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XyZspineZyX
11-15-2003, 11:56 AM
MOSSIE IS A MUST!

Yes I know the Mosquito is a post BoB a/c!
But so is the D-day map and 8th USAAF stationed at Britain.
But if your modeling a sim on "the Finest hour" of the Royal Air Force (The Defence of the Realm) their should be the retaliating Hour 'Leaning forward into France' As it was called by the RAF staf.

After BoB the RAF started to take the initiative in offensive strikes into Occupied France with the gallant(d! Lol) Battle vs JG 2 and JG 26.
A interesting period because now the Luftwaffe was at the defence and with the introduction of the BF109F (considerd the best model by most Ace's)the Spitfires had their hands full, but when the Focke Wulf came about the RAF was in real trouble untill the arival of the Spit Mk IX.

From this Ofensive period, certainly the most interesting a/c developed came about the DeHaviland Mosquito!
'The Wooden Wonder' as it was dubbed, is probaly the Best twin engine multi role a/c from WWII, Its german rival the JU88 served in eaqual roles throug the entire war and had some more roles like tankbusting and as the Mistel combo, but it did'nt have 'the Torn in the side of the enemy' effect that the Mossie certainly was for Das Reich!

The concept of a smal bomber that did not have defensive armament but used speed to outrun enemy a/c was quit revolutionary thinking in a time were the 4 engine haevy armed bombers ruled, (History has shown that these Heavy's still needed escort to not be slaugthered by Fighters)
The Mosquito did not need escort and only had two crew, it could take a 4000 pound bombload (same as the 10 crew B-17! Since the allies suffered huge crew loses over Europe the Mossie was a welcome substitute!) delivering it at pinpoint targets from high altitude or rooftop lowlevel strikes, the fighter bomber versions became a fighter-attack a/c as soon as they dropped their main load!

Some roles it played:
High speed bomber, High altitude , low altitude, Day and night.
Fighter-Bomber, Ground attack/support, Anti-shiping, pinpoint precision strikes.
Photo recconaisance, watching enemy movement, discovering enemy targets like rocket instalations camouflaged airbase or battle ships, low level bomb damage reports(film and photo)
fighter/Nightfighter, Defending Britain against Night and day bombing attacks, defending airbases at night against enemy Nightfigthers/intruders, intruder missions against enemy A/c trying to land at Luftwaffe airbases (With and without radar or ground controll)
Pathfinders, searching and marking the right spot for the allied Heavybomber armada to drop their payload, higly trained navigators would strike the target with 'TI' incedary flares or incedairy bombs, just before the main Heavyarmada showed up, the bombardiers would home in on these target indicators.

It served al these roles with distinction and lesser casultys then its coleague's.
Mosquito crew were higly trained pilots with a lot of initiativ and High decorations have been awarded to them.
German fighters seldom succeeded in to downing a mosquito when they did they could expect a lot of respect from Luftwaffe staf.

Memorable missions,
The roof top missions would be flown so fast and low that it often got the enemy with his pants down, AAA gunners were usualy to late to shoot these suprise attacks, Mossie's would return with chimeny pipe stones in their noses or wing tips cut of by telphone wire.
Ofcourse how can whe forget the mostdaring strikes at Gestapo HQ through out majorcitys in europe the Mossie crew took pride in only hitting those single buildings when surrounded by houses, and what about operation jericho where the bobms where dropped at the Amiens prison walls to enable imprisoned resistance members to escape their Gestapo torment! this action was repeated in Norway.
Daring strikes were exuted in Norway's many fjord's the 'Kriegs Marine' (German Navy) used these natural sea enclaves to hide their fleet and cargo shipping higly defended with AAA and steel cables across the fjord's the Germans could not stop the Mossie photographing and sinking this shipping, that would be hit by Coastal Command's Mosquito's armed with 4x mg's 4x 20mm the sixpounder 'Tse tse'anti-tankgun, rockets and the experimental 'bouncing ball bombs somewhat simular to those used against the Rhur dams 'Dambusters'.
The luftwaffe tried to duplicate the mossie threat by sending FW190 Jabo with small bombloads to hit targets in Britain (And hence sound the airraid alarm, stop production for a while, one of Mossie's many tasks)
But failed to produce a Mossie copy, The gifted Kurt Tank did design and built the TA154 'Moskito'but it failled to become operational.
Maybe Hitler so stubornly insisted on a fast bomber that he rejected the ME262 to become a fighter because he wanted to have a 'Mossie'impact bomber of his own!
(Later the fighter version would become a threat for the Mosquito at least one Moquito was shot down by a Me262)

This forgotten 'Wooden Wonder' (Admired and feared during the War) deserves at least to be modeled in the future sim or even better become like a standalone addon pack!

regards,
Kees

XyZspineZyX
11-15-2003, 11:56 AM
MOSSIE IS A MUST!

Yes I know the Mosquito is a post BoB a/c!
But so is the D-day map and 8th USAAF stationed at Britain.
But if your modeling a sim on "the Finest hour" of the Royal Air Force (The Defence of the Realm) their should be the retaliating Hour 'Leaning forward into France' As it was called by the RAF staf.

After BoB the RAF started to take the initiative in offensive strikes into Occupied France with the gallant(d! Lol) Battle vs JG 2 and JG 26.
A interesting period because now the Luftwaffe was at the defence and with the introduction of the BF109F (considerd the best model by most Ace's)the Spitfires had their hands full, but when the Focke Wulf came about the RAF was in real trouble untill the arival of the Spit Mk IX.

From this Ofensive period, certainly the most interesting a/c developed came about the DeHaviland Mosquito!
'The Wooden Wonder' as it was dubbed, is probaly the Best twin engine multi role a/c from WWII, Its german rival the JU88 served in eaqual roles throug the entire war and had some more roles like tankbusting and as the Mistel combo, but it did'nt have 'the Torn in the side of the enemy' effect that the Mossie certainly was for Das Reich!

The concept of a smal bomber that did not have defensive armament but used speed to outrun enemy a/c was quit revolutionary thinking in a time were the 4 engine haevy armed bombers ruled, (History has shown that these Heavy's still needed escort to not be slaugthered by Fighters)
The Mosquito did not need escort and only had two crew, it could take a 4000 pound bombload (same as the 10 crew B-17! Since the allies suffered huge crew loses over Europe the Mossie was a welcome substitute!) delivering it at pinpoint targets from high altitude or rooftop lowlevel strikes, the fighter bomber versions became a fighter-attack a/c as soon as they dropped their main load!

Some roles it played:
High speed bomber, High altitude , low altitude, Day and night.
Fighter-Bomber, Ground attack/support, Anti-shiping, pinpoint precision strikes.
Photo recconaisance, watching enemy movement, discovering enemy targets like rocket instalations camouflaged airbase or battle ships, low level bomb damage reports(film and photo)
fighter/Nightfighter, Defending Britain against Night and day bombing attacks, defending airbases at night against enemy Nightfigthers/intruders, intruder missions against enemy A/c trying to land at Luftwaffe airbases (With and without radar or ground controll)
Pathfinders, searching and marking the right spot for the allied Heavybomber armada to drop their payload, higly trained navigators would strike the target with 'TI' incedary flares or incedairy bombs, just before the main Heavyarmada showed up, the bombardiers would home in on these target indicators.

It served al these roles with distinction and lesser casultys then its coleague's.
Mosquito crew were higly trained pilots with a lot of initiativ and High decorations have been awarded to them.
German fighters seldom succeeded in to downing a mosquito when they did they could expect a lot of respect from Luftwaffe staf.

