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vanjast
09-19-2005, 05:38 AM
I'm on patrol in AN55, and have let my presence be known on many occasion, but the destroyers or aircraft do not sustain their attacks. they make a few passes then buzz off.

If I was in command of a destroyer on free hunt, and I knew that there was a sub here, I'd stay here for days hunting the thing. this is the purpose of the destroyer, come escorts - To sink subs.

Surely they must have done this early in the war. I'm not tlaking about the hunter killer groups that roamed in the empty ocean, instead of hanging around convoys, but the individual ships.

This might be a nice idea for a mod.

V-MAN2404
09-19-2005, 06:04 AM
aircraft buzz off if they have run out of bombs to drop on you.

Destroyers hound me for ages (one hounded me for nearly 2 days) unless I can bottom my boat out or go really deep and quiet.

Baldricks_Mate
09-19-2005, 07:25 AM
Weapon officer!, set stern tube T1 to fast, set tube #1 T1 to fast, both at depth 1m, open outer door tube five...range to target 450m..match bearings.....Los!


Escort? what Escort?

I didn't do it, I wasn't there, Your Honour!.. they can't prove a thing! (the Bart Simpson defense)

Kaleun1961
09-19-2005, 12:53 PM
"Hunter-killer" groups did not roam idly in the open oceans. The British learned early in the war that offensive patrolling was a waste of time and resources. Such groups were positioned along the convoy routes in order that they might rush to supplement the escort force of any convoy that had come under attack or was in jeopardy of attack.

The British used the term, "support group." The Americans used the term, "hunter-killer." They are both the same, different terminology.

WirMussen
09-19-2005, 01:04 PM
my longest escape and evasion from a DD was less than 30mins (iv been destroyed twice, usually within a minute of being detected) in the meditteranean around malta, with around 6 ships hunting me, i just deployed a decoy after running full ahead, depth 30, then turned 45degrees and went to silent running, it was too easy! all the excitment finished before long as they all looked in the complete wrong area

Kaleun1961
09-19-2005, 01:17 PM
That's so often how it goes. It seems you are either in for a good, long beating, or you get clean away. I haven't done anything in the Med yet, but I think it will be interesting, being surrounded by all those nearby shorelines.

vanjast
09-19-2005, 01:28 PM
The "Hunter Killer" groups originally roamed the empty seas until someone came up with the idea that there is a higher probability of finding Uboats around a convoy.
This was in the Biography of that captain (can't remember his name - the guy who died of a heart attack/fatigue on board his ship). It's such a long time ago since I read that book, the details are sketchy..
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froschman
09-19-2005, 03:08 PM
The famous uboat-killer captain, that died on his ship, was commander F J Walker, and his ship was the sloop "Stork". Reference "Deutsche U-Boote" by David Mason (I have found the german translation in Germany and bought it, because I can read german.)

ILikePortillos
09-19-2005, 03:18 PM
Originally posted by Kaleun1961:
That's so often how it goes. It seems you are either in for a good, long beating, or you get clean away. I haven't done anything in the Med yet, but I think it will be interesting, being surrounded by all those nearby shorelines.

Good thing about the Med though, it's plenty deep! Also, I would imagine you could get a good response time from air support if you were able to squeak off a contact report before diving.

vanjast
09-19-2005, 04:57 PM
Originally posted by froschman:
The famous uboat-killer captain, that died on his ship, was commander F J Walker, and his ship was the sloop "Stork". Reference "Deutsche U-Boote" by David Mason (I have found the german translation in Germany and bought it, because I can read german.)

That's him. I read the book (not sure if it's the same) about 20 years ago. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

3.JG51_Molders
09-19-2005, 06:04 PM
Recently being hounded by a V & W and a Clemson class destroyer after attacking a convoy in waters with less than 60m max, I'd rather they left me to go back to the convoy. The buggers followed me for three hours, nice fireworks show though!

Acunnon
09-20-2005, 12:06 AM
In wide open water I can usually lose a single DD in a half hour (I am a rather careless captain) when there are more it takes a little longer, and the more there are the more likely I am to go to periscope depth and launch a few fish. The only place I ever get nervous is when I am trying to sneak in and out of the med (getting past Gibraltar) and when I am trying to shorten my trip around England by going through the channel. I once was forced to hide from constant frigate corvette armed trawler and a DD all trying to find me as I tried to sneak through the channel took three hours (real time) to sneak through that was in early 40. Withstood a hunter killer group just outside the med CG9, 1 carrier 4 heavy DD and several smaller ships, I hid for what seemed like days. They knew I was there and refused to leave until I do not know why they just gave up after 36 hours. The problem was there was a carrier and I wanted it they wasted a day and a half of my time and I wanted payment for my time, I fired my aft electric for a keel shot then spun around and readied my 4 steams, set to salvo no spread 4 meters down max speed FIRE. Two minutes later the steam detonated taking out her rudder and screws followed closely by four rapid impacts. I sent her to the bottom but had to endure 4 days of DDs searching for me being pinged and having ash cans rain around me but it was worth it.


My guess I rambled off but there you go hounded for close to six days but I got a carrier out of it. It's my nature I start typing and I can not find a place to stop.

Baldricks_Mate
09-20-2005, 01:56 AM
I practised my DD hunting skills in the single mission of Narvick. Don't cheat and go for the XXI, use a VII. Modify the mission orders...Sink as many escorts as possible, then the Warspite.

Shallow water, DD's everywhere!

Sharpen your skills and you will never have to hide in fear again.

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froschman
09-23-2005, 11:27 AM
A small correction on the famous sub-killer commander Walker. He did not die aboard the sloop Stork, which he commaded in the beginning. He switched to another sloop named Starling, where he died.

Kaleun1961
09-23-2005, 11:45 AM
He was one dedicated U-boat killer. It's been a while since I read about him, but I vaguely recall something about his earlier career, something along the lines that he was passed over or denied promotion, something like that and the Royal Navy nearly dismissed him. Like I said, my memory about that is very vague.

I do remember the author saying that his favourite phrase, when hunting U-boats, was, "Beat the pants off her!" Wasn't he the fellow who nailed Kretschmer?

Van Jast, thanks for the correction about the HK's. Yes, the British did in the beginning try that concept of offensive patrolling and then found it more effective to have them nearer the convoys. Scientific research did contribute a lot to defeating the U-boats.

There was a controversy around the time about increasing the size of the convoys in terms of the number of escorts available. Some clever chap in the analysis department was able to make a mathematical co-relation between the size of a convoy's perimeter and the number of escorts. He determined that increasing the number of ships in a convoy by a certain factor would result in a minor increase in the perimeter of the convoy. This larger convoy would reduce the number of convoys, therefore fewer convoys to protect. The freed up escorts would then be redistributed in such a manner that they improved the number of escorts per mile of perimeter, thereby attaining a force multiplier effect. It was brilliant work. I must look it up and quote it here sometime.