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Haigotron
03-28-2006, 06:03 PM
"Did the Go inspire the B2?"

http://www.richard-seaman.com/Aircraft/AirShows/Edwards2005/B2/index.html

PBNA-Boosher
03-28-2006, 06:08 PM
Very much so. The designers spent tons of time with the Go-229 we have sitting in Smithsonian facilities looking at its design.

Cajun76
03-28-2006, 06:09 PM
Absolutly not.

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/fta/fta198.htm

Bo_Nidle
03-28-2006, 06:11 PM
The article has it correct. The B2 traces its lineage directly to the YB-35 and the YB-49. The flying wing was always a dream of Jack Northrop's.

The development of the Go-229 by the Hortons was a coincidental series of developments.

I would be surprised if any captured Go-229s were not examined by the allies.

But the fact remains that the B2 owes its ancestry to the work of Jack Northrop and his team.

vocatx
03-28-2006, 06:12 PM
Jack Northrup was building flying wings YEARS before the Gotha was built.

LStarosta
03-28-2006, 06:17 PM
Originally posted by PBNA-Boosher:
Very much so. The designers spent tons of time with the Go-229 we have sitting in Smithsonian facilities looking at its design.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/disagree.gif

Haigotron
03-28-2006, 08:32 PM
a much heated debate...only 1 thing will solve this....

QMB: set up 1 Go versus 1 smoke stack in the game...whoever kills the first will settle this century long debate....

darkhorizon11
03-28-2006, 11:36 PM
It depends upon what you mean by inspire? They were both flying wings so they have that running.

Northrop engineers did secretly visit the Smithsonian hanger to get ideas from the plane. But remember besides being a flying wing everything else about the aircraft is ancient history. I could see mayyyyybe the cantelever structure or basic systems placement and weight and balance giving some ideas. But beyond that were comparing an aircraft over 6 decades on with wooden parts, first generation jet engines and ejection seat, cable pulley system for the control surfaces and no computer input vs. a stealth bomber with fly by wire controls, complete computer integration in every system, etc.

Beyond the planform there is no comparison.

Capt.LoneRanger
03-29-2006, 01:08 AM
When I was in the US I watched a report about the B2 and one of the lead engineers stated they were inspired by the Ho229, but not only because of the shape:

Northrop had begun to design a wing-only bomber in 1930. In 1941 the USAAF demanded a larger bomber with increased range and the design was forced forward. But Northrop ran into ever new problems, especially after they made a design study in 1:3. The initial release date in 1943 had to be postponed and developement was nearly stopped until the end of the war.

Out of the ashes, suddenly the XB-35 evolved as being ready to fly in 1946, but quickly ran into new problems during the first 45min-flight. There were a few more tests done, then the project was finally abandoned as too dangerous.

But the Ho229 was revolutionary, not only in terms of the pure shape, but during it's testflight in March 1944, it was also found that the 229 was an extremely stable plane, with excellent flight characteristics and very good performance.

The other thing the engineer mentioned: The 229 was designed as a Stealth-Bomber. The shape itself gave only little reflection-area for radars, but especially the skin was almost SciFi for it's time. It was painted with a mixture of carbon and glue to absorb radar-emissions.

It was also stated, that though some other engineers still deny the B2 and stealth-skin was copied from these planes, designers admitted they had access to the plans of the Go229 for the XB-35 und YB-49.

Badsight.
03-29-2006, 01:31 AM
the low radar cross section of the Go-229 was pure accident

not intended , & found during radar tracking in its few test flights

while the Go-229 may have had nice handeling characteristics for a flying wing - nothing about the design wasnt already knowen about , or understood by Northrop before they got to inspect it

Capt.LoneRanger
03-29-2006, 01:41 AM
Well, it may not have been the main reason why the Ho229 was built that way, but it was a reason, why it was finished to add to this effect and the skin was definitely designed for this purpose http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

1930 Horten-brothers started with the design for new engines and several prototypes were built before the Nazis-Regime was even established. Many designs were exchanged before '33. It surely wasn't a secret weapon that time.

Badsight.
03-29-2006, 01:44 AM
lack-of-materials

Capt.LoneRanger
03-29-2006, 01:59 AM
Actually in 1940 the first submarines were equiped with stealth-coats. (Alberich).

RADAR was not an Allied secret.

The Germans also knew how vital RADAR had been during the BoB. I'm not saying they simply copied the skin, but it also wasn't pure lack of materials in 1941.

joeap
03-29-2006, 02:08 AM
Originally posted by Capt.LoneRanger:
Actually in 1940 the first submarines were equiped with stealth-coats. (Alberich).

RADAR was not an Allied secret.

The Germans also knew how vital RADAR had been during the BoB. I'm not saying they simply copied the skin, but it also wasn't pure lack of materials in 1941.

Alberich was an anti-sonar (or asdic as the brits called it) NOT anti-radar. Radar can't work underwater. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif True later on u-boats had special anti-radar coatings applied to the snorkels and periscopes but a different thing.

Capt.LoneRanger
03-29-2006, 02:46 AM
Correct, Alberich was INVENTED against active sonar, but was also tested against surface-radar.

Actually refering to these test is the source of the myst that Alberlich was invented as PassiveCM against Radar.

Sorry, my point was to show that tests against RADAR were conducted quite early in the war and I read these tests were done with Alberich, too - should have made that more clear. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Bremspropeller
03-29-2006, 03:01 AM
The B.-2 is a direct copy http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

SnapdLikeAMutha
03-29-2006, 03:10 AM
B2 is 100% undermodelled ingame

Capt.LoneRanger
03-29-2006, 03:17 AM
You mean CTRL-C and CTRL-V - F2 to rename and that's it? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Well, considering Wernher von Braun's story...

