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Rakudaton
05-11-2011, 02:54 PM
I think we all noticed how much easier AC2 was than AC, and ACB just continued this trend. Whilst stealth actually stayed at about the same difficulty, combat and fleeing were the two areas that got too easy:


COMBAT

AC had guards (templars) that took a lot of hits to kill and could counter your attacks. They were difficult to defeat.

ACB had no guards that couldn't be killed in a single blow with a killstreak, or just killed with the crossbow or gun in one shot. Or you could poison them. Or throw a smoke bomb and kill them instantly with any weapon.

FLEEING

In AC the guards would dog you relentlessly, chasing you across rooftops and making you have to think ahead as you fled.

In ACB you could lose the guards by literally just climbing up the face of a building.



What do people think? Will Revelations be even easier to make it more "accessible" -- presumably for people who stop playing a game if they die more than once?

After all, Ezio can now freerun and climb about 30% faster thanks to the hookblade. Combat should be easier as he can pull enemies in, throw bombs, and so on. Clearly there's going to have to be something to balance this out... surely...


GO!

samuelcd1997
05-11-2011, 03:09 PM
In my opinion it was easier to escape because as soon as you jumped in a hay stack (relying the guards couldnt see you) you were pretty much free,
in acb (cant remember about ac2) they would search around even after they lose sight of you and poke the haystackes with spears etc.

lilbacchant
05-11-2011, 03:30 PM
Originally posted by Rakudaton:
What do people think? Will Revelations be even easier to make it more "accessible" -- presumably for people who stop playing a game if they die more than once?

GAWD, I hope not! If so, we can all fervently hope that they'll listen to our pleas and provide difficulty settings ... finally. But I'm not gonna hold my breath.

IIwangcarsII
05-11-2011, 03:39 PM
Originally posted by lilbacchant:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rakudaton:
What do people think? Will Revelations be even easier to make it more "accessible" -- presumably for people who stop playing a game if they die more than once?

GAWD, I hope not! If so, we can all fervently hope that they'll listen to our pleas and provide difficulty settings ... finally. But I'm not gonna hold my breath. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If they do implement difficulty settings, they will have to do a good job! And I hope they dont have practically impossible difficulty modes that most of the achievements are for, that is what I hated about the CoD difficulty options!

iN3krO
05-11-2011, 03:43 PM
FINALY SOME1 AGREEING WITH ME... Rakudaton i really love you..

Now please read this suggestion made by me and copy past in the DLC feedback (which is the suggestions topic for news ACs) if you like it (plus give me your feedback about my suggestions


Originally posted by daniel_gervide:
I just want a game that requires skill to be able to chose anyway you want...

Like in Ac1:

When i played it the first time i had to be stealthy cuz if i didn't i would meet guards and i wasn't good in combats... Now i just try to keep stealthy cuz i think it's funnier keep in the shadows and cuz i really want to follow the creed (which is in the name of the game), but i can chose to be stealthy or pull out and kill guards cuz i'm skilled enought to....

Resume: add the freedoom of chosing stealthy or combats for skilled players.

How to do it?
- Remove sword like combos with hiden blade (don't remove the killstreaks)
- Make guards able to do what they used to do in ac1 (templairs used to grab you or break your defense....) when they are in group they could just hold you how the fast guards do at ac:B...
- Make guards attacks as powerfull as our attacks (Brutos in ac2 are ripped of with 3 sword attacks while they need to hit you like 8 times with the axe)...
- Increanse the time for aiming with the gun and increanse the time that a arrow needs to reach the target.... Make the knife velocity similar to ac1 so that you need to have skill to know when you can throw knifes or not.
- Remake guards able to say where did you go after beating them (you needed to use hidden blade to finish with them) (They would be crying in the ground only if they are beaten with non-letal attacks like in ac1)...

