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Layniel
08-24-2005, 06:10 PM
im starting to get affectionate to those things

in Uru they were kind of "uh-oh... what have i done? **** yeesha"

in Myst V it started more like "they are Crazy Yeeshas pets"

but now, after seeing them happy, singing, afraid, angry... i feel they are much more alive and worth saving, then before

did you see their blue eyes? from far away Bahros can look pretty ugly but from near they are actually well done (even if they look like giant humanoid ants)

Boyue65
08-24-2005, 10:41 PM
Eh. I don't like being used by Yeesh any more than anyone else did, but at the same time the Bahro are simply another sentient race, with characteristics and (presumably) emotional content similar to humanity.

Not to say I trust Yeesh, but I can grant that the Bahro aren't bloodthirsty killers.

ZeusmeisterX007
08-25-2005, 08:38 PM
Quote: "Not to say I trust Yeesh, but I can grant that the Bahro aren't bloodthirsty killers."

How can you say that? They would act all nice and friendly until you freed them. They could then turn on you (and everyone else) after that.

JustBrett
08-26-2005, 06:28 AM
The question is, what exactly are we supposed to free them FROM? The D'ni are gone. I don't see any chains on the Bahro in EoA. They can link away from a pursuer any time they want. What is supposed to be holding them "captive"?

Mr Zebe D
08-26-2005, 09:48 AM
Since there is possibly a long time interval between URU and the Noloben snapshot, they could be free already.

ZeusmeisterX007
08-26-2005, 10:27 AM
Aren't they somehow held by the power of the slates?

JustBrett
08-26-2005, 11:08 AM
Originally posted by ZeusmeisterX007:
Aren't they somehow held by the power of the slates?
That sounds like a good suggestion to me. Maybe anyone who gets his hands on a slate can give them orders that must be obeyed, so they won't truly be free until the slates are destroyed or placed out of human reach or something. I just hope the game gives us either solid confirmation of this or some other plausible explanation, rather than leaving the answer up in the air.

Now I'm wondering, though, who made the slates. The edges are inscribed with Bahro symbols, as are the pedestals, suggesting that the Bahro made them themselves. They don't really look like a D'ni artifact, and Esher calls them "perverted". But, why would the Bahro invent something that others could use to enslave them?

ZeusmeisterX007
08-26-2005, 01:01 PM
Quote from a preview that you posted the link to Bret: "Those who played Uru will remember Yeesha, the daughter of Atrus. She taught us about the Bahro, the servants who were not quite human, but who served the D'ni silently from the shadows. They were hidden then, but we see them now. They are like giant spider monkeys the size of humans. And they still serve and keep the Ages running even though the D'ni have long since left. Will they ever be freed to pursue their own destiny?

There is a Tablet of great power. It will take craft and cunning to release it, but once released it will have the power to free peoples and change destinies. If only you use it wisely.

Yeesha calls you. She had the tablet once, but made the wrong choice. Now the tablet refuses to be touched by her, passing through her hands as if a ghost. She is bitter about her failure, but desperate for someone to succeed. She seems to almost worship the Bahro. Is she a visionary who can free a people? Or just a tree hugging wacko who values animals more than people? Will she show you the truth? Or use you to recapture the power of the Tablet? Either way, she sends you on the quest.

Then you meet Esher, a true D'ni. Yeesha sent him on the quest, but he also failed. He is also disappointed and a bit cynical. But he despises the Bahro. He warns us that €œthey are not as we are. Remember that.€ Does he see a true threat from the Bahro? Or is he a bigoted racist? He claims to want to help us. But why?

And then there are the Bahro themselves. Are they truly sentient? Or are they just trained monkeys? And what would they do if they were released from their duties? Would they be grateful? Or would they turn on their former masters?"

Hope that clears some things up.

