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View Full Version : 4.02 raises a few questions over here...



Dexmeister
10-18-2005, 12:08 PM
WOW! After the long two-week wait, 4.02 is here. With it, some questions seem to arise.

First some background. With 4.01, I was unimpressed to learn that for my video card (Matrox Parhelia which lets me run all good sims in 3 screens), the FOV was borked. Well I guess it's not borked if you consider gunsight view as a good way to fly. So, being an avid fan of this series, I went straight to Oleg's ready room and logged the issue in the official bug report thread, never for a second suspecting it would get ignored.

The fact now is, 4.01 !@#$ed it up, 4.02 it's still !@#$ed, and with that I pretty well have no choice but to stop playing this sorry sack of crud. I know I know, it's great for all of you, not so over here, and considering it's due to a simple oversight that's been made x-teen times before, I've had enough.

So, the questions that have arisen:
1. Will BOB comply with the great software dev standards this series has?
2. Do bug threads get read by anyone other than us?
3. Does anyone know how long the next 14 days will be, and whether or not there's any point in waiting that many months?
4. Is UBI or 1C hiring anyone for Q/C? They should.
5. Is there any way to get my money back on a stack of useless boxes full of CDs that once worked but thanks to "upgrades" don't?

I know, this won't be well received by fans who are happy with the patch. I'm happy for you, glad many of you are now all patched up and ready to rock. I guess I'm just a little peeved that after waiting so many friggen months for the next installment of this now-dead-to-me-sim, I figured I'd at least make a note explaining how the once-best sim has now become the most lame-**** sorry piece of **** on my computer. Strike Fighters and CFS3 now serve more purpose...

I know, I should be just ecstatic with yet another patch, but when it fails to fix what the last free patch bungled, I'm a little less than appreciative...

Shame, I was really looking forward to flying again!

quiet_man
10-18-2005, 12:34 PM
have you reported to the e-mail noted in the readme?

don't want to sound bright, but there are no official bug report threads here and at least a few people here reported they got responce from writing e-mails

quiet_man

ashley2005
10-18-2005, 12:40 PM
there is http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif go to olegs ready room and take a peak at the top stickied thread http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Dexmeister
10-18-2005, 01:28 PM
As usual always a lot of support from fellow simmers around here.

I could have an ATI or Nvidia, but actually sold one of each and chose the vid card I have for a reason. This game supported Matrox when it came out and doesn't after multiple "well done" patches.

Whether or not they care, the fact remains it's a simple oversight they've made, as usual, and one that would be easy to address, if they didn't have heads dans les arses.

BTW, you think I'm the first that stopped flying this sim for such a silly reason? Think again after you try to figure out where all the oldtimers went...

Old_Canuck
10-18-2005, 02:03 PM
Originally posted by Dexmeister:
....you think I'm the first that stopped flying this sim for such a silly reason? Think again after you try to figure out where all the oldtimers went...

The big question IS - does anyone here miss those "old timers?" Will anyone here miss Dex? Sorry Dexmeister. When people drop out of the forum their name seldom comes up again. Unless of course the name was R-Y B-N J----Y. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Doug_Thompson
10-18-2005, 02:19 PM
Actually, this is a serious problem €" for the makers of the Matrox Parhelia.

I assume this is a high-end video card since you wouldn't be running three screens on a cheap one. Well, if the makers of such a card don't have the drivers or whatever to run one of the most popular flight sims still made, they have a very serious problem.

Call them, if you haven't already. At the very least, they can work with or lean on Maddox Games on your behalf.

Dexmeister
10-18-2005, 02:34 PM
Call them, if you haven't already. At the very least, they can work with or lean on Maddox Games on your behalf.

The thing is, their drivers are great, updated regularly, support a slew of stuff, no problem.

This game has supported triplehead since FB. There's nothing Matrox can do when Oleg's team botch the FOV.

The problem is really simple, since 4.01, when I zoom out as far as possible, I can only see the gunsight. Matrox sent Oleg a video card to test with, his team just forgot to use it for the past two patches...

I like this game, but refuse to play it on one screen....

Imagine playing with one of your eyes tied behind your back and you'll know what I mean http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Spectre_USA
10-18-2005, 07:53 PM
Hrrmmm...