Memorable missions,
The roof top missions would be flown so fast and low that it often got the enemy with his pants down, AAA gunners were usualy to late to shoot these suprise attacks, Mossie's would return with chimeny pipe stones in their noses or wing tips cut of by telphone wire.
Ofcourse how can whe forget the mostdaring strikes at Gestapo HQ through out majorcitys in europe the Mossie crew took pride in only hitting those single buildings when surrounded by houses, and what about operation jericho where the bobms where dropped at the Amiens prison walls to enable imprisoned resistance members to escape their Gestapo torment! this action was repeated in Norway.
Daring strikes were exuted in Norway's many fjord's the 'Kriegs Marine' (German Navy) used these natural sea enclaves to hide their fleet and cargo shipping higly defended with AAA and steel cables across the fjord's the Germans could not stop the Mossie photographing and sinking this shipping, that would be hit by Coastal Command's Mosquito's armed with 4x mg's 4x 20mm the sixpounder 'Tse tse'anti-tankgun, rockets and the experimental 'bouncing ball bombs somewhat simular to those used against the Rhur dams 'Dambusters'.
The luftwaffe tried to duplicate the mossie threat by sending FW190 Jabo with small bombloads to hit targets in Britain (And hence sound the airraid alarm, stop production for a while, one of Mossie's many tasks)
But failed to produce a Mossie copy, The gifted Kurt Tank did design and built the TA154 'Moskito'but it failled to become operational.
Maybe Hitler so stubornly insisted on a fast bomber that he rejected the ME262 to become a fighter because he wanted to have a 'Mossie'impact bomber of his own!
(Later the fighter version would become a threat for the Mosquito at least one Moquito was shot down by a Me262)

This forgotten 'Wooden Wonder' (Admired and feared during the War) deserves at least to be modeled in the future sim or even better become like a standalone addon pack!

regards,
Kees

XyZspineZyX
11-15-2003, 12:09 PM
Bump! This would be great.

With a flyable Mossie and a flyable He~162 jet, the jokes about wood airplanes will be silenced forever.

Must give credit where credit is due. IL~2/FB is the first flight sim where most of the jokes are about wood airplanes.

XyZspineZyX
11-15-2003, 03:49 PM
One thing you missed out out an already good post was that with a full load the mozzie could still outrun axis fighters http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


we need the mozzie!!!!

mozzie mozzie mozzie mozzie mozzie mozzie http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-15-2003, 04:15 PM
Arm_slinger wrote:

- One thing you missed out out an already good post
- was that with a full load the mozzie could still
- outrun axis fighters /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


Are you sure about that? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Have you ever heard of a FW190 pilot by the name of Addi Glunz?


Anyway, I think the Mosquito was the best overall aircraft produced by GB during WWII, and arguably the most important to the RAF from a strategic standpoint.


Frankly, the Mosquito was one of the very best aircraft to be concieved, built, and flown during all of WWII.

I have no idea as to it's development status, but I would be very suprised if someone isn't working very hard on the Mossie right now. I would love to see this thing added.


<center><img src= "http://perso.wanadoo.fr/christophe.arribat/stoffwjabo.jpg" height=205 width=385>

<center>"We are now in a position of inferiority...There is no doubt in my mind, nor in the minds of my fighter pilots, that the FW190 is the best all-round fighter in the world today."

British Air Marshall, Sholto Douglas, 17 July 1942

XyZspineZyX
11-15-2003, 06:23 PM
Yeah since the Focke wulf was the only serious adversary for a long time!

There has been a other FW190 pilot who shot down a Mosquito he was a night Nightfighter, Paul Zorner downed a Mosquito while fliyng a ME110-G4 with NJ G5 and Heinz Roeker stalked up a landing Mosquito on landing course and shot it down in his JU88 G-6 with NJ G2, but admitted tobe glad to have encountered the Mossie only once! usualy their only chance of intercepting was when positioned high above the Mossie so they could dive and gain speed, very simular to the latter allied fighter tactic against ME262 jets!

The Navigator/Bombardier who was sitting somewhat further back in the cockpit was always scanning the sky for "Snappers" or Bandits, while the pilot would usualy fly a zig zag course from time to time, to have better overvieuw and make a suprise intercept (From the deadcorners)more difficult.

Bye the way I did forget to mention that the Mossie have shot down a impresive 600, V1 fliyngbombs!
Regards,
Kees.