Layniel
08-26-2005, 01:58 PM
mmmh i kinda thought the bahro made the tablets themselves as a try to communivate with the d'ni though the D'ni saw them and thought.. "wouldn't they make great slaves?"

when i read that preview several things come to my mind and help me already to decision.
Yeesha already used us once (though that "us" was some other guy in the future, so the stranger wouldn't know", she can use us again

Esher wanted to help, but then he stopped, he must have discovered something.

after seeing the bahro, they are certainly sentient (actually trained monkeys, as they do exactly what Cyan wants them to do)

anyway Yeesha seems to be Crazy so, Esher is definetely the right choice

JustBrett
08-26-2005, 08:17 PM
Originally posted by ZeusmeisterX007:
Hope that clears some things up.
Oh, I'm quite familiar with that preview, having read it several times. I'm also aware that a previewer's interpretation of events is not guaranteed to be free of misinterpretations. (For example, we have two other previews by Gamespot and PC Gamer magazine. One says Atrus is alive and the other says Atrus is dead. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif) So I take those comments with a grain of salt.

ZeusmeisterX007
08-26-2005, 08:55 PM
Yeah, but I think that that preview is probably right. It is certainly a possibility.

Boyue65
08-26-2005, 09:40 PM
Brett is right here, though -- we come back to the same logical contradiction. The bahro, as a clearly intelligent species, would not have created the Slates were they aware that the Slates' ultimate use would be their own inprisonment. It is possible that they were coerced or otherwise deceived into creating the Slates -- for all we know, they could have originally worshipped the D'ni -- but none of that is anywhere close to confirmed. So there's a hole in that idea.

It does bear considering that the chambers that held the Bahro pillars were apparently created by Yeesha. They had her handprint on them and everything, including her intuitive style of creation. Yet they held within them (from what we've been told) the essence of a Bahro. Perhaps the question we should be asking is, Why would Yeesha create the pillars?

And previews are often seeded with misinformation. In a way, that serves to drive up the hype to a degree.

ZeusmeisterX007
08-26-2005, 09:57 PM
They had her handprint on them and everything, including her intuitive style of creation. Yet they held within them (from what we've been told) the essence of a Bahro.

Maybe her handprint came from this. Maybe all of her stuff is a copy.

Layniel
08-27-2005, 05:25 AM
maybe the d'ni (or those from their original home planet garternay) learned from the bahro, the bahroglyphs, and then made the slates, to enslave the bahros which were anyways to dangerous for them (they can change entire ages and link at will... that can be dangerous)

slates enslave them because they are dangerous
yeesha wants to free them because they are sentient
yeesha frees them
the universe is doomed to be changed at every bahros whim


imagine if ALL bahros are free... (how many are there?)
now imagine two bahros want to change an age in different ways (one wants rain, the other one wants sun)
now imagine the battles between their wills

i dunno, but i think now im certainly going to help Esher

JustBrett
08-27-2005, 06:58 AM
Originally posted by CyberCrrash75:
i dunno, but i think now im certainly going to help Esher
I don't know if I'd go that far, but I'm sure going to listen to him carefully! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Something in Boyue65's last post triggered another thought. If Yeesha and Esher could go on a quest for the master tablet of power, what is stopping the Bahro from going after it and freeing themselves, if that is indeed what is holding them in bondage? It looks like the Bahro have access to all of the Ages that we do, though I suppose the master tablet could be rigged so that no Bahro can touch it.

Any way you look at it, Myst V has lots of 'splaining to do!

uecasm
08-27-2005, 05:07 PM
Someone posted a review snippet on another thread which said that while anyone could touch the tablet at first, if they made the wrong choices they wouldn't be able to touch it any more (Yeesha tried first, then convinced Escher to try after she failed. He failed too. So now neither can touch the tablet.)

So my guess is that the Bahro created the tablet because they needed a human's help for something. But they're not silly enough to let people who obviously aren't going to help them continue to mess with it. I don't think the tablet actually forces them to do anything, it's just a way of conveying your requests to them. It seems clear that they don't especially trust humans (they run away if you get too close), but for some reason they need our help.

