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Flight_boy1990
08-29-2007, 10:39 AM
Ok i hope you're not gettin' bored of my writings http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.
A time ago i readed the memories of Me-109 pilots in the russian front,and i was interested when i found that a lot of the pilots which're speaking for their battles with the Lavochkin-5,7 (mostly for La-5 series),they said that the 109s had better turn performance and can over-turn the La's,i forgot the name of the book,and i can't find it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif,so i can't tell you some of the names of the german pilots,who won a battle with maneuver fight vs. Lavochkin.

Can you tell me is that true?
And if its true why its not the same in IL-2?(Las turn almost like an Yak).

Waldo.Pepper
08-29-2007, 12:33 PM
In real life (as opposed to a GAME) the performance of the plane in less important than the ability / nerve / guts of the pilot.

DKoor
08-29-2007, 02:55 PM
Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
In real life (as opposed to a GAME) the performance of the plane in less important than the ability / nerve / guts of the pilot. +1

DKoor
08-29-2007, 02:57 PM
Originally posted by Flight_boy1990:
Ok i hope you're not gettin' bored of my writings http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.
A time ago i readed the memories of Me-109 pilots in the russian front,and i was interested when i found that a lot of the pilots which're speaking for their battles with the Lavochkin-5,7 (mostly for La-5 series),they said that the 109s had better turn performance and can over-turn the La's,i forgot the name of the book,and i can't find it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif,so i can't tell you some of the names of the german pilots,who won a battle with maneuver fight vs. Lavochkin.

Can you tell me is that true?
And if its true why its not the same in IL-2?(Las turn almost like an Yak). You are right....in fact I think that I read something like that in "Hungarian aces of ww2" by Osprey in which there was a word that only LA-7 was really great plane but only on fav alts....and they usually flew on them since many of their missions consisted of escorting IL-2s.

In the terms of in game turn ability I rate Lavochkin higher than Yak because LA always seemed a bit more "controllable" plane than Yak...LA being more "stable".
That goes practically for any LA and Yak version even Yak-3 although Yak-3 really has great maneuverability.

3.JG51_BigBear
08-29-2007, 03:21 PM
There are also numerous instances of Soviet pilots attributing superior turning performance to 109s but, as has been mentioned, in combat it really came down to pilot training and skill. The performance figures for many mono plane point defense fighters of WW2 were remarkebly similar and it came down to who could get the most out of their fighter and the overall condition of the plane they were fighting with. Pilot accounts are a lot of fun to read and are great for getting an impression of the conditions under which pilot's fought but they are definitely not the best source for information on fighter performance.

VW-IceFire
08-29-2007, 03:30 PM
If the real pilots were as worried as some Russian pilots about the build quality of the individual aircraft then they would likely not be as interested in putting them in high G turns as the 109 pilot who, until late in the war, would generally be assured that his plane was will built.

M_Gunz
08-29-2007, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by Flight_boy1990:
who won a battle with maneuver fight vs. Lavochkin.

Maneuver fight is not best done in flat turn.

Unless you have details of the fight, who was perhaps escorting or not, who started with advantage
of speed, height or both, who saw who first then you are missing pieces much bigger than compare
turning of both at same speed and altitude.

Stories from books, if they gave full details of all the fights, what is the book would fill a
shelf as series volumes. Play the sims without a head full of assumption-supported ideas and
then later read the stories and think how many ways that could have happened.

The SIMS should help with understanding the story, not the other way around.

Flight_boy1990
08-30-2007, 10:04 AM
Well i didn't get an true answer is the 109s from '42-'43 were with better turn performence in the real life than the La series(mostly the La-5 series)...I'm not using the meneuver fight much,so its not a big problem if i can't overturn an La in the game.I know that it depend from the pilot,and i know too,that a lot of the russian pilot were young boys with only 20-30 hours in the air,and were the usual breakfast for german aces with fly from the Spanish civil war,and now when watching the german guncams i even saw an I-153 gettin' kicks from an Me-109 E-4,and it just stays without doing anything and getting a lot of 20mm hits,the same was with some La-5 attacked by Fw-190 and some of them tryed to overturn it,but without succes,and you know what happened to them latter http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif .(cause every pilot gets into panic when someone shoot at him.)

SO i wonna know was the 109 better than the La into the turns.I don't want some answers like "It depends from the pilot".

So lets just say that we have an 109 vs La and the planes are piloted by aces,so they know what to do.So which one will win if it depend from the maneuverbility of the planes.

p.s:I want to compare mostly the ME-109 G-2,G-6(early and late versions) with La-5,La-5 F,La-5 FN(not the La-7 versions).

M_Gunz
08-30-2007, 10:51 AM
You've got a funny view of history. Lean a bit more and you'll fall over.

Flight_boy1990
08-30-2007, 01:29 PM
Ok.I suggest noone wonna say it:
The Me-109s had a better turn performance than the La-5,and its right the opposite in the game.
I know for the so called "Mr.Olegs war".Its a law in IL-2 that the Red planes will overturn the Blue ones(I MEAN THE GERMAN AND ITALLIAN planes).Everyone knows that the jap planes had very good turn performence,so the ingame jap planes have good turn performence,BUT they're cutted into the speed!The blue planes have the speed(The german planes only.The italian planes even don't have the speed and the turn performence),but they're cutted into the turn performence.I know that the Yakovlev and Polikarpov I-153,I-16 planes were very good into the turns,but i don't think so for the rest of the red planes like the Spits,etc...
So this is my point of vieux into the all IL-2 game.
Just wonna see what is your point of you guys.Why we don't have a good,realistic WWII flying simulator?

M_Gunz
08-30-2007, 03:01 PM
Where's the test flight data?

Flight_boy1990
08-31-2007, 09:35 AM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
Where's the test flight data?

WHat's your problem?Tell me where to find it,and i'll give it to you.I've played many time since the test,so probably its not existing now.
Or just play vs. human piloted Polikarpov I-185
M-71,and you'll see what i really mean!(Play with Me-109 G-2,6 or FW-190 A-4,5(the early version) vs the I-185 M-71

JG51_Rudel
08-31-2007, 10:26 AM
The poor quality of most Russian aircraft meant that they were not living up to pilot expectations and what was generally put down on paper.

lowfighter
08-31-2007, 11:49 AM
I don't know but my feeling is that 109G2 is the OVERALL best fighter for 1942 year in the game.

Flight_boy1990
08-31-2007, 11:53 AM
Nope,its the I-185 M-71.Check it and you'll see.Not many of you flyed almost every night against it.

lowfighter
08-31-2007, 12:06 PM
Originally posted by Flight_boy1990:
Nope,its the I-185 M-71.Check it and you'll see.Not many of you flyed almost every night against it.

Right, but I was thinking about planes which really took a part in the war. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

DKoor
08-31-2007, 12:52 PM
I just popped by to say that I feel that some members here are a bit rude towards other members. You guys know who you are........I know I've been guilty of that too, but I'll try not to do it in the future as it's not really nice.

About the best in 1942......I don't like it as much as 109, but it's likely to be FW-190 and not any version of the 109. IMHO. But.... whatever.

Wildnoob
08-31-2007, 02:45 PM
the Hungaraian built BF-109's have the standard quality of Messerchimitt(witch later German models din't have).

I don't know exactly when German figther production started to loose quality, but I know when that happen Hungary production planes don't loose any quality and obviolsy have better performance than the German production planes.

* this info can be checked in the sim in the BF-109 section(just don't know the version).

DKoor
08-31-2007, 04:51 PM
Too bad we don't have 20mm in the nose for those later Hungarian Gustavs http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

Flight_boy1990
09-01-2007, 09:39 AM
Originaly posted by Wildnoob
..this info can be checked in the sim in the BF-109 section(just don't know the version).

The Hungarian build Me-109s were the G-14.If they realy had the 20 mm nose cannon in the IL-2... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif