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View Full Version : DF-"community" in trouble?



weasel75
11-14-2004, 08:23 AM
Hello!

I do not want to discuss PF, but its influence on the dogfighting community (COOP is not affected that much). Here some observations, please correct me if I am wrong:

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI>PF splits community. 4 possible groups: FB, FB+AEP, FB+AEP+PF, PF-standalone.
While I have not found FB- and PF-only installations (did not try that hard), at least 2 groups are forming: FB+AEP and FB+AEP+PF.

<LI> HyperLobby can not deal (i.e. filter) with different versions of the server, and server-admins forget to set a clear name http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
So one either tries to find a suitable server over and over again (failing at the game-internal connect), or one just uses a different solution: UBI, ASE, KALI II, etc.
This leads to a even more reduced value of HL, since HL can not "see" this external connections to a server. One example: "War_Clouds_PF". This nicely scripted server is crowded all the time. HL often shows 27 out of 32 players, while ASE shows the true picture: 32 out of 32. So using HL one would start the game and find himself failing to connect......

<LI> The european community seems to stick with FB+AEP. At least so it seems to me, since ASE shows the majority of PF-DF-servers are located in the US or Japan.
That is sad, cause even when the european crowd wants to stick with european plane-set, the new bombers in PF can be used for western europe-scenario nevertheless!
(There is really no need to install PF on top on FB+AEP and just fly PTO afterwards!)

<LI> FBDaemon is not used on many PF-servers. But I personally think that scripted servers are the way to go (as a replacement for missing game-modes). Just like with Half-Life and UT2004, where TeamDeathMatch is a quick fun for a while, the really immersive fights started with modified gameplay (starting with CS on HL, leading to gems like RedOrchestra on UT2004).
[/list]

To summarize: this things happen, one can just observe. I dont know how "I" as a single pilot could change the current development http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
(Flying (or trying to find a flight) in HL is not the same anymore, it is changing ... in a bad way)

Maybe the update to HL would help?
Till then - server-admins: please set clear names for the servers (PF or 3.0 in title would help big time). And lets hope that FBD officially supports PF soon. And pray for a dedicated server too!
If someone has more ideas how to solve the mentioned "problems", please write here.

S! - W75

BTW: a even more personal note:
"Full-real"-servers are rare to find. Some are semi-FR, with mapicon or even plane-icons, but many many have external and no-cockpit. Maybe it correlates with the new location of most of the servers?

Chuck_Older
11-14-2004, 08:27 AM
The Community splits the community. PF gives you options that you wouldn't otherwise have.

The players/hosts who don't communicate what they're doing is the problem, not PF. Communication between the people who play online mig be a big issue and maybe an upgrade to servers or HL that recognises what version of FB you're running might be a good idea, but it's not PF's fault that communication is lacking between hosts and servers

Fresshness
11-14-2004, 08:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
The Community splits the community. PF gives you options that you wouldn't otherwise have.

The players/hosts who don't communicate what they're doing is the problem, not PF. Communication between the people who play online mig be a big issue and maybe an upgrade to servers or HL that recognises what version of FB you're running might be a good idea, but it's not PF's fault that communication is lacking between hosts and servers <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

lol

Osirisx9
11-14-2004, 08:35 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by weasel75:
Hello!

I do not want to discuss PF, but its influence on the dogfighting community (COOP is not affected that much). Here some observations, please correct me if I am wrong:


+ PF splits community. 4 possible groups: FB, FB+AEP, FB+AEP+PF, PF-standalone.
While I have not found FB- and PF-only installations (did not try that hard), at least 2 groups are forming: FB+AEP and FB+AEP+PF.

+ HyperLobby can not deal (i.e. filter) with different versions of the server, and server-admins forget to set a clear name http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
So one either tries to find a suitable server over and over again (failing at the game-internal connect), or one just uses a different solution: UBI, ASE, KALI II, etc.
This leads to a even more reduced value of HL, since HL can not "see" this external connections to a server. One example: "War_Clouds_PF". This nicely scripted server is crowded all the time. HL often shows 27 out of 32 players, while ASE shows the true picture: 32 out of 32. So using HL one would start the game and find himself failing to connect......

+ The european community seems to stick with FB+AEP. At least so it seems to me, since ASE shows the majority of PF-DF-servers are located in the US or Japan.
That is sad, cause even when the european crowd wants to stick with european plane-set, the new bombers in PF can be used for western europe-scenario nevertheless!
(There is really no need to install PF on top on FB+AEP and just fly PTO afterwards!)

+ FBDaemon is not used on many PF-servers. But I personally think that scripted servers are the way to go (as a replacement for missing game-modes). Just like with Half-Life and UT2004, where TeamDeathMatch is a quick fun for a while, the really immersive fights started with modified gameplay (starting with CS on HL, leading to gems like RedOrchestra on UT2004).


To summarize: this things happen, one can just observe. I dont know how "I" as a single pilot could change the current development http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
_(Flying (or trying to find a flight) in HL is not the same anymore, it is changing ... in a bad way)_

Maybe the update to HL would help?
Till then - server-admins: please set clear names for the servers (PF or 3.0 in title would help big time). And lets hope that FBD officially supports PF soon. And pray for a dedicated server too!
If someone has more ideas how to solve the mentioned "problems", please write here.

S! - W75

BTW: a even more personal note:
"Full-real"-servers are rare to find. Some are semi-FR, with mapicon or even plane-icons, but many many have external and no-cockpit. Maybe it correlates with the new location of most of the servers? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe you should try flying somewhere esle besides HL. There are tons of servers in the ASE to start.

RAF238thOsirisd

weasel75
11-14-2004, 08:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
The players/hosts who don't communicate what they're doing is the problem, not PF. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fast answer http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

But, as I wrote (first sentence): I did not want to discuss PF itself. Nor did I want to blame it. But with PF that things started to happen.

Of course its about the community, about the tools we use.
And at the moment I "feel" like observing something going not as it could (or into the wrong direction), but being unable to change it.

Naa.. nevermind, maybe its just me, feeling "blue" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Tully__
11-14-2004, 09:02 AM
Many of those staying with FB/AEP only are doing so because the PF/Combined dedicated servers aren't yet released. I think you'll see more uniformity once those are here. Likewise, FBDaemon will be more widely used once the ded servers are available.

Chuck_Older
11-14-2004, 10:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by weasel75:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
The players/hosts who don't communicate what they're doing is the problem, not PF. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fast answer http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

But, as I wrote (first sentence): I did not want to discuss PF itself. Nor did I want to blame it. But with PF that things started to happen.

Of course its about the community, about the tools we use.
And at the moment I "feel" like observing something going not as it could (or into the wrong direction), but being unable to change it.

Naa.. nevermind, maybe its just me, feeling "blue" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

you also said this:

" HyperLobby can not deal (i.e. filter) with different versions of the server, and server-admins forget to set a clear name"

Which is what prompted my post. Folks forgetting to name something is not PF's fault http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

VFS-22_SPaRX
11-14-2004, 12:02 PM
I would like to respond to this for one main reason. I see a lot of the community coming down pretty hard here lately on Serve admins and giving the impressions that we are inadequately managing our servers.

First off, none of you realize the time involved in keeping a server online. I am not talking about a server that you throw up when you are online for 8-10 of your buddies, I am talking about a full fledged 24/7 dedicated server. I personally put no less then 1-2 hours a day into maintaining my servers. There is alot more then just clicking the start button. So let me give you a typical day for me. I put in my 8 hours of work ( in construction ), come home to my daughter and try and spend sometime time with her. Then i squeeze in some dinner. Then i try and get some quailty time with my wife. Next i get online and look through the COUNTLESS emails, private msgs, and forum posts pretaining to the server. Then I try and respond to as many of them as I can. Then I get into the TS server and again start fielding questions and concerns about the server. Then I go into the server via the game and again, start fielding questions and concerns about the servers. After all this is done, I have to decide, do I fly tonight for an hour or so, or do i work on some missions for the server, check on the various things on teh actual server itself that need to be maintained. Before i know it, i need to be headin to bed because its 11pm. And i didnt get one single sortie in.

So you might be thinking right now... boo hoo. Well, i am thinking, the same thing. Sorry you have to root through a few servers to find one that fits your wants and desires. Sorry its not as simple for you to sit down and make a single click and you are in flying and having a good time. I know i am sounding a little rash here, but honestly i am getting to that point. So many "players" in this commumity are quick to point the fingers at the "admins" and critique their servers. But do you see many "players" say, Is there something i can do to help out. What do you need? Can I do something to help take some of the server work load off you.

So now you might be thinking, "why don't you ask for some help". Well we have. I have asked for someone to maintain our website. I have asked for people to help make missions for the servers. But the straight out fact of the matter is, no one wants to put the time in. Sure i have had a few people submit maps, but they are never to the specs i request. Or you get alot of empty promises.

I guess what i am saying in a nutshell is this. Instead of making these observations and taking the time to write up a nice detailed post, contact the server admin of your favorite server and see what you can do to help. And if you decided to help out, dont do it half-a$$ed, because we dont half-a$$ our servers. Take an active role!

Sorry if i offended anyone, but you know how forums are, you can read into these words just about anything you want.

S~

SPaRX
www.war-clouds.net (http://www.war-clouds.net)
server admin/owner

weasel75
11-14-2004, 02:12 PM
Hope I did not offend you!

I very much enjoy and appreciate the efforts done by everyone contributing to the sim. And I very much like the War_Clouds-server http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Still, the splits (PF vs FB, HL vs UBI vs ASE, full-real vs. fun) hurt to see. This community has not the numbers like ArmyOps or CS, where a split surely would not hurt.

Thank you - W75

PS: Have you asked in the mission-builder-forum? I am sure some ppl there would really like to design missions http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

FoolTrottel
11-14-2004, 03:45 PM
VFS-22_SPaRX
Heads up.
Keep up the good work.
'We' really do appreciate all you do to get and keep servers up and running.

One suggestion I have for you: Change the "Then i try and get some quailty time with my wife." into "Then I get some qualilty time with my wife." ;-)

What I mean is: hobbies are great fun, specifically the one we're after..... but it's not the main thing!

Me, I'm just a simple pil2ot, have been playing offline a lot, and online only since a few weeks. However, my job is in computers/support of computer use... Is there a way I can help?
I haven't got a lot of experience creating missions (I know what is takes, a lot of work/time/patience....) I have been using html/asp to do some 'webbing'.
What I want to say is: I doubt if I can be of any assistance, but, what do you think? Could I?

weasel75
11-14-2004, 04:24 PM
Why not have some public "contest" over at the mission-builder-forum?
Whoever feels up to the task can design mission(s) and later they run in a cycle on the Warclouds-server.

I know, its still lot of fine-tuning to rewrite all missions to have them load each other in correct order. But maybe thats something that can be solved over at the MB-forum http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Like consecutive filenames ("wcp_publicmaps01.mis").
Let any missions-builder who has completed a mission take one number (increasing counter can be made public by the authors itself in the thread), and then 1-2 weeks later all missions are collected together and put up for test-cycle http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

So if you have the parameters or some ideas, post them at the MB-forum http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

crazyivan1970
11-14-2004, 04:29 PM
Not sure what you talking about weasel, absolute majority got PF+AEP combo and that`s 95% games at HL with exception of few dedicated servers.

weasel75
11-14-2004, 05:26 PM
ASE keeps telling me something like this:
38 AEP servers
11 PF servers

Athosd
11-14-2004, 05:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by weasel75:
ASE keeps telling me something like this:
38 AEP servers
11 PF servers <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As Tully stated above, that situation will change once the PF and AEP+PF dedicated servers are available.

Salute Sparx - I don't fly online very often these days but when I do your server is the premium choice.
In your shoes I'd probably be somewhat less public spirited and only take notice of communications from those who have ponied up with some support. I hope the dedicated server software will reduce the admin load on you.

Cheers

Athos

VW-IceFire
11-14-2004, 07:10 PM
It was like this when AEP came out...it'll take about a month and a half to sort out entirely and there will be no troubles at the end http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

killer2359
11-14-2004, 07:49 PM
"And at the moment I "feel" like observing something going not as it could (or into the wrong direction), but being unable to change it."

That's how I felt when VHS won out over BetaCam and when CD's came out without being locked in protective casing (like 3.44 floppies).

-yes off topic I know (sorry) but next time you try to play a scratched CD/DVD or try to suffer crappy picture quality of favorite movie on VHS you'll remember what I said.