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View Full Version : How come bf109 is only plane that cannot use 100% prop pitch?



PFflyer
01-22-2007, 11:12 AM
Yak, Spit, Mustang, Fw190, you can all do anything in these planes at 100% prop pitch, but in the bf109 at 100% prop pitch the engine blows up and is ruined.

YOu can dive any other aircraft at 900km/hr(minus wings maybe) at 100% pitch and the engine is fine and dandy.

This is really a glaring inconsistancy and fault, and I would really like to hear an explanation from someone on the development team about this, that is just not BS.

I am sure prop technology among the various kinds of fighter airraft in WWII was fairly consistant as long as they were variable pitch, and engine technology was identical, except maybe in the case of the sleeve-valve enginge used in some British aircraft.

All engines were four-stroke internal combustion, large displacement, with poppet valves operated either by pushrods or overhead camshaft.

There is no reason for the behavior of the bf109 engine to behave so oddly and differently at different prop settings.

Even more odd, try taking off in the bf109 at different prop-pitch settings, and on some pitch settings at certains speeds, engine torque actually reverses itself and the plane will suddenly pull right instead of left on take-off!

I know for a while that no-nothing allied jocks were whining to high-heaven about a prop-pitch exploit in the 109, is this the result and fix for it? Is Oleg and crew that easily manipulated by the crying of mindless masses?

Real BS.

PFflyer
01-22-2007, 11:12 AM
Yak, Spit, Mustang, Fw190, you can all do anything in these planes at 100% prop pitch, but in the bf109 at 100% prop pitch the engine blows up and is ruined.

YOu can dive any other aircraft at 900km/hr(minus wings maybe) at 100% pitch and the engine is fine and dandy.

This is really a glaring inconsistancy and fault, and I would really like to hear an explanation from someone on the development team about this, that is just not BS.

I am sure prop technology among the various kinds of fighter airraft in WWII was fairly consistant as long as they were variable pitch, and engine technology was identical, except maybe in the case of the sleeve-valve enginge used in some British aircraft.

All engines were four-stroke internal combustion, large displacement, with poppet valves operated either by pushrods or overhead camshaft.

There is no reason for the behavior of the bf109 engine to behave so oddly and differently at different prop settings.

Even more odd, try taking off in the bf109 at different prop-pitch settings, and on some pitch settings at certains speeds, engine torque actually reverses itself and the plane will suddenly pull right instead of left on take-off!

I know for a while that no-nothing allied jocks were whining to high-heaven about a prop-pitch exploit in the 109, is this the result and fix for it? Is Oleg and crew that easily manipulated by the crying of mindless masses?

Real BS.

p-11.cAce
01-22-2007, 11:14 AM
got track? I fly the 109's almost exclusively and have never encountered these anomalies. I suppose if you were using the prop pitch improperly you would get such results but in normal use I've not seen them.

XyZspineZyX
01-22-2007, 11:17 AM
Thats because the pitch on the 109 is either automatic or fully manually operated.

You have to see the difference between a manually operated pitch plane and one with a constant speed propeller, like the Yak, Spit, Mustang, etc...

Constant speed props control RPM, so the 100% pitch you see is actually 100% RPM. But in a 109, 100% is 100% pitch, IE the engine over revs because its not torquing anything, its just freewheeling so to speak.

Kwiatos
01-22-2007, 11:20 AM
Bf109 has variable prop pitch which change direct angle of blade prop (if not in automatic mode)
Spit and P-51 (and others US and UK planes) have constant speed propeler which change RMP setting and angle of blade prop will be changed automaticly
Russian war planes used mostly variable prop pitch and should react like in Bf109. Dont know why in these planes engine dont blow - it is question for Oleg M.

PFflyer
01-22-2007, 11:20 AM
Right "Ace"9(lol),

The point is, that you CAN use prop pitch improperly on any other fighter aircraft in the sim, and there are no ill effects on the engine, but on the 109, if you fly it at all at 100% pitch, then it overspeeds and ruins the engine.

So the 109 for some reason is different, and has some special treatment in this area outside of all other similiar fighters, with similiar, and even not so similar engines.

Maybe under easy settings, without complex engine management this does not happen, you have to have complex engine management enabled to be able to manipulate mixture, prop pitch and so forth.

Duh!

AFJ_rsm
01-22-2007, 11:23 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

PFflyer
01-22-2007, 11:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kwiatos:
Bf109 has variable prop pitch which change direct angle of blade prop
Spit and P-51 (and others US and UK planes) have constant speed propeler which change RMP setting and angle of blade prop will be changed automaticly
Russian war planes used mostly variable prop pitch and should react like in Bf109. Dont know why in these planes engine dont blow - it is question for Oleg M. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Right, but you can enable manual prop pitch on all aircraft that have automatic props, if you go into controls and set a key for it. And it has no effect. The FW190 has auto pitch, but you can switch to manual and run it at 100% no problem.

Early spits have manual pitch adjustment, all mustangs have it, all can run 100% pitch no problem. Yes, you are also right, you said nothing, and Oleg could answer it.

AKA_TAGERT
01-22-2007, 11:27 AM
Oh you can use it.. for a little while! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Kwiatos
01-22-2007, 11:29 AM
Beacuese these automatic prop in constant speed propeler in these planes is probably wrong. In such prop pitch system you dont have automat which change RPM with throlle but you need do it manualy. So you just change RPM settings which automaticly change blade of prop. If you set 100% in game these represent maximum allowed RPM for plane.

Sry i was wrong. In late Spitfires there was automatic RMP control interconnected with throlle. So in automatic mode changing throlle casuee change in RPM which automaticly change angle of blade prop. When you off automatic mode you could manualy change RPM setings using prop lever.

tigertalon
01-22-2007, 11:32 AM
The thing is, that when you see the message "prop. pitch 100%" it has completely different meaning on 109 and on other planes. Like Skunk explained, on other, "regular" planes you actually adjust throttle through the prop pitch (blades are set at an angle at which the engine produces desired % of max rpm), while on 109 you do literally control the blades angle. If you set "prop pitch 100%" on regular planes, it's like "prop pitch AUTO" on 109. AFAIK no other plane in PF has fully manual pp.

PFflyer
01-22-2007, 11:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tigertalon:
The thing is, that when you see the message "prop. pitch 100%" it has completely different meaning on 109 and on other planes. Like Skunk explained, on other, "regular" planes you actually adjust throttle through the prop pitch (blades are set at an angle at which the engine produces desired % of max rpm), while on 109 you do literally control the blades angle. If you set "prop pitch 100%" on regular planes, it's like "prop pitch AUTO" on 109. AFAIK no other plane in PF has fully manual pp. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok, that explains it then, THANKS!


But still, try taking off in 109 at different prop pitch increments, starting at 100% and going down, you will see some really strange stuff, including the engine torque reversal I experienced at certain pitch settings, it is really whacky.

Kwiatos
01-22-2007, 11:51 AM
Still is the question why in russian planes and others with variable prop pitch engine dont blow like in Bf109 in dive with 100% pitch?

strider1
01-22-2007, 11:52 AM
Hi, all! For some in-depth info on the topic, see this recent thread http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/4781016625 Specific reference to the 109, 190 and P-47 mechanisms. Hope this helps. Cheers! Strider1

p-11.cAce
01-22-2007, 12:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Maybe under easy settings, without complex engine management this does not happen, you have to have complex engine management enabled to be able to manipulate mixture, prop pitch and so forth.

Duh! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I see - so because you do not know the proper means of using CEM with the 109 or the basic flight physics of why these anomalies occur you assume that I am not using full switch? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif Do you always assume that your hypothesis is right when faced with something that you do not understand but others do?

VW-IceFire
01-22-2007, 03:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PFflyer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tigertalon:
The thing is, that when you see the message "prop. pitch 100%" it has completely different meaning on 109 and on other planes. Like Skunk explained, on other, "regular" planes you actually adjust throttle through the prop pitch (blades are set at an angle at which the engine produces desired % of max rpm), while on 109 you do literally control the blades angle. If you set "prop pitch 100%" on regular planes, it's like "prop pitch AUTO" on 109. AFAIK no other plane in PF has fully manual pp. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok, that explains it then, THANKS!


But still, try taking off in 109 at different prop pitch increments, starting at 100% and going down, you will see some really strange stuff, including the engine torque reversal I experienced at certain pitch settings, it is really whacky. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
It does sound wacky...and I have nothing wrong with you asking the question...but is this pure curiosity or are you trying to get some extra performance out of it? To be honest, I would leave manual prop pitch to the really eccentric and let the auto system do its own thing because its generally better at it than most people are.

Thats just me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif