PDA

View Full Version : Force feedback



bburns1959
04-25-2006, 11:38 AM

knightflyte
04-25-2006, 12:32 PM
I put 'yes somewhat.'

It adds immersion more than reality....and that in itself gives the feeling of reality or suspension of belief.

It's symantics I know.

xf86config
04-25-2006, 12:49 PM
I had a ms ffb2 when i got original il2, simply cant fly withought it now, ( ok so i cant fly well with it but thats another matter ). Flying withough ffb would deny any "seat of the pants" experience. Whether this is "realistic" or not i will leave to others to argue over, I learned with it, I need it. Game would not be so enjoyable or adictive withought it ( for me ).

xf

Dean3238
04-25-2006, 12:52 PM
OK... I would say force feedback would be pretty cool, now...

I have a Thrustmaster stick and IL2 out through 4.04m (looking forward to buying Pe-2). Is there a force feedback I can turn on or use?

Didn't seem to be an option I had long the way or am I missunderstanding something?

Dean

IL2-chuter
04-25-2006, 07:44 PM
Absolutely with the qualification that all the dumbxxx non-flight effects are removed. I just use spring.ffe and shake.ffe.


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

WTE_Galway
04-26-2006, 12:12 AM
realism or not ... its a lot easier to avoid stalling when the stick shakes everytime you get close

the MSFFB2 rocks in IL2 .. shame you can get them anymnore

leitmotiv
04-27-2006, 05:37 AM
Yes, absolutely necessary for the pre-stall judder, the kick of powerful guns, and impact shock from hits. Using flight sims without the first is laughable (red letters: "STALL" and suddenly you are out of control, ugh).

Pig_Mac
04-27-2006, 07:36 AM
Originally posted by IL2-chuter:
Absolutely with the qualification that all the dumbxxx non-flight effects are removed. I just use spring.ffe and shake.ffe.


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Amen to that! About avoiding stall and 'feeling where you have the plane', After trading my MSFFB2 for a crappy PSU when I really needed it and mate needed a good joystick, it's almost as obvious when you are close without one.

The extra shakes and feels in FFB also produce a lot of noice and general mess.. It took quite some time before I learned how to use my Cougar without stalling and behaving like a fool. but after learning exactly when what happens, without getting the direct input from a jumping stick, almost made me more aware of how I were flying.

I still voted 'yes, definately', since there is a lot more adaptation needed to feel the same without ..'real' feeling.

leitmotiv
04-27-2006, 10:10 AM
I have four controllers, three force-feedback sticks which create effects in varying levels of intensity with the Logitech Wingman Force 3D being the most pronounced. The new Logitech Force 3D Pro hardly produces any any effects at all, and is a marvelously smooth stick. The Saitek Cyborg Evo doesn't kick like the Wingman Force 3D, and, because of the length of the shaft is probably the closest thing to real stick available. I also have a non-FF yoke. If you want to shoot nearly perfectly, forget FF, but if you enjoy the variabilities of the flight environment, especially getting a real buffeting from storm turbulence, you will want a stick which will act like a fresh-caught trout

nearmiss
04-27-2006, 01:55 PM
Forcefeedback is not a good stick for playing if you are trying to shoot and get hits.

I personally prefer it for something like MSFT Flight Simulator, where you get some sensation of realism.

You do Hyperlobby with FF and you're gonna get your bisquits burned. You need a stick that will hold on target and continue to hold while you are shooting. The FF jumps off the target and all around it while you're firing.

A non FF stick is the best go when you want to do well targeting and getting hits.

PriK
04-27-2006, 04:17 PM
Originally posted by nearmiss:
Forcefeedback is not a good stick for playing if you are trying to shoot and get hits.

I personally prefer it for something like MSFT Flight Simulator, where you get some sensation of realism.

You do Hyperlobby with FF and you're gonna get your bisquits burned. You need a stick that will hold on target and continue to hold while you are shooting. The FF jumps off the target and all around it while you're firing.

A non FF stick is the best go when you want to do well targeting and getting hits.

No.

I've got FFB cranked and leave it on for shooting without any problems, although I haven't managed to fire up PF for about a month now. Never gave me any problems on HL over the years I've been playing.

Then again I've never been into pointwhor ing so much as immersion and fun. Controlling the gun shake is half the fun (you can always tone it down a bit anyway) otherwise I'd just use a script to fly the plane for me. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

IL2-chuter
04-27-2006, 09:08 PM
Originally posted by nearmiss:
Forcefeedback is not a good stick for playing if you are trying to shoot and get hits.

I personally prefer it for something like MSFT Flight Simulator, where you get some sensation of realism.

You do Hyperlobby with FF and you're gonna get your bisquits burned. You need a stick that will hold on target and continue to hold while you are shooting. The FF jumps off the target and all around it while you're firing.

A non FF stick is the best go when you want to do well targeting and getting hits.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif


Read my previous post about only using spring and shake effects and your issues are addressed. To think that the control stick in an airplane would jump around when the guns are fired is really very arcady and shouldn't be tolerated. All you want are flight loads fed back through the stick.


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

RayBanJockey
04-27-2006, 10:16 PM
Of course it adds realism. Like when you are flying faster it's tighterand when you are flying slower its looser. As for the shakes well if you are the type of pilot who is in tune with everything you will modify every aspect of the FFB files so that the shakes are at most a tiny vibration or nothing at all.

It really is a no-brainer, just a darn shame that Microsoft stopped making them (and nobody else has stepped up to the plate) You can still get a brand new one on Ebay for about $200.

tagTaken2
04-27-2006, 11:02 PM
Goodness, yes.

MSFFB2 is the sh|t.

I like a slight shudder from guns, but does anyone know how to edit the forces? Still get a sharp kick from Il-2 with mg, throws off target.

RayBanJockey
04-28-2006, 11:57 PM
Originally posted by tagTaken2:
Goodness, yes.

MSFFB2 is the sh|t.

I like a slight shudder from guns, but does anyone know how to edit the forces? Still get a sharp kick from Il-2 with mg, throws off target.

You need to find and download the microsaft tool called "fedit" Not sure where it is nowadays but do a search for fedit "fedit force feedback" etc.

Here is it's intro:

About Force Editor
Force Editor is a tool for designing and testing force-feedback effects in Microsoftâ® DirectInputâ®.

To use the application, you need to have at least one force-feedback device attached to the system. You can select from multiple devices by choosing Select Device from the File menu or by clicking the joystick icon on the toolbar.

The program requires the Microsoft Foundation Classes 4.2 library. This might not be available on a Microsoftâ® Windowsâ® 95 system if you have not installed Microsoftâ® Visual C++â® or another application that installs the necessary dynamic-link libraries (DLLs).

Effects can be designed singly or in groups, and can be tested in combination, with different start and stop times for each effect.

Effect parameters are saved in resource interchange file format (RIFF). Effect files can be opened in Force Editor for further development and can be used by applications, so there is no need to copy effect parameters into code or to update code as effects are redesigned.

Built on Tuesday, August 03, 1999

Also here is kind of how you use it to change one of your FFB files in IL2: (an old trick I used to use ... don't follow this literally but it will give you an idea of what you need to do to mod one of your FFB files)

modifying "spring" ffb file.
Open the Fedit program.
Close the default Fedit1 window.
Click "File" -> Open -> find the location of your spring ffb file,
highlight it and open.
Remember that there is an error when you open this file. Some of the
values will not be the same as the values that were last saved.
So if you open this, you will have to redo the offsets for both axes
(0 and 1) and redo the Saturation for Spring Axis 1.
Put the cursor over the white bar that runs right to left in the spring ffb
window. Right click and select Properties.
The Spring Axis 0 (X axis) tab should be showing.
Check "Use same coefficient for both negative and positive".

Axis properties
Coefficient slider (pyramid effect)
The Saturation slider (return to center power)
Offset (center point location)
Deadband (dead zone width)

Now click the "Spring Axis 1" tab (Y axis).
Check "Use same coefficient for both negative and positive".
Verify the Coefficient slider.
Set the Saturation slider.
Verify that the Deadband is zero.
Set your offset here to -2000.
-Moves the centering forces of the Y axis a fifth of the way forward. Close the effect properties box.
Click File and Save your new spring ffb file.

tagTaken2
04-30-2006, 09:38 PM
Thanks a lot, with the current sh|tstorm over Pe-2, it's nice reminder that it's worth looking in here.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Tool is here, if anyone else is thinking about it:
http://www.cs.vu.nl/%7Eeliens/hush/wt/sdk/tools/FEdit/