant! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.haddock.f2s.com/sig/F19bannerh2.jpg

Ayak
05-09-2005, 05:21 AM
Great news tuckie http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

PD: Voy a estar sin internet durante un tiempo http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif, de momento no tengo acceso a mi direcci√¬≥n de correo electr√¬≥nico del escuadron 111.

MaxBruder
05-09-2005, 10:29 AM
WOW, I had no idea this was thread was going on. I have a real love for this country and it's people having lived there for 5 years. I surely hope this gets off the ground as it was important to WWII. This would be a very interesting addition to this great sim. Best of luck.

aroman.
05-10-2005, 05:51 AM
The skins represents Salas Larrazabal planes' in Russia.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v57/javimiau/Salas.jpg

TUCKIE.JG52
05-13-2005, 10:18 AM
Hi there again,

I advice, this is another long post. I'm sorry, but I have to say so
much just because we (I mean many individuals and the Proyecto SCW,
now in a more coordinated way) are moving so much! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

--------------------------------------------------------------------
PART #5

The individuals that are making skins for Spanish pilots in WWII are
evolutioning their creations. They are JuanT, Aroman, Adfn, Canon and
others. Just to show what they did, look this:

http://photos10.flickr.com/13544719_d36845377a.jpg

http://photos10.flickr.com/13544720_cf0db97a3e.jpg

http://photos11.flickr.com/13544721_ac93117a1a_o.jpg

http://photos9.flickr.com/13544722_578aab3eb2_o.jpg

http://photos9.flickr.com/13544723_4fc0dd608a.jpg

http://photos9.flickr.com/13544724_8f1e63495d.jpg

I have only posted here some (not all) of the pictures that were used
to create the skins.
Of course, those individuals are grabbing more photographic evidences
(not profiles, most of them are wrong) that permits to create more and
more skins. I refer to pictures like this:

http://photos11.flickr.com/13545750_98e38fec23.jpg

http://photos11.flickr.com/13545749_298c8ea9a0_o.jpg

And also, Canon did its skin about Francisco MeroŮo Pellicer's La5,
from 960 IAP-PVO, Moscow, winter 1942-43
http://www.canons-skins.com/MoronoPellicer.jpg
Taken from Cannon's web:
http://www.canons-skins.com/

TUCKIE.JG52
05-13-2005, 10:18 AM
PART #6

Retuning back to the SCW theme‚‚ā¨¬¶
As I said, there are some Spanish Civil War veterans that are able to
speak in Russian, due to they made its way to escape from Spain at the
end of the war (so they fought with the losing side) and could
establish in URSS for a long time. Most of them also fought in PVO
units, flying planes as Spitfire, Kingcobra, Hurricane, Yak-7, Yak-9,
P-40, La-5‚‚ā¨¬¶

One of them, I mentioned yet, was Andrés Fierro Menu. We interviewed
him and requested to say some of the responses in both Russian and
Spanish.

Here you can see a picture from a moment of that interview:

http://photos7.flickr.com/10846785_9cd30dddbd_o.jpg

Thanks to the Proyecto SCW developer, Khiro, who took the picture. In
my hand, there is my Nokia 6600, the recording device, and the
Fierro's book. Well, I have cut apart, from the wav recording, the
moments in which Fierro spoke in Russian. Some Russian friends (thanks
to Constantino and Rum!), has translated the recording, so they assure
it is understandable. But of course, Mr. Fierro has a strong accent.
If you are Russian speaker, you can download the recording from here.

http://www.jagdgeschwader52.com/tuckie/fierro%20in%20russian.zip
Thanks to the spanish III/Jg52 for the hosting of the file!

In the two recordings contained in that zip file, Fierro is saying how
the Shkas had to be fired to avoid it's stopping: in very short burst.
If not, the Shkas stopped. It was very difficult to think on it when a
plane was on the sights‚‚ā¨¬¶

In the other recording, Mr. Fierro describes how can be the propeller
used as a saw for cutting enemy's vertical tails during the Taran
manoeuvre.

Also, we showed Fierro a video in FB made by Gimix, Caraperro, Rojo
and more from the 3‚¬™ Escuadrilla ( www.terceraescuadrilla.com (http://www.terceraescuadrilla.com) ). See
the pictures:

http://photos9.flickr.com/11304961_c22a121ec6_o.jpg
A Fiat CR-32, painted as a SCW Fiat CR-32 (so we still have not the
correct version in FB, we have to use the CR-42), burns out while
Fierro observes that.

http://photos10.flickr.com/11304960_3c905b8e7e_o.jpg
Another Fiat is attacking a Katiuska, painted as an SCW one.

http://photos7.flickr.com/11305138_bb624a2c8f_o.jpg
Video in pause showing I'16's Type 18 cockpit, and Mr. Fierro pointing
at the instruments telling us how similar and also different was the
Type 10 cokpit.

More things. This is not strictly on the subject we are talking here,
it's just to tell the thing clearly. Someone yelled us that here in
Spain does not exist any homage to the Russian pilots. Once again,
this one was wrong. We have no pictures by now, but there is a huge
and big homage, no only about those pilots; it's about all soviet
personnel that fell in our war. This monument is in the cemetery of
Fuencarral. It's 4 or 5 meters high and it has all the names of the
soviets that fall here. I say this only to make it clear, but I
repeat: politics for politicians, and aeronautics for us‚‚ā¨¬¶

TUCKIE.JG52
05-13-2005, 10:19 AM
PART #7

As I said, contacts are being made. "Supermosca" an "Nikolai", offered us
some "high value pearls" so we can access to some material and use it for better represent the SCW.

-SuperMosca made this picture. It is a recent (in fact, it has been taken the
day after my last big post here) homage-meeting on the remaining
republican pilots or air personnel and their families. There are some
that still alive and I know that could not go there At least there are
30 more alive in several places that are not in the picture. The
airmen in the picture are in front of a CASA CN-235 air transport
plane of the spanish Ejercito del Aire (Spanish Air Army):
http://photos6.flickr.com/10848445_77e7c4ff13_o.jpg
Can you imagine what all they can explain? There are little groups in
which part of a squadron is still alive. In some cases, the complete
patrol of 3 pilots is alive.

- Also, Nikolai has investigated many plane crash sites,
identifying from who was the plane crashed and when. For example, he
took this gifts from them:

http://photos10.flickr.com/11305140_7da2f601be_o.jpg

http://photos7.flickr.com/11305141_4ed458abda_o.jpg

http://photos9.flickr.com/11305142_7cf7580047_o.jpg

I know, someone will tell that the colour may be degraded after 60
years under the ground. The fact is that the weather of the zone it
was found was the ideal to conserve the colours "as is".
Because that, we are starting to study the way to realistically
translate this colours into some RGB, Pantone standard, or digital
ones, so we can paint skins, from now on, that will be fully
historically correct, no matter the simulator it uses those skins. Of
course we will not use those pictures for that work, it is obvious
that the white balance, light and sensor of the digital cameras can
distort the real colors a bit. Because that, I said "we are studying
how to do that". Don't want misunderstandings here.
Also, we have to consider that this colour is a little part from one
plane, so more evidences has to be collected; there may be another
planes painted in a different way.

-SuperMosca also offers for our study some real Shkas ammunition and
one of the three unique copies (taken from the only original in the
world) of the de-piece drawings that were used in Spain to build under
license the I-16. I'm talking about 200 DIN A3 pages, showing all the
I-16 pieces. With that info on hand, I think an I-16 can be fully
modelled in 3D following the BoB standards. As I saw, BoB models the
interior parts of the planes. This can be done with that, but of
course, studying and investigating the exact variants that were
imported or built here. In the next picture you can see it, the
ammunition over the drawings, so you can compare it's overall size.
http://photos8.flickr.com/11305143_bac981f603_o.jpg

-This men also studied carefully the remains of the following ancient
SCW aerodromes: Valls, Vendrell, la Torre del Moro, Toro, La Garriga,
liria, Alcublas, la Cenia, el Carmol√¬*, Barracas, Caspe, SariŮena,
Camporrobles, CareŮo, Colunga, Llanes‚‚ā¨¬¶ All of them have some kind of
remaining structures, and some served in both sides when changed hands
on the National's advance. In a future post I hope I'll be able to
show some pictures.

It all goes on our idea's line. We want to represent the reality as it
was, don't want, as someone said "to depict our own SCW air war" (as I
understand "depicting" as a distortion of the history).

TUCKIE.JG52
05-13-2005, 10:20 AM
PART #8

Historically investigation is difficult, often disperse, but here are
a lot of identified individuals who have huge data and resources to
establish what SCW was. Also there are several monographic and HUGE
archives, written, sound recorded, and video recorded, on SCW theme.
The spanish Ejercito del Aire (spanish air army) has one big archive
in the Villaviciosa de Odon's castle that can be accessible only
requiring an investigator access card that it is not difficult to
gain. But there are much more archives, private and public ones.

In Spanish filmotheque there are some video images about recordings or
simulated attacks that the Legion Condor did. One of them is the
recreation of the Vilajuiga attack On February 6, 1939, Vilajuiga was
the last aerodrome of the Republica in Catalunya, the remaining planes
were straffed by a far numerically superior National planes, and the
ones that survived had to evade, passing the France border. Some days
later, Nationals took the aerodrome, and Legion Condor recorded a
simulated attack with cameras on the ground.