Layniel
08-28-2005, 04:10 AM
uuh good theory, but didnt yeesha want to free them... that is kinda helping.... oh no i got it....
Bahro-hunting season!!!! STOP YEESHA!!!

well maybe yeesha is actually using us again telling us "oooh dont you want to free those "cute" things?" but actually she has a dark plan

salgene
08-28-2005, 05:10 PM
personally I won't be helping eshar. mainly because he's very conseated and has a major hatred for the bahro. He just sounds like a fanatic to me. specially when it comes to the bahro and yeesha.


Also have we accually figured out when exactly Myst 5 is happening? don't remember reading anything that stated when this was going on. its obvious that it's way after MYST 4. Also I seem to remember yeesha saying something about she kinda messed up and got caught up in the pride thing that the D'ni did in URU. Maybe this is her last atempt to fix her mistakes.

Layniel
08-29-2005, 02:39 AM
or we are right now in that time where she was all prideful... maybe its now that she messes up
do you think she was refering to the tablets (not being able to touch them), when she said she had done mistakes?


so it seems Cyan did what they wanted
people are confused over bahros (what will they do after being freed)
some think Yeesh is a lunatic, and one should do what esher says
some think that Esher is a fanatic, and one should do what yeesha says

it will be interesting to see what is the truth
when the game is released i wont return here until i finished the game.. just to not be influenced

yaycc
08-29-2005, 09:55 AM
Oooohh, Bahro!

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/1505/bahroeyetoeye2oi.th.jpg (http://img219.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bahroeyetoeye2oi.jpg)

Boyue65
08-29-2005, 11:47 AM
It's been confirmed that Myst 5 begins EXACTLY when Uru ends. You link into K'veer at the end of Uru, thus triggering the last movie, and Gamespy just confirmed that you begin Myst 5 in K'veer.

I **** well better have my freaking Relto linking book, or at the very least a KI. That Relto book was awesome.

JustBrett
08-29-2005, 01:48 PM
Wait a sec. We've been very certain since last January or February that Myst V begins in K'veer, because we were told that the game begins where the original Myst left off. (*Where* the original left off, not *when*, as RAWA emphasized to us.)

Who said it begins exactly when Uru ends?

Layniel
08-29-2005, 02:23 PM
mmh i looked at the gamespy preview...

once again a previewer tells that there is no introduction, but its most likely because its a beta

"our preview started us in a palatial room with carved columns and a bit of rubble...This place, as we found later, is called K'Veer"

hehe we already knew that

"If you're seeking my father, his time has passed,"
dead atrus... thought that

the only thing that makes me think its after Uru, is the elevator in the chasm... from what i recall the D'ni didnt make that elevator, so there are only two possibilities Atrus or DRC made them the latter would imply it to be after Uru

im so getting a new graphic card for birthday

@justbrett's sig
no animals were harmed in the production of this message... but what about bahro? I better hope you didnt hurt them or Yeesha'll come after you

JustBrett
08-29-2005, 06:47 PM
Originally posted by CyberCrrash75:
the only thing that makes me think its after Uru, is the elevator in the chasm... from what i recall the D'ni didnt make that elevator
Check the Book of Ti'ana. After the Great Shaft was first completed, there was a major earthquake. Aitrus and Veovis were riding on the elevator, and Veovis nearly fell off it to his doom. Aitrus saved his life. So, the elevator existed right from the beginning.

(From the sound of one of the previews, and from what I can see in the screenshots, there may actually be more than one elevator. We know that one of the elevators stops at some point well above the bottom of the shaft, and its tracks end there. But, we can also see in another screenshot that there are elevator tracks from above ending at the four carpeted walkways. Plus, of course, a round platform that runs from the bottom of the shaft up to the walkways.)


@justbrett's sig
no animals were harmed in the production of this message... but what about bahro? I better hope you didnt hurt them or Yeesha'll come after you
The "bahro" version of my sig is the one I use on the forum of the Bahroglyph Study Group at the D'ni Linguistic Fellowship. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I intend to be kind to Bahro until Esher convinces me otherwise.

Boyue65
08-29-2005, 09:29 PM
Come now, Brett. Even you, a relentless rationalist, has to consider the various implications that we've received over the last while.

Consider:
A) The Uru's "end" was in K'veer, as you linked in to watch Yeesha's light show. The only purpose to the age was as a gateway.
B) The ages in Myst 5 were supposed to have been released in Uru, as continuous expansion packs.

Based solely on that, it makes a great deal of sense for Uru to lead into Myst 5 -- since you wouldn't have ended your journey in K'veer, merely continued it. It makes sense to presume that most of the Age was already well into production for Uru, and when that tanked, they simply saved the work and started changing it for Myst 5 -- that way, Ubisoft gets the most bang for their buck.

Yeah, I'm aware that you're not convinced. I'm still sticking to that theory. It makes the most sense from a narrative perspective and from a more real perspective -- that of the way development works.

On another note, I'd like to say that if Noloben is as short as it is in the Demo, that I already have a problem with it. I was hoping for a much larger Age for Noloben, and I hope that we end up exploring an underground warren that holds the Bahro.

Mr Zebe D
08-30-2005, 01:44 AM
It's been confirmed that Myst 5 begins EXACTLY when Uru ends.

No.

Where.

> A quick clarification on one line in the press release (because I
> misread it the first time I read it):
>
> "Picking up immediately where the original Myst ended..."
>
> Notice it says "where", not "when".
>
> http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
>
> RAWA

Layniel
08-30-2005, 02:56 AM
Originally posted by JustBrett:
Check the Book of Ti'ana. After the Great Shaft was first completed, there was a major earthquake. Aitrus and Veovis were riding on the elevator, and Veovis nearly fell off it to his doom. Aitrus saved his life. So, the elevator existed right from the beginning.

i remember veovis almost falling and Aitrus saving him, but i didnt remember it was an elevator... have to read it again...
but was it fixed sometime? if not you would still need atrus or DRC to fix it


Originally posted by Boyue65:
B) The ages in Myst 5 were supposed to have been released in Uru, as continuous expansion packs.

that doesnt really mean that the ages didnt exist previously to Uru...

and from narrative perspective.... Stranger goes to Tomahna doesnt find anyone... on Atrus' desk he sees the book to K'veer and links (sure, he should by now have learned to first check if there even is a linking book back)

the only problem would be, how old would the stranger have to be?

uecasm
08-30-2005, 03:19 AM
Originally posted by CyberCrrash75:
i remember veovis almost falling and Aitrus saving him, but i didnt remember it was an elevator... have to read it again...
but was it fixed sometime? if not you would still need atrus or DRC to fix it No, because the Book of Ti'ana also stated that even after all the quakes made them decide to abandon the Great Shaft, D'ni pride required them to fix everything that had been broken. (Page 112 in my edition, in fact.)

And the main transport was originally a tracked carriage, spiraling around the Shaft. But since that was severely damaged, when they rebuilt things they may have put in a vertical lift instead.

Layniel
08-30-2005, 05:10 AM
dammit i think im gonna read the books again

JustBrett
08-30-2005, 05:32 AM
Originally posted by Boyue65:
Come now, Brett. Even you, a relentless rationalist, has to consider the various implications that we've received over the last while.
Oh, I'm not disagreeing with you that Myst V likely takes place sometime after Uru. I'm just arguing with your statement that it's "confirmed". http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif The evidence isn't nearly that strong yet, and others (such as Alahmnat) have good arguments for the other point of view.


Based solely on that, it makes a great deal of sense for Uru to lead into Myst 5 -- since you wouldn't have ended your journey in K'veer, merely continued it.
Now this I have to disagree with. In Uru we were ourselves, participating in the story as it unfolded. Like real life, there were no alternate endings, and if you did not witness an event at the time it happened (like the death of Phil Henderson), then you missed it; you can't go back and "replay" it.

OTOH, Myst V will have alternate endings, suggesting that we are playing a game following in the footsteps of the person who actually lived the events. We don't roleplay in the Myst games; we experience the games as ourselves. But it's more of a "what if" simulation. We know that we weren't really the ones who rescued Atrus in Myst, because it's logically impossible for all of us who played the game to have done it. We know that there was a single person -- the Stranger -- who performed the rescue, but we're exploring the actions that might have been taken if it HAD been us instead.