XyZspineZyX
11-16-2003, 03:45 AM
I agree, the mosquito would be a great addition to FB, BOB, or any of Oleg's sims. I sure could go for a Tse-Tse fly(Mossie with a 57mm cannon) http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-16-2003, 02:38 PM
How about the D.H.Hornet 472mph 4x20mm cannons in the nose + rockets and bombs built for pacific war


http://server2.uploadit.org/files/291003-01anoseart_us_08.jpg

XyZspineZyX
11-16-2003, 04:03 PM
yeah mossie man is needed /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
and yeah, the newest mossies could outrun the german fighters
i read about one that did a long photo recon mission, starting in england and ending up in malta or something
ran outa fuel while taxing back
besides, 2 merlins, thats gotta sound good /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif


whineingu /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-16-2003, 06:06 PM
About the sound of those Merlins!

I did buy a DVD from Pegasus 'The WAR file';

" De Haviland MOSQUITO
The Best British Multi-role combat aircraft of the second World War"
For just 7,99 Euro this Documantary is a must for Mosquito fans, with a lot of B&W WWII footage and in colour a fliyng Mossie is shown from inside the Cockpit it gives a good record of how the engine sound both from the inside or externaly!

I hope that the BoB sim wil use digitalised recordings ofhe real engines! while their still around this should be documented there is just one Fliyng Mossie left, and many other WWII Warbirds are becoming extinct!

Each pilot who flew a Merlin engined a/c will tell you they loved the sound of it, on this part FB can still become much better I think!
A third party develloper who modeld a supurb P-38 for CFS2 that looked very convincing (Other then the standard P-38 in CFS2)but its sound boosted the expierience of fliyng this virtual bird to a higher level! The Modeller did record the sound of a original P-38 and in various rpms.
This could be a very fun job getting to know the real birds better for Maddox or third party volunteers and with the Fame and admeration of the IL2 sim I think many war bird owners would like to contribute their engine sound!
Regards,
Kees.

XyZspineZyX
11-16-2003, 06:13 PM
yeah, that sound makes the hairs on the back of your neck stand up /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
its of upmost importance to have that sound for spitfire /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
had some footage and stuff for spitfire on a program about worbiton (spelling)
he did recon, very very brave man /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif once he was being chased back to malta by 2 109's, and he disapeared from radar /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif
everyone thought they got him, 5mins later a spitfire roared over malta /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
he had flown so low as to disapear off radar /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif


whineingu /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-19-2003, 04:09 PM
OH and there is more,

The Mossie also did a spectacular raid where they skipbombed Railway tunnels! in Europe. Ofcourse highly dangerous to fly very low btween mountains following the railtrack untill releasing the bombs that will bounce hopefully into the tunnel and you hope to be able to climb over the mountain the tunnel was located in!

The Mossie also performed 'Spoof' and 'Window' missions when fliyng for Bombercommand were they would impose to be the slower Heavy bomber force (Spoof)luring away enemy fighters from the real Heavy Bomber fleet to disturb the enemy radar the Mossie could drop silverfoil on blackpaper strips that would interfere with the radars wafelength (Window)

At D-day a Mossie force marked and Bombed a dangerous haevy-gunbattery in order to make the landings on Omeha beach less riskfull, they did this with such preccicion that the first Americans para's who aproached it notified it was bombed away and abbandoned. with that one raid they had more succes then the combined effect Bombercommand andthe Eightairforce thogeter achieved in a month!

For their Patfinder missions the Mossie used the very precise Oboe system where they would be using a couple of radar's based in Britain to guide them towards their target and tell the navigator with adio blibs when exactly to drop his Target Indicator or 4000 pound "Cookie" when when the target was overcasted (Very usual in western Europe)they used the 'TI' a coloured flare that would float above the clouds and often dropped in a square shape with the TI's marking the corners,
so the main bomber force would drop within this square on top of a invissible target!

The Mossie looked for targets, photgraphed them, marked them and bombed them while misguiding the enemy Fighter Command!

The Mosquito Fighter-bomber will be a thrill to fly with 4x mg (4000 rounds)4x 20mm (1000 rounds!) up to 2000 pound of bombs and then still able to achieve 325mph!

regards,
Kees.