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View Full Version : Discuss: small details, people, blood, flight crews etc.



IL2Canuck
11-03-2004, 09:57 AM
I thought I would try to start a thread about the stuff I love. The small details like in the first IL2 where the canopy inside some of the planes would splash with blood when the crew is hit. In PF we have a few guys on ships manning guns but I wanted a few guys walking the deck etc. I know this is not as important as how the planes handle, and I know the frame rate is always what gets mentioned but still...just for discussion. Anyone else like the "living world" idea in a flight sim? (towns people, troops walking beside armor trucks, stuff like that).

I always thought it would add so much to this great franchise (IMO)

Thanks Guys.

Sturmvogel66
11-03-2004, 11:27 AM
I am a huge supporter of immersion. I have always dreamed of a flight sim where the world around you actually is alive. I love that I can now play on perfect with forest = 3. The trees everywhere just make it look that much mroe real. However, there still isn't enough detail, now I know its hard to do, and I am in no way demanding it. I just wish there wasa way to make it mroe detailed. I have actually though of taking a smaller map and super detailing it myself with stuff to see how it runs. But that would take a long time, and I dont have the time for it now. Anyway, yes, the more detail the better.

Chuck_Older
11-03-2004, 12:41 PM
We would need a collison model for people in that case, wouldn't we?

I would like to see all sorts of things, but the reality is that we aren't going to get all that in the foreseeable future. Mess halls with cooks, guys walking to the latrine, some poor slob peeling potatoes, gaurds at the gate, troops practicing close order drill, brown shoes walking the flight deck...that would be incredible, but also it is a pipe dream. Too bad, but not for years and years

BlastinFooz-619
11-03-2004, 12:45 PM
well with the way technology is advancing i would not put those senarios taking place in the next 5 years. but maybe after that who knows what computers and games will be capable of. i feel that in my life time there will be some huge leaps forward in the world of simulations.

Chuck_Older
11-03-2004, 12:52 PM
That wasn't called for

owlwatcher
11-03-2004, 12:55 PM
From looking at the games that are coming out. I am under the impression that in time different games will plug into one another.
Silent Hunter, PT ??? look the same as PF. These games look almost plugable into PF. Each game detaling it own .
The only game set not seen is warships. Silent hunter is close.
Just my look for those little details.

SeaFireLIV
11-03-2004, 01:25 PM
Immersive things needed.

1. OIL. Ships should leak black oil and even leave it behind.

2. Ship sirens. We get it in briefing why not on the carriers when it is under attack? Also it would be nice if some of the briefing sounds heard while reading the Brief could be put in the Russian and Luftwaffe Campaign, including the detailed Roster.

3. Some running sailors, as in FB when trucks are attacked. They should be seen when a ship is sunk, simply leaving the ship, instead of sitting at the guns until they drown. Kept brief, it will not cause much slowdown and could be made an option in Config.

4. A little more `life` in offline campaigns. At the moment there is a certain `sterilty` , maybe the blue sea emphasises this feeling. For instance, a little extra speech from your carrier. I know there`s a speech that says, `Fighters are still in the area.`Also extra ADDED speech like:

`Our ships are under attack, all fighters return to your carriers` and `Lead Squadron, you are redirected to a new location` altering the waypoint map at the same time.

5. Pilot head slumped as dead/unconscous animation (as in HE111)also needed.

There`s probably more, but this would be enough, I guess.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/Shock.jpg
shock n awe

NIGHTBARON
11-03-2004, 01:38 PM
As long they make the gunners/pilots in every aircraft have death/wounded animation... I will def greateful.

And yes..the blood in the original IL2 is a big plus...

Quint1974
11-03-2004, 03:19 PM
I'd like to see more Blood in the cockpit... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

~Q~

tolwyn.com
11-03-2004, 03:56 PM
I was playing The Sims2 the other day, and was thinking about starting a thread over there about not having any Torpedo Bombers modelled in the game.

Reaves_42
11-03-2004, 05:27 PM
Must admit i am a fan of the extra FX. Things like the window turning black if your engine is smoking, bullet holes and broken glass in the cockpit when it's shot up, etc... That's what made me love il-2 and will keep me buying future il-2 games.

Saburo_0
11-04-2004, 02:31 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
Immersive things needed.

1. OIL. Ships should leak black oil and even leave it behind.

/QUOTE]

Ooh! Yes the other ideas are nice but this one would be great.

Bakelit
11-04-2004, 04:13 AM
That oil thing would be really great.
Was in CFS2 and a user named Nibbio modded it even better.
A few (not too many) rafts after sinking a big ship would be nice too.

Animated pilots on the airfield is included in Rowans "Battle of Britain" so it should be posssible to make some for the carriers.

This would make a great sim even greater.

fabianfred
11-04-2004, 04:35 AM
I see that the bofors guns (artillery) with their crews swivel and track on targets, even whilst on 'hold-fire'....

IL2Canuck
11-09-2004, 10:35 AM
...I like the pilot in the dingy...why not when a ship goes down a bunch of guys in the water?. I dig that kinda stuff.

we still need blood to adjustable, this is war!

CHEERS.

Extreme_One
11-09-2004, 10:48 AM
What about the fact that the trees and bushes actually move as they're blown about in the wind!!!

SeaFireLIV
11-09-2004, 10:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bakelit:
That oil thing would be really great.
Was in CFS2 and a user named Nibbio modded it even better.
A few (not too many) rafts after sinking a big ship would be nice too.
This would make a great sim even greater. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now that`s actually a GOOD alternative to running sailors. As well as the black pool of oil, A few dinghies appearing a litle way from the sinking ship and men in the water would work. All that would be needed are the pilot bailed in water US and Japanese model. Simply reskin so they are US and Japanese sailors...

The black oil idea came from reading the Pearl harbour Pacific war books, but also CFS3 (bleh) had this. It was one of the few touches that REALLY impressed me, watching a battleship sinking with black oil spreading about it.

SeaFireLIV
11-09-2004, 10:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Extreme_One:
What about the fact that the trees and bushes actually move as they're blown about in the wind!!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, that`s really nice Extreme-One, but for me it seems a little pointless, because you don`t see it unless you`re parked right up to the tree. I would much prefer something a little more visible, say the oil from ships, sailors in water or even flying bird graphics in the distance!

But the tree movement is nice.

walsh2509
11-09-2004, 11:03 AM
On the subjest of Gore , playing as a rear gunner in an open cockpit I was hit my vision was if not blurred then coloured, with the screen being a slight reddish pink through my gunners eyes. Yet when I F2'd outside to have a look at my wounds and the blood! nothing?

Is this what all this gore is , if you hit you your vision is tinted reddish pink?


I can't rmember if it was CFS2 or EAW but when you hit a fighters cockpit the class looked cracked and was splattered with blood, and that was years ago. We now have more powerful machines and massive jump forward in graphics cards yet in some part of PF you would be forgiven if you thought that certain parts of PF was from before EAW and CFS2.

And on the ship sinking part, oil leaks and the rest SHII have all this a game that is at least 2 years old, that's a life time leaps on video cards of then and now! Lock On is a year old and that has secondary explosions and burning building smoke and fire, I can run that on this rig. A year on for Lock On in PF we have no secondary explosion and the fire work from bomb and rocket are near non-existant!

And for those who say PF is a flight sim first and foremost, well so is lock on but we have all of these thing too!

BinaryFalcon
11-09-2004, 11:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> In PF we have a few guys on ships manning guns but I wanted a few guys walking the deck etc. I know this is not as important as how the planes handle, and I know the frame rate is always what gets mentioned but still...just for discussion. Anyone else like the "living world" idea in a flight sim? (towns people, troops walking beside armor trucks, stuff like that).

I always thought it would add so much to this great franchise (IMO) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think stuff like that would be great. The problem is that it's extremely expensive to do it, computationally speaking.

Maybe in 20 years we'll be able to have that as a possibility. Maybe. Until then, it would just eat far too much CPU time to make it work while running all of the critical items as well.

Sub sims might have oil slicks from sinking ships, but a flight sim doesn't. Yes, it'd be a nice touch, but I can see why they skipped on it. It doesn't really do anything for the primary focus of the sim.

Until we can get machines powerful enough to handle everything in minute detail in real time (and someone insane enough to attempt programming it), we'll have to settle for putting the limited resources where they'll do the most good, or see the most use.

In a serious sim, I don't see that happening until sometime after we can perfectly model flight physics for multiple aircraft simultaneously. As that's going to be one of the most critical parts of any flight sim, it will obviously get most of the "excess" CPU cyles when they become available.

I do expect we'll see it someday, but I'd be surprised if it were sooner than 20 years, and not so surprised if it took longer than that.

EDIT: You can't run a direct comparison between LOMAC and IL2/FB/PF either. While there have been continual improvements to IL-2 since the beginning, the basic code of the sim itself is probably close to 6 years old at this point. Possibly only 5. LOMAC is a lot newer than that.

SeaFireLIV
11-09-2004, 11:27 AM
BinaryFalcon, I truly beleive we`ll see all these things FAR sooner than the perfect flight model. Definitely. 5 years at longest in my estimation.

Latico
11-09-2004, 11:43 PM
One thing that I have not seen included in the IL2 series or CFS is the ability to land and refuel/rearm, without respawning.

My first combat flight sim was Janes Fighters Anthology and in that sim we could land at a frienly base, taxi to the hashmaaarks at the end of the runway and rearm/refuel/ upon a complete stop. Also, we could land on a carrier, ususally we were serviced immediately after we came to a stop in the trap.

I would like to see this built into the IL2 sim. rather than doing the respwan. Imagine a fligth returning to it's home carrier after an attack on the enemy. You could taxxxxi to a specific area on the deck, set the chocks and kill the engine. Set for a period of time for service, then crank back up and take off agaqin to go after the enemy again. If your plane has damage, the time required to service might be longer.

this could get interesting in a DF game while your getting refueled and rearmed and the enemy shows up to attack your carrier or base.

It would definitely add to the carrier ops experience, where you might have more than one devision (4 plane flight for the US Navy)needing to land and refuel/rearm. Would solve the respawn problem too.

sapre
11-10-2004, 12:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Latico:
One thing that I have not seen included in the IL2 series or CFS is the ability to land and refuel/rearm, without respawning.

My first combat flight sim was Janes Fighters Anthology and in that sim we could land at a frienly base, taxi to the hashmaaarks at the end of the runway and rearm/refuel/ upon a complete stop. Also, we could land on a carrier, ususally we were serviced immediately after we came to a stop in the trap.

I would like to see this built into the IL2 sim. rather than doing the respwan. Imagine a fligth returning to it's home carrier after an attack on the enemy. You could taxxxxi to a specific area on the deck, set the chocks and kill the engine. Set for a period of time for service, then crank back up and take off agaqin to go after the enemy again. If your plane has damage, the time required to service might be longer.

this could get interesting in a DF game while your getting refueled and rearmed and the enemy shows up to attack your carrier or base.

It would definitely add to the carrier ops experience, where you might have more than one devision (4 plane flight for the US Navy)needing to land and refuel/rearm. Would solve the respawn problem too. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
In real life it have taken alomst an hour or more to refuel or rearm the aircraft so that not a option.

Latico
11-10-2004, 07:03 PM
I know that it took longer than a few minutes to rearm/refuel a plane, but at least being able to have some simulation of the operation could lend a little something to the game.

Although I don't think it would take a good crew an hour to refuel and rearm a plane. Well.........reloading the wing guns might take a spell.

IL2Canuck
11-25-2004, 09:49 AM
If they had animations showing that they would have to have it "time adjustable" so you don't wait so long, (time compression?) or whatever it's called.

Would be cool.

Tallyho1961
11-25-2004, 11:04 AM
How about flags snapping smartly in the breeze? Especially on the carriers.

Tater-SW-
11-25-2004, 11:19 AM
How about the USN DDs (CA, too?), and the US flag object on a pole get a 48 star ww2 version, not a 50 star modern version first http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

tater

NorrisMcWhirter
11-25-2004, 11:33 AM
Hi,

Some things I'd like to see, some of which wouldn't take too much effort:

Hits to the aircraft sometimes filling the cockpit with smoke or fragments of material flying around in the pit when you are hit.

As above, but with fire; seeing flames engulfing you in the pit would certainly be an incentive to get out a little more quickly rather than spending an extra few mins chasing a plane down with no loss of vis.

Better communication commands for AI and more detail when AI instructing, such as flight numbers being referenced (instead of 'heading 120, alt 5' - who for when multiple flights?)

'Real time' intelligence such as reports from ground units that are under attack, observers (vehicles or ships) & even radar sites giving map references, # of attackers etc. Imagine flying a boring patrol then having your HQ radio that "confirmation of 7+ bandits observed coming in low in sector charlie - divert and intercept immediately"

Ability to place 'observers' in FMB which may trigger information relay or aircraft spawns if stealth not exercised (as above).



Otherwise, the immersion is already excellent but these would add an extra dimension.

Cheers,
Norris

SeaFireLIV
11-25-2004, 11:42 AM
That`s a good list of immersive ideas, NorrisMcWhirter. I have to agree with all of them.

IL2Canuck
11-25-2004, 11:43 AM
Some great idea's there NorrisMcWirter. I love the radio idea. There could be very realistic missions where you just following there cue's. That would be fun.

CHEERS.

Mjollnir111675
11-25-2004, 11:43 AM
I would like to see more fleet/sub tenders so i could jump a rearm/fuel process.
some random submarines under diesel popping up every now and then to break up the monotony of the long flights.
The arrestor cable being dragged across the deck and not the rubber band bounce back as it has
Some ground support requests from marines below
evasive fleet maneuvering (been said)
stronger ship modeling. This could be a whole other sim but the ships hull integrity and compartments to modeled on a somewhat basic level.

Phil_C
11-25-2004, 12:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Maybe in 20 years we'll be able to have that as a possibility. Maybe. Until then, it would just eat far too much CPU time to make it work while running all of the critical items as well. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Seems we forgot that back in the early 90s this program called Janes USNF and Marine Fighters, Fighters Anthology etc....

All these programs had troops in it, although they were simple flat plain graphics, they were still there and they still walked. and those games all ran on a p90.


Id like to see the ships more realistically modeled, oil etc as has been said and the rest of the suggestions of adding the small detail to make it feel more like real life.

IL2Canuck
11-25-2004, 12:45 PM
...I hear that a lot about the older "Jane" flight sims. It sounds like they had a lot of those little cool things that help in the immersion. Too bad they don't re-due or update it.

That would be cool.

SeaFireLIV
11-25-2004, 02:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Phil_C:


Id like to see the ships more realistically modeled, oil etc as has been said and the rest of the suggestions of adding the small detail to make it feel more like real life. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I did mention Oil from sinking ships, but I haven`t got 3.01 yet and don`t want to say anything until I see for myself whether some of these things have been added or not. I won`t be able to see until Sunday night http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif