PDA

View Full Version : Our Mosquito F.B VI



mynameisroland
01-20-2008, 04:01 PM
When it arrived everyone was disapointed with its early model series I performance. But after the months and years of complaining and dismissing it I have started to fly it and boy is it good.

It is faster than the Bf 109 F4,G6,G2 and Fw 190 A4 at low altitude and it can cruise faster while carrying an internal bomb load than any of the above. Even the A5 and A6 are only marginally faster and often can be outrun by a very well trimmed Mosquito. On FR servers it is unstoppable as a 43 Intruder. All the Luftwaffles are in their G2s and Mk 108 armed G6's and i sneak about in my FB VI with a nasty 1 sec delay surprise waiting for them to spawn at their base or come in to land after a hard mission dogfighting Spitfires.

Its great when you attack a Fw 190 from its 6 and he thinks you are a Spitfire and decides to try and run for it - running at 562 km/h at S/L the VI can catch most Fw 190 pilots who dont use PPitch or close their radiators. Bf 109 cant catch you unless they have an altitude advantage, at 90% WEP on and 90% pitch the VI outruns all non alcoholic Bf 109s down low.

Imagine if Oleg had treated us with a Series II or even a 2 stage 2 speed Merlin variant - but then we'd never hear the end of whining from the Blues http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

DrHerb
01-20-2008, 07:23 PM
the main reason why the mossie was continued irl was speed, the machine is as good as the operator comes to mind again, you seem to be one of the few that can operate it correctly http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

BSS_Sniper
01-20-2008, 07:49 PM
Vulching bases isn't really a great example of anything except gaming. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Korolov1986
01-20-2008, 09:12 PM
Originally posted by BSS_Sniper:
Vulching bases isn't really a great example of anything except gaming. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

You say gaming, I say "clever tactical strategy". http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

I_KG100_Prien
01-20-2008, 09:28 PM
Originally posted by BSS_Sniper:
Vulching bases isn't really a great example of anything except gaming. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Same can be said for guys who leave base with 25% fuel...

Can you imagine the level of moaning you'd see in a server if a organized group were to lock down the opposing teams airfields? WHEEEEEEE that would be popcorn worthy.

BGs_Ricky
01-21-2008, 02:35 AM
Originally posted by BSS_Sniper:
Vulching bases isn't really a great example of anything except gaming. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Historically that was what Mossies on Intruder and Ranger missions were doing: attacking unsuspecting enemy aircrafts, often near their bases when they were landing or taking-off. But I don't think that the Luftwaffe complained to the RAF for the "vulching" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

WOLFMondo
01-21-2008, 02:51 AM
I think they did quite allot with flak! Not forgetting the Tempest and anti flak typhoons who dispensed with the whole attacking airfields at night.


Originally posted by BSS_Sniper:
Vulching bases isn't really a great example of anything except gaming. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Time to read up some of the 2nd TAF's history in occupied Europe http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

Kernow
01-21-2008, 07:40 AM
Originally posted by mynameisroland:
...I have started to fly it and boy is it good.

It is faster than the Bf 109 F4,G6,G2 and Fw 190 A4 at low altitude and it can cruise faster while carrying an internal bomb load than any of the above...
And cruising at max sustainable speed (ie, no overheat) on the deck with a 2000 lb bombload the FB.VI is faster than the Mustang III, which seems to really suffer when you hang bombs on it. Even the Tempest is only 10 kph faster than the FB.VI under those conditions. For sustaining high speed with bombs on the FB.VI is one of the best choices there is, along with the P-38.

Of course, you'll suffer whatever you fly online if the enemy are told where your target is, as nearly all DFs & co-ops do. That's the main reason for the Mossie's online reputation, IMO. It requires neither luck nor skill to hang around over a target until a Mossie turns up, but it requires a fair bit of luck and a careful lookout to spot a low flying Mossie that could be anywhere on a decent sized map.

waffen-79
01-21-2008, 08:28 AM
Originally posted by mynameisroland:
Imagine if Oleg had treated us with a Series II or even a 2 stage 2 speed Merlin variant - but then we'd never hear the end of whining from the Blues http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

bring it on! 200 pts are better than 100 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

ElAurens
01-21-2008, 10:52 AM
I want to like the Mossie, but it is a fragile easy target IMHO. In may ways in the same vein as the P38 we have in game.

mynameisroland
01-21-2008, 03:18 PM
Vulching lol

Attacking aircraft at their base with bombs isnt vulching, its fair play. What do you want me to do ? dogfight Bf 109s in my Mosquito or use my speed and firepower and play to my strengths.

Its kind of like calling a Bf 109 pilot a cheat for not turn fighting with an I-16.

Played on a F6 server yesterday (UKD2) and bombed targets with2 x 500lb, bombed a Ju 88 taking off, extended and then returned to base and shot down a Bf 109 F4 and heavily damaged a Fw 190 A4 before retreating on the deck being chased in vain by 3 Luftwaffe fighters.

VW-IceFire
01-21-2008, 03:40 PM
Originally posted by mynameisroland:
...bombed a Ju 88 taking off...
Yeah thanks for that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Xiolablu3
01-21-2008, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mynameisroland:
...bombed a Ju 88 taking off...
Yeah thanks for that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Was that on Fireloks 'Dalmatia'?


I love that map sooo much, so atmospheric.

Great fights between the Spitfire V's and Bf109F4's, and the Mossie vs Me110+Ju88 bombing mission vs Ships and the Castle is just the icing on the cake.

Must come for a game with you guys soon.

Ratsack
01-21-2008, 04:10 PM
Originally posted by BSS_Sniper:
Vulching bases isn't really a great example of anything except gaming. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The term 'vulching' is a gaming term.

During WWII, the name for this kind of mission was 'intruder'.

cheers,
Ratsack

MB_Avro_UK
01-21-2008, 04:43 PM
Hi all,

I remember when the Mosquito was about to be released that many thought it would be the ultimate.

But as Roland has posted, you have to fly it to it's strengths.

As with most RAF aircraft, we have 1943 versions.

The later models of the Mosquito were superb in the correct mission environment.

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

VW-IceFire
01-21-2008, 05:05 PM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mynameisroland:
...bombed a Ju 88 taking off...
Yeah thanks for that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Was that on Fireloks 'Dalmatia'?


I love that map sooo much, so atmospheric.

Great fights between the Spitfire V's and Bf109F4's, and the Mossie vs Me110+Ju88 bombing mission vs Ships and the Castle is just the icing on the cake.

Must come for a game with you guys soon. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Actually that was on the Dieppe scenario. I had just turned and was rolling for takeoff when my gunner started firing, the AAA was going off, I saw Boehmer skim just meters above...then BOOM! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

It wasn't quite as crushing as the time we took Tempests with 1000lb bombs on Ruhr and vulched the Blue base but he got me good and then ambushed some 109s and 190s that were wallowing about near the base.

Yes you do need to get on the server sometime!

ImpStarDuece
01-21-2008, 05:16 PM
Glad someone has realised the same thing that I have been saying since we got the Mossie in the game.

In a 1942 to mid-1943 scenario, its almost untouchable as a fast bomber, if flown intelligently. It is faster than a Spit Mk IX on the deck, with a 1000 lbs internal bombload, and cruises much faster.

One of my best ever online sorties was with a Mossie. Killed a FW 190 and a Bf 109 who were RTBing on the dive in to the target, got a 110 and a Flak gun on the ground with bombs and cannon, fled for home and found a furball over my own base and assisted with home defence, putting holes in another three 109s and a 190 before running out of ammo an heading for an alternate landing strip.

Viper2005_
01-21-2008, 07:04 PM
So sad we didn't get a Merlin 25 engined version with +18 performance.