I don't really see how EoA can be "us" continuing our Uru journey. We must again be exploring the possible actions available to the person who actually lived the events. While the game will continue the Uru story, it will not be "Uru II", but a return to the spirit of the Myst series.

Eat_My_Shortz
08-30-2005, 08:32 AM
I still reckon its set before Uru.
To have the DRC in a myst game would be awkward.

And speaking of which, there IS no DRC in this game, we haven't seen a single cone, journal, stamp, anything that is the DRC's hallmark. It's looking very much like a Myst game.

Another possibility is that they simply won't tell you when it's set.

For the case of "it begins WHERE myst left off" and everyones going "ooh ooh thats where POTS left off".... well, yeah but its also at the end of where MYST left off, which means .. well it doesn't mean anything at all. That place has existed for the whole time, we've visited it so many times anyway, there's no way to tell WHEN its set just because of the fact you're in that room.


A) ... The only purpose to the age was as a gateway.
And also, as a closure to Uru, to wrap up in a special place for Myst fans and close Yeesha's journey. That's the purpose of having K'veer at the end of POTS. It's not leading into anything at all.


B) The ages in Myst 5 were supposed to have been released in Uru, as continuous expansion packs.
They changed. A lot. As I said, if it were Uru, there'd probably be DRC stuff all over Noloben.

JustBrett
08-30-2005, 09:19 AM
Originally posted by Eat_My_Shortz:
To have the DRC in a myst game would be awkward.
But the DRC left the cavern, so why would they be in this game if it's after Uru?


And speaking of which, there IS no DRC in this game, we haven't seen a single cone, journal, stamp, anything that is the DRC's hallmark.
We haven't been anywhere that we know they left such hallmarks. We never saw any cones in K'veer or in the Great Shaft. We did see Watson's journal in the eder tomahn, but it could easily have been removed since then. (And there's still a possibility that the cot was imported by the DRC.)


As I said, if it were Uru, there'd probably be DRC stuff all over Noloben.
Why? Noloben was inhabited, and it would have been pretty unfriendly of the DRC to come barging into someone else's home with a bunch of cones and barricades. They were just secretly visiting and talking to Esher, not doing any restoration engineering that we know of. The DRC may not have visited some of the Ages in EoA, and may not have done anything but a preliminary survey on Laki or Todelmer, so they would have no reason to leave stuff lying around in those Ages.

Boyue65
08-30-2005, 12:22 PM
I'll concede that it's not confirmed -- I was a bit hasty there. Still, it seems that the implications that we've received add up into that conclusion, and I'mma stick to me guns here.

Brett, have you forgotten the speech that Yeesha gave us at the end of the first set of ages in Uru? She told us that at some point in time, we'd have to make a choice and take sides. That's the reason she gave us the new shirt in the first place. The details of that choice were never explained.

Now, that didn't go through, since Uru Live was cancelled. However, that DID leave the designers with a ton of storyline. I suspect that they're just using what they had to tell the rest of the tale.

EDIT: And yeah, the DRC has long since vacated the cavern, and while they left some stuff lying around, they're gone. Watson even grabbed his journal in the halfway rest point.

Layniel
08-30-2005, 05:46 PM
nooo!! no one can remove a cone! they are evil spirits bound to the area the were first set to... they are everwhere... esher wasnt refering to the bahro all along he was talking about those cones which infested his home and dont want to leave!!!


That's the reason she gave us the new shirt in the first place
now...youll have to choose between me and esher... but dont forget, that i once gave you a pretty cool t-shirt! so vote for me!

wasnt there some communication trouble with the d'ni in noloben? but in myst 5 esher ends up talking with us, and the player understands what he says, wouldnt that mean, that someone thaught him english? (or atrus thaught the stranger D'ni)

also my theory is... DRC finds Esher, Yeesha hears about that, Yeesha asks Esher for help after Drc are gone, esher tries and finds out that he shouldnt help yeesha, yeesha goes find someone else to help her (us)

larsschermer
09-01-2005, 05:26 PM
You might not be able to link to any of the new ages in EoA, using conventionel linking books. If the bahro can create links using "the art" differently they might reestablish links with places like K'ver. Most of the linking books verre destroyed during the fall of D'ni, and when the DRC came they only had the remaining books to use. i reacall a journal entry, about someone being puzzled over the linking stones, so the DRC might not have researched alternate linking options thoroughly.

i dont get this talk about Yeesha being able to time travel, where did that come from? she has aged in EoA hence it takes place later then UrU, or did i miss something vital?

the Slate might have been made by someone else entirely. Maybe the Bahro had a fall like the D'ni and they are now reduced to there current state...

The choice, there might be third option, neither Yeesha nor Esher...like in Myst.

JustBrett
09-01-2005, 07:03 PM
Originally posted by larsschermer:
i dont get this talk about Yeesha being able to time travel, where did that come from?
Did you play the last Uru expansion pack, "The Path of the Shell"? That covers her ability.

larsschermer
09-02-2005, 05:24 AM
yeah, i played all the UrU games(Prologue - Path of ther shell) but i must have missed some things along the way, i thought Yeesah was able to change an age, not actualy "time travel" where is that refferenced? I know about the 4 spheres and all, but i never came a cross any hard evidence about yeesha's ability to travle in time. also i seem to have missed a lot of EoA refferences in UrU i heard that Noloben was mentioned in a journal...where? witch one?

Mr Zebe D
09-02-2005, 06:05 AM
Time travel is at the end with the "future" empty vault and her note about having saved Kadish's life.

I'm not sure if it's a Sharper journal (but I think it is) that refers to Noloben not being empty.

Mowog
09-02-2005, 06:56 AM
i dont get this talk about Yeesha being able to time travel, where did that come from? she has aged in EoA hence it takes place later then UrU, or did i miss something vital? That was my initial thought as well, but it must be remembered that we don't actually meet Yeesha face-to-face in Uru, we only see a hologram... and who knows when she recorded that? Perhaps when she was much younger, and anticipating the coming of surface visitors to D'ni, hopefully to restore it... By the time the whole Uru saga unfolded, it could have been years after the hologram was recorded.

Just a thought.

(Wait, just another thought; don't we actually meet Yeesha late in Uru, like toward the end of PotS? It's been a while and I don't remember exactly.)

larsschermer
09-02-2005, 07:27 AM
n't we actually meet Yeesha late in Uru, like toward the end of PotS?
yeah we meet Yeesha in the Rainy cleft

JustBrett
09-02-2005, 08:34 AM
Originally posted by Mr Zebe D:
Time travel is at the end with the "future" empty vault and her note about having saved Kadish's life.

I'm not sure if it's a Sharper journal (but I think it is) that refers to Noloben not being empty.
There's also time travel involved when you drop the pellets into the upper Bahro cave, and then link back to the past in the lower cave, waiting for the pellet to appear from the future. Finally, there is time travel involved at the end of PotS, where you link to two different versions of K'veer. In the first version, before Yeesha's speech, the door is blocked by a pile of rubble. When Yeesha brings you back to K'veer, the rubble is gone.

Regarding Noloben: the information is on the desk in Sharper's city office. He intercepted a memo written to Dr. Watson by Dr. Sutherland that talks about a D'ni survivor being found in a house on Noloben. A survivor who knows a "whole lot" about "the creatures".

Mr Zebe D
09-02-2005, 08:36 AM
Thanks, JB. I never noticed the K'veer time travel!

larsschermer
09-02-2005, 09:55 AM
ahh but that might just be an alterred version of K'ver, like rainy cleft and cleft, the Bahro are able to efect an age at will, and thye seem too be pretty tight with Yeesha. The pellet might just take a long time to fall.

I dont know i dont think its actual time travel.

Mowog
09-02-2005, 10:45 AM
The pellet might just take a long time to fall. My understanding is that the time they take to fall is merely to allow you time to link from the upper cave to the lower. Originally, you would have had a partner waiting below to see the effects right away, but with the demise of Uru online, and the need to adapt several puzzles to single-player, the time delay element was added.

I know I'm not the only one who found it really confusing. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Boyue65
09-02-2005, 10:06 PM
It was still an interesting puzzle in that, properly explained, it added a bit of backstory to normal D'ni time -- to be exact, a way to tell time for them. It figures that would be different, too.

I'm not sure that's time travel, Brett -- it could be that she wrote the change into the Age while we were on our psychedelic light show trip. Odds are against it -- supremely -- but it's possible.

ZeusmeisterX007
09-04-2005, 09:11 AM
It is time-travel because in the speech at the end of the game she says "Time Conquered, Linking Without Books, etc."

mszv
09-08-2005, 11:43 AM
You know, I didn't think there was time travel in Uru, hence the delay in that cave puzzle, to give you time to get from one place to the next.

The Myst series games have never been into time travel, though that's how I explain me getting to play the games! Well, maybe not time travel, more like "going to an alternate universe" travel.

I wonder if we will get to know any of the the bahro, or if they will always just be "the bahro". They are different sentient species - one would think that they might have different personalities. It does seem like it would be hard to tell them apart!

I thought the Esher character was appealing. But, it seemed to me that he is spending way to much time by himself, and it's not exactly as if he's "moved on" from, oh, I don't know, the end of his world. I realize (understatement of the year) that it might be HARD to move on, but it might work out a little better if he wasn't just hanging around, waiting for me to appear (in game).

Just a little thought.

JustBrett
09-08-2005, 06:04 PM
Originally posted by mszv:
You know, I didn't think there was time travel in Uru, hence the delay in that cave puzzle, to give you time to get from one place to the next.
I really wish they hadn't introduced time travel, because it is so hard to handle it well in a story. But, unfortunately, the evidence is pretty clear. Not only in Yeesha's words, but in the Watcher's words, and events in the game. For example, in Words the Watcher describes the abilities of the Grower several times. In the second section we have:


A grower to bring the gathered.
A grower to restore the least.
A grower to move through time.
A grower to link at will.
A grower to follow the shell.
A grower to banish the darkness.
Yeesha does all the other things in this list at one time or another (such as making the Arch glow to banish the darkness), so there's no reason to think that she doesn't also "move through time".

Yeesha certainly had the power to save Kadish, though he died before she was born. There are only two ways she could do that: time travel (so she could prevent him from dying in the first place) or the power to actually raise the dead. I would much rather she did it by time travel, because the other ability would truly make her a god!


I thought the Esher character was appealing. But, it seemed to me that he is spending way to much time by himself, and it's not exactly as if he's "moved on" from, oh, I don't know, the end of his world.
I hope we get some detailed history on this character. I have to wonder if Atrus missed Esher when he was looking for survivors, or if Esher was one of those who refused to join Atrus because of an inability to "move on". Could Esher have been involved with enslaving the Bahro, and is he being held back by feelings of guilt that he won't admit? "Much to learn," as Esher told us. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

salgene
09-08-2005, 11:16 PM
accually when it comes to kadish I don't really think she brought him back to life.(in the since of resurection(sp?) All she had to do is rewrite the age where he died and instead of him being dead he was alive. Its a completely different age. just like the rainy cleft. just write an age of the cleft where its raining.

Unless cyan or someone that accually created the game stated otherwise thats a more acceptable answer to me.
Also when it comes to the pebble drop I beleive it was that you droped it from the past into the future or you dropped it thru a linking path that takes time to go thru.
Also one other thing. even tho the bahro look cute and seem to be the victims, they could be the ones using everyone even yeesha. would be an interesting twist.

mszv
09-09-2005, 01:29 AM
I'm the person who says, over and over, that everything in the games is part of the story, not just what you want.

But, can I just forget about that Kadish thing in the last Uru expansion pack? Heck, I did forget about it before you reminded me.

I like time travel stories myself, but it never really seemed part of a Myst series game. I hope it's not in Myst V, time travel that is.

Eat_My_Shortz
09-09-2005, 05:48 AM
It was totally time travel! In addition to the evidence above, and also the fact that you had to observe the D'ni time keeping device to time the pellet drop (or at least know how long to wait), there is a main SYMBOLIC THEME in POTS to account for time travel.

That theme is that the Grower was SUPPOSED to be capable of time travel. (Hence the passage in Words). This was emphasised hugely in POTS because Kadish pulled the whole time-travel fake on Ahnonay. (A huge part of POTS).

He was the fake grower. Then Yeesha became the real Grower and she COULD link through time. That was fairly much the point...

larsschermer
09-10-2005, 04:19 AM
The elaborate time travel thing constructed by Kardish could be the flaw that made him the fake grower. Remeber Gehn trying to copy the pasages from books instead of writing, he made the Art into a science. Kardish could have taken things to literaly, and this was what set him aside from the true grower.
You can resurrect Kardish without time travel too. Yeesha is the grower, the grower of life. But
why resurrect Kardish? he wasn€t exactly a good person. I remember Yeesah saying something about the seed not trying to replace the tree but rather simply wanting to grow. Yeshaa could have resurrected Kardish in hopes that he might reconcile and grow anew. the time travel thing just poses way to many possibilities for scre.... up any continuity in the story, there are just too many pitfalls to avoid.
I like this much bette then time travel myself.

gadreel23
09-10-2005, 06:49 AM
Isn't anyone ELSE wondering about the inherent, tacit connection between the Bahro "Beast People" and the Reliymah (The Unseen)? It seems to me this would have been a topic of huge debate...but I've never seen anyone bring it up... heh.

The Reliymah in "The Book of D'ni" are described as being FAR more "human" than the creatures that we see skulking about in URU and now in Myst V. So I wonder what the connection there precisely is...

I used to know a woman "In Cavern" who would have known the answers to these questions, but, alas, I have long since lost contact with her. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif But, rest assured, she has most likely thought of this potential contradiction & inconsistency as I have. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

-Gadreel

Mr Zebe D
09-10-2005, 07:03 AM
There's no connection whatsoever. The name was reused.

larsschermer
09-10-2005, 08:08 AM
I brought that topic up long ago. Back when UrU prologue was still running. you might chek the UrU forum.

Eat_My_Shortz
09-10-2005, 08:51 AM
What do u mean there's no connection??? Of course there is.

Atrus in the BOD said that "Ahrotantee" (that is, the Reliymah), word stems from "ahro" -> "bahro" which meant beast people. That was IN the BOD (the word "bahro"). It is the same meaning, and i'm pretty sure the Bahro and the Rel. are basically the same idea.

The point of BOD was that Terahnee was much worse than D'ni because they had slaves which were unseen. We didn't see Bahro in D'ni/Myst til uru because they were unseen too... the point of Uru/MV is that in fact the D'ni ALSO had Bahro, they weren't as squeaky-clean as we always thought!

Mr Zebe D
09-10-2005, 11:30 AM
They aren't the same bahro. The "beast people" in the book are near enough human. The bahro in URU / Myst V are winged animals.

I can agree that Yeesha is drawing parallels though.

Hi Lars! You did indeed! You were part of the beginning of The Mystery of the Bahro Caves when it was serious. It's a pity that you didn't stay around to see what we made of it. It's stickied in the Until URU forum if you ever want to go back and re-read.

uecasm
09-10-2005, 06:34 PM
"Winged"? Where'd that come from?

JustBrett
09-10-2005, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by uecasm:
"Winged"? Where'd that come from?
It's been a theory for a long time, based on the sound of wings heard along with the Bahro calls in Uru, and on the name of one of the sound files in Uru. It has been confirmed by the Bahro model on http://www.fcurve.com/, which is the Web site of Cyan's lead animator, Jason Baskett. Go check out the super cool animation of the Bahro taking off!

mszv
09-10-2005, 06:50 PM
I never got a good idea of what the Bahro were really like, in Uru. I hope I get a better idea this time. From the demo it not's clear - they are sort of undifferentiated to me. I'll be interested to see what they are like, in game. Will they write stuff on the tablet too?