I can feel the love. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

As it did work, and it doesn't now, due to patches,
you would figure it to be not so tough to un-fugger it,
eh? Sorry, just an old-timers thoughts. If it flies in
the face of the current crop of crazies, oh well.

And Hiya Dex, long time no see! http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/bye.gif

Dexmeister
10-18-2005, 08:18 PM
Originally posted by Spectre_USA:
And Hiya Dex, long time no see! http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/bye.gif

HEY Spectre! Long time! I'd offer to shoot you and the rest of the BlitzPigs down but I'm at a bit of technical disadvantage what with one eye tied behind my back & all. Mind you it's a good way to watch my 6 around all the piggies http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Anyways, back to the situation at hand... I can play FB on a 100" screen via projector and experience it in all the glory of a single screen, but I don't want to go back to a limited FOV after knowing "the dark side", ie. triplehead gaming. When ATI and NVidia finally arrive on that scene with it you'll see what I mean.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but does it make removal of once operational functionality for no reason more acceptable?

LEXX_Luthor
10-18-2005, 08:28 PM
Good point. Imagine the people looking for a replacement front grille for 1967 Ford F-100 truck. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

I guess if I tried 3 monitors I would not want to go back. Good luck, and ya hope for Nvder and AIT to go multiple monitor too.

Tully__
10-18-2005, 10:07 PM
Dex, it's not just you. The "bug" applies for anyone not running 4:3 aspect ratio. IIRC, 1C:Maddox have stated the sim doesn't support aspect ratios other than 4:3, so while the parhelia's worked well for a while it's not currently working as you'd like.

With the widescreen TFT's becoming ever more common, I can't imagine this will continue to be ignored, but I'd suggest you grab the email addy out of the readme and send off some screenshots of the issue to 1C:Maddox as the best means of getting attention on this issue.

EJGrOst_Caspar
10-19-2005, 02:18 AM
I second this! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

And if you want to get rid of the gunsight prob - just use 'window-mode' (in IL-2 settings) and play it on one monitor untill your time is come. I use this feature on my widescreen notebook and its ok with me.

Bearcat99
10-19-2005, 06:43 AM
Originally posted by Tully__:
Dex, it's not just you. The "bug" applies for anyone not running 4:3 aspect ratio. IIRC, 1C:Maddox have stated the sim doesn't support aspect ratios other than 4:3, so while the parhelia's worked well for a while it's not currently working as you'd like.

With the widescreen TFT's becoming ever more common, I can't imagine this will continue to be ignored, but I'd suggest you grab the email addy out of the readme and send off some screenshots of the issue to 1C:Maddox as the best means of getting attention on this issue.

Reason.................. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

All the slamming isnt really necessary.... The man may not have been very eloquent but he does have a point (Dex I mean). Hey Dex cant you run the Matrox in 4:3 for this sim only till the problem gets rectified?

Dexmeister
10-19-2005, 08:10 AM
Firstly, Matrox is supported by FB/PF.

Secondly, it's not just as one big monitor, Oleg was the first sim developer to implement THREE VIEWPORTS, meaning PF is outputting three monitor's worth of information in separate streams, all at once, not just one stretched screen.

The Parhelia is not a POS, it's just not up the the weekly FPS competitions that NVidia and ATI owners like to run. I'm not all into FPS when I can have 2 extra screens worth of information while simming. It's simply unparalleled even by the best NVidia or ATI cards, and if you ever tried it you'd see this is true.

JerryFodder
10-19-2005, 08:47 AM
I don't get track IR anyway, what use is it? You turn your head from the monitor to look behind you but the monitor stays where it is so you have to stretch your eyes to one side. Basically you can't look behind - what a waste of money.

Dexmeister
10-19-2005, 09:02 AM
Originally posted by JerryFodder:
I don't get track IR anyway, what use is it? You turn your head from the monitor to look behind you but the monitor stays where it is so you have to stretch your eyes to one side. Basically you can't look behind - what a waste of money.

With three screens it's awesome! I look a tiny bit to the left, and WOW, I get to look over my left wing. Look a tiny bit to the right, and voila, I can look over my right wing. It's actually a lot like *gasp* the real situational awareness a pilot of a WW2 plane would have! Go figure, eh?

Even on a single screen its pretty cool, but you've got to see it on three, what an experience!

joeap
10-19-2005, 09:05 AM
Originally posted by Dexmeister:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JerryFodder:
I don't get track IR anyway, what use is it? You turn your head from the monitor to look behind you but the monitor stays where it is so you have to stretch your eyes to one side. Basically you can't look behind - what a waste of money.

With three screens it's awesome! I look a tiny bit to the left, and WOW, I get to look over my left wing. Look a tiny bit to the right, and voila, I can look over my right wing. It's actually a lot like *gasp* the real situational awareness a pilot of a WW2 plane would have! Go figure, eh?

Even on a single screen its pretty cool, but you've got to see it on three, what an experience! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dex I can only imagine. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif No space in my flat.

JerryFodder
10-19-2005, 09:06 AM
I can understand with 3, but 1, I guess your head turn is accellarated so you turn part way and look all the way around.....wierd.

LEXX_Luthor
10-19-2005, 09:32 AM
I must admit, TAGERT would agree 100% with Dex on the Future thing.

And...a stack of 3 monitors is cheaper than one Nvida or ATI "UltraPro" video card, especially TWO of those SLI double rip-offs.

BSR_RuGGBuTT
10-19-2005, 09:55 AM
Originally posted by JerryFodder:
I don't get track IR anyway, what use is it? You turn your head from the monitor to look behind you but the monitor stays where it is so you have to stretch your eyes to one side. Basically you can't look behind - what a waste of money.
You've never used it then. Do you remember when you transitioned from a keyboard to a joystick to fly with? This is the same thing.

You can imagine how it works all you want, I even saw videos used with it before I bought one. After I bought one I finally had a clue about how it worked. Until you try it for yourself you can't imagine what a necessary piece of hardware it is.

If you play on a server with no externals, no labels you are at a huge disadvantage if you don't have TrackIR.

Stigler_9_JG52
10-19-2005, 10:14 AM
Dex wrote:

Three screens isn't a cheat in sims, it's the future...

Be that as it may, it seems you find it too much of an inconvenience to play anything without your pet settings, which are pretty advanced.

There's your problem: you're blaming the sim based on your raised expectations. That's like someone whose TrackIR breaks blaming the sim because now he has to use a hat switch to get his views.

I'd think that the measure of a sim would be if it's enjoyable played like majority of us play it: on one screen, with a basic stick & rudder setup (and possibly a throttle).

MrQBerrt
10-19-2005, 10:18 AM
Every once in awhile I consider getting a Matrox card so I can setup the 3 screen thing with the IL2 series. Now I guess I wont consider doing that anymore. I haven't read this whole thread, but I agree that wide aspect ratios should be supported by the game.

TgD Thunderbolt56
10-19-2005, 10:48 AM
Wide aspect ratios SHOULD be supported, but for now, they aren't. It's a shame and one of the main reasons I've chosen not to get that fancy 23" widescreen I've been coveting.

Sooner or later (perhaps in BoB) they WILL be supported. Until then I'll keep what I have.

I understand Dex's frustration as I've seen flight-sims (including an iteration of IL2) running on multiple monitors and it is really SWEET. The fact it doesn't currently support it though doesn't make it **** or unplayable...at least not for me.


TB

Dexmeister
10-19-2005, 10:56 AM
FYI, way back when all we had was IL2, and FB was about to come out, I was excited to find that Oleg was planning support for triplehead gaming. It was for that reason alone, (FB), that I got into a Matrox card. It's an awesome way to sim, and onced worked with FB/PF, CFS3, FS2004, Strike Fighters, LOMAC, Ghost Recon, XPlane, and on and on I can go. The bottom line is my love for this sim was the original reason for me even bothering with triplehead, hence the reason I'm let down that support was lost for it after 4.01.

I suppose I can go back to the original shipped version to play offline, but that's kind of a drag.

One thing for sure, I don't game on single screens anymore, it's just too limited in its feeling of realism, which I know doesn't make sense to most of you running top-end cards on single screens.

Dexmeister
10-19-2005, 11:02 AM
Hmmm. Decided to look back at Matrox's Surround Gaming pages, and look what they have:

"The tactical advantages of Surround Gaming for Forgotten Battles are enormous. Surround Gaming radically enhances your peripheral vision which is crucial in air combat."
- Oleg Maddox, 1C:Maddox Games

From here:
http://www.matrox.com/mga/3d_gaming/enhanced_games/forgotten_battles.cfm

This is why I just don't think Oleg & crew meant to disable/bork it...