Or the almost identical B.IV with bombsight and cookie...

mynameisroland
01-22-2008, 03:22 AM
On UKD3 last week Ive been harassing Blue bombers on both their outward and inward journey to targets. I was particularly lucky to spot two Ju88's in formation at 1000m rtb'ing from a mission nearing their base. I attacked, scored hits on the lead, their return fire was damaging but I persisted, the wingman broke formation and dove to do an emergency landing on the runway so I dove after him and bombed just 50m ahead of his Ju88 so he touched down on top of 2 x 500 lb with a 1 sec delay.

Feathers were ruffled.

I rtb'd low on the deck with a fuel leak and Port engine damage which later stopped. I feathered the prop and carried on at 250 mph on the clock and made it down nice and safely http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Aaron_GT
01-22-2008, 07:16 AM
Vulching bases isn't really a great example of anything except gaming.

It is historically accurate though (in an NF.II with radar removed, at night, and the FB.VI we have is pretty close to this). Slap some No. 23 RAF codes on the side, and you are good to go.

Aaron_GT
01-22-2008, 07:20 AM
So sad we didn't get a Merlin 25 engined version with +18 performance.

Or the almost identical B.IV with bombsight and cookie...

Really we want versions all the way to +25, bomber verions to XVI (408 mph at altitude, fully loaded), and if there ever becomes a way to sensibly work in radar, some radar-equipped NF versions!

And drop tanks and rockets for good measure.

And ideally a rearward facing navigator view.

But I could do without the change they made to the intercom/bomb release positioning which lead to some unfortunate deaths on some low level missions.

Aaron_GT
01-22-2008, 07:22 AM
I feathered the prop and carried on at 250 mph on the clock and made it down nice and safely

There's the story of the B26 crew that challenged a Mosquito B.IV crew to a race. The RAF said they'd give the B26 crew a head start. And then passed them a little while later. Flying upside down. On one engine.

thefruitbat
01-22-2008, 12:50 PM
Originally posted by Aaron_GT:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I feathered the prop and carried on at 250 mph on the clock and made it down nice and safely

There's the story of the B26 crew that challenged a Mosquito B.IV crew to a race. The RAF said they'd give the B26 crew a head start. And then passed them a little while later. Flying upside down. On one engine. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i so want this to be true http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

fruitbat

Aaron_GT
01-23-2008, 03:29 AM
It could be true - the B.IV was faster than the B26 (about a 60 mph margin at 5000 feet) to be able to catch up and you could simply ensure sufficient momentum had been built up about 20 seconds before passing the B26, ensure you are diving very slightly and then feather and flip, and then reverse the procedure once the B26 had seen you. Under a minute on one engine I'd imagine.

mynameisroland
01-23-2008, 03:57 AM
There are also reports of Mosquito's formating on B25s/B17s,Lancasters ect on one engine with the other feathered then accelerating away still only on the one engine.

If I had to be in any twin during WW2 Id choose the Mosquito. Even over the P38, Me 262 ect The Mosquito in real operational conditions - not IL2 - had everything you could hope for in a bomber/nightfighter. Reliability, performance, range, firepower and development potential.

Safest combat mount by far.

Kernow
01-23-2008, 04:59 AM
Anyone else find the Mossie's guns a little less devastating than expected?

Intercepted a few bombers now (and been in bombers intercepted by Mossies), but I'm getting the impression that the Tempest (or any Anton, come to that) kills bombers quicker. A Tempest will often knock down a Ju-88 on the first pass, yet it seems the Mossie must pour a long, long stream of fire into one to get a result. Yet the nose guns are always hitting 'at convergence,' not to mention the additional 4 mgs over the Tempest (they might not add much, but they certainly aren't reducing the damage done).

OTOH the nose battery can be trully devastating against ground convoys. Fly on the deck, straight down the road at the target and send a stream of cannon shells right down the length of the convoy, which you can't do nearly so destructively in ac with wing guns. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

stathem
01-23-2008, 07:14 AM
Originally posted by Kernow:
Anyone else find the Mossie's guns a little less devastating than expected?

Intercepted a few bombers now (and been in bombers intercepted by Mossies), but I'm getting the impression that the Tempest (or any Anton, come to that) kills bombers quicker. A Tempest will often knock down a Ju-88 on the first pass, yet it seems the Mossie must pour a long, long stream of fire into one to get a result. Yet the nose guns are always hitting 'at convergence,' not to mention the additional 4 mgs over the Tempest (they might not add much, but they certainly aren't reducing the damage done).

OTOH the nose battery can be trully devastating against ground convoys. Fly on the deck, straight down the road at the target and send a stream of cannon shells right down the length of the convoy, which you can't do nearly so destructively in ac with wing guns. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

...had a wtf? moment the other day in that regard. Not that it matters, since we know that these things happen, but...

I was ship killing (in a Mossie) on a WC 43 map the other day. Coming off the target, I spotted a twin running north(towards the 'blue' side of the map). Closed fairly quickly and started shooting at 500m out, continuing in to 50m or so, at which point I broke off with a dead nav and one engine on fire (from the return fire)

Fired the exstingishers and put it out, and since it was the first time I'd fired the guns that session, checked the gunstats.

12% hit rate: > 120 hits on a He-111.

Now I know the brownings fire a bit faster than the hispanos but....wtf?

stathem
01-23-2008, 07:30 AM
Oh, forgot the crucial bit;

the Heinkel didn't go down. Nor did I get a kill msg later on the way home; I got back to base on 1.5 engines, where an 'intruding' FW tried to take some lumps out of me. Whilst evading that and waiting for the CAP to chase it away I ran out of fuel and had to pancake; cracked it up and had to refly before it caught fire.

Still no kill msg from the He.

Kernow
01-23-2008, 10:13 AM
Originally posted by stathem:
...Closed fairly quickly and started shooting at 500m out, continuing in to 50m or so, at which point I broke off with a dead nav and one engine on fire (from the return fire)...
Yea, that about sums up my anti-bomber experiences in the Mossie. The return fire is rarely a killer, but it almost invariably takes an engine and maybe another component, normally sooner rather than later. The 1-3 light/heavy mgs on the bomber tend to leave me in much the same state as my 4 cannon and 4 lmgs leave him, or so it appears, but TBH I do eventually kill some bombers, while the Mossie nearly always survives, but has to rtb.

Once, in an He-111, I thought I was dead for sure when I saw a Mossie closing fast. I dared not rely on my gunners alone and wanted to avoid his guns at all costs (this was an early bomber v Mossie encounter and I probably overrated the threat from the guns). I found tight turns could be pretty effective in avoiding the Mossie, although I needed to jump around the crew positions to keep him in sight for effective timing of the breaks. My gunners soon smoked one of his engines and then I found I could spiral climb away from him (don't know if that would work against a 100% 'fit' Mossie). I had taken some hits but was still very much flyable. The Mossie's nose battery doesn't seem as effective as experience in all sorts of other ac in the game leads me to expect.

mynameisroland
01-23-2008, 10:31 AM
Im not being a smart a1rse but aim for the wings. Only way to down bombers in game with less than 100 hits is to do this. Although often I chew off He 111s elevators and get kills that way.

Kernow
01-23-2008, 12:55 PM
Originally posted by mynameisroland:
Im not being a smart a1rse but aim for the wings. Only way to down bombers in game with less than 100 hits is to do this. Although often I chew off He 111s elevators and get kills that way.
Fair point, and all the quick kills of 88s by Tempests that I recall involved wings coming off under the impact of several cannon shells. Still not sure the Mossie does it as easily as the Tempest, despite the theoretical advantage of not having convergance issues. Maybe I'll have to try harder at going for the wings when in the Mossie.

thefruitbat
01-23-2008, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by Kernow:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mynameisroland:
Im not being a smart a1rse but aim for the wings. Only way to down bombers in game with less than 100 hits is to do this. Although often I chew off He 111s elevators and get kills that way.
Fair point, and all the quick kills of 88s by Tempests that I recall involved wings coming off under the impact of several cannon shells. Still not sure the Mossie does it as easily as the Tempest, despite the theoretical advantage of not having convergance issues. Maybe I'll have to try harder at going for the wings when in the Mossie. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think that some of this is just simply that people dont shoot at just the convergance range.