We are looking for a similar video recording in wich Legion Condor
recorded a simulated aerial combat, just after the war, between a
CR-32, an I-15, a 109 and an I-16. The pilot of the CR-32 was the
famous National ace Joaqu√¬*n Garc√¬*a Morato. When recodings finished,
Morato did some aerobatic manoeuvres, and ended its live fatally
crashing on the ground. Just when the war finished‚‚ā¨¬¶

Also, an historical association in Castell√¬≥n was able to find a
coloured movie with some minutes showing some He-45 and He-51 in
flight. This is an image taken from it:

http://www.aire.org/portal/images/noticias/gce_bomb.jpg
Image taken from www.aire.org (http://www.aire.org)

Aeroteca's aerial book shop in Barcelona ( www.aeroteca.com (http://www.aeroteca.com) ) has the
property of another archive (created by Abell√°n), of general aviation,
but it has some SCW part. Only opening the Polikarpov I-15's file, we
could finally establish precisely how it was the real CA-125 I-15
(that it used to be suspectedly wrongly painted in several color
profiles). And I say suspectedly, because we know that planes were
often repainted. The question is that the photographic evidence of the
CA-125 is very different from some profiles done.

See the suspected wrong wrong (sorry for the author, dunno who it was):
http://photos8.flickr.com/11469269_a43259e634_o.jpg

Maybe this was to a painter's mistake. This plane is the Calvo's one.
He was not the chief of 2‚¬ļ Escuadrilla de Chatos, and only the Chief
of that Escuadrilla had the number painted on white (Vinyals). The
question is that, in the rendition day, Calvo leaded the planes that
were on the way to rendition, flying in front of all to guide them to
the ordered landing field, that we knew perfectly so he was born in
the zone. But leading the Escuadrilla did not meant that he was the
leader, so his CA-125 number was in black as the other pilots of his
squad. See the correct CA-125, as it was, whose picture was taken from
Aeroteca's Abellan archive with permission:
http://photos10.flickr.com/11457168_b6ad2f9d70_o.jpg

And more on that archive. We copied and scanned with permission a
fac-simile copy of the instruction manual for the packaging, assembly
and maintenance of the M-25 engine. It is in Spanish, so it's a
factory's done manual, see the cover:
http://photos9.flickr.com/13409358_5071ee7314_o.jpg

Meanwhile, Proyecto SCW's engineers still measuring planes and
grabbing data in the spanish Museum of the Air. See the real Fiat
CR-32 measurement to gain precise data on its airfoil:
http://photos6.flickr.com/10846786_3014039c63_o.jpg

TUCKIE.JG52
05-13-2005, 10:21 AM
PART #9

A big effort is been done from the Tercera Escuadrilla's forum in
documenting well for skin makers. One of those post it this (skin
makers are welcome, feel free to post in English!):
http://www.terceraescuadrilla.com/foro/viewtopic.php?t=980

As an example, I repeat here the info I posted about a very famous
I-16, the CM-193 first piloted by Jose Mar√¬*a Bravo and later by
Francisco Tarazona. I have all this evidences:

From the left side, a piece of a famous picture in which Bravo points
to his mechanics a bullet hole. On the fuselage, you can see the "C",
and it is partially over the red band. (but be careful: we are not
sure about if this is the CM-193 or not):
http://photos7.flickr.com/12134970_bae74317fe_o.jpg

Another famous picture, Bravo getting sabed by its mechanic, almos all
the CM-193 code is visible from the right, and also the double six of
the domino piece on the tail:
http://photos8.flickr.com/12134973_646dba3bac_o.jpg

Later, Tarazona pilots the plane, here you can see again the double six...
http://photos9.flickr.com/12135102_d21e06ca0d_o.jpg

So, it is clear that this picture, often used to inspire skins, is not
good. But why?
http://photos8.flickr.com/11460511_90684bc18b_o.jpg

Just because this is a known fake. The original picture is this (complete):
http://photos11.flickr.com/12134972_6268a7fe9b_o.jpg

There are profiles of different grades of quality:

http://photos9.flickr.com/12135101_26d2ef78d1_o.jpg
This looks approx, but incorrect if we can take the C of the left side
picture as the CM193.

http://photos11.flickr.com/12135099_d0bc99ad35_o.jpg
This commits a different mistake; the C is too much incide the red band...

http://photos11.flickr.com/12135100_18e636467f_o.jpg
In this picture, the double six has been ignored on the right side!
Also, the CM-193 code position does not correspond to the Bravo's
shaving picture.

http://photos8.flickr.com/12134969_e3c415b013_o.jpg
This does not looks so clear, but it seems correct.

http://photos10.flickr.com/12135103_0b779def8d_o.jpg
The one painted like a CM-193 in Wanaka; number seems correct, but
double six is a bit oversized...

http://photos8.flickr.com/12134971_89cbc242f6_o.jpg
The same plane from the other side. Again the double six is oversized,
and the CM-193 code position does not correspond with Bravo's shaving
picture...

This is mosto f the CM-193 that I found there. There were a lot of
little mistakes, that profile painters copied each other, creating
versions that each time were less history friendly. The 193 fake also
confused a lot, but it has been unmasked by others before us and now
we are just telling it...