TX-Zen
03-29-2006, 08:37 AM
Funny thing about real world air and the physics of fluid dynamics...it hasn't changed much in the last few billion years.

One would think that since engineering is problem solving and the fact that air is the same for every nation, you would see similar results in design from time to time.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

Engineers in the 20's and 30's weren't nearly so inexperienced as we might think today...they understood aerodynamics very very well.

joeap
03-29-2006, 09:25 AM
Originally posted by Capt.LoneRanger:
Correct, Alberich was INVENTED against active sonar, but was also tested against surface-radar.

Actually refering to these test is the source of the myst that Alberlich was invented as PassiveCM against Radar.

Sorry, my point was to show that tests against RADAR were conducted quite early in the war and I read these tests were done with Alberich, too - should have made that more clear. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Ok clear for me then, and point taken. Didn't know that in fact. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif

Temporal_Mass
03-29-2006, 12:36 PM
I used to work for Northrup a while back (way before it became Northrup-Grumman). I worked out of the main R&D facility and also the plant where the forward center section of the B2 was produced. Jack Northrups dream had always been a flying wing aircraft so to say that the GO-229 inspired the design of the B2 is false. But where I worked it was not unusual at all to see reproductions of blueprints and copies of original German documents relating to the GO-229. So influenced? I would say yes.

darkhorizon11
03-29-2006, 08:31 PM
A little OT but speaking of reverting back to old technologies like flying wings. NASA and the Navy have been playing around with the FA-18 and swapted in a wing that bends just like on the Wright flyer. The idea is a it will be much smoother for aerodynamics and is called a Mission Adaptive Wing.

Xiolablu3
03-29-2006, 08:38 PM
Was the F22 inspired by the Wright Brothers plane?

darkhorizon11
03-30-2006, 12:15 AM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Was the F22 inspired by the Wright Brothers plane?

If your asking a serious question about this technology being implimented on the F-22... afaik its not. Its only in the prototype stages right now, the F-22 is operational.

AKA_TAGERT
03-30-2006, 12:17 AM
Originally posted by Haigotron:
"Did the Go inspire the B2?" Not one bit

AKA_TAGERT
03-30-2006, 12:18 AM
Originally posted by PBNA-Boosher:
Very much so. The designers spent tons of time with the Go-229 we have sitting in Smithsonian facilities looking at its design. urban legend

StG2_Schlachter
03-30-2006, 04:18 AM
Originally posted by Capt.LoneRanger:
Actually in 1940 the first submarines were equiped with stealth-coats. (Alberich).

RADAR was not an Allied secret.

The Germans also knew how vital RADAR had been during the BoB. I'm not saying they simply copied the skin, but it also wasn't pure lack of materials in 1941.

Eventually RADAR was invented by a German Scientist in 1904, before scientists from other nations took his work as a basis for further development. The basic principles of RADAR go back to the work of Heinrich Hertz in the late 19th century.

waffen-79
03-30-2006, 08:38 AM
TOTALLY TRUE m8, be sure!

mortoma
03-30-2006, 03:31 PM
The Hortens did not invent the flying wing nor did they have a monopoly on their development. Flying wings had been invented long before WWII and not by the Hortenss. Jack Northrup was aware that Flying wings were being experimented with in Germany during the war years but that's all he knew. The wings he developed were TOTALLY INDEPENDENT from work being done in Germany. Northrups own earlier flying wings inspired the B-2 far more than anything out of Germany. Did I make myself clear?? I think so.

Freaking anti-american propagandist would like to believe Americans are not capable of developing anything on their own. We just simply had/have to copy everything from someone else!! Too bad reality intrudes upon their fantasies.

ElAurens
03-30-2006, 04:54 PM
This has been discussed ad nauseum on these boards.

The B2 was not inspired by anything Germanic. It is the fullfillment of Jack Northrup's vision.

Werner Von Braun was however inspired by Robert Goddard. The father of modern rocketry.

Gibbage1
03-30-2006, 05:22 PM
Originally posted by PBNA-Boosher:
Very much so. The designers spent tons of time with the Go-229 we have sitting in Smithsonian facilities looking at its design.

Wrong. I spoke to one of the designers personally about that visit. I asked him what they found and he said "We learned nothing new, Northrop was working on flying wings since the 30's and already had everything figured out"

The B-2 being inspired by the Gotha is pure German fanboy crud. P.S. The flying wing in The Raiders of the Lost Ark is also a Northrop design.

The B-2 uses NO aspect of the Go-229 other then having the exhaust on top of the wings, and thats to mask its IR signiture. Thats not a Go-229 design aspect since they did not have IR in WWII.

B-2's wingspan is exactly the same as the B-35, and the controle system is also exactly the same as the B-35. The Go-229 used draggy airbrakes, B-35 and B-2 use split-aileron developed by Northrop.

Again, pure Luftwaffe fanboy fantisy. Read my sig. Some Luftwaffe fanboys deny the existence of the B-35 all togeather.

Gibbage1
03-30-2006, 05:25 PM
Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PBNA-Boosher:
Very much so. The designers spent tons of time with the Go-229 we have sitting in Smithsonian facilities looking at its design. urban legend </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hay Tag. Went you standing right beside me when I ask the Northrop designer about the Gotha? Remember how he laughed at the idea? Ya. This Go-229 = B2 should be on the TV show called Myth Busters. This one was busted big time.