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View Full Version : Question about restroing German WWII Planes



BenvZijl
12-26-2004, 02:54 PM
okay, i've seen some WWII german planes being restored like a 109 a while ago but when they restored it the painted the current german flag on it's tail and not the well know swastika.

I know the swastika is a forbidden sign but these are WWII planes. To restore them you need the swastika otherwise it woudn't be the same woudnt it? i mean it looks so.........unhistorical(cause most of them are restored for historic reasons)

p1ngu666
12-26-2004, 02:57 PM
its illegal in germany i think.
tbh i wouldnt want it on anything of mine, much less something id spent ages making and would show off.
to me its no biggy

volkware.xyz
12-26-2004, 03:21 PM
Then don`t fly for the Reich...

(think about it...)

SkyPiggies
12-26-2004, 03:40 PM
Because, from the point of view of the FRG, it's the flag of a rival and illegitimate government

Similar issues also used to surround the flag of the GDR, until the two governments recognized each other in the early 1970s

LStarosta
12-26-2004, 03:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SkyPiggies:
Because, from the point of view of the FRG, it's the flag of a rival and illegitimate government

Similar issues also used to surround the flag of the GDR, until the two governments recognized each other in the early 1970s <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So there is still an illegitimate Nazi government in Germany? Interesting, I thought all that had been done away with...

BenvZijl
12-26-2004, 04:06 PM
yeah but think of it, if your making something histrocial, make it historcial acurate otherwise you just ****ing up with the aura around the plane

Hoatee
12-26-2004, 05:34 PM
Touchy issue...

Try this perspective : on a forum somewhere somebody showed a map of the North African theatre of Ops and the British side had many Commonwealth forces - among them South African forces.

It's customary to represent a military unit's nationality with the flag of the country which they serve. Now what flag should have been used to represent them? The old flag (orange, white, and blue)? Or the new one (and that looks rather similar to the Palestinian flag)?

PraetorHonoris
12-26-2004, 06:44 PM
It is a simply thing. Law does not allow to display the swastika. Point. It is really that simple.
The Wehrmacht-insignia, which are not forbitten, are displayed.

dannyworkman
12-26-2004, 06:54 PM
Kinda like the confederate battle flag,some hate groups using it so its almost outlawed.You wont see any pix of it at any nascar races anymore it is there but they aint taking any pix of it

Friendly_flyer
12-27-2004, 02:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dannyworkman:
Kinda like the confederate battle flag,some hate groups using it so its almost outlawed.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's not really comparable to the cross-bar flag. Like Praetor Honoris pointed out, the swastika is not nearly illegal, it's illegal. Luckily for you Americans, your civil war fought long ago, and you have a strong re-enactment movement that helps keeping the cross-bar flag in its historical context, despite hate-groups abusing it. Germany on the other hand, had her problems within living memory. The war is still a very touchy subject to many Germans. Maybe the swastika will be allowed again sometime in the future. Only time can tell.

In Norway, we had a similar debate on the sun-cross (cross in a circle) that was used by the pro-Nazi government during the occupation. In the end no ban was put forth, neither on the sun-cross nor on the swastika. Now, some Viking re-enactment uses the sun-cross (it has archaeological precedence), and some are thinking of using the swastika too, although in a small way, and in other variants (curved rather than angular arms, mirrored, other colours etc).

I personally hope the Germans one day can put the war and it's horrors behind them, and that the swastika again becomes just another historical symbol to be remembered, but no longer feared.

€¦ and yeah, the 109 doesn€t look quite right without it.

Hoatee
12-27-2004, 06:29 AM
Fact : swastika is illegal in Germany.

Whether it's right to ban it is a matter of politics and history.

And as for displaying it on restored military weapons or models in computer games - that's fifty-fifty issue too. To me it does look unhistorical (for models and stuff to miss the swastika) in the same way that American tanks painted in German war colours in some movies look ridiculous.

The point I think about moral perceptions about the whole issue is that in this time we have a precedent for the policies in practice that the symbol represents.

And that is just that....

fiesetrix
12-27-2004, 09:30 AM
The swastika is illegal in Germany, because it is the symbol of the NSDAP (National Socialist Party) which, as an political organization, is outlawed. Anybody showing swasticas in Germany gets into deep trouble.

TX-EcoDragon
12-27-2004, 02:17 PM
It isn't uncommon around here (USA) that restored aircraft display the swastika. I fly one of them occasionally in fact, a Bucker Jungman restored to near new condition. . . that said many people are sensitive to it and would rather that it wasn't parked in front of the airport cafe. You also don't get asked to do as many fly-ins for static display at airshows either.

GreyFox5
12-27-2004, 02:31 PM
For those of you who would like to see the Bucker Jungman in civilian colors...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v476/GreyFox5/Jungman500X333.jpg

volkware.xyz
12-27-2004, 03:25 PM
I was commenting in favour of using the swastika.

Japanese planes feature the rising sun, do they not? Is that not a symbol reprehensible to many? And yet it is there. Same with the old Soviet colours.

Its just a symbol. It does nothing - it has no real significance. If I fly a plane marked with the swastika, am I a Nazi? Thats like saying I`m a Nazi because I read Mein Kampf. Maybe I`m a Roman because I read a book on Roman history, or the chronicles of a Roman general. Uh-oh - I`ve played Rome: Total War. What about Mafia and all the organized crime simulators out there? The train of logic at play here is a slippery slope of stupidity and duplicity.

Reprehensible *philosophies* and *actions* make a Nazi, not the clothes or the finery on a building/vehicle.

Everybody knows in Germany the swastika is outlawed... thats not the point, stop making it. The point is whether or not its right.

Herr_Fuhrer
12-28-2004, 02:07 PM
http://www.swastika-info.com/en/article/germany/1093275257.html

Bremspropeller
12-28-2004, 04:41 PM
Well, people in Germany (and the surrounding countries) are pretty sesitive about this subject.
The problem is that the swastika will always be linked to the nazi-dictatorship and the terrible things which were done those days at places like Auschwitz.

Our government has even gone one step further:
they have repainted the title "Luftwaffe" (on our Airbus A310s) into "Bundesrepublik Deutschland" (Federa Republic of Germany) - just in order not to cause bad memories when travelling into countries like Poland or Russia...