TUCKIE.JG52
05-13-2005, 10:22 AM
PART 10

This one is additional, because may be of interest. Here exists some
foundations that intends to recover old planes. Proyecto SCW has
loosely contacts with some of them, but we want to get those contacts
firm.

One is "Fundaci√¬≥n Infante de Orleans", and it was able to recentŮy buy
one of the I-16's that were flying in Wanaka, New Zealand. The
concretely plane to buy was chosen and now it is in process of being
painted:

http://www.aire.org/portal/images/noticias/wki16003.jpg
It will be painted as a Jose Mar√¬*a Bravo's plane, but it is not clear
which one; the CM-193 or the CM-249. The information and the picture
were taken from www.aire.og (http://www.aire.og).
Note that there was an I-16 in Wanaka that it was already painted like
the CM-193, but it seems that the plane chosen for buying it was not
that. Keep in mind that is a flyable plane, so FIO chosed the one it
found better, no matter it's paintings so it will be repainted.

Another foundation like that is the "Fundaci√¬≥n A√©rea de la Comunidad
Valenciana": allegated to they are constructing a real I-16, with all
functional gear instruments and engine, but it will not fly to
preserve it. Sooner or later, we'll able to directly contact them.

And a third organisation is "Parc Aeron√°utic de Catalunya": they have,
among other goods, a I-15 replica in 2/3 scale, done from original
schemes until its constructor died. It was donated to that
association.

And another organisation is "Asociaci√¬≥n de Aviaci√¬≥n Experimental";
they build planes for flying them in a semi-amateur working. They have
an ULM of an I-15 on process:
http://www.algoritmolucus.com/AlbumAAE/index.html
http://photos10.flickr.com/13414461_1c22c14842_o.jpg

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, I think I said it all again. With C1 developing effort centered in BoB, we understand that the FB
series are reaching its end and, at most, they're going to be a test
field for BoB ideas. This is not the best scenery for starting a SCW
project over FB. With this in mind, and knowing how busy Oleg can be
while returning to work after his unfortunate car crashes (get well
man), we just dare to ask the following:

1.- In FB, include Spain as either one, or two countries (Blue and red)

2.- Information, requisites and norms for being a 3rd party develop
group for BoB, as other groups are already starting to work in that
way.

We strongly think that SCW can have its place in BoB enviroment and
that SCW Group can help to this objective.

Tizona
05-13-2005, 11:35 AM
Again, impressive compilation work, awesome http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif


All my support for a spanish slot in FB and the possibility of developing historically accurate missions in the eastern front.

asmatic
05-13-2005, 12:50 PM
Tuckie: simply awesome!

Oleg: get well soon!

S!

E111_Alfil
05-13-2005, 02:14 PM
Very good job indeed.

I agree with you, we need at least one Spanish unit in FB.

One more reason:

SPAIN
World War II
LUFTWAFFE
NAME VICTORIES UNITS
Hevia Alvarez-Quinones, Gonzalo 12 15.(Span)/JG 51
Cuadra Medina, Mariano 10 15.(Span)/JG 51
Gavilan Ponce de Le√¬≥n, Jos√© Ramon 9 15.(Span)/JG 51
Sanchez-Arjona Courtoy, Fernando 9 15.(Span)/JG 51
Aldecoa Lecanda, Vincente 7 15.(Span)/JG 27
Arango-L√¬≥pez, D√°maso 7 15.(Span)/JG 51
Salas Larraz√°bal, √¬Āngel 7 15.(Span)/JG 27
Azqueta-Brunet, Luis 6 15.(Span)/JG 51
Fernandez PeŇ"ěa, Lorenzo Lucas 6 15.(Span)/JG 51
Meneses Orozco, Bernardo 6 15.(Span)/JG 51
Sanchez-Tabernero de Prada, Manuel 6 15.(Span)/JG 51
Valiente Zarraga, Francisco 6 15.(Span)/JG 51
Al√¬≥s Herrero, Antonio 5 15.(Span)/JG 51
Arango-L√¬≥pez, Jos√© 5 15.(Span)/JG 51
Manuel Perez MuŇ"ěoz, Julio 5 15.(Span)/JG 51
BaraŇ"ěao Mart√¬*nez, Emilio 4 15.(Span)/JG 51
Bengoechea Menchaco, Manuel 4 15.(Span)/JG 51
Cavanilles Berreterre, José 4 15.(Span)/JG 51
Llaca-Alvaréz, José 4 15.(Span)/JG 51
Mateos Recios, José 4 15.(Span)/JG 51
Bayo Alessandri, Carlos 3 15.(Span)/JG 27
Calleja, Rafael 3 15.(Span)/JG 51
Ferandiz, Carlos 3 15.(Span)/JG 51
Galarza-Sanchéz, Felippe 3 15.(Span)/JG 51
Guibert, Javier-Mar√¬*a 3 15.(Span)/JG 51
Martinez Vara del Rey, Miguel 3 15.(Span)/JG 51
Beria√¬*n Arbilla, Franzisco Javier 2 15.(Span)/JG 51
Escalante de la Lasta, Gerardo 2 15.(Span)/JG 51
Escudé Gisbert, Ramon 2 15.(Span)/JG 51
Frutos Rubio, Juan 2 15.(Span)/JG 51
Ibarreche Arriaga, Esteban 2 15.(Span)/JG 27
Pérez-Gonzáles, Alejandro 2 15.(Span)/JG 51
Robles, Andres 2 15.(Span)/JG 51
Salvador Di√°z-Benjumea, Julio 2 15.(Span)/JG 51
Allende-Isasi, Javier 1 15.(Span)/JG 51
Arango-Lopéz, José 1 15.(Span)/JG 51
Arraiza Goni, Javier 1 15.(Span)/JG 51
Bengoa Cremades, Fernando 1 15.(Span)/JG 51
Chicharro Lammamié de Clairac 1 15.(Span)/JG 51
de Pena, Juan 1 15.(Span)/JG 51
Garc√¬*a-L√¬≥pez Rengel, Ar√¬*stides 1 15.(Span)/JG 27
Garret-Rueda, Federico 1 15.(Span)/JG 51
Lacourt Macia, José Andres 1 15.(Span)/JG 27
LaCruz Cuerva, Carmelo 1 15.(Span)/JG 51
Lafuente 1 15.(Span)/JG 51
Luca Tena y Laso, Ram√¬≥n 1 15.(Span)/JG 51
Medrano de Pedro, Luis 1 15.(Span)/JG 51
Navarro Peréz, Antonio 1 15.(Span)/JG 51
Pareja-N√¬ļŇ"ěez, Enrique 1 15.(Span)/JG 51
Recasens Garriga, José 1 15.(Span)/JG 51
Rifolles, José Maria 1 15.(Span)/JG 51
Rosello Simonet, Juan 1 15.(Span)/JG 51
Serra Alorda, Salvador 1 15.(Span)/JG 51
Serra Pablo-Romero, Carlos 1 15.(Span)/JG 51
Teixidor Rodr√¬*gues, Carlos 1 15.(Span)/JG 51
Urgiola, Antonio 1 15.(Span)/JG 51

SPAIN
World War II
VVS SSSR (Vojenno VozduŇ°nyje Sily SSSR)
NAME VICTORIES UNITS
Lario Sanchez, Juan 35 [27+8] 108, 127, 348 IAP
Beltran, Vicente 20 960 IAP PVO, 1 by ramming
MeroŇ"ěo Pellicer, Francisco 20 960 IAP
Pascual Santamaria, José 14 283, 788 IAP
Zarauza Claver, Manuel 7 961, 481 IAP
Garc√¬*a Cano, Antonio 6+ 1 IAB, 573 IAP PVO
Bonilla, Domingo 5+ 178 IAP
Larranaga, José Luis 5 591 IAP
Sánchez Montes, José 4
Ménu, Andrés Fierro 2 439 IAP
Uribe, Antonio 2 36 IAD
Arias, Antonio 2 [1+1] 283, 964, 439 IAP

‚°Sus y a ellos!

paux2005
05-13-2005, 04:54 PM
Fantastic
Great Job http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

JuanT
05-14-2005, 03:57 AM
I am totally behind Tuckie's proposal:

Quote:
-----------------------------------------------
1.- In FB, include Spain as either one, or two countries (Blue and red)

2.- Information, requisites and norms for being a 3rd party develop group for BoB, as other groups are already starting to work in that
way.
----------------------------------------------

I think we are showing that with a little go ahead from the developers, the Spanish (or rather Spain-SCW-interested)community could contibute new aspects to the game for all to enjoy.

A reminder that a discusion thread with a similar theme in Spanish can be found at:

http://www.terceraescuadrilla.com/foro/viewtopic.php?t=915

with 2,600 views and 133 contributions

DIRTY-MAC
05-14-2005, 08:23 AM
I think wahat you are doing is awsome!
its a really important thing, ceep it up http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
have you contact Oleg about it?

GADGET_101ECV
05-15-2005, 12:55 AM
Tuckie, I have news that the Wanaka I-16 is receiving only the priming and basic paint scheme there. It will be added numerals, details, and squadron marks when it arrives to Fundaci√¬≥n Infante de Orleans, Madrid, in order to have precise and correct markings.

Mr. Jos√© Mar√¬*a Bravo will supervise all this operation personally, so the finishing job will be extremely accurate. On the other hand, you know that Mr. Bravo grew a long beard (unusual for him) a few months ago, and somebody suggested to re-create the famous barber scene for the CM-193 public presentation some 64 years later. It will be really emotive.

http://photos8.flickr.com/12134973_646dba3bac_o.jpg
http://photos7.flickr.com/10224872_abb1b3f6ac_o.jpg

E69_Darkness
05-15-2005, 03:02 AM
Hey Tuckie, you don‚¬īt only drink beer when you go to Madrid as I see!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Very impressive work Tuckie!!! I hope that Oleg can see this effort and I think he will be impressive too, this is amazing! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Ayak
05-16-2005, 03:52 AM
lol http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif Your girlfriend must be in favor furious of the time that you use in this project, luck! and thanks for the work http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

CapStratos
05-16-2005, 10:17 AM
I believe that we need to add Spain as a flyable squadron in Il-2 they made a contribution not only in planes but also in ground forces called the Blue Division that make some important fights like the Volkhov river bridgehead in Nov'41.
And also some of the planes are used in WW2 like the Cr-32

TheGozr
05-16-2005, 08:34 PM
Just thinking about those Russian Fighters if they were not killed in battles they were by stalin back Home.

The Bucker 131 Jungmann and 133 Jungmeister should be in the airplanes list as well.

voivod74
05-17-2005, 05:00 AM
Impresionante trabajo y gracias por el esfuerzo.

Great job

E111_Voivod

paux2005
05-17-2005, 12:53 PM
bump

Tizona
05-20-2005, 11:12 AM
bumpage

JuanT
05-21-2005, 04:43 AM
Here you have some of the medals from my Spanish 'Escuadrillas azules' pack:

http://img282.echo.cx/img282/6656/medallasazulesmedium3ow.jpg

the whole pack with ranks, icon and background picture, and installations instruction and notes in english and spanish can be can be downloaded from:

http://www.il2mania.com/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=70&func=fileinfo&parent=category&filecatid=78

TUCKIE.JG52
05-21-2005, 05:34 AM
Nice medals, JuanT! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

And thanks all for the support...

Stay tuned to this post... I have to announce to all that... anoder long post like my lasts ones is on the way... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

JuanT
05-25-2005, 03:27 PM
And these are the Spanish Republican medals

http://img7.echo.cx/img7/408/republicamedalsshot7jg.jpg

The Republican folder can be downloaded here

http://www.il2mania.com/index.php?option=com_remository...ategory&filecatid=49 (http://www.il2mania.com/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=70&func=fileinfo&parent=category&filecatid=49)

again with readme in english and spanish. This folder creates a 'none' nation in the game with these medals and spanish ranks, icon, background picture, menu and crash music and takeoff sounds.

But this still is not satisfactory. We could do much more if only a proper spanish regiment, or two, were in the game.

TheGozr
05-25-2005, 05:47 PM
Who are from Spain here and from where?

Thx

paux2005
05-26-2005, 06:50 AM
I am spanish from Barcelona http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

bolillo_loco
05-26-2005, 06:58 AM
yes more latinas should play this game!

Tte.Costa
05-26-2005, 09:17 AM
From Formentera (Balearic Islands) Spain

CapStratos
05-28-2005, 12:18 PM
From Amposta Tarragona

TheGozr
05-28-2005, 12:50 PM
Do you mean Hispanics or latins ? differents countries there http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

SO anyone knows the Bucker ?

I'm glad to see some Spanish Pilots here.
I was looking for a team of mix spanish pilots to represent Spain in international fights.

fulcrum29smt
05-28-2005, 09:32 PM
Originally posted by TheGozr:
Do you mean Hispanics or latins ? differents countries there http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

SO anyone knows the Bucker ?

I'm glad to see some Spanish Pilots here.
I was looking for a team of mix spanish pilots to represent Spain in international fights.

Yes we know the Bu-133 Jungmeister "La Bucker" as we call her, the Hispano Aviacion built a licensed version and we still have some number of them.

Some are on aeronautical museums or in hands of private pilots, and the one I know it's still flying with the Fundacion Infante de Orleans with of course, a new engine. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

You'll can see it on: http://www.fio.es/museo/jungman.htm

I hope you enjoy this. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
fulcrum29smt

fulcrum29smt
05-28-2005, 09:43 PM
Sorry I was wrong on one thing. I thought it was the Hispano Aviacion who built the Bucker licensed aircraft but as the article from the Fundacion Infante de Orlean says it was CASA (Construcciones Aeronauticas S.A.) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

TheGozr
05-28-2005, 10:08 PM
I know exactly who built them i was there 3 weeks ago testing a new and unique one in Albacete http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif with Jesus factory owner and Juan his son. It's a great plane even if the engine is a bit weak.

The 125 and 150. each engine have their own advantages.

TUCKIE.JG52
05-30-2005, 10:50 AM
Well, I'd said another big post is incoming, but this will be at least in a month, due to hard work on Proyecto SCW.

But I have something important to announce:

We are back in english! Now we have a translator again (thanks Tizona!) and the most impoertant news and interviews are being translated.

The direct URL to Proyecto SCW in english is:
http://scw.hardgame.net/index.php?newlang=english

STAY TUNED!



The Gozr, I'm from Barceloba, Catalonia, Spain.

TheGozr
05-30-2005, 05:48 PM
I'm 1/2 French ( Montpellier )and 1/2 Spanish from La Adrada(Sartajada,toledo,Talavera de la reina) Now in the USA

CapStratos
06-07-2005, 02:10 PM
Bumpity bump!!!

DuxCorvan
06-08-2005, 06:58 AM
Here, here, from Santander... Living in C√°diz now!

Bump bump bump bump...

RE-BUMP!!!!

BTW, I have an interesting book, the memories of Captain La Calle, from the First Escuadrilla de Chatos, published in 1970 in Mexico.

It's impressive.

DuxCorvan
06-08-2005, 07:09 AM
Originally posted by JuanT:
Here you have some of the medals from my Spanish 'Escuadrillas azules' pack:
(..)
the whole pack with ranks, icon and background picture, and installations instruction and notes in english and spanish can be can be downloaded from:

http://www.il2mania.com/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=70&func=fileinfo&parent=category&filecatid=78


Sorry, but... no San Hermenegildo Order decorations? They were -and are- important indeed...

http://www.chivalricorders.org/orders/images/stherm1.jpg http://www.chivalricorders.org/orders/images/stherm4.jpg

TUCKIE.JG52
06-11-2005, 12:58 PM
Bump!

We did not forget this post, more info is OTW!!!

Guerreroestoy
06-13-2005, 06:59 PM
Veo que nadie del equipo de Oleg contesta ni dice nada en este hilo. Igual esto da pistas...

http://es.msnusers.com/tjekl1ehvlrbghi3lto7du6qq5/Documentos/Im%C3%A1genes%2Fsim2.jpg

Os preguntareis que es esta imagen?

Mirar aqui >>

Nuevo SIM (http://blazing-angels.com/uk/)

Fijaros bien en los titulos (copy) de la page oficial, creo que pone algo de C1, igual tenemos que pasarnos a la X BOX http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Saludos

showboat1971
06-14-2005, 12:25 PM
As an American I have always been fascinated by the Spanish Civil War but find it hard to get good info on it. I've played alot of Steel PAnthers: World at War and some of my favorite scenarios deal with the Spanish Civil War. Adding both sides of the Civil War would be a plus for this game.

GerritJ9
06-15-2005, 04:57 AM
For general information on the Spanish Civil War, read Antony Beevor's book "The Spanish Civil War"; my copy is a Penguin pocket, ISBN 0-14-100148-8.

Tizona
06-17-2005, 09:56 AM
And for a first approach to the aerial warfare in the Spanish Civil War, you may find interesting these websites:

‚∑ Airplanes involved: http://www.zi.ku.dk/personal/drnash/model/spain/SpainAir.htm
‚∑ American aviators involved: http://www.libs.uga.edu/flyers/

TUCKIE.JG52
06-26-2005, 11:00 AM
Bump!

Awesome information in this subject to come...

http://photos17.flickr.com/21658233_5113c6a40a_o.jpg

OrkaJG52
06-26-2005, 08:43 PM
Toma "parriba", que se te vea el careto, que las babas ya estan limpias XD

LEXX_Luthor
06-26-2005, 10:21 PM
Just found this...a ShareWare SCW flight sim for DOS (1990s)

SPANISHW.EXE -Version 2.3- 2,57 M

~~> http://www.sanchez-j.nom.fr/spaniswe.htm

JuanT
07-10-2005, 04:14 AM
After the saga of the patch, we would like to retake our request for the inclusion of Spain in the game in any forthcoming patch or add-on (with all those extra planes in the development page) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
In this post I would like to show how the maps included in FB/PF provide the scenarios where the spanish squadrons fought. The diagrams with the movements and aerodromes of the spanish squadrons I have taken, and modified, from the article by the spanish air force general J. Salas-Larrazabal in the journal Aeroplano, n.2. The portions I have included in colour and with details in them are the PF/FB maps.

The 1a Escuadrilla was classed as an assault Jabo staffel and mostly flew ground attack missions. It operated from Octuber 1941 to January 1942 following the german advance and retreat from Moscow. They flew Bf109E-4/B. As you can see in the map

http://img83.echo.cx/img83/6583/1ellamovements3ba.jpg

their theatre of action and airbases are well included in the Smolensk and Moscow maps.Klin can be simulated in the NE corner of the Moscow map, over the railway and road from Solnechnogorsk. In the Smolensk map, in the NE corner there is a city called Belyi, which may be what Salas calls Bieloy, located nearby.The expedition to Kalinin can be simulated with the map Online1 winter, that includes a city near a river and lakes (Volga) and crossed by a main road. The Starica air base can be simulated in one of the airfields near the SO corner.
After retreating from Kalinin, the 1a escuadrilla operated from Klin, that also had to evacuate before the russian winter offensive. A very interesting and agitated campaing http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

The 2a escuadrilla operated from June to December 1942 and was classed as a fighter staffel, like all the forthcoming escuadrillas. It flew Bf109F. It operated from Orel to cover the left flank of the german summer offensive of 1942.

http://img181.echo.cx/img181/8910/2ellamovements6wp.jpg

The 3a escuadrilla arrived at Orel in December de 1942 until June 1943. This can be reproduced in the Kursk map, they having to defend their SE sector from the russian spring offensive. In April they changed the Bf109 for Fw190 A4 and a patrol was sent to Smolensk to help cover the german retreat from Viasma. Again an interesting campaing, with a change of plane included http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://img83.echo.cx/img83/3994/3aellamovements1xo.jpg

The 4a escuadrilla is as interesting and agitated as the 1a. Arrived at Orel in June 1943, it joined in the operation Citadelle (map Kursk). With the russian counterattack and 1943 autumm offensive , it retreated to Smolensk, Orsha y Star-Bichov. This locality does not appear in the Smolensk map but it can be simulated at Mogilev. Costant combats (1.918 missions, 274 air combats, 74 kills, 50% pilots lost) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif against a VVS clearly on the up, until February 1944. They flew Bf109G.

http://img83.echo.cx/img83/2765/4ellamovimientos7xl.jpg

The 5a escuadrilla only acted briefly and outside the FB maps.

As you can see, FB includes all the maps for an accurate and historical simulation of the spanish Escuadrillas azules in the East. So why not to include them Oleg?

waffen-79
07-10-2005, 06:46 PM
...BUMP...

Hola un SALUDO a toda la comunidad EspaŮola de pilotos virtuales desde M√©xico.

Pues ya fue liberado el parche 4.01m y aun no ha sido incluida EspaŮa, que DECEPCI”N!!!

Ojala y en el pr√¬≥ximo parche (si es que hay alguno...aun no pierdo las esperansas de un Ar-234 flyable) la incluyan, ya que su contribucion a ambos lados es bien sabida y documentada. habr√° que hacer MAS ruido http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Oleg, vamos incluyela!!!

JuanT
07-12-2005, 07:40 AM
Thanks waffen-79. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Perhaps one day we will also see Mexico in the game...

Gracias waffen-79. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Quizas algun dia veamos a Mexico tambien en el juego...

odisea2005
07-25-2005, 11:06 AM
Me parece una verguenza que no se haya traducido al espaŮol el FB

Tizona
07-26-2005, 04:46 AM
Just a bump for this interesting and very well documented petition. Come on Oleg...


Also, on a side note, maybe some of you find interesting this article: http://scw.aviadoresvirtuales.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=315

It's a report of the SCW historian Isaac Montoya, where he describes the process of investigating the crash site of the I-16 CM-264, downed in the Ebro river Battle.

In the article you can see detailed parts recovered like these:

http://photos21.flickr.com/26096473_a6476db0d2_o.jpg

http://photos23.flickr.com/26096472_da80aa16bf_o.jpg

Enjoy!

Tizona
07-28-2005, 08:03 AM
...and the explanation of what was doing Tuckie (aside from drooling http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ) in that photo some posts above:

Video: visual panorama from a I-16 Type 10 cockpit (http://scw.aviadoresvirtuales.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=319) (7.73 Mb)

http://photos23.flickr.com/29187626_1ac9853e93_o.jpg

charrua5
07-28-2005, 12:22 PM
Que buen trabajo que han realizado http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

Luftwaffe_109
07-31-2005, 03:24 AM
Bump

CapStratos
07-31-2005, 04:28 PM
Chicos!! De que La Cenia estais hablando en vuestra pagina web?? De la Cenia del sur de CataluŮa?? Estoy a menos de 20km de all√¬* y me encantaria ir y hacer unas fotos del I-16!!
Me podeis indicar la direccion y el telefono de Bellub√¬* por favor??

JuanT
07-31-2005, 05:31 PM
Thank you again, let's hope Oleg and co. do this little bit for the very many spanish and other counties enthusiasts. It's not much to ask, one or two regiments added.

Historical off-line campaings for the republican air force in the GCE, and for the Escuadrillas azules are in the works, with historically accurate, custom-made skins and missions.

TUCKIE.JG52
08-08-2005, 12:15 PM
Originally posted by CapStratos:
Chicos!! De que La Cenia estais hablando en vuestra pagina web?? De la Cenia del sur de CataluŮa?? Estoy a menos de 20km de all√¬* y me encantaria ir y hacer unas fotos del I-16!!
Me podeis indicar la direccion y el telefono de Bellub√¬* por favor??


S√¬*, ya te he respondido en el foro del Proyecto SCW.


1C Guys o Ubi ones: we still waiting for a response. Remember that we are not requesting that others do the work, we are offering to do the work by ourselves for Oleg.

Don't matter how many posts it will be necessary until we get a response. We'll keep on going... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

TUCKIE.JG52
11-01-2005, 08:33 AM
We don't forget this initiative, justr grabbing more, more and more info...

Meanwhile, you can access to new english contributions in:
http://scw.aviadoresvirtuales.org