Here's the full surround gaming list (though many more games work too):
http://www.matrox.com/mga/3d_gaming/surrgame.cfm

FYI

Willey
10-19-2005, 11:13 AM
I'd like to know what ppl would say if one patch disabled TIR support http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

C'mon, even if there's just a minority that uses a Matrox card, Dex has a point here http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Gibbage1
10-19-2005, 01:18 PM
Originally posted by Dexmeister:
Hmmm. Decided to look back at Matrox's Surround Gaming pages, and look what they have:

"The tactical advantages of Surround Gaming for Forgotten Battles are enormous. Surround Gaming radically enhances your peripheral vision which is crucial in air combat."
- Oleg Maddox, 1C:Maddox Games

From here:
http://www.matrox.com/mga/3d_gaming/enhanced_games/forgotten_battles.cfm

This is why I just don't think Oleg & crew meant to disable/bork it...

Here's the full surround gaming list (though many more games work too):
http://www.matrox.com/mga/3d_gaming/surrgame.cfm

FYI

OK. You have a point. But the Matrox card is still a POS. BTW, I got my info about how Matrox handles tri-head gaming from game developers who had to work with the POS.

Dr...Watson
10-19-2005, 02:26 PM
What did Oleg say in his reply to your Email, he must have gave you some update/reason?

Dexmeister
10-19-2005, 02:48 PM
Originally posted by Dr...Watson:
What did Oleg say in his reply to your Email, he must have gave you some update/reason?

Depends which time you mean. Way way back when one of the FB patches borked it, he asked me to include additional screenshots of the problem so I did. After 4.01 no response, so far after 4.02 no response.

We'll see what happens, but honestly things like this are what is slowly driving me to console gaming. Unfortunately sims aren't console material, or at least good ones aren't....

d9720267
10-19-2005, 05:37 PM
So, being an avid fan of this series, I went straight to Oleg's ready room and logged the issue in the official bug report thread, never for a second suspecting it would get ignored.

Excuse me while I say ...

LOL!!!!

Dexmeister
10-19-2005, 05:43 PM
Originally posted by d9720267:
Excuse me while I say ...

LOL!!!!

Glad someone sees the humour in my prose. Many others seem to be fumbling their way out of panty-knots http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

BSR_RuGGBuTT
10-19-2005, 06:56 PM
While yet others laff at you. The horror!

Dexmeister
10-19-2005, 06:59 PM
Originally posted by BSR_RuGGBuTT:
While yet others laff at you. The horror!

There's plenty of clever people in the world that people "laff" at, doesn't make them any less clever...

Besides, getting cut up by a bunch of people when you have an opinion different than the norm is standard fare around here.

CFS3 anyone? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Treetop64
10-19-2005, 08:12 PM
I know I'm a bit late showing up, but...

...Matrox?! There's actually beings out there that still use Matrox? Dude, developers are dropping support for that chipset like a bad prostitute.

Bro, I sympathise with you, but you might want to consider either an ATI or NVidia purchase, and dump that chuckwagon posing as a G-card. Matrox was good in it's day, but it's day has passed, as will it be for ATI and NVidia in the future. Then it will be another monster graphics card stealing all of the attention - say, perhaps, Texas Instuments. Or even Cyrix. You'll never know...

Dexmeister
10-19-2005, 09:59 PM
I've got 3 PCs sitting under my desk with Matrox, ATI and Nvidia and I've never even installed sims up on the singlehead machines.

On my sim box, by choice, is the Matrox, trackIR, CHPedals, stick and yoke (FS2004), force feedback chair and an output to a projector.

This is stone age stuff, what with more than one screen & all....

Would you give this up?

http://www.asic.ca/simgallery/GALLERY_EU/images/727_1.jpg

http://www.asic.ca/simgallery/GALLERY_EU/images/Iceland3.jpg

http://www.asic.ca/FS2004/f18_landing01.jpg

http://www.asic.ca/FS2004/fscockpit04.jpg

http://www.asic.ca/FS2004/fscockpit02.jpg

Badsight.
10-19-2005, 10:09 PM
i cant believe the replys you are getting Dexmeister

arcadeace
10-19-2005, 10:55 PM
Do we have the official word here to buy a Parhelia with a couple more monitors and get good in-game graphics settings and resolution with no slide show frame rates in the midst of the action?

Excuse me if I€m skeptical but of course Matrox is gonna promote a feature other cards don€t have, but how well does it really apply? Cards from NV and ATI 3 and 4 times more powerful then the Parhelia can have problems preventing eye strain frame rates under a variety of situations. Reviews show it about on par with the GF3Ti200.

I€m also wondering about a of statement of yours and at least some of your apparent justification expecting this sim to comply with your desire to use the card. You say FB and Oleg€s word are the reasons you got the Matrox but I seem to recall at Netwings you playing with it soon after CFS3 was out, well before FB hit the shelves when Il2 was the competitor. I think you even described a makeshift setup then before owning 3 monitors? Am I wrong... you did not have it that time?

Here's some specifics on the card:

Pixel shaders are limited to v1.3, or DirectX 8.1.

80 Million Transistors
UMC 0.15µ process
220MHz Core clock speed
4 Pixel Pipes
4 Texture units per pipe
880M pixel/s, 3520M texels per sec
75MHz DDR RAM (550MHz effective)
256 bit memory bus
17.6GB/s Memory bandwidth
AGP4X

Review done in Nov. 02: Matrox say they are refocusing Parhelia on the workstation market, which will probably make good use of the multi-monitor options; however, does this rule it out for the consumer market? If you are a high end gamer then it's unquestionable that you'd be looking at either the Radeon 9700 PRO or the upcoming GeForce FX for pure performance and future features. But if you are looking for reasonably good performance in current games, with all the features necessary to run them, Parhelia is certainly worth considering if you can afford it. If 2D and/or multi-monitor support are also a high priority then Parhelia requires some attention.

Gibbage1
10-19-2005, 11:13 PM
Last time I asked Oleg about wide screen gaming (Pre 4.01) his reply was "Its problem with graphics driver, not my problem.". Odd considering I had the same problem with both ATI and Nvidia.

Dexmeister
10-20-2005, 06:54 AM
Not sure who's asking me what, but ArcadeAce poses some good questions.

First off, I bought the Parhelia the moment I got confirmation that FB was going to support it. CFS3 and FS2004 were already a given, so I knew I was getting into technology that would work with many good sims. That said, it was 100% FB that helped me decide. I even flew FB as a beta tester to double-check that triplehead worked as expected. Same went for LOMAC.

The bottom line is, there's people who want the highest FPS, and there's others (me) who want more than just FPS. The Parhelia is not a speed demon by any means, but it offers a huge increase in immersion, somewhat on par with what trackIR has done for many of you.

I wouldn't by any means recommend you folks go out and buy a Parhelia given the superior performance of ATI and NVidia's offerings, but let it also be said that people who have Parhelias are VERY VERY glad they do. In our collective opinion, once you've seen surround gaming, you don't want to go back.

Triplehead gaming on 3 21" monitors with trackIR is something to behold. As long as mainstream sims support it, my main simming box will be running it. No sales pitch here, just where I'm at with it.

If in the future BOB doesn't support triplehead, I won't be surprised and will likely get an entirely new machine just for that. It's having support for hardware removed from a game by a simple patch that I'm surprised by.

As for the comments I've seen here "majority rules" and all that, I assure you there was once a time where trackIR users were a minority, and even now they probably are. Does that make it alright for trackIR support to be removed? trackIR users can answer that, right?

aklabo
10-20-2005, 09:29 AM
Hi guys
DEX is 100% right ( I have just wide screen 24" )and can't usit for thi sim. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif I think it is schame for FB ) AND NOW I SEE EVEN BETTER JOUK . IF U HAVE P4 PROCCESOR YOU HAVE TO DO THIS AND THAT AND GAME MIGHT WORK PROPERLY ??!! ( how many of as have diferent proccesor then P4 ?? Who knows where this sim . going . Little scary and disipointning
sorry for speling
Reg. Klabo_71st

d9720267
10-20-2005, 11:29 AM
1. Anyone who criticizes Dex for wanting to use his 3-monitor setup (or claims that Oleg shouldn't bother supporting multimonitors) obviously has never experienced a 3-monitor setup themselves, and do not appreciate the MASSIVE increase in IMMERSION and REALISM it gives.

