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View Full Version : When did the VVS, RAF, etc. switch from the Vic to the Finger Four?



Nimits
12-19-2006, 03:56 PM
I have been looking into when the RAF, VVS, and other nations officially switched from the 3-plane section to the 2/4 plane Finger Four/Schwarm for DCG. My ETO air war library is somewhat thin at the moment, and the best info is that the RAF started to officially switch over in May, 1941, and the VVS sometime in 1943, but I am hoping some ETO experts can refine or correct that info. Also, what sort of formations would Poles (1939), German minor Allies (Romania, Bulgaria, etc.), and Italians have been using and/or when did they change to the four-ship formation?

Thanks.

Xiolablu3
12-19-2006, 04:16 PM
It was during the Battle OF Britain, mate.

SOme squadrons unofficially used it just after the Battle of France after watching the Germans, and it gradually got preference over the Vic through the Battle of Britain.

By the end of the BOB most Squadrons were using it.

It got changed to official doctrine later.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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ImpStarDuece
12-19-2006, 04:52 PM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
It was during the Battle OF Britain, mate.

SOme squadrons unofficially used it just after the Battle of France after watching the Germans, and it gradually got preference over the Vic through the Battle of Britain.

By the end of the BOB most Squadrons were using it.

It got changed to official doctrine later.

Off the top of my head the finger four wasn't adopted officially until late 1941. There were still pilots flying in three ship 'Vic' formations over Malta in mid-1942, and they suffered accordingly. The guide that Malta pilots put together mentions specifically that aircraft should fly in wing pairs not three plane Vics.

However, some Hurricane squadrons began operating in the 'Finger Four' during the early phases of the Battle of France, even before the May-1940 invasion.

Patrick Bishop's 'Fighter Boys' gives some details on how and when the finger four was adopted during the Battle of France and Battle of Britain.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

ImpStarDuece,

Flying Bullet Magnet... Catching Lead Since 2002<

SeaFireLIV
12-19-2006, 07:59 PM
I was somewhat surprised the other day when my 15 yr old daughter asked me what formation the British flew in BOB. I said the Vic and explained it. I was further surprised when she wanted to know what formation the Germans flew in. Even more so when she wanted to know why they were 2 different formations being used.

Of course, I explained and by the end of it her boredom threshold was reaching breaking point, but there you go.

Some of my flying in IL2 must be taking effect.http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Then again, I don`t want to turn her into a nerd at 15.. Do I?<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

"If it burns, it is confirmed."

Ivan Lukich Zvyagin

general_kalle
12-20-2006, 05:15 AM
omg 15 years old girls...the worst thing i know...and best looking http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

how does vic formation look??

ps. im not above 18.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

what have you got to lose?
You know, you come from nothing - you're going back to nothing.
What have you lost? Nothing!) -life of Brian

Xiolablu3
12-20-2006, 09:18 AM
Originally posted by ImpStarDuece:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
It was during the Battle OF Britain, mate.

SOme squadrons unofficially used it just after the Battle of France after watching the Germans, and it gradually got preference over the Vic through the Battle of Britain.

By the end of the BOB most Squadrons were using it.

It got changed to official doctrine later.

Off the top of my head the finger four wasn't adopted officially until late 1941. There were still pilots flying in three ship 'Vic' formations over Malta in mid-1942, and they suffered accordingly. The guide that Malta pilots put together mentions specifically that aircraft should fly in wing pairs not three plane Vics.

However, some Hurricane squadrons began operating in the 'Finger Four' during the early phases of the Battle of France, even before the May-1940 invasion.

Patrick Bishop's 'Fighter Boys' gives some details on how and when the finger four was adopted during the Battle of France and Battle of Britain. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think that is what I said wasnt it? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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"I despise what you say; I will defend to the death your right to say it."
-Voltaire