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buckrodgers1967
11-24-2004, 11:06 AM
I understand that some gamers want the whole experience of flying WWII aircraft, but I find trimming the aircraft a complete pain can we not have an auto trim button?

cueceleches
11-24-2004, 11:12 AM
Well, since it´s an all important part of flying...I don´t think so. Get used to it, it may be rather useful in combat, especially if your ailerons or rudder or both are damaged. Trimming will give you some control over the airplane, even if it´s just a little and slow. But it may save you.

gates123
11-24-2004, 11:19 AM
keep elevator trim close to your heart...be sure.

Tallyho1961
11-24-2004, 11:38 AM
Hi,

I had real trouble using trim until I got a HOTAS (Saitek X45 in my case) and mapped the elevator and rudder trim to the two rotary knobs on the throttle, keeping the aileron trim on the arrow keys: left arrow = left wing heavy, right arrow = right wing heavy, down arrow = neutral.

I had no idea that I could do this until I got the HOTAS and starting setting up my profile - When I figured it out I had one of those Eureka moments.

Mapping trim to the rotaries is one of those unexpected discoveries that made a HUGE difference to my ability to fly correctly and comfortably. Trimming has now become second nature and I'm able to fly at precise altitudes, using the RPM that I want, at the airspeed that I need. It even makes takeoffs more comfortable because I can null out yaw resulting from engine torque, etc. I give the rudder trim a couple of degrees in the direction opposite to the prop rotation and Bob's yer uncle.

Th eupshot here is that if you don't have a HOTAS - I would hearyily recommend you get one - You won't regret it.

S!

alky_6
11-24-2004, 02:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tallyho1961:
The upshot here is that if you don't have a HOTAS - I would hearyily recommend you get one - You won't regret it.

S! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
What is HOTAS? Probably a dweeb question but the only thing that comes to mind is a hot babe.

milelongshlong
11-24-2004, 02:23 PM
Hands On Throttle and Stick

Do a search for the Saitek X45 and you'll see what it means.

Tallyho1961
11-24-2004, 02:32 PM
Not a dweeb question at all and I prefer your definition, by the way.

A HOTAS is a "Hands On Throttle And Stick", which is the term used to describe a two-part flight controller where one part is the joystick, the other part is the throttle - like an actual aircraft. Examples are the Saitek X45, the Cougar by Thrustmaster and another is made by CH Products.

HotI are more expensive than a simple joystick, but offer much more programmability and a more realistic sim flying experience. I use the X45 and have been able to program virtually all my flight controls to the HOTAs, which makes a HUGE difference.

If you're new to flight sims, but are enjoying yourself enough to invest a bit, a HOTAS is a very good move. It takes some effort to set up - but pays back big time.

S!

Fliger747
11-24-2004, 02:50 PM
Given the springing of most joysticks, trim in a sim is even more important than in real aircraft for precise control, such as in approach and landing to the carrier.

If one 'sits' in the cockpit and activates the trim, you see the ailerons move in notches, a good way to have trim in a digital environment. The elevator wheel just 'runs' as you trim. The problem most have had with this is the delayed response time and lack of feel makes it hard to initially find the 'sweet spot'. Try a LITTLE, wait, tweak till you find the optimal point. The delay makes this a bit frustrating if you need a significant trim change.

None of the trim systems, in the way they are represented here are very true to life, but it would be enough were they a snitch more useable. They do work and are essential, but take some practice.

This subject was trampled to death earlier, some of the reasons it is the way it is apparently has to do with online play and 'cheats', which was said to be a problem in CFS2.

Perhaps an elevator trim, requiring multiple pushes of a button to move, like the Wildcat landing gear, would alow sufficent precision and take care of posible unrealistic trim rates without a mushy delay built in.

It is what it is and is flyable with practice.

killer2359
11-26-2004, 10:28 PM
I agree that an auto trim option would be very useful - two options would be ideal - one that constantly operates (effectively cancelling the dynamic trim changes of the FM) - or alternatively one that just sets the trims to ballanced flight as it exists at the time of pressing the AutoTrim button.

Fliger747
11-27-2004, 12:28 AM
Some Logitec issues are discussed in another thread. I am/was (haven'a fixed it yet) having a calibration no right aileron control issue.

Perhaps thru the profiler the other (trim) issue can be resolved. At present the sim flies a lot better at home with the X45.

TPN_Cephas
11-27-2004, 12:43 AM
When you fly a real plane you can trim in a couple seconds, in IL2 you are constantly adjusting trim and it rarely wants to center.

There ought to be an auto center button to eliminate the tediuos hunt and peck for a neutral trim that never happens. If you change throttle, bombload etc, the trim should change yes and you would have to re auto-center. Or if you did want to trim to climb, auto center then bump it up a few notches to climb or descend.

That's my opinion at least.

killer2359
11-27-2004, 01:02 AM
I'm 200% behind buckrodgers1967 and TPN_Cephas on this - and why the heck is there so much opposition to having a choice????

I've already addressed elsewhere the "it's realistic so put up with it" (BS) attitude - ie. there are enough inaccuracies throughout the game (not a criticism - it's a sim so has obvious limitations/compromises) to establish a precedent for something like an autotrim. ie. The real fighters didn't have thumb rotaries on the throttle!!

The frustration is that I don't understand why people are so against FREE CHOICE - for crying out loud, you don't have to use an autotrim if you don't want to but why put down the idea? - this directly affects me because if everyone read these sorts of threads and said: "hmm, yeah why not? - this would help out some people." then it would fall in the category of widely approved idea and maybe it'd get implemented - but as long as any such question is marginalised then there's no chance it'll get thru to the dev team.

Fliger747 - thanks, I'm finally getting somewhere too by having managing to find a reasonably workable pitch control map and flying from max zoomed out FOV in the game.

killer2359
11-27-2004, 01:45 AM
I've just installed the 3.02 patch and had a bit of fly - and my whole control "issue" is VASTLY IMPROVED!!! The FM seems much better - specifically the dynamic trim of the aircraft doesn't seem anywhere near as volatile as it used to be - so along with a finally workable pitch map for my Logitech stick PF is really starting to feel "right" to me!

You guys having trouble with the trim - get this patch in asap and see how it feels to you - problem might be solved!.

LEXX_Luthor
11-27-2004, 02:00 AM
If you don't have fancy joystick, map elevator trim to mousewheel. Much better than keyboard clicking.