2. Anyone who criticizes Dex for using an 'old' Matrox card should feel free to suggest other cards he could try THAT SUPPORT 3 MONITORS.

Dexmeister
10-20-2005, 12:35 PM
Originally posted by d9720267:
1. Anyone who criticizes Dex for wanting to use his 3-monitor setup (or claims that Oleg shouldn't bother supporting multimonitors) obviously has never experienced a 3-monitor setup themselves, and do not appreciate the MASSIVE increase in IMMERSION and REALISM it gives.

2. Anyone who criticizes Dex for using an 'old' Matrox card should feel free to suggest other cards he could try THAT SUPPORT 3 MONITORS.

Thanks, well said.

If NVidia or ATI came out with a viable triplehead option with native support like Matrox has, even though it would easily cost double the best top-end cards, I'd buy it today, much like I did when I bought my current card...

IVJG51_Swine
10-20-2005, 03:56 PM
I definitely think the idea behind the Matrox card is pretty cool. From what I have seen on their website it offers you great situational awareness. I hope that ATI and Nvidia can jump on the bandwagon with this one day. To me it is very immersive to have the triplehead view. I feel for you Dex because I agree that the more you can view "from the cockpit" in a flight sim, the better. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

IVJG51_Swine
10-20-2005, 04:04 PM
BTW, I don't know Dexmeister personally(I don't even own a matrox card) but I do know of his reputation in the matrox forums. He has always supported IL-2 to the max over there and has been of assistance to many, many people trying to get their systems operating well for IL-2 with those video cards. My advice, don't give up Dex, just keep pushing the issue as professionally as possible, you never know m8..
~S~

Dexmeister
10-20-2005, 04:25 PM
Thanks for the words Swine, it's true, I've tried to get the word of the IL2 series out wherever I go because I've always felt it was the best of its kind.

I'm a simmer at heart, and a tweaker as well, I'm glad to help others when I can, and unfortunately in this case it's all up to Oleg & his team... Otherwise I'd have resolved it by now...

FoolTrottel
10-20-2005, 04:53 PM
Dexmeister,

Do not give up, not yet!

Keep telling Oleg, keep asking.

Have you tried to get organized, as in joining up with other Matrox users regarding this issue?

Good Luck!

AWL_Spinner
10-21-2005, 07:49 AM
Stick with it, I think you've a better than fair chance of getting a fix from 1C if the capability was previously in the sim. I'd love to be able to run the setup you have there!

I remember when TrackIR was a device only for the geeky few, and was widely derided by everybody else who swore that their hatswitch was just as immersive.

Incidentally you're from Canada aren't you? How happy was I today to learn there's now a genuine bona-fide Tim Hortons in one of the M25 motorway services here in the UK!

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Dexmeister
10-21-2005, 07:54 AM
Timmy's in UK? Sweet! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

crazyivan1970
10-21-2005, 10:55 AM
Dex PM what you need and i`ll try to help.

d9720267
10-21-2005, 11:55 AM
Originally posted by Treetop64:
Anyone can crank all of the bars "all the way to the right" and make stupendous screenshots, but what's your FPS? Curious you're not showing them in your screenshots.

I'm only stating this, not to cheese you off or anything, but to proclaim that it is well worth the effort and financial expenditure to invest in a new G-card with the latest drivers.

You've completely missed the point of Dex's screenshots. You are supposed to be looking at the fact that he's running 3 monitors simultaneously - why are you going on and on about 'sliders all the way to the right' and FPS? I would gladly sacrifice some eye candy if it meant I could run 3 monitors.

Hopefully SLI and Crossfire will mean that in the future more people will have 2 graphics cards in their systems. Then there will be a larger market for supporting multimonitors, AND we'll be able to have all the eye candy.

Dexmeister
10-21-2005, 12:10 PM
Yeah, whatever happened to Crossfire anyways? I'm all for the big guys getting into the fray, I just wish they'd do it! Last I recall reading about Crossfire ATI was taking their time and not sure what they were going to do with it.

For discussion purposes, the reason the Parhelia is so good for this kind of situation is that the three screens (or 3x the width in resolution) appears to Windows as a single monitor, whereas NView and other multi-screen options appear to Windows as multiple monitors. This way, a Parhelia is really easy for Windows to deal with (as it appears to be a single screen), and so what happens in games that support widescreen resolutions, is they just stream the info to the vid card as though it's one monitor.

It's pretty cool technologically speaking, and would sure be cool if someone else finds a way to do something like it or better.

joeap
10-21-2005, 01:17 PM
Dex for the record I'd be happy if you got your matrox support back. PM Ivan as he said. I just made a comment awhile back that I didn't think CFS3's one patch could compare with 1C's multiple, not that I am against what the modders have done with it and I am a big fan of MSFS too.

Dexmeister
10-21-2005, 02:12 PM
PM sent crazyivan, lemme know.

IVJG51_Swine
10-21-2005, 05:13 PM
The idea here is to enhance the sim. The matrox card may not be the best now but it is the only one that can handle triple head view which is an enhancement. Dex is just trying to push the issue which is fine. Can you imagine a triple head view with the performance of an ATI or Nvidia card. Wow! The concept here is pretty cool. Please just take a breather and look at the bigger picture. This is all about progression, and remember the matrox card is handling three monitors verses one, thats not bad performance(this is coming from an ATI fan)...It would really be great to see ATI or nvidia doing this.

arcadeace
10-21-2005, 05:15 PM
A few things I think should be clarified Dex. Yours is not a €œminority€ from a typical standpoint, its really just you with the Parhelia we€ve heard from. Its fair to keep your comparisons focused on your own unique preference with respect to the remainder of the forum.

With your initial posts in so many words raising your voice for your rights you can€t expect most people, who€ve also had problems and are satisfied with a very different setup, to have empathy. Like others I was turned off by your attitude. You expected understanding but had none. When we responded with disapproval at an arrogant display you continued posting degrading remarks. Then you said what else should you have expected.

It became clear after a while you weren€t here for any advice because you knew it could only be rectified with Oleg. You wanted sympathy with a demand, and no genuine respect for the possibility you would not be understood.

You can rub others the wrong way, even if you have a point. That€s a very big point in all of this; we€re all human. I know things could€ve been very different.

Personally, I hope you can continue playing it. I hope Oleg makes the time. I understand why you like the setup.

edit: "It would really be great to see ATI or nvidia doing this." No question about it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Treetop64
10-21-2005, 07:42 PM
Originally posted by Dexmeister:
Treetop, I run FS2004 with many sliders cranked, at 3840x1024, with 16X FAA. I have the FPS locked at 25 and it's more than acceptable, even when it drops down below 20. Consider, when you're flying a heavy, the world doesn't go screaming by like it does in a WW2 fighter. I too have boatloads of payware craft, add-on mesh for the entire world as well as loads of add-on planes, textures, etc etc.

Trust me on one thing, even the fastest FPS in the world don't make up for having the left and right monitors turned off.

I went from a top-notch NVidia at the time, over to Matrox and couldn't have been happier.

The funny thing is that I've been having this same debate over the Parhelia for years in these forums. It's very simple for me to go out and buy the best Nvidia or ATI offering and get screaming FPS. If that's what I was after I'd have done it yesterday, but it's not.

I see your point. No beef with you...

At least I can now take comfort in the fact that there's another FS9 fanatic in these forums!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Treetop64
10-21-2005, 08:08 PM
Originally posted by d9720267:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Treetop64:
Anyone can crank all of the bars "all the way to the right" and make stupendous screenshots, but what's your FPS? Curious you're not showing them in your screenshots.

I'm only stating this, not to cheese you off or anything, but to proclaim that it is well worth the effort and financial expenditure to invest in a new G-card with the latest drivers.

You've completely missed the point of Dex's screenshots. You are supposed to be looking at the fact that he's running 3 monitors simultaneously - why are you going on and on about 'sliders all the way to the right' and FPS? I would gladly sacrifice some eye candy if it meant I could run 3 monitors.

Hopefully SLI and Crossfire will mean that in the future more people will have 2 graphics cards in their systems. Then there will be a larger market for supporting multimonitors, AND we'll be able to have all the eye candy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, I think you're right about me missing the point.

Admittedly, ATI's support for running on multiple monitors, though the support is indeed featured, is not neccesarily optimal. There is a significant FPS hit running on two monitors, and the penalty increases with each monitor added.

Fortunately, My one monitor is large enough to suit my preferences (21"), and I can still enjoy maximum detail settings with very high FPS. And that's what this is all about; personal preferences.

I tend to spend more time in the "bug smashers" than the big iron, hence more of the world detail is displayed for longer periods of time. Dex hinted that his flying preferences is in machinery that spends a majority of the time up in the flight levels, so his display performances aren't nearly as taxed. Only on approaches and landings will there be any dips in performance. Consequently, his preferences for enhancement of immersion lie in the addition of a plethora of physical accessories.

Some want more stuff, others want more performance. It's too bad there isn't a card out there yet that optimally supports both.

Dexmeister
10-21-2005, 09:15 PM
I suppose a bit of backpedaling may be called for on my part. The start of this thread was a little more forceful than necessary, maybe a little demanding or insulting.

I originally posted after installing 4.02, which we waited a long 2 weeks for. I was peeved, which doesn't rub anyone the right way. Not rationalizing, but my problem surfaced in 4.01, so do the math, it's been a long time.

After 4.01 I reported the bug as I have in prior cases, then said "oh well, !@#$ happens" and that was where I left it. After 4.02 finally arriving, I was really let down because now there's another two weeks I'm sitting with malfunctioning software, this sim no less.

Sorry to get people's backs up, I can get pretty overbearing when it comes to sims.

If you think the start of this thread is bad, any former CFS3ers will know how much worse I was when CFS3 launched. Anyone from Netwings here can back me up on that... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

-HH-Quazi
10-21-2005, 09:19 PM
Thanks Dex. Says alot about you to call yourself out like that m8. Although many here, I believe, have started to understand where you are cming from alot better now than they did at the beginning of this thread. I think you have a super setup, one I wish I could have to fly flight sims with. And I definately understand your frustration. KUDOS m8!

arcadeace
10-21-2005, 09:23 PM
I remember that, but I think most of us were as pissed as you http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

d9720267
10-21-2005, 09:43 PM
Originally posted by Dexmeister:
try to get to the point of multi-screen simming and maybe then you'll have enough insight to give me advice.

I couldn't agree more.

lairdperkins
10-21-2005, 10:31 PM
Hey Dex,

Keep preaching brother!

I'm running widescreen on the latest Nvidia card, but half the reason I went widescreen LCD instead of just getting a 21" CRT is the desire for wider field of view in Sims.

I had the oportunity to test a mockup of some lens technology that Boeing was fooling around with for commercial simulators. It basically was three 15" LCD panels in a plywood box, with a big wrap around lens in the front.

The lens was fisheyed in just the right way that it magnified the view from the screens and removed the gap between monitors. All three screens were fed off a fast (at the time) Pentium box with a Matrox Parhelia...

It had some problems (view angle etc) but it was the most immersive experience I've ever had with PC gaming. To be able to just look around from left to right and see the entire vista from wingtip to wingtip...

Here's hoping that someone comes up with a faster triplehead (Quadhead with Nvida SLI perhaps?) solution and that someday I can afford a Bugeye monitor.


Edit: After doing a quick google... it looks like Boeing has liscenced the tech: http://www.bugeyetech.com/home.php

Dexmeister
10-22-2005, 11:05 AM
Yeah, Bugeye has come up over in the Matrox forums many times. Pretty cool stuff, eh? Now if Boeing would just buy Matrox and Nvidia and merge Nvidia's performance with Matrox's advancements, we'd all be laughing...

d9720267
10-22-2005, 11:51 PM
Originally posted by Dexmeister:
Yeah, Bugeye has come up over in the Matrox forums many times. Pretty cool stuff, eh? Now if Boeing would just buy Matrox and Nvidia and merge Nvidia's performance with Matrox's advancements, we'd all be laughing...

Amen brother!

Man, we're starting to sound like some wierd cult ...

Tully__
10-23-2005, 06:51 AM
This thread is now a bit shorter than it was. While Dex's problem is a minority one, he has as much right as anyone to express his disappointment provided it's not done in too coarse a manner. There have been far more vitriolic posts around the forums the last few days and this is the only one where the thread starter has been specifically dissed on every page.

If I have to clean it out again, the deleted posters will be going on holiday from the forums.

Dex, good luck with your campaign. I comtemplated the Parhelia myself for a bit but decided I'd go with the FPS advantage myself. As you said, it would be best for all if the BIG TWO would come to the party with multihead support, then it wouldn't be just you a and few silent background co-sufferers, it would be the whole community up in arms.