By this i mean that no one in their right mind parks at convergance range behind a bomber. You make closing attacks, so you are only at convergance for a split second, but your burst begins before, and finishes afterwards.

Now because the tempest's guns are wing mounted, i think you stand more chance of hitting when you are in those times 'out' of convergance, because you have in effect two streams.

And as bombers are bigger targets, i think the illusion of the 20's on the tempest being stronger than the mosquito is more to do with extra hits outside of convergance.

Of course, this is all just my opinion, but to add to this theme, along time ago when i first started playing il2, i prefered planes with wing mounted guns, and couldn't stand engine mounted. Now i would be happy with 1 mg151 or any other 20mm in the nose till the end of the war(at least v fighters, oooh a mustang mk3 with mg151).

I am sure this was because, before i learnt to shoot it seemed easier to hit with the 2 banks, its almost like and 'area effect' weapon just either side of convergance, but as you learn to shoot, the pinpoint precision that can be obtained with say the 151 is more desired.

just my thoughts http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

cheers fruitbat

OD_
01-24-2008, 03:51 AM
One thing I would say is that the Beaufighter really wipes the floor with bombers and that has a similar weapons fit, though I am not sure if the one in game has 4 0.5s rather than 6 .303s, which would help. But it still has the 4x20mm Hispano in the nose...if I'm going up against bombers I take the Beaufighter!

thefruitbat
01-24-2008, 06:38 AM
Originally posted by OD_:
One thing I would say is that the Beaufighter really wipes the floor with bombers and that has a similar weapons fit, though I am not sure if the one in game has 4 0.5s rather than 6 .303s, which would help. But it still has the 4x20mm Hispano in the nose...if I'm going up against bombers I take the Beaufighter!

You are correct, the beaufighter has 4 50's in the wings as well as the 4 MkII hispano's, as oppossed to 4 303's in the mossie.

One thing i just remembered, didnt the tempest have the faster firing Mk V hispano cannons?

cheers fruitbat

Kernow
01-24-2008, 07:17 AM
Yes the Tempest does have the Mk.V: 12.5 rps against the Mk.II 10 rps, so maybe the extra 25% rof explains it. But, as mentioned, the Beaufighter does seem to be as destructive as you'd expect and that surely isn't just due to heavier mgs? I'll play around some more and see if maybe I am imagining it.

OD_
01-24-2008, 10:12 AM
I'll be honest in my use of the Beaufighter I've knocked out bombers eaily without using the Machine guns. They seemed to have little effect so I just used them when I ran out of cannon! lol.

thefruitbat
01-24-2008, 10:32 AM
In between the joy of working from home, doing my tax return, i took up a tempest, mossie and a beaufighter all against a he111 flying opposite direction 1000m below, just using cannons.

In each case i flew the same approach, and took down the bomber in one pass. I didnt notice any diff between the mossie and the beaufighter. However, in the tempest, i cut it in half!!

I think you really do notice the extra rate of fire in the MkV hispanos, try for yourself.

cheers fruitbat

Kernow
01-24-2008, 01:14 PM
Yep, just tried Mossie & Beau against Ju-88s & revised my opinion that Mossie's guns aren't 'all that.' Targetting the wing either rips off the outboard section or ignites an engine. The extra effectiveness of the Tempest must be due to the greater rof, which is more than just a minor improvement over the Mk.II Hispano after all.

thefruitbat
01-24-2008, 04:01 PM
Originally posted by Kernow:
Yep, just tried Mossie & Beau against Ju-88s & revised my opinion that Mossie's guns aren't 'all that.' Targetting the wing either rips off the outboard section or ignites an engine. The extra effectiveness of the Tempest must be due to the greater rof, which is more than just a minor improvement over the Mk.II Hispano after all.

Agree 100%, and am somewhat suprised, as i'd never even thought about the diff between the two mk's before, considering it unimportant.

fruitbat