The killstreaks are nice cuz they require skill to have timmings to do counter attacks when someone is going to attack you, oh and i want to say that ubisoft did a good work in that part except that even if you didn't killed the guy you were killing before the counter-attack he still deaths but i hope they can fix this for revelations...

If someone thinks that only skilled ppl should have the right to chose what they want to do is unfair please give me the arguments :S

Plus i had some plus ideas... adding double katar as a weapon making as able to run with them in the hands (making it impossible to grab a salient or scale while with them in the hands) make the combat system with them like ac2/brotherhood hidden blade and make hiden blade how it was before (execpt for killstreaks maybe)

PS - Ubisoft always says: Over 15hours gameplay with ezio bla bla bla... adding such a dificult would add about 5 hours more in the whole gameplay and would atract ppl with more skill like me (i like ac2 and brotherhood but i think they don't incentivate us to follow the creed)...

crash3
05-11-2011, 04:19 PM
Originally posted by samuelcd1997:
In my opinion it was easier to escape because as soon as you jumped in a hay stack (relying the guards couldnt see you) you were pretty much free,
in acb (cant remember about ac2) they would search around even after they lose sight of you and poke the haystackes with spears etc.

AC1 fleeing however was only easy if you managed to find a hide spot

also i really hope that ACR is made harder in both combat and stealth by making uards smarter and less predictable and also by ezio being hindered by his old age. the guards need a lot more skill

iN3krO
05-11-2011, 04:25 PM
Originally posted by crash3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by samuelcd1997:
In my opinion it was easier to escape because as soon as you jumped in a hay stack (relying the guards couldnt see you) you were pretty much free,
in acb (cant remember about ac2) they would search around even after they lose sight of you and poke the haystackes with spears etc.

AC1 fleeing however was only easy if you managed to find a hide spot

also i really hope that ACR is made harder in both combat and stealth by making uards smarter and less predictable and also by ezio being hindered by his old age. the guards need a lot more skill </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

did u read what i've said?

crash3
05-11-2011, 04:30 PM
Originally posted by daniel_gervide:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crash3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by samuelcd1997:
In my opinion it was easier to escape because as soon as you jumped in a hay stack (relying the guards couldnt see you) you were pretty much free,
in acb (cant remember about ac2) they would search around even after they lose sight of you and poke the haystackes with spears etc.

AC1 fleeing however was only easy if you managed to find a hide spot

also i really hope that ACR is made harder in both combat and stealth by making uards smarter and less predictable and also by ezio being hindered by his old age. the guards need a lot more skill </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

did u read what i've said? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

errr yeh

SixKeys
05-11-2011, 05:21 PM
I've been hoping for Ubi to bring back the difficulty from AC1 for ages. In ACB the guards would at least attack you faster instead of standing around waiting like idiots, but I miss their counter-attack abilities from the first game. With the Templar knights in AC1 it was necessary to either sneak up to them stealthily or level up until you had a lot of health bars. Beating them at the beginning of the game (as a low-level assassin) was nearly impossible. The battle with a dozen Templars at the end of the game (with Robert de Sable) is still the toughest fight in the history of the franchise.

In contrast, in AC2 and ACB it's easy to take on several brutes or papal guards as long as you have a good enough weapon or a few smoke bombs at your disposal. I wish they could at least kick you on to the ground like in AC1, rendering you helpless for a moment. It would force you to think about tactics.

I've also never liked being able to fight with the hidden blade. It doesn't seem realistic to deliver heavy blows to a well-armed guard with just a thin metal blade. The hidden blade should be a stealth-only weapon, like poison.

I also agree with the OP about fleeing. In AC1 it was a little silly how the guards wouldn't think to check any nearby haystacks or benches once they lost sight of you, but at least you were FORCED to find a hiding spot eventually, otherwise they would hound you endlessly all over the map. In the sequels you only have to escape a small area on the map and the guards forget you ever existed. They should combine the best of both games; keep the seekers who will look for you in hiding places like in AC2/ACB and make pursuers more relentless like in AC1.

Rea1SamF1sher
05-11-2011, 06:09 PM
It's perhaps the biggest problem I have with this feanchise. It becomes easier and easier and you are not able to choose how you do your missions. They lost to much focus from the credo, blending into the crowd, using stealth, because it's actually suicide to fight against a group of guards. It should require skill to kill such a group. There need to be a learning curve. Give more Social Stealth features, more freedom and more challenging game. Difficulty Modes would be one solution.

chizzy12
05-11-2011, 06:23 PM
as long as it's fun i don't care

Fairus60
05-11-2011, 08:55 PM
Originally posted by Andre202:
It's perhaps the biggest problem I have with this feanchise. It becomes easier and easier and you are not able to choose how you do your missions. They lost to much focus from the credo, blending into the crowd, using stealth, because it's actually suicide to fight against a group of guards. It should require skill to kill such a group. There need to be a learning curve. Give more Social Stealth features, more freedom and more challenging game. Difficulty Modes would be one solution.
My thoughts exactly pal. In every game, we have recieved more ways to kill, but guards have done all the contrary. In AC1, they were quite balanced. You felt in every encounter that it could be your last, even making you flee from time to time. In AC2 and ACB, you just have to mash the buttons and you are done in a few secs. I thought that the offensive attitude of the guards in ACB would represent more difficulty, but they were just far easier than before. Maybe if they could combine AC1 AI with ACBs, we could get a perfectly balanced enemy

GibsonD90
05-11-2011, 09:32 PM
I kinda agree with this, I do find it easier these days. More weapons equals easier ways to get kills. But i like having more weapons so I can't complain about that.

I don't like the whole 'synch' thing that required you to do special stuff for the 100%. Sure most of the time I try to be stealthy, but i don't like it to be mandatory. Or to make a certain time. Or to only kill one person. I prefer to tackle the mission my way.

L.Cie
05-11-2011, 11:59 PM
What do people think? Will Revelations be even easier to make it more "accessible" -- presumably for people who stop playing a game if they die more than once?

I hope against hope that it isn't.
I haven't started Brotherhood yet (Next week!) but I found AC2 frustratingly easy.
The one time I got Ezio killed was when I accidentally jumped off the Basilisca in Florence.
What good is a game with no challenge?
I've been hearing that Brotherhood is even easier than the aformentioned game, and if Revelations happens to be even easier, I might outright give up on the series despite how much I like the convulted story.

So, here's hoping Revelations is actually challenging!

iN3krO
05-12-2011, 12:52 AM
Could you say your opinion about my suggestions? they are intended to add some challenging to the game (in the combat part) incentivating the stealth way...

Vey03
05-12-2011, 02:34 AM
Originally posted by Andre202:
There need to be a learning curve.

Each game has had one.

Either through direct gameplay (AC1 - Altair having to re-learn everything after being stripped of rank, and AC2 - Ezio being taught by Mario), as well as by the use of the training system, as in ACB.
We can also access the training in all games at any time, and are asked to when we get a new weapon/ability.

The guards also increase in difficulty as well as number the further you go in the game. As does misson difficulty.


Difficulty Modes would be one solution.
Agree.


Originally posted by GibsonD90:
I don't like the whole 'synch' thing that required you to do special stuff for the 100%. Sure most of the time I try to be stealthy, but i don't like it to be mandatory. Or to make a certain time. Or to only kill one person. I prefer to tackle the mission my way.

You can play 'your way'. Just because you don't get 100% won't leave anything out.
100% sync is for completing a level the hard way. It's a sort-of difficulty setting.
I have no problem with it. If you can't do it, then you can't. But you're not missing out on anything.


Having said all that, i hated the minions of guards i had to fight in ACB. I prefer to be sneaky, kill a few people if i have to, get it, do what needs to be done, and get out. I don't want to have to battle an army each time i need to do something.

Tuck2103
05-12-2011, 06:17 AM
If you ask me, the problem with the combat system lies within the new weapons and the decreasing strenght of the guards that come with every new game.

In AC 1, Altar was only equiped with a few blades and throwing knives to fight against tough enemies. Ezio however, was given a gun and smokebombs in AC II, while the guards became significantly weaker. For example, some guards swung swords like they were dancing in the Nutcracker, making their attack easy to counter. And ACB gave us killstreaks, which nullified the worth of enemy healthbars.
So while the Assassin gets stronger, the enemy gets weaker and that is an unchallenging development if you ask me.

Speaking about escaping, I totally agree with the posts above me. Guards seem to behave more like morons with every new game. They forget you existed after they lost you, and give up searching for you far too fast. And when you get notorious, guards aren't even bothered spending their time looking for you specificly.
This should be improved in ACR. There should be guards that focus on finding Ezio instead of patrolling the city, ignoring the huge piles of bodies like nothing happened.

This would make the game much more challenging, says I.

Noble6
05-12-2011, 06:30 AM
Biggest flaw of ac2/acb was that they were absolutely too easy.Health system should be more like in the first AC. If they keep medicine it should only decrease the time needed to get health back. Magical super medicine which filled your health during the battle was awfull.

Easy way but not so innovative would be different difficulties or some kind of 'hardcore mode'. This would be pretty lazy solution.

The problem is to make game good for both casual and hardcore gamers.

iN3krO
05-12-2011, 07:04 AM
Why is everyone ignoring my suggestions? OMFG -.-''

ChaosxNetwork
05-12-2011, 09:37 AM
All that is need is to go back to AC: 1 synced health system. Have one maybe two health squares and the up to five separate armor squares.
Armour has to be fixed.
Health regenerates after a few minute
The of course increase the guard AI.

Tuck2103
05-12-2011, 09:39 AM
@daniel_gervide Because it contains lots of spelling errors and you're telling us to repost it somewhere else.
Feedback on your suggestions: Most of them are real conservative, it seems you want to renovate the combat system to AC I. Also, the changes that you're suggesting are so small that they'll not increase the game's difficulty.

But I'm sure Ubisoft reads them http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Inorganic9_2
05-12-2011, 10:05 AM
I think it would be better if the ranged weapons had to be reloaded so, once you've used the gun in combat, you have to wat until you've had the time to reload it before you can use it again.

Tuck2103
05-12-2011, 11:09 AM
Originally posted by Inorganic9_2:
I think it would be better if the ranged weapons had to be reloaded so, once you've used the gun in combat, you have to wat until you've had the time to reload it before you can use it again.

I suppose that you mean that the reload time should take longer? Because ranged weapons do have to be reloaded after being used in AC.

joaomuas
05-12-2011, 11:23 AM
They could do the game so hard that if you found yourself surrounded, it'd be almost impossible to survive, incentivating stealth and the use of bombs.

joaomuas
05-12-2011, 11:27 AM
And I also have a great idea for modern-day combat. Yes, everyone's been saying that modern day obligues the use of guns for the enemies, but that doesn't mean Desmond needs to use them! Think about it, you'd need to be ultra-stealthy and if you needed to fight with the guards, you'd need to sneak out from behind and finish them of before they could shoot you. It'd be great!

iN3krO
05-12-2011, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by Tuck2103:
@daniel_gervide Because it contains lots of spelling errors and you're telling us to repost it somewhere else.
Feedback on your suggestions: Most of them are real conservative, it seems you want to renovate the combat system to AC I. Also, the changes that you're suggesting are so small that they'll not increase the game's difficulty.

But I'm sure Ubisoft reads them http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I'm not english or american so spelling erros are normal?...

I want to "downgrades" what made the game worst and trust me even being small they will increase the game's difficulty... it wont be as difficult as ac1 but that's normal... more weapons and more ways to kill = less difficult...

Sometimes new things are not better than old ones and if somethings in the news assassin's creeds are worst why would ubisoft don't want to go back to the origins? (of course without going back to the origins with the things that improved the game, i'm just sure that the things i've said are the things that made the game worst and you are just trying to make it harder just by the easy way instead of the right way...)

Turkiye96
05-12-2011, 02:11 PM
this is one of the reasons why i got so exited when i heard ACR was comm
ng out because we all know Ezio is gona be in his 50's so its going to be a lot harder to flee and fight http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif with will make it a lot more realistic and give us a propper challenge. i agree with you that the lines will make it too easy to run away and that they need to make it out of order when being chased or something ( mabye add a huge disadvantage to it while being chased... mabye the guards can cut the line and leave you falling to your doom?) :P

iN3krO
05-12-2011, 02:54 PM
Originally posted by Turkiye96:
this is one of the reasons why i got so exited when i heard ACR was comm
ng out because we all know Ezio is gona be in his 50's so its going to be a lot harder to flee and fight http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif with will make it a lot more realistic and give us a propper challenge. i agree with you that the lines will make it too easy to run away and that they need to make it out of order when being chased or something ( mabye add a huge disadvantage to it while being chased... mabye the guards can cut the line and leave you falling to your doom?) :P

Have you read GameInformer?

Combat: Added more offensive features

So it will be even easier -.-''

piratprince
05-12-2011, 02:54 PM
hello everyone, i wish with the new Moscan technology ubi can build a great dialog-system . make the whole social aspect more organic and more fluid.

basically create a evolving trust/liar guild system. Every faction you serve have their own goals (money) and its up to the player how to win the guilds. You can gain or loose trust in the society. Depending on what you are doing with this world. This could also work together with the random missions. Helping badits or the poor people etc. Depending on what you decide, the world will react to you and will increaase or decrease your money or faction influence .

I think it will be great to have urban rivals gangs etc. messing up with the system and finally convincing the people you need for the real important job to be done. (saving the world , main story)
Its also a good way to make the six sense more "realistic". To be good in convincing npc or interrogate with them.

Sry for my bad english.

iN3krO
05-12-2011, 02:55 PM
Originally posted by Pirat of Persia Warrior Muffin:
hello everyone, i wish with the new Moscan technology ubi can build a great dialog-system . make the whole social aspect more organic and more fluid.

basically create a evolving trust/liar guild system. Every faction you serve have their own goals (money) and its up to the player how to win the guilds. You can gain or loose trust in the society. Depending on what you are doing with this world. This could also work together with the random missions. Helping badits or the poor people etc. Depending on what you decide, the world will react to you and will increaase or decrease your money or faction influence .

I think it will be great to have urban rivals gangs etc. messing up with the system and finally convincing the people you need for the real important job to be done. (saving the world , main story)
Its also a good way to make the six sense more "realistic". To be good in convincing npc or interrogate with them.

Sry for my bad english.

six sense is with desmond and not ezio -.-''

piratprince
05-12-2011, 03:02 PM
Originally posted by daniel_gervide:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pirat of Persia Warrior Muffin:
hello everyone, i wish with the new Moscan technology ubi can build a great dialog-system . make the whole social aspect more organic and more fluid.

basically create a evolving trust/liar guild system. Every faction you serve have their own goals (money) and its up to the player how to win the guilds. You can gain or loose trust in the society. Depending on what you are doing with this world. This could also work together with the random missions. Helping badits or the poor people etc. Depending on what you decide, the world will react to you and will increaase or decrease your money or faction influence .

I think it will be great to have urban rivals gangs etc. messing up with the system and finally convincing the people you need for the real important job to be done. (saving the world , main story)
Its also a good way to make the six sense more "realistic". To be good in convincing npc or interrogate with them.

Sry for my bad english.

six sense is with desmond and not ezio -.-'' </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

your are right :P
sry i am wrong
eagle sense or eagle vision is with ezio and it leads us to the same thing: instinct http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

itsamea-mario
05-12-2011, 03:09 PM
Honestly i don't care.