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jolulure
04-30-2006, 09:32 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/354.gif
Why does this plane behaves so strangely??? it shakes and moves in a paranormal way when aiming, and using the rudder. Planes like tempest do shake much less. The nose moves when aiming everytime, making it difficult to be precise. Its like if I was using the rudder fully right and fully left everytime, you know... It isnt a trim problem, as the little ball is centered... Sorry to be so repetitive...its just that... im a beginner!!!

By the way, I bougth yesterday Thrustmaster Top Gun Fox 2. Two hundred times more precise and better calibrated than Cyborg Evo!!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/inlove.gif

Thanks for your help!

VW-IceFire
04-30-2006, 11:12 AM
See my post in this thread on the SimHQ forum:
http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb....topic;f=144;t=004648 (http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=144;t=004648)

The Corsair is, for some reason, laterally unstable...but some other factors can mean the difference between liveable and useless. I think your experiencing the more useless attributes.

VMF-214_HaVoK
04-30-2006, 11:27 AM
The Corsair and the Hellcat are the only planes left that behave this way. Its been said many times. Since the addons/patches are not of Olegs work anymore I doubt we will see a change to the FM. Which is sad...the Hellcat is a real pos and deserves to be modeled better.

jolulure
04-30-2006, 11:36 AM
OK. Thank you. Once more your friendship has been proved... continue like that... See ya!!

Tempest = Best plane!!!! well... I prefer F22 Lightning... but...

Thanks

shinden1974
04-30-2006, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by VMF-214_HaVoK:
The Corsair and the Hellcat are the only planes left that behave this way. Its been said many times. Since the addons/patches are not of Olegs work anymore I doubt we will see a change to the FM. Which is sad...the Hellcat is a real pos and deserves to be modeled better.

Man...I hope your wrong...seriously...the assymmetric recoil is the worst bug in this game to me. If they won't fix the 'wobbles' at least they can fix the recoil.

VW-IceFire
04-30-2006, 02:53 PM
Originally posted by shinden1974:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VMF-214_HaVoK:
The Corsair and the Hellcat are the only planes left that behave this way. Its been said many times. Since the addons/patches are not of Olegs work anymore I doubt we will see a change to the FM. Which is sad...the Hellcat is a real pos and deserves to be modeled better.

Man...I hope your wrong...seriously...the assymmetric recoil is the worst bug in this game to me. If they won't fix the 'wobbles' at least they can fix the recoil. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Actually the problems are likely related as the asymmetric recoil is the worst on these two while the others should experience the problems but don't because they are less prone to excessive nose wobble.

IL2-chuter
04-30-2006, 03:00 PM
(Hey, Icefire . . . I think you mean directionally unstable. Lateral is roll, got your meaning, though.)

I think all the planes are still a bit wobbly (especially at speed) but being a computer game it will never actually be quite like flying the real thing. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Oh, well . . . http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Nimits
04-30-2006, 11:13 PM
Man...I hope your wrong...seriously...the assymmetric recoil is the worst bug in this game to me. If they won't fix the 'wobbles' at least they can fix the recoil.

Ditto. I really hope they fix the assymetric recoil, since at the moment it is really screwing up USN and USMC fighter careers. At the very least, they could switch the Grumman Cats and the Corsair back to synched .50 cals. Desynched guns make look more realistic, but other than that, there is little real difference between synched and desynched .50 cal, and I'll admit, till 4.04m, I never really thought about it one way or the other. Though obviously we would all prefer to have the USN fighters have desynched guns without the assymetric recoil, I can say without hesitation that above all I would like the assymetric recoil eliminated, even at the expense of the desynched .50 cals. I can play with synched .50 cals without really noticing anything drastically wrong. On the other hand, assymetric recoil pretty much breaks the USN fighters at the moment.

VW-IceFire
05-01-2006, 06:33 AM
Yes ...directionally. Sorry...brainfart http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Does the asymmetric recoil bother you guys that much? I mean, I feel a bit of it, but I can still burst a grouping of .50cals into an enemy at a high deflection angle with relative ease. I can hold a stream of bullets into a Betty at high deflection angle without a huge issue either. No more so than another type.

The rudder is oversensitive so I'm always tweaking my input curves. You guys may want to tone your rudder response and see if that helps.

shinden1974
05-01-2006, 04:01 PM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Yes ...directionally. Sorry...brainfart http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Does the asymmetric recoil bother you guys that much? I mean, I feel a bit of it, but I can still burst a grouping of .50cals into an enemy at a high deflection angle with relative ease. I can hold a stream of bullets into a Betty at high deflection angle without a huge issue either. No more so than another type.

The rudder is oversensitive so I'm always tweaking my input curves. You guys may want to tone your rudder response and see if that helps.

yeah, it's that bad. When your coming down on a betty and aiming at an engine every bullet counts, when your burst is walking across the wing, it's wasted ammo and annoying to just look at. Think Tempest with missing cannon...you'd be screaming too...be sure!

It's still possible to fight, it's just a ridiculous handicap.

shinden1974
05-01-2006, 04:04 PM
Originally posted by Nimits:

Ditto. I really hope they fix the assymetric recoil, since at the moment it is really screwing up USN and USMC fighter careers. At the very least, they could switch the Grumman Cats and the Corsair back to synched .50 cals. Desynched guns make look more realistic, but other than that, there is little real difference between synched and desynched .50 cal, and I'll admit, till 4.04m, I never really thought about it one way or the other. Though obviously we would all prefer to have the USN fighters have desynched guns without the assymetric recoil, I can say without hesitation that above all I would like the assymetric recoil eliminated, even at the expense of the desynched .50 cals. I can play with synched .50 cals without really noticing anything drastically wrong. On the other hand, assymetric recoil pretty much breaks the USN fighters at the moment.

yeah, that desynched .50's thing sort of just walked up and bit the USN plane fans in the *** didn't it? The USAAF planes don't seem to have a problem so I'm sure we can have our cake and eat it too.

VW-IceFire
05-01-2006, 04:32 PM
Originally posted by shinden1974:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Yes ...directionally. Sorry...brainfart http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Does the asymmetric recoil bother you guys that much? I mean, I feel a bit of it, but I can still burst a grouping of .50cals into an enemy at a high deflection angle with relative ease. I can hold a stream of bullets into a Betty at high deflection angle without a huge issue either. No more so than another type.

The rudder is oversensitive so I'm always tweaking my input curves. You guys may want to tone your rudder response and see if that helps.

yeah, it's that bad. When your coming down on a betty and aiming at an engine every bullet counts, when your burst is walking across the wing, it's wasted ammo and annoying to just look at. Think Tempest with missing cannon...you'd be screaming too...be sure!

It's still possible to fight, it's just a ridiculous handicap. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
What tweaks have you done to your input curves? If none...then maybe that will help.

shinden1974
05-01-2006, 05:21 PM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:

[What tweaks have you done to your input curves? If none...then maybe that will help.

actually the Corsair handles halfway decent with my rudder settings now. The problems come about after pulling the trigger, I'm not sure I can adjust the rudder to compensate, or if I would even want to.

Nimits
05-01-2006, 06:58 PM
actually the Corsair handles halfway decent with my rudder settings now. The problems come about after pulling the trigger, I'm not sure I can adjust the rudder to compensate, or if I would even want to.

The real issue, whether or not one can compensate, is that one should not have to. No other plane or series of planes in the game exhibits this behavior, and no sim, book, documetary, etc, I have ever run accross covering the Grumman Cat's and/or the Corsair ever gave the slightest indication that USN fighters should exhibit this current "shoot and sway" tendancy.

R_Target
05-02-2006, 12:04 AM
Originally posted by Nimits:
The real issue, whether or not one can compensate, one should not have to. No other plane or series of planes in the game exhibits this behavior, and no sim, book, documetary, etc, I have ever run accross covering the Grumman Cat's and/or the Corsair ever gave the slightest indication that USN fighters should exhibit this current "shoot and sway" tendancy.

Ditto on that one.

stansdds
05-02-2006, 04:13 AM
Originally posted by Nimits:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">actually the Corsair handles halfway decent with my rudder settings now. The problems come about after pulling the trigger, I'm not sure I can adjust the rudder to compensate, or if I would even want to.

The real issue, whether or not one can compensate, one should not have to. No other plane or series of planes in the game exhibits this behavior, and no sim, book, documetary, etc, I have ever run accross covering the Grumman Cat's and/or the Corsair ever gave the slightest indication that USN fighters should exhibit this current "shoot and sway" tendancy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bingo!

R988z
05-02-2006, 10:37 AM
It makes shooting small ground targets like light AA or trucks much harder as well, I used to be able to pop an AA placement easily in one pass, line it up and knock it out with a quick burst at close range, now I seem to shoot everywhere around it except on the target, even playing with the convergence doesn't help. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

tcr42
05-04-2006, 06:18 AM
People who aren't having problems (or have ironed them out with the Corsair's wobbles) what are your rudder or X/Y axis settings?

Are you using a progressive curve, or filtering to damp it right down? I'm confused at whether its worth trying to cure this flaw, given that any input corrections that solve the Corsair's apparent aft CoG and instability might transform the Gladiator's handling into an A380 in the process...

Anyone got any tips for joystick settings?

VF-51-Dart
05-04-2006, 12:51 PM
The real issue, whether or not one can compensate, is that one should not have to. No other plane or series of planes in the game exhibits this behavior, and no sim, book, documetary, etc, I have ever run accross covering the Grumman Cat's and/or the Corsair ever gave the slightest indication that USN fighters should exhibit this current "shoot and sway" tendancy.

Actually, I have to disagree here with you, and this thread a bit. For the life of me I can't remember which video it was, but it was guncams from Hellcats. Each time the guns were initially fired the a/c would yaw to one side as the de-synced .50s fired, but then would stabilize as they kept the trigger down. This is exactly what my experience has been in this sim with the Hellcat and Corsair.

This initial yaw when you first fire the guns is much more noticeable at slower speeds (which you shouldn't be fighting at in these birds anyway http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif )than they are when making high speed attacks. Just a little rudder to correct and viola! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

VW-IceFire
05-04-2006, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by Nimits:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">actually the Corsair handles halfway decent with my rudder settings now. The problems come about after pulling the trigger, I'm not sure I can adjust the rudder to compensate, or if I would even want to.

The real issue, whether or not one can compensate, is that one should not have to. No other plane or series of planes in the game exhibits this behavior, and no sim, book, documetary, etc, I have ever run accross covering the Grumman Cat's and/or the Corsair ever gave the slightest indication that USN fighters should exhibit this current "shoot and sway" tendancy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thats a fair point to be sure. My point is twofold:

1) Devise a short term solution (half solution) that makes the situation more bearable

2) Zero in on the problem that is causing this sway...be it the configuration of the guns ROF or the instability in these aircraft

Nimits
05-04-2006, 05:50 PM
Actually, I have to disagree here with you, and this thread a bit. For the life of me I can't remember which video it was, but it was guncams from Hellcats. Each time the guns were initially fired the a/c would yaw to one side as the de-synced .50s fired, but then would stabilize as they kept the trigger down. This is exactly what my experience has been in this sim with the Hellcat and Corsair.

Really!!?? I know it can be tough remembering those sort of things, but do you think you could possibly try to recall and find that video? If your recollection of the sequence is accurate, that would be quite an interesting find (and the first I have ever heard of it).

VF-51-Dart
05-04-2006, 06:39 PM
I've been trying to remember all day while sitting here at work. I think it may have been one of those clips online at that Google video place that folks keep linking to. Don't quote me though. But, I remember watching it and thinking "Wow! Guess that was normal."

It makes sense to me, seeing as how the guns are not synced and so when you initially squeeze the trigger just a couple of the guns fire to start off before you get through the sequence.

I vaguely remember someone else posting a firing order of some .50 cals during the effort to get 1C to de-sync them, and that made sense as well.

R_Target
05-04-2006, 06:47 PM
It would be interesting to see, but it would be difficult to determine if it was the guns or the pilot.

VF-51-Dart
05-04-2006, 06:52 PM
True, except this particular clip showed the yaw (mind you it wasn't huge) happening just as he started firing. So that's what made me think it must have been normal.

I'll have to ask a couple of our squad members if they know what clip it is. One of them has a fairly extensive video library of WWII aviation.

Dean3238
05-04-2006, 07:36 PM
Yeah, let us know where the clip is... I have a hunch that if it is on the ground, all you are seeing in yaw is the effect of the tail wheel cocking around.

Dean

VF-51-Dart
05-04-2006, 08:20 PM
No, it was actual combat footage. This is going to drive flippin nuts trying to remember where I saw this. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

stansdds
05-05-2006, 04:17 AM
If it's normal for the Wildcat, Hellcat, and Corsair to yaw when firing guns, then why don't other aircraft with their guns mounted in the wings exhibit the same behavior?

VF-51-Dart
05-05-2006, 09:52 AM
I have no idea.

Archer_F4U
05-05-2006, 10:58 AM
I'm curious, does anyone know of any accounts from F4U-2 pilots as to the stability (or lack thereof) of the -2 when firing and when cruising? I would guess the radome on the wing makes very little difference while cruising or the planes were always trimmed to counter the additional drag. What happened when they fired their guns (3 left wing, 2 right)? Did they encounter noticeable yaw or not?

Similarly, anyone know of any Beaufighter pilot accounts of yawing when firing four .303s on the left wing and only two on the right?

VF-51-Dart
05-05-2006, 11:51 AM
Well, try as I might I just can't remember/find that clip. I'm wondering if it was in the documentary "The Fighting Lady", which my squad mate loaned me once. That has a whole plethora of color guncam footage taken during the "Marianas Turkey Shoot".

Anyway, I will keep trying to find it. Sorry guys.

jolulure
05-05-2006, 01:41 PM
but tempest does also yaw when shooting... or at least it moves a lot.

VW-IceFire
05-05-2006, 03:21 PM
Originally posted by jolulure:
but tempest does also yaw when shooting... or at least it moves a lot.
Yes....I did test that. The Tempest yaws significantly to the left and right in a complete motion. The difference is that the Corsair (and others) yaw in a single direction (I think to the right) and they sort of drift off that way till you stop firing.

Its really quite minimal in my personal view. The rudder and dampening from use of the rudder is quite severe which I think causes most of the problem on the Corsair. Its been like that since 4.01 came out but its only gotten worse when we throw in yaw inducing .50cals that fire at different rates. Its all connected...not just one issue.